Paulzx

I think you're safe, I don't think anyone is about to get into religion on here. The only religion I'm interested in is rock & roll!

Are you talking about modellers or real religion lol?

Silly remark, it's not about preferences or some platforms claiming to be something they are not, it's just a simple objective comparison between similar pieces of kit. I'm surprised some people take such umbridge to the mere mention of a competitor. The Helix platform is good enough to be able to have an objective discussion when comparing to other devices. It's helpful to know the pluses and minuses of various platforms. It's not a religion when you buy a modeller. You should still be able to discuss.

I actually agree, for me the accuracy of the modelling was never that important, just to be able to plug in and really enjoy what you're hearing is far more important and you can get that with Helix but it usually takes a bit of tweaking. I will say that Quad Cortex and Fractal do sound better out of the box, but Helix is a better overall deal for what you get.

Ironically, that is an area the helix is probably better than the Fractal lol

It's not a load of crap, it's the opinion of many people who have owned both and chosen to move because one sounded better than the other. The Helix does a lot of things better than most competitors, but it isn't the best thing out there when it comes to reproducing amp tones, it's pretty good but it's not the best.

What are you talking about? A lot of those Cork sniffing fools as you call them, used to be here using helix devices, some still do but they are well placed to make the comparison and its one way traffic. Nobody sells fractal gear to go Line 6 do they?

There's a reason why the biggest artists use fractal, its the benchmark for modelling, there's no shame in being honest here. There's no point trying to diminish the reality of it. If all modellers were considered of equal quality those artists wouldn't all be using the same o e would they? Helix is perfectly good at a lot of stuff but it's not the best thing out there.

I've looked at this scenario myself but elected to stay with my Helix due to funds really but also in the meantime I've become better at dialling it in too. Anyway, if you really want the absolute best whatever the cost, it would have to be Fractal to be honest. The A-list artists using their stuff speaks for itself, plus if you go over to the Fractal forum, take a look at how many ex Helix owners there are there, that also tells a story because it doesn't really happen the other way around. Said it many times, Helix is still best bang for buck but the concensus is pretty clear over there with owners of both, which is better sounding, even if it is fairly close

Agreed it is a rabbit it hole when you get deep in to it. However I have had quite good success with my helix and IR's in tone matching some of my favourite players And it's not always by using the digital equivalent in the Helix of the real gear, it quite often comes down to how Well you know your Helix. The only tone I can't nail at the moment accurately is the rockman x100.. even with rockman IR's ironically

He does have an Axe fx III but used sansamp on his last album. He seems to change gear all the time for albums, live may be more consistent gear

Just stock cabs, you don't need more... that made me chuckle. I can virtually guarantee without IR's, that won't sound anything like Satriani's tone when you get the patch into your Helix

If you like Helix Native but you don't like your presets when you play through speakers you need to start by looking at those speakers. Helix does have a tendency to easily make dark boomy tones. You can fix that with some editing in combination with suitable speakers. Are you using FRFR?

Jamie, I've been here mate, same exact issues. I play rock and metal, always searching for great high gain. I've had some good results this year with my Helix floor but I tell you right now, it's a fiddly art full of variables that no one can duplicate for you because your set up, your room, your guitars.. it all changes the results. What I did - changed my speakers for yamaha HS7's, no sub (don't think you need that), adjusted room control bass and treble on the speakers (cut both i think, can't remember right now). Other recommended speakers would be Adams and G66 Elis - I never tried them but people rave about them. Ditched the cab sims altogether, got some nice IR's, trim the high gain to anywhere between 5khz to about 10khz (adjusting this for each preset is vital) Stopped buying custom presets - waste of time. Dial in your own, it's the only way you will get what YOU need. I now adjust the amp settings by very small margins to get just where I want. Typically the bass is only ever around 3-4 and I can can get some pretty thumpy tones with that. I can get close tones to what Ola does - obviously you won't get the exact same thing using FRFR speakers as a real amp, for the reasons discussed, but you can still get a damn close tone. I cannot emphasise how important it is to find the sweet spot on the IR high trim, along with the mid, treble and bass values on the amp block. Presence is also very important to get right because it changes the tone from accurate to disgusting. You may have tried some of this, I know what you're shooting for and you can get close.. with the right variables

A wah type of sound on the preset is quite a specific sound so that doesn't sound right at all. Two things the Helix is really good at if you're not experienced dialling in tones - honky and muddy, the skill is getting somewhere in the middle. Are you using IR's or the Helix cab models?

That is a bit disappointing to hear. I was hoping for that by early next year but oh well. How long does it normally take them to produce an update, they seem to have been fairly regular in the past but I suppose this next one is quite a big one.

I don't think dsp is the main thing people look at when comparing competitor units like the Fractal or kemper, it's mainly just the quality of the amp tones and the quality of the effects. If you're a high gain player like I am and someone comes along with a Marshall amp sim that sounds a lot more satisfying than what you're using, it's very tempting to switch or at least check out and that has been the case with the Fractals. Personally I'm glad I didn't make the switch just because I've recently produced a lot of very satisfying high gain Marshall patches on my helix and I know the user interface so would have to be really tempted at this point to learn a new one. I can see how someone new to the Helix might be discouraged, it takes a lot of learning to craft a really good high gain patch and that's the downside with this unit, however, the results are achievable. I think what I would like to see in an update would be great tones ready to go in the factory presets. The high gain presets are laughable really

Surprising result and good news for the Helix! However, seeing as you're not using it as a stand alone device, that does muddy the waters a bit. I would have liked to have known how it stacked up on its own without the real amp in the equation. Interesting though..

Yep genuinely curious. Everyone to a man I've spoken to who had both devices have said the Fractal wins hands down so I'm not expecting a much different reply! I think you have to accept that when metallica, def leppard, satriani and petrucci etc are all using fractal units, they are the benchmark units. Helix is't that far behind though, and for me at least I don't want to spend the extra money at the moment lol. I don't think you can DM on here. They disabled it didn't they?

That made me chuckle..

Haha I don't know why it's a hard conversation to have. In most cases people who have run the various modellers side by side will always tell you the Fractals and quad cortex do sound better but the Helix wins on practicality which is its big selling point. If you have the funds to sign up for an fm9 I would do it because it's the closest form factor to a Helix. I would be too curious to resist it! Just as well I'm not on the fm9 waiting list, instead I want to see what line 6 can do in the next update because if they can make an improvement in the sound on the Helix I will be more than happy and it's still the best bang for buck unit out there by a country mile. If you get your fm9 make sure to follow up with your impression of it, I would be curious to know how you get on compared to your helix

Can't disagree with the recommendations above, but I would suggest checking out Tone Junkies matched IR's because they seem to be getting stellar reviews on that stuff

I know where you're coming from mate, same here. I've had my Helix for years and I'm happier with it now than I was when I first got it, mainly because it's not the easiest thing to get great tones out of - yes I know some will disagree but as a high gain player, you do have to experiment a bit to get good stuff, it's certainly not out of the box, and the factory presets are shocking, they probably lose more sales due to those things. Having looked at the Fractal stuff in depth over the last year, there's no question it does have the edge in the amp tones, it's easier to get great sounding tones more quickly. Whatever anyone says, you have to be honest about this. There are far too many people who have gone from Helix to fractal to ignore that, not many go the other way, not to mention the major artists who are using fractal. Now having said all that, I chose not to make the move to Fractal because I started getting better results with the Helix, and as has been posted here recently, there was a suggestion that the next update would bring improvements in the tones, so I'm willing to wait for that and see how it works out.

As someone who previously used Alto speakers with the helix, they were the TS210's, they nearly caused me to sell the helix thinking it didn't sound as good as it should. Luckily I just sold the Alto's and kept the helix, got some HS07's and what a difference. The problem with the Alto's was that they were far too dark and boomy, and they squashed the tone. You may be able to EQ that out, but as a solution to just plug straight into, I thought they were a let down for what I was using them for, they are however quite good PA disco type speakers, probably because they have the low end. The HS07's plugged straight in and were a massive improvement straight out of the box - so I would be wary of Alto's unless you've tried them with your gear and had a good result.

So the OP is obviously a bit of a gear head just looking for something a bit newer or newer tech etc, the Helix is what, 7 years old? So it's not a new platform. It's a hard one to answer because the big players at the moment, Helix, Axe III, Kemper, none are new but frequently updated. If you want the best platform with the most options, you would end up with one of those, but if you're looking for a newer platform then it would have to be the Quad Cortex, that's a newer unit, interesting and high quality - but lacking the overall variety of the others. I suppose the real question is, what's more important... a unit that can give you the best results or just something newer that you've not used before? I've had an in depth look at all of these units but I've come back to the Helix, simply because I realised I wasn't getting the full potential out of it and I'm still discovering new ways of getting results - and bang for buck there is nothing better, the fact that it's not new tech is irrelevant, but if I really wanted to lose all of the variety of the Helix for something just newer, I would go for a Quad Cortex and accept it's still waiting on updates and improvements etc.