HD500 repeat effect; echo, delay, modulation?

[StephenSLR]

Hi all.

 

I'd like a repeat effect where I strum a power chord once and this chord is copied and repeated with a very slight decay.

 

I've tried the delay effects on the board and they seem to only repeat the chord once, it's weak sounding and decays so rapidly I can't hear the third, fourth, repeats. The delay effects seem more for soloing.

 

I suspect it could be my settings or perhaps I should be tweaking or adding one of the modulation effects; I took a look at some modulation effects and although they do repeat the chord well, they all sound too swooshy, phased, etc.

 

Can the HD500 do a good clean repeating effect for power chords?

 

s

[PiFromBRC]

^ Yep,

[NucleusX]

Don't forget about the delay trails if your gonna do some foot-switching during it...

 

Delay repeats can get washed out and diminished easily if its before a gain'ed up amp.

They sound the clearest right up the end next to your reverb. If that's what your doing

then all I can think of is setting decay/feeback parameters higher.

 

The out of phase swooshing sound with modulations (especially with stereo FX) that

just doesn't sound right, is sometimes attributed to improper stereo connections or faulty

output cables. If you can get the POD to sound great with other patches that include

stereo FX, then It won't be that.

 

On a side note, I bought a (a few lol) Zoom MS-100BT's which have some pretty

sweet modelled delays and modulations from well established hardware references.

They even modelled some Line6 FX. I don't think the FX selection in the POD is

extensive enough to cover all the FX you might want be creative with, so I had

to extend my options using the Zoom. Between the POD and that, I haven't been

caught out by a spontaneously needed effect yet. All there so far !

 

Goodluck, hope you get your desired result without buying another gadget.

[StephenSLR]

Thanks guys; your comments have helped. I think the HD500 is limited in the delay effects.

 

For what I'm doing I'm finding some of the delays I had ignored are doing the job, though I would prefer it without the L&R speaker swapping on some and not exactly sure what some of the parameters do; ducking, thresh, spread, offset, etc.?

 

I previously favouring Digital but it tends to get out of control when the feedback is high and you leave it repeating a while.

 

I also bought a Joyo D-Seed for when I went on tour last year; much easier to lug and combined with a Metal Zone was a good bare bones option.

 

 

I was just hoping I could get an effect close to this with the HD500.

 

s

[cruisinon2]

Thanks guys; your comments have helped. I think the HD500 is limited in the delay effects.

 

For what I'm doing I'm finding some of the delays I had ignored are doing the job, though I would prefer it without the L&R speaker swapping on some and not exactly sure what some of the parameters do; ducking, thresh, spread, offset, etc.?

 

I previously favouring Digital but it tends to get out of control when the feedback is high and you leave it repeating a while.

 

I also bought a Joyo D-Seed for when I went on tour last year; much easier to lug and combined with a Metal Zone was a good bare bones option.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=it8sxtYvvQQ

 

I was just hoping I could get an effect close to this with the HD500.

 

s

The plain digital delay in the POD should be able to give you as many repeats as you want, almost to the point of silliness. The "feedback" parameter controls the # of repeats, and the "mix" control sets the volume of the repeats relative to the initial note. Between the two you can have either just enough delay to be noticeable, or you can make it sound like a spaceship.

 

Stay away from the ping-pong delay if you don't want to hear the L/R bounce.

[StephenSLR]

the "mix" control sets the volume of the repeats relative to the initial note.

 

Good explanation; I knew it was the ratio of wet/dry effect.

 

 

you can make it sound like a spaceship.

 

It starts to sound "spaceship" before it gets to ring out as far as I want.

 

I'm using the Angel F-ball with no other effects and playing distorted power chord; I think this is the problem, the feedback starts to increase and gets louder.

I'm at 600ms and would like to get 8 repeats out of one strum; I also notice when I switch to the next chord there's too much noise and it's not a clean change.

I'm thinking of assigning feedback to the exp. pedal; it's going to take some fancy footwork to get this right live and I may have to look for a different way to play it; perhaps strumming every 4 or even 2 repeats.

 

I'll try experimenting with the Joyo and see if that's any better.

 

s

[cclement]

If you have the delay in the POD *before* the amp, then things can get muddy quickly- especially if you are using the F-ball with a large amount of gain. This is of course is a particular flavor, and has its advantages (think early U2, Flock of Seagulls, etc).

 

If you put the delay *after* the amp, you might get a result a bit more to your liking.

[StephenSLR]

If you put the delay *after* the amp, you might get a result a bit more to your liking.

 

Yep, it's definitely after the amp on the HD500; last item in the chain; I'm currently testing it on monitors not an actual amp.

 

s

[brue58ski]

Do you want 8 repeats before you strum the next chord or are you strumming your next chord before the 8 repeats are over?

Do you want the repeats to be the same relative volume?

In regard to the joyo, which effect are you referring to? Post the time into the video.

[StephenSLR]

Do you want 8 repeats before you strum the next chord or are you strumming your next chord before the 8 repeats are over?

 

Basically: 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4,  change chord and play it on the next beat to continue with 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 of the next chord with a seamless change in between the two chords

 

 

Do you want the repeats to be the same relative volume?

 

Close; with a slight decay so it doesn't sound like I'm strumming 8 times.

 

 

In regard to the joyo, which effect are you referring to? Post the time into the video.

 

The Joyo comment was in response to NucleusX; just mentioning that I have another effect should I need to experiment further.

 

I've yet to try this song with the Joyo, not sure if it can do it either. I do remember when I first got it that it was giving me a great delay sound with very little tweaking and good features.

 

s

[silverhead]

Try using two instances of the Delay FX in your signal chain and assign them both to the same footswitch. Save the preset with one of the FX On and the other Off. Set the global Trails parameter in the Setup menu to OFF.

Make the settings on the two FX blocks identical so that you have the repeats happening virtually infinitely at the volume you want. Then, as you switch chords, hit the assigned footswitch. The current delay (chord) will stop with no further repeats as the new delay kicks in, providing the desired repeats again for the new chord. This will happen every time you hit the footswitch when changing chords.

You'll just have to remember to change the global parameter when you want your FX trails back again.

EDIT: Disregard the last sentence. The Trails parameter is saved on a preset basis; it's not global.

[StephenSLR]

Try using two instances of the Delay FX in your signal chain and assign them both to the same footswitch. Save the preset with one of the FX On and the other Off. Set the global parameter Trails to OFF.

 

Very interesting; So, to turn the delay fully off I'll also have to assign an identical preset with no delay. I'll definitely give that a go.

 

 

You'll just have to remember to change the global parameter when you want your FX trails back again.

 

Trails is assigned per preset though, right?

 

s

[silverhead]

Yes, you need another identical preset with no delay.

 

Yes, trails are assigned per preset. Thanks for noting this. I've corrected my misinformation in my previous post.

[StephenSLR]

the "mix" control sets the volume of the repeats relative to the initial note.

 

In a way, yes but I find using Digital Delay; with the mix at 100%; you don't hear the note you strike, only the delayed note; so a happy medium to get the same volume from the note I strike and the volume of the repeat note is setting the mix around 65%.

 

I'm having some success towards what I want; I've learnt a lot on how the delay's work thanks to you guys. I did test out assigning two instances to one footswitch and noticed how much turning trails OFF helped.

 

I have to practice my technique too; I may be able to get away with not having to toggle if I palm mute at the right moment but it does sound cleaner toggling. I can get away with the feedback around 90% and hearing a faint 8th repeat but any higher and the volume just goes crazy.

 

s

[pianoguyy]

Yes, trails are assigned per preset. Thanks for noting this. I've corrected my misinformation in my previous post.

 

When did this change? 

Admittedly, I don't go into my system menu often because I set everything and don't change it. But I thought there was a 'global allow trails' settings. 

[StephenSLR]

When did this change?

 

Was always the case; check your Advanced Guide.

 

s

[silverhead]

Yeah I think it always has been like this. I only noticed after checking the Guide after StephenSLR's comment. I always have Trails On and never change it so I assumed it was global. Wrong.

[pianoguyy]

Yeah I think it always has been like this. I only noticed after checking the Guide after StephenSLR's comment. I always have Trails On and never change it so I assumed it was global. Wrong.

Was always the case; check your Advanced Guide.

When did this change? 

Admittedly, I don't go into my system menu often because I set everything and don't change it. But I thought there was a 'global allow trails' settings. 

 

 

Actually, we are both right. There is a global setting for trails. But the global setting is for a different purpose than what we are talking about here. 

[silverhead]

Where is the global setting vs. the per-preset setting? And how are they different?

[pianoguyy]

Where is the global setting vs. the per-preset setting? And how are they different?

Knob 4: When set to “On†allows the echo repeats and/or decay of Delay

and Reverb FX to continue when the Model is toggled off - this affects the

FX Loop block as well...how cool! With the Trails option “Off†the decay is

muted instantly when toggling the Model off. Note that the Trails feature

does not provide a “spillover†of the FX decay when changing Presets. The

Trails setting is saved per Preset. 

 

That is a copy and paste from the OM. page 14 of the Pilot's Handbook. 

System Menu, page 1, knob 4. 

 

 

That is what I was referring to when I asked about the global setting. There is one. It works within a preset, when turning delay on and off -- such as doing a solo. 

BUT, you guys were talking about switching presets. The trails do not continue when going from 01A to 02A. 

[silverhead]

Yes - agreed. But there is no global setting re: switching presets. Or rather, the fixed global setting is No Trails when switching presets. You can't change that so I wouldn't call it a setting. The only changeable setting is per preset, not global. It is in the System Utilities menu area but as the doc says it is not a global setting.

 

And in our discussion we were talking about within a preset - not between presets.

[pianoguyy]

Which is why I said that we were both right. 

I was talking about that one, and you were talking about another one. 

[silverhead]

OK. All clear.

[StephenSLR]

to get the same volume from the note I strike and the volume of the repeat note; is setting the mix around 65%.

 

I did some recording last night and noticed the 1st repeated note is signficantly louder and it was obvious seeing the waveform on the screen I adjusted the recording volume on Cubase to sound a bit more even.

 

This morning I was thinking perhaps the mix setting is too high.  Oddly, it wasn't noticeable when I wasn't recording.

 

 

the fixed global setting is No Trails when switching presets. You can't change that so I wouldn't call it a setting.

 

I tend to agree with that, since you can't change it to ON globally.  I guess if you switched to pedalboard mode it'd always be on every time you hit the effect; how many use the POD in pedalboard mode though?

 

s

[CipherHost]

how many use the POD in pedalboard mode though?

 

:ph34r: I do, but don't tell anyone.  :)

[AlexKenivel]

As far as I've seen, the mix at 50% gives you a 50/50 mix of dry/wet. Any higher and the repeated note(s) will be louder

[StephenSLR]

50/50 mix of dry/wet. Any higher and the repeated note(s) will be louder

 

Exactly what I assumed when I gave it some thought and it makes sense.

 

s