Jump to content
BucF16

Helix and the DT amps

Recommended Posts

I've heard that HELIX doesn't have full compatibility with DT amps.

 

What WILL Helix do for DT users.

 

What WON'T Helix do for DT users.

 

What are the midi workarounds.

 

Love my DT50 and don't want to orphan it.

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

http://line6.com/support/topic/14264-helix-faq/?do=findComment&comment=102909

 

"It's important to note that Helix does not behave like HD500X when it comes to L6 LINK communication. It acts much more like HD500X and StageSource; that is, one DT will receive a mono signal and two will split the signal hard left and right. There's no tapping off from various points in the signal, although Helix's flexible routing makes this very easy to accomplish this manually. Unfortunately, at launch, there will also be no automatic topology recall, although if you're willing to hook up a MIDI cable as well, some of this can be accomplished via the Command Center page's Instant commands.

 

Helix's engine is completely different from HD500X's, and much of the functionality of the current DT Dream Rig simply can't apply to the new routing architecture. We're still not sure how deep down the L6 LINK rabbit hole we want to go, so anything's possible."

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

http://line6.com/support/topic/14264-helix-faq/?do=findComment&comment=102909

 

"It's important to note that Helix does not behave like HD500X when it comes to L6 LINK communication. It acts much more like HD500X and StageSource; that is, one DT will receive a mono signal and two will split the signal hard left and right. There's no tapping off from various points in the signal, although Helix's flexible routing makes this very easy to accomplish this manually. Unfortunately, at launch, there will also be no automatic topology recall, although if you're willing to hook up a MIDI cable as well, some of this can be accomplished via the Command Center page's Instant commands.

 

Helix's engine is completely different from HD500X's, and much of the functionality of the current DT Dream Rig simply can't apply to the new routing architecture. We're still not sure how deep down the L6 LINK rabbit hole we want to go, so anything's possible."

 

I'm sure it would sound great through DT50HD. Speaking for myself, I just can't see it being real big issue

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If I get one AND continue to use my DT25, I will most likely just use the DT as a straight input amplifier and forget about the L6 Link. I will be able to do channel switiching on the DT with a old fashioned footswitch. I worship settings that I play, I will probably just take the Helix straight into the board and relay on foldback for stage sound. The abandonment of the DT L6 Link concept by Line 6 is a little disappointing. Tends to remind us Apple when the changed their OS format several years ago. Apple users were upset but got over it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, here's a potential DT-Helix scenario: Using the MIDI editor, configure a channel of the DT to have no amp / cab / mic model set. Run a Helix model to the DT, run the XLR out of the DT back to the Helix XLR input. Run that signal through a Helix cab+mic process. 

 

No clue if this is possible, but knowing you can treat cabs and amps and preamps like FX blocks, and with all the ins and outs, fx loops, etc, there is likely a whole new incredible way to make the Helix interact with the DT. The main limitation is the DT XLR out, since it applies the mic model as defined by the DT. I also noticed on the DT, that the reverb signal seems to happen before the FX loop send. I have spent more time with the DT and the stomp box pedalboard, and the noise gate being first in line after the DT send kept doing weird things to the DT reverb tails. Ended up switching off the DT reverb entirely, and put an M9 on the pedalboard for post effects.

 

But I digress! The Helix has routing options that will probably make some very interesting DT-Helix ideas possible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I will be able to do channel switiching on the DT with a old fashioned footswitch.

 

I found one on Reverb.com that works for around $30.  I had been waiting forever for Sweetwater to get the Marshall version in, but it was twice the price, and this quite frankly looks like the same box with no logo on it.. Also has no tags for the reverb/channel.

 

So here is how the DT behaves with the two button latching footswitch - it would probably work better with a one button switch if you could get one that only did channel switching.

 

With the reverb button, light off means the Reverb is 'on'. Light on, reverb off. For the channel switching, it's not instant, and there is a noticable silent / audio drop out. If you are playing and trigger a channel change for a lead boost, it will sound like you flubbed the timing and came in late. Perfectly fine for changing not 'on the fly', and in general I do make good use of it. But since it can't function as a lead boost / clean boost as I originally hoped, it kinda took a backseat to other pedals, and I don't use it much.

 

I think with the DT+Helix, it would be a good idea to spend some time with the MIDI editor, and configure the DT to work in standalone mode in a way that functions best with how you intend to use it. For example, you can preset the DT to have 'no amp model' with no cab or mic simulation on the XLR output. This has been my go-to trick for using the HD500 linked to the DT, when I want to use the JTV59 for acoustic and reso models. Setting no amp model on the DT and no amp model on the HD500 means the gain and channel volumes DO NOT FUNCTION. It's a straight tap to the power amp.

 

In theory, this would be a way to connect the Helix. I was thinking then run the XLR out from the DT, which in theory should have cab or mic modeling back to the Helix XLR in and run that signal through a Helix cab+mic process. No clue if that's possible! But overall, it will help to redefine how the DT works for you when connected with a 1/4", or if the Helix is sending the DT audio with L6Link, how that signal interacts with the DT preconfigured amp models and typology / power settings.

 

I have A-I and B-I on one of my DT25's set to this no amp setting, and just changed the power settings, class A/B, pentode, all of that to the sound I liked with the reso and acoustics. The DT as a power amp only, no preamp / no cab / no mic, unit is still pretty awesome; and it allows you to bypass the older L6 portion of the preamp modelling, and utilize only the Bogner power amp portion, which is still pretty friggin' awesome.

 

In general, I now see the Helix as the send to the mains, rather than the XLR out from the DT25, and the DT will serve more as a stage amp, and could potentially contribute to the tone, if the XLR back to Helix to 'reamp' the DT signal through a Helix cab+mic is an actual possibility. 

 

I am gonna spend a lot of time day dreaming and speculating between now and whenever the 'end of summer' is!!!! :)

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Isn't the CV output on the Helix a channel switcher?

 

Also, if the Helix can send six midi messages per patch change, you could use that as a switcher via midi, and that would also do things like turn DT's reverb select/on/off.

 

I was in the market for a cheap midi foot controller but it looks like Helix does everything I really wanted for that...only not cheap.  But if I was going to buy it anyway, then it's cheap (?)  (does that make sense?)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Isn't the CV output on the Helix a channel switcher?

 

Also, if the Helix can send six midi messages per patch change, you could use that as a switcher via midi, and that would also do things like turn DT's reverb select/on/off

 

Absolutely.  They already said that was the workaround for launch but at least intimated that more L6 link compatibility could come down the road.  I think someone already said they were using the midi to change their DT and it was flawless.  Sadly, I have a feeling that these new models will eliminate the need for a DT...  Just so much more you can do when not tied to a guitar amp...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My real question is about cabinet modelling:  I may totally misunderstand what's going on in my HD/DT so help me out here.

 

If using the full HD models (NOT the Preamp models), I'm under the impression that the cabinet modelling applied to the DT50 is not the same as if you were running studio-direct.

 

IF that's true, then, when using Helix with DT and full amp models (NOT preamp only models), is there studio-direct type cab modelling being sent to my DT?  I would think that there's DT specific cab modelling in the HD500.

 

Do I understand this correctly or am I over-complicating the way cab modelling works in the HD500/DT50 line6 Link scenario.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After reading all the posts about Helix's loss of L6 Link in its current incarnation, if I want to continue using my DTs with all the configuration options available with my 500X and multiple DTs,  Helix is not a simple option to replace the 500X.

 

I'm hoping the MIDI templates that might be set up in Helix that Digital Igloo mentioned will prove me wrong. While the L6 Link can still be used between DTs with only one MIDI connection to the first DT, audio is transferred to the second DT which makes stereo a bit of a problem. A second MIDI connection will be needed to the second DT, but both DTs will be listening to channel 1. 

 

Maybe someone here already has all this figured out.

 

This does not mean I wouldn't love to play through the Helix into an FRFR setup.  :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It would be nice to see Video shoot using dt amps via helix

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm getting a refund!!

 

I was sitting here with my new Helix (just got it today) trying to figure out what's wrong with the L6 cable. Had to turn up the amp knobs to hear anything. (I always kept them at zero with my HD500). So go online and learn that the Helix and DT amps are NOT compatible??? WTF?? 2000 bucks for a unit with preamp only options and an L6 cable. Was I crazy to assume that they would work together?? That's the whole reason I use Line 6!

 

I'm taking the Helix back, putting the 2000 bucks back in the bank, and keeping my HD500. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm getting a refund!!

 

I was sitting here with my new Helix (just got it today) trying to figure out what's wrong with the L6 cable. Had to turn up the amp knobs to hear anything. (I always kept them at zero with my HD500). So go online and learn that the Helix and DT amps are NOT compatible??? WTF?? 2000 bucks for a unit with preamp only options and an L6 cable. Was I crazy to assume that they would work together?? That's the whole reason I use Line 6!

 

I'm taking the Helix back, putting the 2000 bucks back in the bank, and keeping my HD500. 

 

I might have replied to this in another thread but anyways.  Helix doesn't fully integrate with the DT because the modeling architecture is completely different.  In fact, as is stands now, the Helix signal is applied to the DT's HD ampmodeling before hitting the power section.  That's why the knobs on the DT are all functional.  It sounds like crap!  However, with one midi cable and a little Helix programming you can turn off all the DT's internal amp modeling, change the class, topology and pentode/triode settings and apply the Helix signal straight to the tube power section.  The difference is night and day!  The Helix amp modeling sounds incredible with the DT once you do this.  Just connect a midi cable along with your L6 link from the Helix midi out to the DT midi in.  I already created a setlist with templates for ALL the Helix amps and preamps with the default settings.  Load it up and try it.  See if you like the amps or preamps better.  Its worth the effort.  In the mean time they say they are working on the issue for what its worth.  Doesn't matter, with midi its a non-issue.

http://share.myflare.com/hB549Z

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm getting a refund!!

 

I was sitting here with my new Helix (just got it today) trying to figure out what's wrong with the L6 cable. Had to turn up the amp knobs to hear anything. (I always kept them at zero with my HD500). So go online and learn that the Helix and DT amps are NOT compatible??? WTF?? 2000 bucks for a unit with preamp only options and an L6 cable. Was I crazy to assume that they would work together?? That's the whole reason I use Line 6!

 

I'm taking the Helix back, putting the 2000 bucks back in the bank, and keeping my HD500.

Yeah buddy, before ya send it back try what Radatats said... The Bogner part of the DT25 + Helix is worth jumping through a couple hoops. One midi cable, and Radatats already did all the work setting up patches!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I might have replied to this in another thread but anyways.  Helix doesn't fully integrate with the DT because the modeling architecture is completely different.  In fact, as is stands now, the Helix signal is applied to the DT's HD ampmodeling before hitting the power section.  That's why the knobs on the DT are all functional.  It sounds like crap!  However, with one midi cable and a little Helix programming you can turn off all the DT's internal amp modeling, change the class, topology and pentode/triode settings and apply the Helix signal straight to the tube power section.  The difference is night and day!  The Helix amp modeling sounds incredible with the DT once you do this.  Just connect a midi cable along with your L6 link from the Helix midi out to the DT midi in.  I already created a setlist with templates for ALL the Helix amps and preamps with the default settings.  Load it up and try it.  See if you like the amps or preamps better.  Its worth the effort.  In the mean time they say they are working on the issue for what its worth.  Doesn't matter, with midi its a non-issue.

http://share.myflare.com/hB549Z

Radatats, I will first admit that I am a MIDI dummy. That said I have my Helix connected via L6 and one midi cable as you describe (Helix DT50/out to DT/in). I have even downloaded your templates. I still have multiple issues when I select any of them.

 

I downloaded your templates but I am getting mixed results. I was under the impression that CC#11 value 0 would eliminate all of the control panel and just run through the power amp section. The helix has taken over channel A but the control knobs still function and affect the overall sound. I went through each of your midi settings on your templates and they are all pretty similar. A typical layout for a template is as follows.

 

Instant   Midi Ch   CC#   Value   

    1          Base       19       0      This tells me Channel A/B select value 0 places it on A

    2          Base       11       0      This tells me HD amp select value 0 means none

    3          Base       71       0      This tells me Cabinet select value 0 means none

    4          Base       82       0      This tells me Direct out Mic Emulation type value 0 means none

    5          Base       36     127    This tells me Reverb bypass/enable value 127 that the reverb is bypassed?

    6          Base       77   0 or 1   Tells me that the Topology is either 0 is tight  1 is loose.

 

 

 

Does instant 2 not take out the controls on the face of the DT?

Does instant 5 not remove the reverb? 

My question is what should my global Midi/Tempo settings be?  (I think this might be a part of my problem)

Also I do see that there are individual CC#'s for Drive, Bass, Mid, ETC but there are 7 control knobs and only 6 instant commands (yes I can turn the reverb to low). 

 

Again I am almost completely clueless about Midi and with what you have posted I have dabbled into this strange ocean but I am now feel like I am swimming against the current drowning fast. I so desperately want to keep my DT50 but it is getting harder too. I did buy a QSC K12 and run the Helix straight into it and it sounds great but I want my tube head and I want my 2X12 with vintage 30's because they still sound great and look even better.. I still have 10 days left to get this worked out to return the QSC....   Any thoughts

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Radatats, I will first admit that I am a MIDI dummy. That said I have my Helix connected via L6 and one midi cable as you describe (Helix DT50/out to DT/in). I have even downloaded your templates. I still have multiple issues when I select any of them.

 

I downloaded your templates but I am getting mixed results. I was under the impression that CC#11 value 0 would eliminate all of the control panel and just run through the power amp section. The helix has taken over channel A but the control knobs still function and affect the overall sound. I went through each of your midi settings on your templates and they are all pretty similar. A typical layout for a template is as follows.

 

Instant   Midi Ch   CC#   Value   

    1          Base       19       0      This tells me Channel A/B select value 0 places it on A

    2          Base       11       0      This tells me HD amp select value 0 means none

    3          Base       71       0      This tells me Cabinet select value 0 means none

    4          Base       82       0      This tells me Direct out Mic Emulation type value 0 means none

    5          Base       36     127    This tells me Reverb bypass/enable value 127 that the reverb is bypassed?

    6          Base       77   0 or 1   Tells me that the Topology is either 0 is tight  1 is loose.

 

 

 

Does instant 2 not take out the controls on the face of the DT?

Does instant 5 not remove the reverb? 

My question is what should my global Midi/Tempo settings be?  (I think this might be a part of my problem)

Also I do see that there are individual CC#'s for Drive, Bass, Mid, ETC but there are 7 control knobs and only 6 instant commands (yes I can turn the reverb to low). 

 

Again I am almost completely clueless about Midi and with what you have posted I have dabbled into this strange ocean but I am now feel like I am swimming against the current drowning fast. I so desperately want to keep my DT50 but it is getting harder too. I did buy a QSC K12 and run the Helix straight into it and it sounds great but I want my tube head and I want my 2X12 with vintage 30's because they still sound great and look even better.. I still have 10 days left to get this worked out to return the QSC....   Any thoughts

The secret is- you have to turn off the preamp section of the DT amp, so that the Helix will replace it.

  1. Download DT Edit- http://rome2.github.io/dtedit/
  2. Connect your DT amps midi in and out to a quality PC midi interface. The M-Audio ones work well.
  3. With the amp on standby, open DT Edit
  4. In the upper left corner, you'll see the 4 Topologies. Click on 1
  5. In the preamp section, select none. It defaults to a Fender Twin. Once you do that, the mic models disappear too.
  6. In the output section on the upper right, select Topology one. Select the class and triode/pentode mode etc for that topology to default to.
  7. Repeat #4-6 for the other topologies.
  8. Close DT Edit

Now when you connect the midi out of the Helix, it will take the midi CC commands that you program in the Helix Command Center for each preset to the desired output mode of the DT. You program the Helix "instant" switch, not a footswitch unless you want to select it separately. It works great, and it is a bit of a pain, but once you've programmed it, it's done.

 

I'm getting stellar tones with the Helix/DT setup using the "Amp" models- not Preamp or using the Cab models. You can experiment to find out what works best for you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Radatats, I will first admit that I am a MIDI dummy. That said I have my Helix connected via L6 and one midi cable as you describe (Helix DT50/out to DT/in). I have even downloaded your templates. I still have multiple issues when I select any of them.

 

yeah, I have no idea why it isn't working for you.  Each of my patches should turn off the DT amp models so your DT knobs should not have any effect.  I am rebuilding the set with a couple of changes I have figured out along the way.

 

- adding a new patch that does nothing but turn off the amp/cab models in channel A, voice I, set pentode, class AB and topology 1. (this works just like using DT Edit and will stay this way until you either reset the DT or change it with another patch).

- the new amp patches will just select the previously configured channel A, voice I and set the proper class and topology.

- eliminate all the confusing FS settings. (if you want something different you can program it)

- eliminate the preamp and cab. (if you want something different you can program it)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm getting a refund!!

 

I was sitting here with my new Helix (just got it today) trying to figure out what's wrong with the L6 cable. Had to turn up the amp knobs to hear anything. (I always kept them at zero with my HD500). So go online and learn that the Helix and DT amps are NOT compatible??? WTF?? 2000 bucks for a unit with preamp only options and an L6 cable. Was I crazy to assume that they would work together?? That's the whole reason I use Line 6!

 

I'm taking the Helix back, putting the 2000 bucks back in the bank, and keeping my HD500.

 

 

Yes Line 6 has done a bang up job over the years of making all there gear integrate well and there is something to be said for that but I think that perhaps some of the folks in this discussion are missing the point of the DT series. Maybe before you get super upset about the lack of integration presently available with your helix you should take a moment to appreciate the inherent differences in these two products..

I love all the modeling technology we have at our disposal these days, its come a long ways over the past 15 years and I presently own both the AXE FXII and the helix which I am just starting to learn the ins and outs of. I use the AXE FX all the time for gigging, band practice, and other working situations.. It is able to recreate an incredible number of amp models very well, offers massive DSP, deep editing, and routing flexibility that is unparalleled for the working musician but all of these modelers are designed to be run through either an FRFR get up or a true stereo power amp and cab. Ive tried running my AXE FX and helix through a number of heads and combo amps using either 4 cord method, in the fx loop or straight into the front end of the amp but I have always felt that doing so does nothing but diminish the power of the modeler. After much exploration I personally like the sound I get running my modeling gizmos through a good stereo tube power amp and a good stereo guitar cab. For me the ENGL e810/20 stereo pwr amp and a pair of THD cabs 2x12 is the beez neez and though this is entirely subjective I often times leave all pwr amp and cab simulations on..

The DT50 I own is in my mind a completely different animal and it appeals to the Tube amp purist the still lurks inside me. Of all the line 6 products I have owned the DT is IMHO by far and away the most accurate take line 6 has produced on any of the 4 voicing options you have access to without using any midi or HD connections. They sound true to the originals in a way that that just stomps all the other stuff L6 products I have owned including the helix. This is especially true of the classic Fender tones, class A, and classic Brit voicing. The DT seems to capture all the subtle nuances of the originals that none of my modeling products can quite nail. Im referring to things like the picking dynamics, the bloom or Sag of the power tubes, the inherent compression found in real tube amps etc..  I think this is because there is minimal modeling happening and a truly excellent Bogner designed pwr section that is far better than those found in any of there other collaborations.

Im just saying products are designed for specific purposes and you cant jam a square peg into a round hole.. Food for thought....

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes Line 6 has done a bang up job over the years of making all there gear integrate well and there is something to be said for that but I think that perhaps some of the folks in this discussion are missing the point of the DT series. Maybe before you get super upset about the lack of integration presently available with your helix you should take a moment to appreciate the inherent differences in these two products..

I love all the modeling technology we have at our disposal these days, its come a long ways over the past 15 years and I presently own both the AXE FXII and the helix which I am just starting to learn the ins and outs of. I use the AXE FX all the time for gigging, band practice, and other working situations.. It is able to recreate an incredible number of amp models very well, offers massive DSP, deep editing, and routing flexibility that is unparalleled for the working musician but all of these modelers are designed to be run through either an FRFR get up or a true stereo power amp and cab. Ive tried running my AXE FX and helix through a number of heads and combo amps using either 4 cord method, in the fx loop or straight into the front end of the amp but I have always felt that doing so does nothing but diminish the power of the modeler. After much exploration I personally like the sound I get running my modeling gizmos through a good stereo tube power amp and a good stereo guitar cab. For me the ENGL e810/20 stereo pwr amp and a pair of THD cabs 2x12 is the beez neez and though this is entirely subjective I often times leave all pwr amp and cab simulations on..

The DT50 I own is in my mind a completely different animal and it appeals to the Tube amp purist the still lurks inside me. Of all the line 6 products I have owned the DT is IMHO by far and away the most accurate take line 6 has produced on any of the 4 voicing options you have access to without using any midi or HD connections. They sound true to the originals in a way that that just stomps all the other stuff L6 products I have owned including the helix. This is especially true of the classic Fender tones, class A, and classic Brit voicing. The DT seems to capture all the subtle nuances of the originals that none of my modeling products can quite nail. Im referring to things like the picking dynamics, the bloom or Sag of the power tubes, the inherent compression found in real tube amps etc..  I think this is because there is minimal modeling happening and a truly excellent Bogner designed pwr section that is far better than those found in any of there other collaborations.

Im just saying products are designed for specific purposes and you cant jam a square peg into a round hole.. Food for thought....

What I am getting from this is, you like your AXE FX. You are learning Helix. You like your modeling gizmos through an ENGL and you like the DT. All are very fine observations. But what my man is getting at is what I have been saying as well: I purchased the flagship rig, an HD500 and DT amp. It is a completely self contained, integrated system of awesomeness! Can't wait to see the updates to this rig! I mean really, what company would create a self proclaimed "flagship" rig that they advertised as "The Worlds Best Sounding, Most Advanced Guitar System" only to shortly after release, abandon it? That wouldn't make sense.

 

Line 6 introduces the updated POD HD500X! Not an upgrade at all. Just more DSP! I never hit the DSP limit so....Whatever! NAMM comes around and we get Amplifi (nothing to do with updating the POD or DT). NAMM comes around again and we get Firehawk. (nothing to do with updating the POD or DT) NAMM comes around again and we are introduced to HELIX! Complete with Preamp models and an L6 Link. 

 

OK! Now we're talkin'! The demos sound awesome. Helix looks sexy! I start measuring out the larger foot print on my Pedal Train. Multiple FX loops? I need a towel for the drool! I'm ready! BRING IT!

 

Wait.......What the hell do you mean that it doesn't work with the DT amp like the POD did? What do you mean it can't run these two DT amps and two L-series speakers i got like the POD could? What the hell do you mean with all this "midi work around" business? Hey, for $2k, I ain't engaging in no "midi work around"! 

 

What did Butters say in South Park?....."Oh Hamburgers!"

 

Look, we have already "taken a moment to appreciate the inherent differences in these two products." Those "inherent differences" are the frikkin problem! Helix is not the product that Kakkoee, myself and many others were hoping for. So as cool as Helix may be, it will remain lumped into the category of Amplifi, Amplifi TT, Firehawk, Firehawk 1500, Variax Standard..... A bunch of stuff that as cool as they may be individually, don't help me take my rig to the next level! C'est la vie!

 

Fortunately, my rig sounds great! So, I'll spend my $2k on a new Pearlcaster! Yeah Boy!!!!!

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Couldn't agree more ! DT25 and podhd500x sounds so good that no need for helix.

  • Upvote 1
  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

[...] So as cool as Helix may be, it will remain lumped into the category of Amplifi, [...]

 

Couldn't agree more ! DT25 and podhd500x sounds so good that no need for helix.

I respect your opinion - I want the DT integration, too.

But Helix sounds great, anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What I am getting from this is, you like your AXE FX. You are learning Helix. You like your modeling gizmos through an ENGL and you like the DT. All are very fine observations. But what my man is getting at is what I have been saying as well: I purchased the flagship rig, an HD500 and DT amp. It is a completely self contained, integrated system of awesomeness! Can't wait to see the updates to this rig! I mean really, what company would create a self proclaimed "flagship" rig that they advertised as "The Worlds Best Sounding, Most Advanced Guitar System" only to shortly after release, abandon it? That wouldn't make sense.

 

Line 6 introduces the updated POD HD500X! Not an upgrade at all. Just more DSP! I never hit the DSP limit so....Whatever! NAMM comes around and we get Amplifi (nothing to do with updating the POD or DT). NAMM comes around again and we get Firehawk. (nothing to do with updating the POD or DT) NAMM comes around again and we are introduced to HELIX! Complete with Preamp models and an L6 Link. 

 

OK! Now we're talkin'! The demos sound awesome. Helix looks sexy! I start measuring out the larger foot print on my Pedal Train. Multiple FX loops? I need a towel for the drool! I'm ready! BRING IT!

 

Wait.......What the hell do you mean that it doesn't work with the DT amp like the POD did? What do you mean it can't run these two DT amps and two L-series speakers i got like the POD could? What the hell do you mean with all this "midi work around" business? Hey, for $2k, I ain't engaging in no "midi work around"! 

 

What did Butters say in South Park?....."Oh Hamburgers!"

 

Look, we have already "taken a moment to appreciate the inherent differences in these two products." Those "inherent differences" are the frikkin problem! Helix is not the product that Kakkoee, myself and many others were hoping for. So as cool as Helix may be, it will remain lumped into the category of Amplifi, Amplifi TT, Firehawk, Firehawk 1500, Variax Standard..... A bunch of stuff that as cool as they may be individually, don't help me take my rig to the next level! C'est la vie!

 

Fortunately, my rig sounds great! So, I'll spend my $2k on a new Pearlcaster! Yeah Boy!!!!!

+1 well written! Line6 has proven it will completely replace the flagship instead to something that will cost twice as much.  It's not a sustainable model. As much as I like my HD500x and DT combo the idea of going back all analog with the stuff, I've learned being the digital world is tempting. Yes other companies will update amps, pedals etc... as well. But when company [x] changes a new pedal I want, that pedal will still plug in and work with my old gear.  Part of that is inherant to the fact it's analog so there is only 1 interface standard. But from an end consumers point of view, I don't care. I want what serves me best, the details of interface and limitations of technology are not my problem or concern.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

+1 well written! Line6 has proven it will completely replace the flagship instead to something that will cost twice as much.  It's not a sustainable model. As much as I like my HD500x and DT combo the idea of going back all analog with the stuff, I've learned being the digital world is tempting. Yes other companies will update amps, pedals etc... as well. But when company [x] changes a new pedal I want, that pedal will still plug in and work with my old gear.  Part of that is inherant to the fact it's analog so there is only 1 interface standard. But from an end consumers point of view, I don't care. I want what serves me best, the details of interface and limitations of technology are not my problem or concern.

Yep!!!!!

 

With that said way better than I could say it Palico, I went ahead and got myself that Pearlcaster I mentioned!

 

http://line6.com/support/topic/19628-i-would-have-spent-my-money-on-helix-but/?p=147825

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe that more DT integration is in the works, and I'm looking forward to it, but I know that, in the digital/electronic world, lack of backward compatibility is very common.  Often it's due to reaching the limits of an existing architecture and wanting to take advantage of new technology.  This happens all the time with computers, video game consoles, software, etc...  It's just the way it goes.

 

I'm having a really enjoyable experience with my Helix and DT25.  I used DT Edit to set up the DT the way I want,  and it stays that way unless I want to go back in and change it, and now I don't even need to run the MIDI cable.

 

Still, I think there's more compatibility coming from Line 6 in the not so distant future.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm having a really enjoyable experience with my Helix and DT25.  I used DT Edit to set up the DT the way I want,  and it stays that way unless I want to go back in and change it, and now I don't even need to run the MIDI cable.

 

+1 to that! Yup, same here! I actually set my DT25 up for dual use - I blanked the amp/cab models on all four voicings of channel B, for use with Helix, and set them to their corresponding topo I-IV. Then I set up four amp/cab/topo voicings on channel A, to use with my 'regular' pedalboard, in 4CM. I mostly just use the Plexi bright with that board, but I loaded up three other amp/cab pairings that give me a little cleaner and a little dirtier. Helix has been taking most of my time lately though!

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Considering getting a Helix.  I have a couple questions - wondering if you guys would help.

 

I have an M-audio midi that I can turn off the modeling stuff on the DT25.  I'm new to midi but this doesn't seem too bad.  If I understand you correctly I can use the Helix on Channel B with a one way midi chord to send back to the DT which topology I want for a particular patch - for example, Class A Top III for Vox amp - then if I change the patch the Helix command center can change to Class AB Top I for a Fender, etc.??  Is that correct??

 

Also, currently I use the DI out of the DT25 to the PA board. That works well for me since we have in ear monitors and do not want stage volume.  From reading post and a little research it seems that I would the Helix cabs/IR.  How can I or is it possible to send the signal back to the Helix for the IR and then direct out from the Helix to the PA board??  Can I use the Line6 Link - or will the Line6 Link send the signal back to the Helix??  4CM?? 

 

As a side note I use a Rivera Rockcrusher Recorder as load box currently.  I tried using the direct out on it but didn't have good results through the PA.  I don't have time to sit there and figure it out (I'm sure it would be amazing just don't have the time to figure it out).  I use it for load box during a set and then use it at home as the attenuator for tone building.  Right now I would like to avoid using the Rockcrusher's DI out to Helix because there would another EQ, etc.  I just assume keep using it as a load box for the DT25 Head.

 

Any thoughts would be much appreciated.  Thanks in advance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been working on my DT/Helix rig and really loving it.  I set all voicings in channel A to Class A, topology I-IV, and Channel B to Class AB, topology I-IV, all no amp or cab.  I use L6 link and one midi cable.  I set up a setlist with all the amps and preamps with an instant midi command to select the correct channel and voicing for each amp.  I don't care about using the DT standalone anymore, it's just for the Helix now.

 

I am really puzzled by the huge swings in volume between the preamps and full amps.  Some are close but others are way off.  The Div/13 preamp is practically inaudible but the full amp cranks.  I was hoping the preamps would be usable but so far I'm kind of drawn to the full amps.  What I want to end up with is a set of templates that are volume leveled and ready to use with the DT to build my tones.  I'd really like to hear from Line 6 official whether the full amp signal is  too hot for the DT or not.  I don't want to hurt anything playing around.  For a small amp it sure can get awful loud but it does sound fantastic.  The Supro in Class A topo III is so sweet...

 

I haven't tried using the DT direct out back in to the Helix but I'm planning on it.  Should be able to bring it back in and use it for the wet signal to the PA in stereo.  Have to see whether the mic in the DT is OK or if I need to use Helix cabs or IR's (probably).

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks radatats.  I totally understand the voicing and topology idea.  So I would tell the DT via midi on each patch what topology and voicing I want.  Sounds easy enough.  I'm not a midi pro - but that seems doable.

 

Can I ask a few more questions - can you with one midi and Line6 Link - use the DT25 power section only - but still use the Helix cab sims or IR and then delays and or reverb after power section??  I think the answer is yes - but I can't seem to figure out how (I Don't have the Helix yet).  I'd like to run direct from the Helix to the PA - do you think that would work??  I don't want to give up on the actual analog power section or the tubes.

 

I never thought of the full amps being too HOT.  I usually run my DT25 master at 3 o'clock and the PODHD500 master at about 1 o'clock.  If you find out would you let  me know.

 

The preamp volume differences kinda stinks - that is the way it is now with the POD.  I feel like I have to arrange my sets with amps that are comparable.  If the full amp models are more even that would be great.  I use a lot of amp models.

 

If you try out the DT direct out back to the Helix - let me know. 

 

I would need the direct from Helix to PA to work or I don't think I would be able to use it (for what I'm doing).

 

"I don't care about using the DT standalone anymore, it's just for the Helix now" - Does that mean it's worth it??  Price and messing around with all this and making it work??

 

Thanks again for helping.  I really appreciate your help.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Once the DT is set up as I described, you only select the appropriate channel and voicing in the DT with midi from Helix, you aren't actually changing anything in the DT.  Helix outputs are so different from the HD500 and are independently configurable.  You can easily have a feed to the DT and a separate feed to FOH from Helix.

If I didn't already have a DT I don't think I would buy one to use with Helix.  There are other options like the Friedman, Matrix, Tech 21, a pair of good powered monitors or L2/L3 speakers.  Helix really is good enough to stay FRFR completely.  I'm just stubbornly trying to get the most out of the gear I already have.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok. With your setup if I set the DT25 (via m audio midi and leave it) channel A topology III - to Class A topology III then my Vox patches I would just send there - correct?? If I set the dt25 channel A topology I to Class AB topology I then I'd send my fender amps there - correct?? So the midi from helix to DT25 wouldn't "change" anything - I would just have it set up before hand.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok. With your setup if I set the DT25 (via m audio midi and leave it) channel A topology III - to Class A topology III then my Vox patches I would just send there - correct?? If I set the dt25 channel A topology I to Class AB topology I then I'd send my fender amps there - correct?? So the midi from helix to DT25 wouldn't "change" anything - I would just have it set up before hand.

 

Pretty much.  In this case, the only MIDI I would send for each patch would be for the DT to switch topologies to the one I want.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very cool. What about a DT path with an amp and a separate path with a full helix model and run those to the board - dual amp - one DT and one not?? Seems possible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok. With your setup if I set the DT25 (via m audio midi and leave it) channel A topology III - to Class A topology III then my Vox patches I would just send there - correct?? If I set the dt25 channel A topology I to Class AB topology I then I'd send my fender amps there - correct?? So the midi from helix to DT25 wouldn't "change" anything - I would just have it set up before hand.

 

Correct!  It is helpful to recognize that the topology switch on the DT brings up a preconfigured "voicing" (amp/cab) rather than changing actual topology so I call it Channel A voice I,II,II etc and only use the term topology when actually configuring the amp settings for that voicing.  With my setup if an amp needs Class AB, topo IV then I send it to Channel B voice IV.  You get the idea...

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Absolutely! I envision using the DT as the power amp section with either running a clean AB top I or matching the amp type.

 

I also envision dual amp tones - one with DT (back to Helix) and one with all Helix amp models going to the board. Seems the possibilities are endless.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just got the Helix yesterday and I still haven't figured out how to do anything with DT.  Can someone help me out?

 

I want to run something like this if possible:  Guitar -> Helix effects pre amp (compression, etc.) ->Helix Models (pre or full) -> Post FX stuff (delay, etc) -> run it out to the DT25 power section - > to Rockcrusher line out - back to Helix for IRs, etc. then out to the PA.

 

Where do I put the FX send and returns - why can't I hear the DT through my headphones as I turn up the master?  I'm totally lost with this and ready to throw in the towel.

 

I thought I could use an Fx Send from the Helix to FX return on the amp and then have the Rockcrusher act as load box and take the direct line out of the Rockcrusher back to the Helix Return1 to be sent out to PA - What am I missing??  I'm totally lost.

 

Should I use the 1/4' out of Helix to FX Return on the amp??  Will I still be able to have another output to a PA??

 

I tried the Line6 link but getting nothing through my headphones - How would get signal back from the Rockcrusher to Helix.

 

Ok - There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious clue.  I'm totally missing something here.  Please help.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just got the Helix yesterday and I still haven't figured out how to do anything with DT.  Can someone help me out?

 

I want to run something like this if possible:  Guitar -> Helix effects pre amp (compression, etc.) ->Helix Models (pre or full) -> Post FX stuff (delay, etc) -> run it out to the DT25 power section - > to Rockcrusher line out - back to Helix for IRs, etc. then out to the PA.

 

Where do I put the FX send and returns - why can't I hear the DT through my headphones as I turn up the master?  I'm totally lost with this and ready to throw in the towel.

 

I thought I could use an Fx Send from the Helix to FX return on the amp and then have the Rockcrusher act as load box and take the direct line out of the Rockcrusher back to the Helix Return1 to be sent out to PA - What am I missing??  I'm totally lost.

 

Should I use the 1/4' out of Helix to FX Return on the amp??  Will I still be able to have another output to a PA??

 

I tried the Line6 link but getting nothing through my headphones - How would get signal back from the Rockcrusher to Helix.

 

Ok - There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious clue.  I'm totally missing something here.  Please help.

 

 

 Hey Matt, just looking into this for you since your message yesterday and it's possible yes.  

 

do you have a Rockcrusher?

 

If so here is what to do:

 

GUITAR --> HELIX Guitar in (of course ;) )

(Helix Pre amp FX --> Helix Preamp blocks --> post Preamp / pre D25 Poweramp FX)

HELIX SEND 1 --> DT25 FX RETURN (also marked as Power Amp in)

D25 SPEAKER OUT --> ROCKCRUSHER SPEAKER INPUT - marked FROM AMP (choose either 8 or 16 ohms - same on both devices)

ROCKCRUSHER LINE OUT JACK --> HELIX RETURN 1

(post D25 Poweramp FX if you want)

(IR / Cab simulator)

HELIX XLR OUT -->  PA system

 

(also it's best to connect a speaker wire from the Rockcrusher speaker out to a Speaker cab just in case you flip the rock crusher's bypass button!)

 

That puts the power section of the D25 in Helix's Send/Return 1 loop.

 

It should work OK!!

Good Luck :)

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

you can also do this without an FX loop.  set your pre FX and amp models in path 1, set the output to 1/4 and send that to the DT FX return.  Bring the Rockcrusher direct out back in to the Helix Aux in and set path 2 input to Aux.  Put all your post FX in path 2.

 

If you want to use the L6 link, do the same thing but set path 1 output to Digital.  You should configure the DT as I mentioned in other posts.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×