Helix Acoustic resources

[Snowskull]

Hi out there, In the process of investing in a Helix - I become rather confused when scanning the web and forums and scrutinizing the PDF-manual: There is very little talk about acoustic amps, expressions, effects and such... Feels like I´m not the target group here...? But still I wan´t my JTV to sound better through the Helix than ANY other connected device or straight in to L1 Bose. Anyone else feel the same hesitation? Why isn´t there a short demo just for Variax and acoustic possibilities when using the Helix? Are Line6 afraid to confuse young multieffectslashers? Thankful for more info concerning acoustic setups that are out of this world, as everything else seems to be in the Line 6 BMW ;)

[PeterHamm]

How about acoustic and electric at the same time. Some of these principles will apply directly to your JTV.

 

https://pietrosquared.wordpress.com/helix-2-voice-guitar/

[DarrellM5]

Check this out from the TGP Helix Clips and Samples thread:

 

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/helix-clips-and-samples-thread.1624399/page-24#post-21077925

[amsdenj]

See these two blog posts: Creating a Helix Acoustic Guitar Patch and Creating an Creating an Acoustic Guitar Impulse Response for Line6 Helix.

[fukuri]

See these two blog posts: Creating a Helix Acoustic Guitar Patch and Creating an Creating an Acoustic Guitar Impulse Response for Line6 Helix.

I've just re-introduced my Variax into my Rig and this is an incredibly useful detailed and well explained resource. My sincere thanks for taking the time to put this down for our benefit. It is very generous and inspiring for me to get some of my 30 plus years of live and recording experience down to help other people out

Have a virtual beer from me (or whatever your virtual tipple of choice is)

[cruisinon2]

Hi out there, In the process of investing in a Helix - I become rather confused when scanning the web and forums and scrutinizing the PDF-manual: There is very little talk about acoustic amps, expressions, effects and such... Feels like I´m not the target group here...?

Everybody else beat me to it, but yes you should be able to get some nice acoustic patches set up with Helix. Just check out the resources noted above. You're right though...you're not the target demographic. Same was true of the POD HD series. It took years for L6 to include an acoustic amp model...only arrived in the model packs released last year. And imho, it's not a very good one. I get better results without it.

[billlorentzen]

Those are great blog posts! I got a nice Eastman acoustic for Christmas that I'd like to incorporate into my rig, but the stock Fishman piezo does not make me at all happy. Has anyone gotten a great sound using an image with Helix that they can post sound samples of?

[phil_m]

Those are great blog posts! I got a nice Eastman acoustic for Christmas that I'd like to incorporate into my rig, but the stock Fishman piezo does not make me at all happy. Has anyone gotten a great sound using an image with Helix that they can post sound samples of?

 

Used this patch with this guitar live yesterday, and it worked great. I think I reduced the reverb mix a little so it wasn't quite so wet sounding, but overall, I love it. Going the IR route has worked better than any other acoustic preamp or DI I've tried.

 

https://soundcloud.com/phil-miller-20/takamine-p1nc-ir-test

[PeterHamm]

...Going the IR route has worked better than any other acoustic preamp or DI I've tried.

 

I can NOT agree with this enough!

[silverhead]

Me too. Huge difference using IRs.

[HonestOpinion]

Used this patch with this guitar live yesterday, and it worked great. I think I reduced the reverb mix a little so it wasn't quite so wet sounding, but overall, I love it. Going the IR route has worked better than any other acoustic preamp or DI I've tried.

 

https://soundcloud.com/phil-miller-20/takamine-p1nc-ir-test

 

Nice playing and a great sounding preset btw!

 

I can NOT agree with this enough!

 

 

Me too. Huge difference using IRs.

 

Which IRs are you guys using specifically and where can we download them? Also, are you using any preamps like the tube pre or just the IR?  What else is in your preset as far as effects, EQ, etc.? Thanks in advance for any info or help you can offer, still trying to perfect my acoustic sound with the Helix.

[silverhead]

See post #4 in this thread and check out the linked blogs. Great and very generous work by amsdenj.

 

The IRs I have used are the Taylor ones in the first post here:

 

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/free-ir-files.1552290/

[PeterHamm]

Nice playing and a great sounding preset btw!

 

 

 

 

Which IRs are you guys using specifically and where can we download them? Also, are you using any preamps like the tube pre or just the IR?  What else is in your preset as far as effects, EQ, etc.? Thanks in advance for any info or help you can offer, still trying to perfect my acoustic sound with the Helix.

The secret sauce is Acoustic IR (I use one of these, https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1XgNa5vH3j1ZkVoTFJLQ241WTg/view)-> vintage tube Pre -> parametric EQ (VERY important. Find the freqs that you need to cut and don't be afraid to cut them big time for your room) -> tube comp.... magic...

[HonestOpinion]

The secret sauce is Acoustic IR (I use one of these, https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1XgNa5vH3j1ZkVoTFJLQ241WTg/view)-> vintage tube Pre -> parametric EQ (VERY important. Find the freqs that you need to cut and don't be afraid to cut them big time for your room) -> tube comp.... magic...

 

Thanks much for the assist! What frequencies did you end up cutting/boosting and what settings did you use for the tube comp?

[Snowskull]

Thank you all for the posts, suggestions and links. Today the day to order a Helix - but then I suddenly saw some discussions that I didn´t understand in other thread: main reason for me to use Helix is to Control the JTV from acoustic to Electric on stage with my feet rather than direct on the JTV. Is this not an option(?) What´s the deal here? Can I switch as above and to other instruments in Variax (even tweaked by Helix programming) without delay - through the Helix? Appreciatively!

[PeterHamm]

Thank you all for the posts, suggestions and links. Today the day to order a Helix - but then I suddenly saw some discussions that I didn´t understand in other thread: main reason for me to use Helix is to Control the JTV from acoustic to Electric on stage with my feet rather than direct on the JTV. Is this not an option(?) What´s the deal here? Can I switch as above and to other instruments in Variax (even tweaked by Helix programming) without delay - through the Helix? Appreciatively!

 

You can do it a number of ways. Here's a sample of me using EXPs (you can use footswitches as well) to layer electric under acoustic. I can just as easily turn one up and one down and switch from acoustic to electric on the same guitar. You can do the same with Variax just as easily.

 

[silverhead]

If you use different Helix presets for your various Variax models you can save/store the model selection with the preset so that whenever you recall the preset the Variax model is automatically selected without having to touch the Variax settings. So you can have separate presets for your acoustic and electric guitar models.

 

However, if you use a single preset as outlined above you can blend the one Variax model defined in the Helix preset with the Variax magnetic pickups. You can't store two Variax models in the preset (e.g an acoustic and an electric model), and you can't switch between two Variax models in the same preset without doing it manually on the Varaiax. So you could blend an acoustic Variax model with the Variax mag pickups but you can't blend a Variax acoustic model with a Variax electric model.

[PeterHamm]

Thanks much for the assist! What frequencies did you end up cutting/boosting and what settings did you use for the tube comp?

Finally got to this, sorry for the delay.

 

On my Crowdster Plus 2 patch, I adjust

 

150hz, 1.4, -3.5

2.2khz  3.6, -4.3

6.9khz,  0.7, +10db (I know, extreme), and my low cut is set to 91hz, high cut is set to off.

[HonestOpinion]

These are the settings in the acoustic IRs:

Low Cut = ?

High Cut = ?

Mix = ?%

Level = ?

 

Where have people been getting the best results?

[d0stenning]

Everybody else beat me to it, but yes you should be able to get some nice acoustic patches set up with Helix. Just check out the resources noted above. You're right though...you're not the target demographic. Same was true of the POD HD series. It took years for L6 to include an acoustic amp model...only arrived in the model packs released last year. And imho, it's not a very good one. I get better results without it.

Yes I waited for this acoustic amp - when all i really wanted was to be able to control 5 EQ points using the big knobs.  

 

I find for both arch top jazz guitar and acoustics in my JTV  that no amp model at all is best for clarity - just some EQ blocks in there, compressor and reverb. Maybe a speaker  model for arch top- but i got interesting results without that too. 

[amsdenj]

I used the acoustic guitar patch described in this blog post  Creating a Helix Acoustic Guitar Patch for the first time at a gig last night. I used it with my very old Gibson J50 with an under the saddle pickup. It sounded great. The patch was designed for my Martin 00C15AE, but its in for repair.

 

I had a bit of feedback issues when using the Drive switch for leads. But not enough to get the sound hole cover out. I was probably a bit too close to the PA speaker. The sound was natural, warm and carried well.

 

I would still like to see Line 6 add an acoustic preamp model with tone controls voiced for acoustic instruments, perhaps optimized for acoustic guitar. It would be great if Line 6 could provide some acoustic body images out of the box too. The would really increase the value of Helix, especially when used with a Variax. 

 

I would also like to see Line 6 provide a direct out for Variax piezo pickups so we can make better use of IRs with body images. This makes the Variax more flexible and could breath new life into the older variax acoustic 700.

[HonestOpinion]

I used the acoustic guitar patch described in this blog post  Creating a Helix Acoustic Guitar Patch for the first time at a gig last night. I used it with my very old Gibson J50 with an under the saddle pickup. It sounded great. The patch was designed for my Martin 00C15AE, but its in for repair.

 

I had a bit of feedback issues when using the Drive switch for leads. But not enough to get the sound hole cover out. I was probably a bit too close to the PA speaker. The sound was natural, warm and carried well.

 

I would still like to see Line 6 add an acoustic preamp model with tone controls voiced for acoustic instruments, perhaps optimized for acoustic guitar. It would be great if Line 6 could provide some acoustic body images out of the box too. The would really increase the value of Helix, especially when used with a Variax. 

 

I would also like to see Line 6 provide a direct out for Variax piezo pickups so we can make better use of IRs with body images. This makes the Variax more flexible and could breath new life into the older variax acoustic 700.

 

I consider you to be one of the best resources on using acoustic IRs amsdenj. Maybe you could provide a little guidance here.

 

These are the settings in the acoustic IRs:

Low Cut = ?

High Cut = ?

Mix = ?%

Level = ?

 

Where have you been getting the best results? 

[amsdenj]

Its really impossible to give recommended values, there's just too many variables. All I can do is recommend how to determine the values for your situation.

 

First, let's list the variables:

• Your actual acoustic guitar, its woods, body style, strings, everything that makes it sound they way its sounds
• How you play the guitar - the picks you use, where you strum, how you strum, angle of pick attack, palm muting style, etc.
• Your pickup. The body images I captured were from my Fishman Aura Spectrum. These body images were taken from guitars with Fishman under the saddle piezo pickups. The approach is to essentially subtract the IR of the pickup from the IR for the body so that when you play the pickup sound through the IR you get the body tone. If your pickup isn't a Fishman or is not an under the saddle piezo, the body images might work, but they might not sound that good.
• Obviously the other Helix preamp, EQ, and effect blocks you use.
• The FRFR you go through
• The room you're playing in, size, reflections, acoustic damping, number of people, noise level, etc.

All these things have a significant impact on tone and how your music is communicated to your audience and reflected back to you - which in turn impacts how you play. Its an extremely complex feedback loop, and one of the reasons its so fun to plan. (As an aside, I notice a similar effect when mountain biking at relatively high speeds on trails - the amount of information you have to process to stay upright and maintain speed is incredible, and our bodies seem to just love to process all that information in real time.)

 

With that background, we can take a look at each IR parameter. Note that other blocks, like preamps and EQ can have similar controls.

 

Low Cut: The lowest note on an acoustic guitar is about 88 Hz. But your hand banging on the guitar body can generate a lot of high amplitude low frequency pulses, including a lot you can't hear. Unless there's some special effect you're looking for (i.e., a bass drum), you probably want to cut these out with the Low Cut (often called a high-pass filter). Setting this to 80 Hz is a good starting point and will work well in most situations. But if you're playing with a bass player too (especially acoustic or upright bass), that low E string can start to conflict with the bass and result in a boomy or muddy mix that doesn't cut through well and becomes indistinct. Start cutting a little higher in this case, maybe getting up to 100 to 120 Hz. 160 Hz is the first octave. That would be cutting pretty high and would probably only be useful for unusual situations where you want a pretty thin tone.

 

High Cut: For acoustic guitar through a body IR, probably never use it. If the image is overly bright, you might set the High Cut (often called a low-pass filter) to 12 kHz or so, an acoustic guitar don't produce too much above that. You can use high cut to reduce noise created by moving your hands on the strings. But generally you want to preserve as much of the high end sparkle of the acoustic guitar as possible. You may need to cut this more if you set the mix less than 100% with under the saddle piezo pickups since these can be pretty bright.

 

Mix: Ideally what you would try to do is to EQ the piezo pickup to sound as good as you can get it, then blend the IR in with that to provide more of the body tone using parallel paths. It all depends on how good your pickup sounds and how much you like the chosen body image. Adding a bit of the piezo can provide better pick attack and a more dynamic tone. Compression can contribute a lot here too. Body images can have a number of pretty significant frequency peaks and dips, that's what makes a guitar sound the way it does, and how they are all unique. When amplified, this may be a good thing or bad thing depending on where you are standing and how close you are to the amp. These peaks can cause additional feedback problems, and dialing back the mix might help reduce feedback. If you are having feedback problems, the first thing to do is reverse the phase. That will often solve the problem until you move to a different position.

 

Level: this has no impact on tone and is only used to set levels between patches so that when you switch patch, the level is not too low or too high.

 

Hope that helps.

[HonestOpinion]

Its really impossible to give recommended values, there's just too many variables. All I can do is recommend how to determine the values for your situation.

 

First, let's list the variables:

• Your actual acoustic guitar, its woods, body style, strings, everything that makes it sound they way its sounds
• How you play the guitar - the picks you use, where you strum, how you strum, angle of pick attack, palm muting style, etc.
• Your pickup. The body images I captured were from my Fishman Aura Spectrum. These body images were taken from guitars with Fishman under the saddle piezo pickups. The approach is to essentially subtract the IR of the pickup from the IR for the body so that when you play the pickup sound through the IR you get the body tone. If your pickup isn't a Fishman or is not an under the saddle piezo, the body images might work, but they might not sound that good.
• Obviously the other Helix preamp, EQ, and effect blocks you use.
• The FRFR you go through
• The room you're playing in, size, reflections, acoustic damping, number of people, noise level, etc.

All these things have a significant impact on tone and how your music is communicated to your audience and reflected back to you - which in turn impacts how you play. Its an extremely complex feedback loop, and one of the reasons its so fun to plan. (As an aside, I notice a similar effect when mountain biking at relatively high speeds on trails - the amount of information you have to process to stay upright and maintain speed is incredible, and our bodies seem to just love to process all that information in real time.)

 

With that background, we can take a look at each IR parameter. Note that other blocks, like preamps and EQ can have similar controls.

 

Low Cut: The lowest note on an acoustic guitar is about 88 Hz. But your hand banging on the guitar body can generate a lot of high amplitude low frequency pulses, including a lot you can't hear. Unless there's some special effect you're looking for (i.e., a bass drum), you probably want to cut these out with the Low Cut (often called a high-pass filter). Setting this to 80 Hz is a good starting point and will work well in most situations. But if you're playing with a bass player too (especially acoustic or upright bass), that low E string can start to conflict with the bass and result in a boomy or muddy mix that doesn't cut through well and becomes indistinct. Start cutting a little higher in this case, maybe getting up to 100 to 120 Hz. 160 Hz is the first octave. That would be cutting pretty high and would probably only be useful for unusual situations where you want a pretty thin tone.

 

High Cut: For acoustic guitar through a body IR, probably never use it. If the image is overly bright, you might set the High Cut (often called a low-pass filter) to 12 kHz or so, an acoustic guitar don't produce too much above that. You can use high cut to reduce noise created by moving your hands on the strings. But generally you want to preserve as much of the high end sparkle of the acoustic guitar as possible. You may need to cut this more if you set the mix less than 100% with under the saddle piezo pickups since these can be pretty bright.

 

Mix: Ideally what you would try to do is to EQ the piezo pickup to sound as good as you can get it, then blend the IR in with that to provide more of the body tone using parallel paths. It all depends on how good your pickup sounds and how much you like the chosen body image. Adding a bit of the piezo can provide better pick attack and a more dynamic tone. Compression can contribute a lot here too. Body images can have a number of pretty significant frequency peaks and dips, that's what makes a guitar sound the way it does, and how they are all unique. When amplified, this may be a good thing or bad thing depending on where you are standing and how close you are to the amp. These peaks can cause additional feedback problems, and dialing back the mix might help reduce feedback. If you are having feedback problems, the first thing to do is reverse the phase. That will often solve the problem until you move to a different position.

 

Level: this has no impact on tone and is only used to set levels between patches so that when you switch patch, the level is not too low or too high.

 

Hope that helps.

 

+1 Thanks very much! Great answer!