MartinDorr

What you are experiencing with the Vol pedal placement impacting tone differences in your signal path does not make sense to me, but it is what it is ;-(. I would use Channel Volume only to keep the output of your amp model at a healty signal level (my take on that is <= -12dBFS for peaks). Use Delay and Reverb (or any other post amp effect) settings that do not change volume. Use HD Master to adjust to room/venue

Particle Verb is on the list. I have not tried it, but supposedly you can configure the Reverb Type (Particle Verb = 12), Reverb Bypass/Enable, Reverb Decay, Reverb Pre Delay, and Reverb Tone for everyone of your 4 program slots on channel A and B. Given that the default Spring Reverb works incombination with the HD output via L6 Link, I'd assume the DT programmed Reverb switches with the selected program slot (sected via the Type switch on the DT or via the HD Edit from the HD).

Master Volume on DT to 3 o'clock Channel Volume on DT to counteract higher Drive settings and natural amplification differences of different DT Amp configurations For example, American Clean with a low Drive could take 100% Channel Volume if you can stand what comes out of the speaker. Lower as needed for venue. Don't turn the guitar volume pot all the way down to keep Channel volume up. You want the highest level signal you can get from your guitar for single note playing and do the rest of the volume adjustment with the Channel volume as a start. Having said that, you can try every variation of Guitar pot, Drive, Channel Volume, and Master. if you like it it's good ;-)

Setting input 2 to 'Same' just sends the input 1 signal on path B and if path A and B are combined at some point within the HD modelling chains you get a 6dB hotter signal thereafter. Besides that there may be a very good reason to use a hotter input signal there seems to e a phase shifting effect (notch filter) when the path A and B signal paths are combined, especially when there is a fair amount of DSP processing before they get combined (the DSP can do process signals only sequentially), and some claim to hear this effect (I have not noticed it, but there is a lot of eveidence from others that it exists). From my point of view this 'effect' can be easily avoided and in fact improved upon by simply using only one path (A or B) and raising the signal level in the first effect as high or low as needed or wanted. Now what is an optimal level? I fiddled around and measured quite a long time and came to the conclusion that all preamps and most effect models start to compress and distort if the peak signal level (inpt or output) significantly exceeds -12dBFS. You may not hear much (although you can measure and see in a DAW or annalyzer) up to -9dBFS, but once you get into -6dBFS range it becomes usually real obvious. So unless you want that model compression/distortion side effect, stay away from peaks that exceed -12dB (or -9dB if you like to live just over the edge ;-). For example, my JTV69, Spank 4 model gets into the HD500 at -21dBFS peak playing single notes (measured via USB with no effects/amps, input 2 off, mixer center). My first effect is a Mid Focus EQ (by default at neutral tone setting) with a 9dB gain setting (I think you get that with 33%, but I may not remember right). No need to use the Mid Focus EQ; you can use any effect that has output gain adjustments. This approach is much better than using ' Same' on input 2 because first of all you don't get th the 'fizz' and second you can raise (or lower) the level to what you need for your guitar and not just some arbitrary 6dB that's not right on (my Lester 1 model tone arrives at -12dB in the HD and does not need any level adjustment to be nice and optimally high). Unless you have reason to divert, I' d recommend to try run the complete model chain in the HD at signal levels that do not exceed -12dB peak while maintaining a constant RMS level matched to the RMS signal level of your cleanest tone patch. Set the DT's Master at 3 o'clock for a healthy tube effect. Adjust the volume with the HD Master. Martin

I did a few DT25 power amp only measurements at loud room volume levels and found that for my DT25 I get the smallest delta between peak and RMS levels at 3 o'clock DT Master setting with clean tones. It get's a little louder when you go 5 o'clock, but the difference between peak and RMS levels got a bit larger. As far as I understand the relationship between peak and RMS levels while changing amplification gain, a shrinking delta indicates that the amplifier adds more harmonic distortion if the difference gets smaller. This may be wrong, but for my primary use (home) a 3 o'clock seetiing seems to get me the most 'tube' effect from my DT25. Have not done extensive testing to say this applieas to all power amp configurations. Also, not clear whether this is impacted by my DT's tubes or other individual DT characteristics. Martin

I think no, but you do have 512 slots, i.e. giving up a few for such defaults is no big deal, I think ;-)

New tubes would be my most likely guess. I had the same problem 9 months ago. If you go to standby and listen carefully you will hear a faint click in about 30-60 seconds like an internal relay is switching. Thereafter you should be able to flip the power switch w/o any noise coming from the speaker.

K, let's start with this little summary I put together for the DT behavior DT25 Power Amp Parameters.pdf

Can't say I have real experience with that problem, but if in the same shoe I would try the following: * DT Master at 3 o'clock (don't change it as it won't get much louder even when you go to 5 o'clock and I feel the tube effect actually diminishes) * HD Master at about 10-11o'clock for quiet/medium home/practice and all the way up if you need the volume. * You will need to adjust EQ for large volume differences (I think best approach today is a graphic EQ pedal in DT effects loop; also a good idea to adjust for everpresent venue differences). If you get extra distortion from cranking HD master you probably have an HD internal signal level that's too high; cut back on amp channel volume and effect gains. My practical approach to DT tones and volume balancing is to put the mixer at the very end and only use it to addjust for DT power amp differences by dialing the amp path gain down for higher volume configurations so that the tones match the lowest volume power amp config. If you are interrested in diving deeper into this topic let me know and I'll post what I do in detail. Good luck, Martin

I don't get what you are trying to say with "it does ensure that there is built in obsolescence. ..." The existing models that are available with current FW updates cover a large ground of player needs. Having the option to buy model packs are just like extra "sides" in a restaurant. You can order them or not and still get a filling and pretty rounded meal w/o them. Personally I think it is amazing that L6 will make them available on every HD modeller they ever sold (possibly with the exception of the preamp and reverb modellers in the DT).

Glad it worked for you. Before you get too enthusiastic, i heard others had a lot more trouble with the other 3 amps to make them match.

You should be able to keep path A and B hard left and right in the mixer and mute one of them to check out each amp by itself. If you move them to center and mix both you'll get an additional 6dB signal strength assuming they both have same volume. That extra volume may push the HD output path (after the mixer) into soft compression/distortion which is not coming from the amp models but from the HD's attempt to avoid clipping on this path. You should be able to dial the gain of both channel A and B down by say 6dB and check whether the extra distortion goes away on the combined signal. If that's not it I have no clue what would cause distortion if you combine the amps. Good luck, Martin

Unless I am totally mistaken, I believe to remeber that the Mic models in the DT only affect the direct out on the back and not what comes out of the DT driven speaker(s). There may be a twist to the Mic models also when a preamp instead of a power amp model is selected in the HD, but I just can't remeber and can't check. Martin

Glad if it helps. It's not that relevant in practice, but it helps to understand what's going on in the DT (and that there are little secrets ;-)

I tried this once with the American clean and used the following procedure: Dial in your DT tone on channel B. Use an empty tone on HD, replicate all of your tone stack parameters, set master to 100%, set input 2 to something you do not drive a signal on (avoid mic), set Mixer of path A to center, 0 gain, mute path B in mixer, turn default Cab simulation on. Turn Channel Volume up/down untill yo match level of DT channel B you can easily switch back and forth. I forgot whether BF double or Lux, Norm or Vib is in the DT25 for the American clean; sorry. I think I came pretty close, but not 100%, I'd say. Good luck (and let us know how your matching turns out), Martin

There is a bit more than radatats explained to the tone you will get from the DT power amp alone. In some cases your preamp selection on path A changes the volume of the power amp output (even for same type/class/tube configurations). Also, The Presence dial matters when above 50% for all but 1 or 2 DT power amp configurations. See my PDF for details Martin DT25 Power Amp Parameters.pdf

One could interpret the 'at least HD' comment earlier as meaning that Line 6 is working on some Super HD Pod successor and the new models are already made to support it while stilling the hunger of current Pod HD users as model packs. I could see the FireHamk concept in an expanded form for 'Pro' users coming later this year. I truly like whatt they put out for the show and especially their on-going support of the existing Pod customer base - a very appreciated surprise!

It's just a low-cost variax made by Yamaha to go with the Amplify product line ... But I hope a little it's not (just that)

You should be able to check for Hurghanico's idea of the problem source by first dialing in your tone with the HD and then changing the feedback type on the DT. If the problem is in the HD model changing the DT power amp config will not fix it. On the other hand, if changing the DT type will fix it, I'ld be suspicious of the power tubes next. They may fail in different severity for different feedback configurations. Martin

I have not thought about different dual poweramps, but think that this would not work because the HD sends only one power amp topology/class/tube selection to the DT(s). What you'd get is stereo using a single DT poweramp selection in both DTs (at least as long as you rely on L6 Link for connection and control through a single HD). There may be some way around this, but I don't see how right now unless yo set it all manually. While not totally fexible, you can use dual preamps in the HD, but you only get one power amp config to pick in the DT(s) even if you have 2, I think. ;-( Martin

My approach to leveling tones for use with DT is to put the mixer at the end of the effects chain and adjust mixer gain down to compensate for different DT power amp configurations. I start out with leveled tones as heard (or measurable) via HD USB output using 0dB mixer gain keeping peaks to roughly less than -12dBFS and measuring 'leveling' using RMS levels and fine tuning by ear. Once I have that base tone I use a table to adjust the mixer to compensate for DT power amp amplification differences due to Type/Class/Tube and preamp selection (the latter and the Presence knob have some amplification impact as I found out through experimentation). I use the Master knob on the HD strictly to adjust to venue. It's a bit cumbersome, but I have good success using this approach w/o getting surprises. If you start a new tone from scratch, decide on the preamp, dial in approximate drive and tone stack settings, dial in the mixer gain (per table), fine tune and compare loudness with an already existing tone. Once you got the base tone right add effects while attempting to not change levels. Try it before you invest in a large effort to change your tone library. Good luck, Martin DT25 Power Amp Parameters.pdf

Be prepared to change a lot to get really happy (but it's worth it). How much you can get done to get by with the tones you already have and need for your gig is the big question only you can answer. When there is any doubt, rely on what you know works (even if the DT will sit idle or not be optimally used for a while). The topology and other DT settings will sound great but also make you redo your tones to get to level sound output. There are a few ways of approaching the problem, but I think that most compromise somewhere, and where that's acceptable will depend on your taste and type of music you play. I had the best experience with moving the mixer to the very end of my effects chain and dial in reduced gain for all the DT power amp configurations that are louder than the lowest volume producing Pentode configuration (I don't use Triode yet). Doing this for your existing tones is probably not a quick effort and you should also make sure you like the outcome before you do the whole set. If you go this route you can use a PDF I posted a while ago as a rough guide to set the mixer so your tones are levelled for any DT power amp (Pentode) configuration. This only works simply if your HD tones going to the DT are already level with the mixer set a 0dB gain. My table only corrects for power amplification differences of the various DT configurations. Good luck, Martin DT25 Power Amp Parameters.pdf

It's not hopeless ... you found it ... unless your wife or girl friend pointed it out ;-) I was there for different reasons at least 3 times and just disconnected everything before putting it back together to find it working.

Can't say whether this would fix your 'cha-chick', but I had a lot more switching noise going on before I used power isolation box. You can use the Furman AC-215 and put it in my DT-25 Combo cabinet. I think I paid around $150.- 2 years ago. If you have a UPS for a desk top computer you could try it to see whether it makes a difference. Also, changing to a different power outlet may have had an impact and obviously Master volume could bring the 'cha-chick' to the front. Just grasping straws ... Good luck.

Yes, I thought of trying this as well but there is only so much time. But your feedback raises an interesting question: Have you tried (intentionally or by accident) a sequential dual preamp configuration? What I mean by that is running a preamp in path B on the HD, turning the amp in path A off (which makes the DT switch to channel B) and thus run the output of the HD preamp into the input of the DT preamp.