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Helix and the DT50


schrismer
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Does anyone know if they are planning on making these two products work together like the original "dream rig"? I read that their has been some issues? 

 

I haven't tried it my self.... Thought I'd check with you all before dragging the DT50 out of Storage!

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Does anyone know if they are planning on making these two products work together like the original "dream rig"? I read that their has been some issues? 

 

I haven't tried it my self.... Thought I'd check with you all before dragging the DT50 out of Storage!

Helix is compatible with the DT50, but at the moment it doesn't change the topology of the tubes like the Pod HD500x. 

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  • 2 months later...

I know it's a really popular request.  Several of us are having great success using L6 Link and a MIDI cable. 

I just started playing with this. I just picked up a DT50 head brand new from Guitar Center for $500 ($537 out the door) and have been playing with it in 4 cable method and playing with midi control. I need to pick up a L6 cabe to mess with it that way as well as I don't have one yet to see how that will work.

 

so far I am impressed.

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  • 2 months later...

I just started playing with this. I just picked up a DT50 head brand new from Guitar Center for $500 ($537 out the door) and have been playing with it in 4 cable method and playing with midi control. I need to pick up a L6 cabe to mess with it that way as well as I don't have one yet to see how that will work.

 

so far I am impressed.

 

Hey, checking in on how you are liking the DT50 and Helix.  I found a good deal on one.

 

One thing that puts me off a bit is the Helix manual, as well as this forum, recommendations to use only preamp models with the DT amps.  

 

TIP: With an L6 LINK connection to a DT-Series amp, often the Helix Preamp models are a better choice than Amp or Amp+Cab models. Manually configure the analog power amp options on the DT amp for more sonic possibilities!

 

Have you found a good way to incorporate a Helix amp/cab (or IR) into a split signal for XLR PA/FOH?  The only way I can think to do it is putting the equivalent amp model of the preamp model on the split path and manually matching the settings...sounds like a pain.  I would just assume put a mic on the cab and be done with it, which is sort of missing out on Helix capabilities.

 

Is there a way to turn off the Cabinet Simulation on the DT50 XLR out and run it back into Helix?  

 

Cabinet Simulated Direct Out – Provides a transformer-tapped
direct output with cabinet simulation for studio recording or live
performance without mic’ing your amplifier. The ground lift switch can
be used to eliminate hum or buzz. 
 
Is the cabinet simulation from the DT50 or passed through from POD HD500 / Helix now?
 
I'm currently using Helix 1/4" left out into a Line 6 Spider Valve MKII 1/4" power amp in with V30 speakers, which actually allows me to use full amp models.  Now the L6 SV is pretty neutral, especially for a tube amp, but there is some coloration from the V30 speakers which I am actually okay with.  I have IR'd the L6 SV and V30 speakers to go to a split signal to the XLR PA/FOH, giving me a very similar sound to the stage.  This also gives me my same sound for casino shows that do not allow amps.
 
I would likely similarly IR the DT50 and Celestion/Line 6 12" custom speaker with each of the DT50 topologies.  But in my experience, Helix preamp models do not sound quite as good / expected as the amp models do these amp-influenced cab IR's.  
 
If I could get the post DT amp section signal with no DT cabinet simulation back into Helix from that DT XLR out, I think I could work with it.
 
EDIT: While I couldn't find it in the DT50 manual, I did find it in the DT MIDI Implementation guide.  You can turn off DT amps and cabs (which I think DT-Helix users were already doing) and turn off the the mic off on the DT XLR out via MIDI CC 82 = 0 (which I didn't really see on this Helix forum).  
 
Theoretically it seems you could bring DT XLR out (with all amps, cabs, and mics off) back into Helix and run it through a Helix Cab or IR block and out of the Helix XLR's to PA/FOH.  IR's of the DT50 1x12 and all its topologies should give a similar PA / FOH sound as the DT50 stage sound with the DT cleared XLR out through them.
 
So I suppose with a total of 3 cables (2x XLR & 1 MIDI) you can have total control over DT50 and get a similar sound to Helix XLR out to the PA.
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Hey, checking in on how you are liking the DT50 and Helix. I found a good deal on one.

 

One thing that puts me off a bit is the Helix manual, as well as this forum, recommendations to use only preamp models with the DT amps.

 

TIP: With an L6 LINK connection to a DT-Series amp, often the Helix Preamp models are a better choice than Amp or Amp+Cab models. Manually configure the analog power amp options on the DT amp for more sonic possibilities!

 

Have you found a good way to incorporate a Helix amp/cab (or IR) into a split signal for XLR PA/FOH? The only way I can think to do it is putting the equivalent amp model of the preamp model on the split path and manually matching the settings...sounds like a pain. I would just assume put a mic on the cab and be done with it, which is sort of missing out on Helix capabilities.

 

Is there a way to turn off the Cabinet Simulation on the DT50 XLR out and run it back into Helix?

 

Cabinet Simulated Direct Out – Provides a transformer-tapped

direct output with cabinet simulation for studio recording or live

performance without mic’ing your amplifier. The ground lift switch can

be used to eliminate hum or buzz.

 

Is the cabinet simulation from the DT50 or passed through from POD HD500 / Helix now?

 

I'm currently using Helix 1/4" left out into a Line 6 Spider Valve MKII 1/4" power amp in with V30 speakers, which actually allows me to use full amp models. Now the L6 SV is pretty neutral, especially for a tube amp, but there is some coloration from the V30 speakers which I am actually okay with. I have IR'd the L6 SV and V30 speakers to go to a split signal to the XLR PA/FOH, giving me a very similar sound to the stage. This also gives me my same sound for casino shows that do not allow amps.

 

I would likely similarly IR the DT50 and Celestion/Line 6 12" custom speaker with each of the DT50 topologies. But in my experience, Helix preamp models do not sound quite as good / expected as the amp models do these amp-influenced cab IR's.

 

If I could get the post DT amp section signal with no DT cabinet simulation back into Helix from that DT XLR out, I think I could work with it.

 

EDIT: While I couldn't find it in the DT50 manual, I did find it in the DT MIDI Implementation guide. You can turn off DT amps and cabs (which I think DT-Helix users were already doing) and turn off the the mic off on the DT XLR out via MIDI CC 82 = 0 (which I didn't really see on this Helix forum).

 

Theoretically it seems you could bring DT XLR out (with all amps, cabs, and mics off) back into Helix and run it through a Helix Cab or IR block and out of the Helix XLR's to PA/FOH. IR's of the DT50 1x12 and all its topologies should give a similar PA / FOH sound as the DT50 stage sound with the DT cleared XLR out through them.

 

So I suppose with a total of 3 cables (2x XLR & 1 MIDI) you can have total control over DT50 and get a similar sound to Helix XLR out to the PA.

Roscoe, this is actually how I have my DT25 setup. I setup path 1 on my Helix as instrument input, whatever amp (full amp version also) and effects I want to use and then have my output set to digital for L6 link.

 

With the DT edit program I've disabled all cab and mic sims so I then feed he cab out from my DT back into the XLR on the Helix. On path 2 of my preset I set my input to mic, setup a couple of can IRs (loving the combination of 3 Sigma audio and HX cabs) and then feed that back to my XLR output. I then have an Alto TS110A hooked up so can dial in my cabs more accurately. So far this setup has been working great for me, a solid signal to FOH and a great stage tone for me to play off of.

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Hey, checking in on how you are liking the DT50 and Helix. I found a good deal on one.

 

One thing that puts me off a bit is the Helix manual, as well as this forum, recommendations to use only preamp models with the DT amps.

 

TIP: With an L6 LINK connection to a DT-Series amp, often the Helix Preamp models are a better choice than Amp or Amp+Cab models. Manually configure the analog power amp options on the DT amp for more sonic possibilities!

 

Have you found a good way to incorporate a Helix amp/cab (or IR) into a split signal for XLR PA/FOH? The only way I can think to do it is putting the equivalent amp model of the preamp model on the split path and manually matching the settings...sounds like a pain. I would just assume put a mic on the cab and be done with it, which is sort of missing out on Helix capabilities.

 

Is there a way to turn off the Cabinet Simulation on the DT50 XLR out and run it back into Helix?

 

Cabinet Simulated Direct Out – Provides a transformer-tapped

direct output with cabinet simulation for studio recording or live

performance without mic’ing your amplifier. The ground lift switch can

be used to eliminate hum or buzz.

 

Is the cabinet simulation from the DT50 or passed through from POD HD500 / Helix now?

 

I'm currently using Helix 1/4" left out into a Line 6 Spider Valve MKII 1/4" power amp in with V30 speakers, which actually allows me to use full amp models. Now the L6 SV is pretty neutral, especially for a tube amp, but there is some coloration from the V30 speakers which I am actually okay with. I have IR'd the L6 SV and V30 speakers to go to a split signal to the XLR PA/FOH, giving me a very similar sound to the stage. This also gives me my same sound for casino shows that do not allow amps.

 

I would likely similarly IR the DT50 and Celestion/Line 6 12" custom speaker with each of the DT50 topologies. But in my experience, Helix preamp models do not sound quite as good / expected as the amp models do these amp-influenced cab IR's.

 

If I could get the post DT amp section signal with no DT cabinet simulation back into Helix from that DT XLR out, I think I could work with it.

 

EDIT: While I couldn't find it in the DT50 manual, I did find it in the DT MIDI Implementation guide. You can turn off DT amps and cabs (which I think DT-Helix users were already doing) and turn off the the mic off on the DT XLR out via MIDI CC 82 = 0 (which I didn't really see on this Helix forum).

 

Theoretically it seems you could bring DT XLR out (with all amps, cabs, and mics off) back into Helix and run it through a Helix Cab or IR block and out of the Helix XLR's to PA/FOH. IR's of the DT50 1x12 and all its topologies should give a similar PA / FOH sound as the DT50 stage sound with the DT cleared XLR out through them.

 

So I suppose with a total of 3 cables (2x XLR & 1 MIDI) you can have total control over DT50 and get a similar sound to Helix XLR out to the PA.

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Guys, I hate to say it, but I'm liking Helix full amp models 1/4" out into the power amp in of the Spider Valve MKii HD100 better than Helix preamp models into the DT50 into my Mesa Recto 212 V30 cab.

 

Maybe its a 100w 6L6 vs 50w EL34 preference, more clean headroom of the SV HD100, or Helix preamp vs amp models. Maybe my ears are just tuned to the SV and Helix since that's what I've been using.

 

I'll mess with it some more this weekend.

 

Don't get me wrong, Helix and DT50 sound great together. I think its just personal preference.

 

I'm also playing a lot of high gain amp models like Cali Mesa, Engl, Bogner.

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Guys, I hate to say it, but I'm liking Helix full amp models 1/4" out into the power amp in of the Spider Valve MKii HD100 better than Helix preamp models into the DT50 into my Mesa Recto 212 V30 cab.

 

its a fact the full amp models have much more character of the original than the preamp models.  Seems you lose a lot with just the preamps.  I do like being able to choose the class and topology to match with the DT though.  How do the full amp models compare with proper DT configuration compared to the Spider?

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its a fact the full amp models have much more character of the original than the preamp models.  Seems you lose a lot with just the preamps.  I do like being able to choose the class and topology to match with the DT though.  How do the full amp models compare with proper DT configuration compared to the Spider?

 

 

There's a bit more fullness and depth of the full Helix amp models into the SV power amp.  There's also quite a bit of difference in character of the high gain amps/SV preamps/DT50 between the two.

 

I swear it's just about like swapping out the 6L6's at 90W to EL34's at 40W in my Mesa Mark V or 6L6's vs EL34's in my Triple Rec.  Thank goodness the DT50 doesn't have the thinness of my EL34 Mesa Stiletto.  I actually like running my Stiletto preamp into my Triple Rec power amp.  This is all based on a Mesa Recto 212 too as the cab.  

 

FWIW, I'm really a Fender clean and Mesa mid-to-high gain guy.  As objective as I'm trying to be, long term personal preference and familiarity of sound and feel of my old gear could be coming into play.  If I were more into Marshall and Vox and boutique brit amp sounds, the DT50 would likely appeal to me more.  

 

Running Helix full amp models 1/4" out into DT50 1/4" Power Amp in set to Voicing I / Pentode / Class A-B is pretty similar to the SV, but the SV is still fuller and clearer to me with the Recto 212 cab.

 

I think I could spend some more time and make them sound closer.  And then there's the issue of getting DT50 XLR out back into Helix to route to a split signal path with cab/IR block to the Helix XLR out/PA. But to be honest, I don't think it's really worth the time, complexity, and $600 to me.

 

With all that said...

 

If I had the DT50 first, I certainly would not replace it with the SV.  If I kept the DT50, I would probably end up running full Helix amp models with it into the power amp in.  More time and experience with Helix / DT could change that.

 

Conversely, to those that have an SV, I wouldn't run out to replace it with a DT for Helix use without trying it with Helix amp models first.

 

My plan was to buy the DT50 and sell the SV, but I think I'll end up returning the DT50 to GC, save the $ and hold out for L6's next big amp thing.  I'm REALLY hoping for something that fits in the front compartment of that backpack.  

 

I'm not into open back combos or 412's (too big), which is why I've hung onto that Mesa 212. Fryette Power Station is a neutral 50W 6L6 amp, fits in Helix backpack could be a smaller replacement for my SV.  We'll see what L6 comes up with first though.  I'm not in a hurry.

 

I does seem that the SV series was geared more to the high gain market and DT is "your boutique amp factory".  Maybe I'll just get crazy, have it all, and use both with my Radial Tonebone VT amp head switcher  ;)  Or maybe Line 6 will take a Mesa Road King aproach in the next DT series and put 4 6L6's and 2 EL34's in the same head, all with voicings, Class A / AB and Pentode / Triode selection.  Might as well throw in a stereo digital solid state power amp while you're at it too  ;)

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Hey, checking in on how you are liking the DT50 and Helix.  I found a good deal on one.

 

One thing that puts me off a bit is the Helix manual, as well as this forum, recommendations to use only preamp models with the DT amps.  

 

TIP: With an L6 LINK connection to a DT-Series amp, often the Helix Preamp models are a better choice than Amp or Amp+Cab models. Manually configure the analog power amp options on the DT amp for more sonic possibilities!

 

Have you found a good way to incorporate a Helix amp/cab (or IR) into a split signal for XLR PA/FOH?  The only way I can think to do it is putting the equivalent amp model of the preamp model on the split path and manually matching the settings...sounds like a pain.  I would just assume put a mic on the cab and be done with it, which is sort of missing out on Helix capabilities.

 

Is there a way to turn off the Cabinet Simulation on the DT50 XLR out and run it back into Helix?  

 

Cabinet Simulated Direct Out – Provides a transformer-tapped
direct output with cabinet simulation for studio recording or live
performance without mic’ing your amplifier. The ground lift switch can
be used to eliminate hum or buzz. 
 
Is the cabinet simulation from the DT50 or passed through from POD HD500 / Helix now?
 
I'm currently using Helix 1/4" left out into a Line 6 Spider Valve MKII 1/4" power amp in with V30 speakers, which actually allows me to use full amp models.  Now the L6 SV is pretty neutral, especially for a tube amp, but there is some coloration from the V30 speakers which I am actually okay with.  I have IR'd the L6 SV and V30 speakers to go to a split signal to the XLR PA/FOH, giving me a very similar sound to the stage.  This also gives me my same sound for casino shows that do not allow amps.
 
I would likely similarly IR the DT50 and Celestion/Line 6 12" custom speaker with each of the DT50 topologies.  But in my experience, Helix preamp models do not sound quite as good / expected as the amp models do these amp-influenced cab IR's.  
 
If I could get the post DT amp section signal with no DT cabinet simulation back into Helix from that DT XLR out, I think I could work with it.
 
EDIT: While I couldn't find it in the DT50 manual, I did find it in the DT MIDI Implementation guide.  You can turn off DT amps and cabs (which I think DT-Helix users were already doing) and turn off the the mic off on the DT XLR out via MIDI CC 82 = 0 (which I didn't really see on this Helix forum).  
 
Theoretically it seems you could bring DT XLR out (with all amps, cabs, and mics off) back into Helix and run it through a Helix Cab or IR block and out of the Helix XLR's to PA/FOH.  IR's of the DT50 1x12 and all its topologies should give a similar PA / FOH sound as the DT50 stage sound with the DT cleared XLR out through them.
 
So I suppose with a total of 3 cables (2x XLR & 1 MIDI) you can have total control over DT50 and get a similar sound to Helix XLR out to the PA.

 

Sorry for the delay, been super busy with work.

 

I actually messed with this and decided to go simpler. All amp and cab models on the DT are disabled.  I just hook up the L6 link from the Helix to the Dt50 head and use full amp models (no cab). I played with changing topologies etc, but honestly prefer it 99% of the time on topotlogy III. For running to FOH I run a parallel out in helix with just the IR of choice (usually ownhammer). Works great. But most sound guys are stubborn and just mic up the 1/2 stack anyway which is fine as it sounds killer.

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Sorry for the delay, been super busy with work.

 

I actually messed with this and decided to go simpler. All amp and cab models on the DT are disabled.  I just hook up the L6 link from the Helix to the Dt50 head and use full amp models (no cab). I played with changing topologies etc, but honestly prefer it 99% of the time on topotlogy III. For running to FOH I run a parallel out in helix with just the IR of choice (usually ownhammer). Works great. But most sound guys are stubborn and just mic up the 1/2 stack anyway which is fine as it sounds killer.

 

No worries, thanks for replying back.  I came to about the same conclusion, except using voicing I for high gain Mesa-Bogner-Engl sounds.  I used the 1/4" Helix out into DT power amp in and not L6 Link.

 

Yep, I've had two outdoor gigs with pro sound guys since getting the Helix, and they wanted to mic the cab.  i don't blame them actually.  They know their tools and are comfortable.  That would like asking me to play a different guitar.

 

With our band's own JBL Eon system, I run Helix XLR out to the mixer.

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No worries, thanks for replying back.  I came to about the same conclusion, except using voicing I for high gain Mesa-Bogner-Engl sounds.  I used the 1/4" Helix out into DT power amp in and not L6 Link.

 

Yep, I've had two outdoor gigs with pro sound guys since getting the Helix, and they wanted to mic the cab.  i don't blame them actually.  They know their tools and are comfortable.  That would like asking me to play a different guitar.

 

With our band's own JBL Eon system, I run Helix XLR out to the mixer.

Not much difference between the 2 setups really. With the Helix amps and cabs disabled, I think it has the same net effect.

 

Works great, I know that. :) I also do the same thing you do into my Egnater Vengeance 1/2 stack. Just run a line to the effects return and I'm good to go. Sounds like a million bucks and only cost a few grand. :D

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Yeah, I am lazy about it, but can report that Helix through my DT25 sounds bloody fantastic!! I had been mucking around trying to get a decent FRFR and/or stereo thing going, with a Firehawk1500, L2t speakers, L3m speakers, other PA speakers, all that jazz. Always sounds great at home, just wanted something different for jamming with the guys / drums / other tube amp / bass, etc.

 

I used DtEdit to bypass the DT preamp models and cab and such; on channel B, for some reason when using L6Link, you still have control over the I-IV voicing switches, whereas they are disabled on channel A (when using L6Link). So I set up the four voicings on channel B to match the four topo settings of I-IV. This way I can manually toggle the power amp settings until I get it where I want it.

 

For Helix, just used full amp model / cabs / post wet FX, etc. In fact, was using some of the Glenn DeLaune artists presets; and they sound stellar through DT doing precisely nothing to the patches to change anything to accomodate the DT connection.

 

I think the key would be, get your direct patches sounding good for FRFR, and use the XLR outs from the Helix to feed the mixer / FOH / etc. You could also take the XLR out from the DT25, if you disable the mic model on the DT XLR out, also using DtEdit. But, the direct out sounds so good from Helix, you probably could just use the DT as your backline to hear yourself with tubes, use a floor monitor for FRFR fill, and let it rip. I didn't want to go down the rabbit hole of trying to dial in a patch to be configured to both outputs differently, not yet anyway, and I haven't tried using preamp only with MIDI cable to do the topo / DT changes.

 

I was very pleasantly surprised, I expected to have to jump through a bunch of hoops, do alternate programming using preamp models, do extra connection to go from Helix to DT, back to Helix, etc. And that is definitely still a possibility, the DT would do great as a dry center amp in a stereo wet/dry/wet rig!

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