Anyone using DT amp with Helix?

[gtrman100]

well I am a little bummed right now. I used the Helix app to rearrange all the patches into a new setlist last night so I could upload it. I just tested the setlist today at lunch and almost everything is shifted by a couple of slots. I just went through on the Helix and reset all the patches but i noticed the midi assignments were also reversed on some of the FS. I will fix everything tonight and upload the fixed setlist. What a f@ck story...

 

I don't know if it was my computer or the Helix app but I suggest being careful when transferring or copy and pasting patches between sets.  Can't wait for the full desktop app to be finished for doing work like this.  It's fine building a patch on the unit but major set management needs the computer app.

This happened to me too, when I moved some patches around. I stored it on the Helix app, and when I restored it later, some of my patches were in different locations and the Variax custom tunings were on the wrong patch. I had to go through and make sure that everything wasn't changed.  A bit scary, but I'm not sure if it was pilot error or a software bug. I hope the full computer interface arrives soon...

[diggerbarnz]

ahhh - so I'm not on crack then! 

[radatats]

I rebuilt the setlist so hopefully it works better for everyone this time!

 

http://share.myflare.com/hB549Z

[RPascarella]

Hi guys,

  Just got my Helix so I'm a complete noob.  I have 2 DT50s that I'm trying to run it through, so I have a few questions:

 

1) How can I configure the Helix to send stereo signals to the 2 DT50s?  In my HD500, there was a menu for this.  I don't see anything in Helix.  As far as I can tell, the two amps are running in Mono.  Also, to take advantage of the MIDI controls, I imagine I must also route a MIDI cable from Helix to DT50 #1 to DT50 #2 also, correct?

 

2) When I first got the Helix, I connected it to one of my DT50s via L6.  It sounded awful.  I was so discouraged I was ready to return the Helix!  Or sell my DTs and get a FRFR amp.  But I saw this posting which saved the day.  I downloaded radatat's setlist and wow, it sounds so much better.  So after a bit of experimenting, here's what I've found:

  a) my setup sounds best with everything off in the DT50 except the cab.  For example, on my Plexi patch I like the greenback 25s.  On my Essex 30 patch I like the Silverbells.  Some patches sound best with cab off too.

  b) If I turn off everything on the DT and use a full amp or amp+cab, or even amp with separate cab, for some reason it sounds like the sound is going through an AM radio.  I'm perplexed that some of you are getting good sounds with full amp models.  What am I doing wrong?  What is your setup?

 

Thanks a bunch!

Randy

[RPascarella]

Some corrections:

1) I meant to say that my "Amp" setting sounds best.  I don't like the "Preamp" as much, but the "Amp+Cab" sounds horrible, as does "Amp" with a separate "Cab".

 

2) that smiley was supposed to be sub-bullet b  :-).

[talwilkins]

Some corrections:

1) I meant to say that my "Amp" setting sounds best.  I don't like the "Preamp" as much, but the "Amp+Cab" sounds horrible, as does "Amp" with a separate "Cab".

 

2) that smiley was supposed to be sub-bullet b  :-).

 

I prefer to use no cab on the DT because it's an HD cab and I presume the Helix cabs are better.

I use a full amp+cab and it sounds fantastic!

[radatats]

 

1) How can I configure the Helix to send stereo signals to the 2 DT50s?  In my HD500, there was a menu for this.  I don't see anything in Helix.  As far as I can tell, the two amps are running in Mono.  Also, to take advantage of the MIDI controls, I imagine I must also route a MIDI cable from Helix to DT50 #1 to DT50 #2 also, correct?

 

- I don't think you can configure automatic stereo separation with L6 link like you could with the HD500 yet.  I could be wrong.  You may have to use a 1/4 out to each DT FX Return along with your midi cable.  Yes you would need to route to the second DT for it to work properly.

 

2) When I first got the Helix, I connected it to one of my DT50s via L6.  It sounded awful.  I was so discouraged I was ready to return the Helix!  Or sell my DTs and get a FRFR amp.  But I saw this posting which saved the day.  I downloaded radatat's setlist and wow, it sounds so much better.  So after a bit of experimenting, here's what I've found:

  a. my setup sounds best with everything off in the DT50 except the cab.  For example, on my Plexi patch I like the greenback 25s.  On my Essex 30 patch I like the Silverbells.  Some patches sound best with cab off too.

 

- so you like the DT cab models?? 

 

  b. If I turn off everything on the DT and use a full amp or amp+cab, or even amp with separate cab, for some reason it sounds like the sound is going through an AM radio.  I'm perplexed that some of you are getting good sounds with full amp models.  What am I doing wrong?  What is your setup?

 

- with everything off in the DT to my ears it sounds best using the full amp models.  The cabs and IR's take something off but it may just be that they are about 6db quieter than when bypassed.  If I turn the level up it sounds better.

 

- I found once that my DT amp/cab remained ON even when sending the midi signals.  I had no sound because the knobs were all zeroed and that's how I found it.  Anyways I cycled the physical channel switch on the DT A-B-A and everything worked again.  It sounded like crap with the DT stuff on.  It has never sounded like going through an AM radio.

[gjdjservice2012]

I have had great success using the Helix into Hughes & Kettner Grandmeister 36 head, then into Mesa Boogie 1 x 12 Mini Rectifier straight and slant cabinet mini stack, with 16 ohm speakers.   Using a "5 Cable Method".   Guitar in on Helix to 1/4" output to H/K input; 2 cables going into and out of the effects loop of the Helix and H/K; MIDI cable out from Helix into MIDI in on the back of the head.   I create the sound settings I want on the H/K, then select MIDI Channel and CC# for that preset, punch the 'Store' button on the head and then hit the Helix footswitch.   Now I can use the natural distortion from the amp, and run the Helix presets into the effects loop.   (An important element that makes this all work is using an EQ block from the guitar input to the Grandmeister.   I tweak the EQ settings so it sounds just like a guitar plugged straight into the amp head.)   The absolute best guitar amp rig I have ever had!

[ColonelForbin]

You can definitely set the 'Speaker Cab type' to None (MIDI guide page 2.5) but I can't find anything that would suggest that it can be turned off for the XLR Direct Out.

 

It is possible, however, that turning the mic emulation off would have the same effect as turning off the cab.  'Can't make any sound if nothing is there to capture it' is kind of what I'm thinking.

 

I don't know for sure how this exactly works; there are two different parameters in DTedit - one to disable the cabs that are paired with the preamp models in channels A and B - then there is a different setting, in the 'master' section that they call 'mic'; which is the mic model for the XLR output. I have definitely messed with changing this mic model when using it with my pedalboard; it defaults to something like SM57 off axis, but you can choose any of the mics.

 

From what I understand, that cab emulation is always a 1x12, with whichever mic model you have selected. What I can't confirm, is, if there is then no processing done to the XLR out with the mic set to none.

 

[HonestOpinion]

I don't know for sure how this exactly works; there are two different parameters in DTedit - one to disable the cabs that are paired with the preamp models in channels A and B - then there is a different setting, in the 'master' section that they call 'mic'; which is the mic model for the XLR output. I have definitely messed with changing this mic model when using it with my pedalboard; it defaults to something like SM57 off axis, but you can choose any of the mics.

 

From what I understand, that cab emulation is always a 1x12, with whichever mic model you have selected. What I can't confirm, is, if there is then no processing done to the XLR out with the mic set to none.

 

 

I had not seen an editor screen for DT Edit before. Don't get me wrong, it is great to have the Helix editor but I have to say it I vastly prefer this type of editor approach with dropdown menus and switches to the approach they chose for the Helix editor screens where EVERYTHING is done with bars.  It also allows way more  parameters and information on a single screen.

[ColonelForbin]

I had not seen an editor screen for DT Edit before. Don't get me wrong, it is great to have the Helix editor but I have to say it I vastly prefer this type of editor approach with dropdown menus and switches to the approach they chose for the Helix editor screens where EVERYTHING is done with bars. It also allows way more parameters and information on a single screen.

It is and remains a bit of a mystery to me, that Line6 doesn't have an editor for the DT25! That screenshot is free, user created software.

 

For those wondering, here is the link:

http://rome2.github.io/dtedit/

[ColonelForbin]

I was actually messing with some Helix DT25 pairing yesterday. Disabled every thing on DT25, used Line6 link from Helix to DT and DT XLR out back to Helix.

 

Did some regular patches where I just recorded the XLR out.

 

Did some other patches where I used only an amp model no cab, digital out to DT25, XLR back to Helix and run mic input through Ownhammer, 3 Sigma and Redwirez IR.

 

Mixed results; needs more work! Not sure what I am getting from that XLR out of DT; need to compare to fx send.

 

Sounds coming out of DT are stellar! Very LOUD. Messed with turning down send and turning up DT25.

 

Next I want to test with Helix preamp model to DT, and compare XLR out with DT FX send- XLR should be adding DT tubes since it's transformer tapped.

 

Liking the idea I can use Helix in similar way with DT25 as with HD500; just with more options because of Helix routing and IR possibilities limitless!

[ColonelForbin]

Just mostly trying to decide if there is any tangible difference between sending full amp and cab patches to DT with L6link, and treat DT as powered speaker/monitor ; vs building DT specific patches, using amp model only or preamp model only with no cab, send to DT, send back to Helix, and process that through cab model or IR.

 

It's alot of extra work; though I did find that there was a distinct difference between running amp and cab from Helix to DT vs running just amp (didn't test preamp only yet) to DT.

 

Makes me wonder more about what the HD500 output modes were doing, when using with L6Link with DT it would default to that mode.

 

I ran into some routing complexities; induced some feedback loops. And had to switch up routing in Helix to not send PC usb1/2 stream through DT25! Was using SuperiorDrummer with ProTools; it was all playing back through the DT25. Changed USB1/2 to only go to XLR; send those to monitors or pair of L3m.

 

Still need to come up with good way to listen to the DT through IR signal while not hearing DT. Low volume mode seems to work for this; acts like a volume pad and still lets signal through with DT in stand by.

[jazfunk]

What's the latest on using the Helix with the DT series amps, specifically L6 Link?  I've read the suggestions about clearing models/mics/cabs from the DT and will try that once I receive the Helix I just purchased last night.  I currently have the HD500x with the DT50.

[radatats]

When I first started doing this I went way overboard making a big set list with all the amps and midi programming for each one.  Not necessary and actually counterproductive since the DT stays in the last configuration you sent it.  The host service went out of business so that set list is not available anymore.  Its easier to just program the DT one time with DT Edit so you can see what you are doing and then just send normal Helix patches to it with L6 link.

 

Here's what I found.  If you use channel A with Helix and L6 link, you can't change the topology with the switch on the amp.  Channel B works though. So I kept Channel A for using the amp by itself and changed all 4 Channel B voicings to no amp or cab and set the topology to match the position.  So now using the Helix into the DT channel B I can change the amp topology with the switch.  I can also set an instant midi command to the patch to force it to use the voicing I want to line up the right topology for a specific amp model without changing anything in the DT. 

 

If you want full control you can program Channel A's 4 voicings to no amp/cab, Class A, 4 topologies and Channel B's 4 voicings to Class A/B, 4 topologies, and use an instant midi command in your patch to select one of 8 channels in the DT as appropriate for your amp model.  I personally haven't found that necessary to this point as Class A/B seems to work fine for everything so far.

[spikey]

Ive been wanting to jump into a DT25 or 50 using it with Helix, but am hesitant. All this is very interesting and thanks for the hard work making things work together guys. I wonder (Im sure they do but still) if Line 6 actually knows once they perfect the DT series amps (software etc) to work with Helix (for lack of a better word) better , they would then sell the DT amps like they did when 1st released? Just saying...  ;)

[roscoe5]

Ive been wanting to jump into a DT25 or 50 using it with Helix, but am hesitant. All this is very interesting and thanks for the hard work making things work together guys. I wonder (Im sure they do but still) if Line 6 actually knows once they perfect the DT series amps (software etc) to work with Helix (for lack of a better word) better , they would then sell the DT amps like they did when 1st released? Just saying... ;)

I thought they closed out the DT series. DT50 is gone and DT25 is pretty discounted. Line 6 usually releases new stuff when they do this.

 

I thought you had and loved Firehawk 1500? Is the honeymoon over?

[radatats]

I thought they closed out the DT series. DT50 is gone and DT25 is pretty discounted.

 

I believe you are right on the DT50, it seems to be discontinued for sure.  The DT25 however, seems to be still offered so hopefully that stays.  I don't think they will release a new model with built in HX amp models but they have said better if not full integration with Helix is something they hope to offer.  Guess it depends on how many other goodies they plan on pushing for the Helix.  Mean time, my solutions work great and I really don't care if they integrate better at this point. 

 

If you are on the fence about getting one, make sure you understand it may end up a legacy product so you don't get disappointed...

[roscoe5]

I've owned both DT50 and DT25 with POD HD500X. I always felt like they were good amps on their own, but I never could gel with the dream rig. Unfortunately, I sold it all off before Helix was anounced.

 

Feels weird to think about getting a DT again. With mention of DT amps in the Helix manual and the good feedback on the sound on this forum, I have some faith in Line 6 releasing full compatibility.

 

Anyway, lots of good info and good to know it works well. I'll keep an eye out for a smokin deal on a new or used one.

[spikey]

I thought they closed out the DT series. 

I thought you had and loved Firehawk 1500? Is the honeymoon over?

You sure read into a lot just because Id like to try different things with my Helix. At first I wondered what I did to deserve such a silly asinine remark, but then I decided It probably wasn't meant like that.  ;) So In a word NO, the honeymoon isn't over, and the Firehawk 1500  is "the" amp to use with Helix as far as Im concerned. It just sounds KILLER! Im also not so sure that Line 6 dropped support for the DT series (25 anyway) just because they "may" have quit making them, but Line 6 would be the ones to say. Lots of folks are still buying the DT-25 so Id be surprised if that model is going away anytime soon. And last time I checked it was ok in the states to own "2" amps or more without a honeymoon lawsuit...  :lol:

[roscoe5]

You sure read into a lot just because Id like to try different things with my Helix. At first I wondered what I did to deserve such a silly asinine remark, but then I decided It probably wasn't meant like that. ;) So In a word NO, the honeymoon isn't over, and the Firehawk 1500 is "the" amp to use with Helix as far as Im concerned. It just sounds KILLER! Im also not so sure that Line 6 dropped support for the DT series (25 anyway) just because they "may" have quit making them, but Line 6 would be the ones to say. Lots of folks are still buying the DT-25 so Id be surprised if that model is going away anytime soon. And last time I checked it was ok in the states to own "2" amps or more without a honeymoon lawsuit... :lol:

Oh man, sorry. Yeah, no negative intent on that comment. I'm currently on the "keeping my old tube gear" side of the fence and often see you guys enjoying the FRFR gear and find myself in a grass-is-greener state.

 

Dunno why, but I've really hung onto to your positive comments about Firehawk 1500, to the point I've been thinking about one too. Totally read too far into it and thought maybe I missed an issue you had with the FH1500.

 

Agreed that L6 will probably keep support for years, as they have with other gear. Just pointing out that the deep discounts of an aging model are often a sign of a new product coming.

 

Anyway, carry on and rock on. I always dig your reviews and insight.

[spikey]

Heres the thing Im trying to get across to folks. If you just "tried" the Firehawk 1500's L/R monitor in jacks with Helix Im betting you would look no further for a dedicated amp (+backup). The Firehawk 1500 holds it own in stand alone, but using the Helix with it is pure tonal bliss to me. BTW thanks for the kind words too!