Relay G10 USB input poor design

[coffeeking]

Just so ya'll know, Line 6 are NOT going to solve this problem as it would be completely impossible to recall them and re-tool it all.

The best you could hope for is that one day (It wont be this year, it wont be next year, so many years from now) that they release a new version without this cockamamie micro USB power supply on it.

 

I actually spoke to a electrician who specialises in musical items who said he could easily mod it to work from a normal guitar pedal power supply, but of course that would make the warranty invalid.

 

I have it on good word that the Line 6 G10 Relay was never actually intended to be sold anywhere else other than none musical physical shops like Macro/Target etc but then they changed their mind.

[GroundedSaintz]

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01M2C5KHC/ref=mp_s_a_1_5/161-4993234-2150528?ie=UTF8&qid=1483821353&sr=8-5&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=magnetic+micro+usb&dpPl=1&dpID=31OS8%2BJU5tL&ref=plSrch

[GroundedSaintz]

I got a magnetic USB connector that can break away easily if the device falls or is yanked on accidenthttps://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01M2C5KHC/ref=mp_s_a_1_5/161-4993234-2150528?ie=UTF8&qid=1483821353&sr=8-5&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=magnetic+micro+usb&dpPl=1&dpID=31OS8%2BJU5tL&ref=plSrch

Plus it prevents any wear on the port.

[coffeeking]

I got a magnetic USB connector that can break away easily if the device falls or is yanked on accidenthttps://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01M2C5KHC/ref=mp_s_a_1_5/161-4993234-2150528?ie=UTF8&qid=1483821353&sr=8-5&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=magnetic+micro+usb&dpPl=1&dpID=31OS8%2BJU5tL&ref=plSrch

Plus it prevents any wear on the port.

Hmm, yeah, might be an idea. Although just how strong are the magnets?

I guess you dont want them to be too strong otherwise it will break the unit internally again, but you dont want them to be too weak otherwise the cable will keep disconnecting.

I'd like to hear other peoples use of this in a live gig scenario.

[jbuhajla]

For everyone looking into buying a wireless system and are greatly concerned about the micro usb power input, just spend the extra $20 and get the G30 and don't worry about it. If you already have one still under warranty, keep getting replacements under that warranty.  If it is out of warranty date, sell it to someone who is willing to fix it, and buy yourself something else. 

 

Myself, I am not worried about the micro usb, so I went with the G10. If you have one that is broken and you may want to sell it, let me know and I may buy it for the right price. 

[coffeeking]

For everyone looking into buying a wireless system and are greatly concerned about the micro usb power input, just spend the extra $20 and get the G30 and don't worry about it. If you already have one still under warranty, keep getting replacements under that warranty.  If it is out of warranty date, sell it to someone who is willing to fix it, and buy yourself something else. 

 

Myself, I am not worried about the micro usb, so I went with the G10. If you have one that is broken and you may want to sell it, let me know and I may buy it for the right price. 

 

Im gonna assume that most people bought the G10 over the G30 for the same reason I did, the fact that you just plug the small sender unit in and its done.

The G10 has the old fashioned large style belt packs that require more set up work each time.

I see that he G30 has a normal guitar pedal type power supply (None micro USB) so for some this will be a better solution if their G10 breaks.

[Driheaves]

Im gonna assume that most people bought the G10 over the G30 for the same reason I did, the fact that you just plug the small sender unit in and its done.

The G10 has the old fashioned large style belt packs that require more set up work each time.

I see that he G30 has a normal guitar pedal type power supply (None micro USB) so for some this will be a better solution if their G10 breaks.

Looks like some confusion or transpose error. The Line 6 G30 has the belt pack and uses disposable batteries in the transmitter and is a totally different device and uses older technology than the G10. . The G10, with it's newer technology and has the rechargeable transmitter but the USB reciptical  input is still most fragile no matter what kind of input device is used, including  magnetic USB devices. They break internally regardless.

The two G10 units I had returned were not dropped or abused in any way.

It is not up to the consumer to purchase at our expense, a remedy for a design engineering flaw, but up to the manufacturer to apply such expense or a "FIX" to future shipments of the G10.

[robdjeff]

Ditto. My unit failed within a week, the first time I tried to play live without. Appears to be exactly the same fault.

 

Nothing in the blurb for this product say it is delicate and should not be used in a live environment. Why the hell would I want a wireless link to play in my bedroom?

 

Full refund will be requested.

 

 

[robdjeff]

Mine has broken within a week or so. First attempt to use it live. Very, very poor. I will be seeking a full refund, it is not fit for the purpose - why would you buy a wireless relay to do anything but play live?

[coffeeking]

Why the hell would I want a wireless link to play in my bedroom?

 

 

 

Exactly.

[jbuhajla]

I use my G10 around the house, live, all the time. It's all about personal preference. 

[Sacco_Belmonte]

i got it cause is better in the studio. There is no sound loss and it killed any slight hum that was there on some.

[MusicLaw]

One less cord to be in the way. Two less, when I power the Receiver base using a USB battery pack!

[nielshorskjaer]

My puny USB connection became unstable after a few weeks, though I had been very gentle with it. I decided to get a replacement unit while under warranty instead of opening it up to modify it. When I received the replacement, first thing I did was to insert cable (gently) assuring there was full contact and then... Hot glue on the plug and a piece of gaffa securing the cable - less prone to wiggling. Not pretty, but effective. The G10 is too good an item, too bad with the lame Micro-USB soldered directly to the PCB. Really bad design.

[bcinbergen]

I was suspect about the input connector when I received my G10 in July.

 

I have been treating it gently but last week on a gig the connector came loose 2x's and suddenly I was out of the mix.

 

Kind of hard not to notice in a trio.

 

Afterward the leader told me I need to have my equipment up to par if he was going to hire me in the future.

 

How unfortunate that this crappy mini plug is going to cost me work.

 

All my equipment is top notch and vintage equipment is serviced when used on gigs.

 

I really like this unit and was an early purchaser and waited for it to come available.  I just hope that they fix this issue in gen 2 and offer some type of trade to us early adopters.

 

[a2dconverterguy]

Somebody had to do it!

 

I installed a 9V to 5V DC converter inside the G10 receiver housing with a 2.1mm DC jack on the outside for powering via a pedal power supply....

 

 

 

 

The receiver draws 110mA @ 9VDC

 

Please let me know if you have any questions

 

seeya

 

Joe

[MusicLaw]

Awesome Mod!!

[ClayDots]

Somebody had to do it!

 

I installed a 9V to 5V DC converter inside the G10 receiver housing with a 2.1mm DC jack on the outside for powering via a pedal power supply....

 

 

 

 

The receiver draws 110mA @ 9VDC

 

Please let me know if you have any questions

 

seeya

 

Joe

The problem is definitely the USB connector. 5 surface mount pads mean nothing for mechanical support and the shroud is through hole soldered with four tiny tabs and easily pulled out, especially if cold soldered in production.

 

Where did you put the 5V on the board?

 

Thanks.

[coffeeking]

Somebody had to do it!

 

I installed a 9V to 5V DC converter inside the G10 receiver housing with a 2.1mm DC jack on the outside for powering via a pedal power supply....

 

 

 

 

 

 

The receiver draws 110mA @ 9VDC

 

 

 

 

9V to 5V DC converter

So did you make that whole panel on the LHS of the image yourself or did you buy it off the shelf like that?

If so where can we buy it from?

If we’re based somewhere else in the world (With different voltage types etc) will it need to be different in any way?

 

Why did you do this? Is this your unit or did someone give it to you broken to fix in the manner? Was it out of warranty?

 

Also does anyone know when the “USB breaks†on these, just exactly what is breaking?

Just the USB connector or something further inside?

 

Excellent job by the way.

[a2dconverterguy]

Further to my post...

 

If you search for the following on fleabay you should get a hit on the DC converter....

 

"Step Down Power Module DC-DC 3A 9V/12V/24V to 5V USB 2A Precise Vehicle Charger"

 

 

I un-soldered the USB connector on the DC converter so that I could hardwire the 5VDC to the G10 receiver.

 

The DC Converter's 5VDC output is wired in parallel with the 100uF capacitor on the G10 Receiver... (Since this is a SMD cap, there is not much of a pad to solder to, so, you need to be careful and check to ensure there are no shorts before you power up.)

 

For the 2.1mm jack I drilled a 5/16" hole below the existing USB port. The Negative Wire from the converter goes to the center pin of the DC jack.

 

The DC converter is attached to the inside of the receiver with 3M double-sided tape.

 

This is not a sanctioned mod and will void your G10 warranty... I can't be responsible for any damage  :( 

 

seeya

 

Joe

[coffeeking]

Great mod, unfortunately this is beyond my capabilities.

Great work though, Im sure some folk will have a go and succeed. 

[ClayDots]

Further to my post...

 

If you search for the following on fleabay you should get a hit on the DC converter....

 

"Step Down Power Module DC-DC 3A 9V/12V/24V to 5V USB 2A Precise Vehicle Charger"

 

 

I un-soldered the USB connector on the DC converter so that I could hardwire the 5VDC to the G10 receiver.

 

The DC Converter's 5VDC output is wired in parallel with the 100uF capacitor on the G10 Receiver... (Since this is a SMD cap, there is not much of a pad to solder to, so, you need to be careful and check to ensure there are no shorts before you power up.)

 

For the 2.1mm jack I drilled a 5/16" hole below the existing USB port. The Negative Wire from the converter goes to the center pin of the DC jack.

 

The DC converter is attached to the inside of the receiver with 3M double-sided tape.

 

This is not a sanctioned mod and will void your G10 warranty... I can't be responsible for any damage :(

 

seeya

 

Joe

Why not just parallel across the G10's USB 5 volts from the added jack and use a 5V 2A supply? Just don't want to plug in the USB supply too, but who would? ... or plug it up with epoxy. This eliminates the 9-5 converter. Is it 'cause pedals are mostly 9V and using one's existing 9V supply is attractive? This is just the jack and wires.

[jbuhajla]

Nice job!

[a2dconverterguy]

Why not just parallel across the G10's USB 5 volts from the added jack and use a 5V 2A supply? Just don't want to plug in the USB supply too, but who would? ... or plug it up with epoxy. This eliminates the 9-5 converter. Is it 'cause pedals are mostly 9V and using one's existing 9V supply is attractive? This is just the jack and wires.

 

The DC converter makes it easy because Pedal-board power supplies are 9VDC  :)

[aardvarkfingers]

My USB Port failed in a few months also.  The input is flimsy.

[dbagchee]

Somebody had to do it!

 

I installed a 9V to 5V DC converter inside the G10 receiver housing with a 2.1mm DC jack on the outside for powering via a pedal power supply....

 

 

 

 

The receiver draws 110mA @ 9VDC

 

Please let me know if you have any questions

 

seeya

 

Joe

Have you tried this on a daisy chain (onespot etc?) - just wondering if it generates noise or has to have isolated power.

[dbagchee]

I ordered these two items which will hopefully provide the same result as that board:

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00RWY32A2/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00QJAW9F4/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=3VN1CAY0GAB&coliid=I5B6LSZKP0A2J

 

It will take a while to arrive but I'll report back with results.

[coffeeking]

I ordered these two items which will hopefully provide the same result as that board:

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00RWY32A2/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00QJAW9F4/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=3VN1CAY0GAB&coliid=I5B6LSZKP0A2J

 

It will take a while to arrive but I'll report back with results.

 

You're still going to have that God awful micro USB sticking out the back though, which is why this unit breaks and what this post is about.

Unless your going to hard wire it? If so please advise and provide pics.

[dbagchee]

 

You're still going to have that God awful micro USB sticking out the back though, which is why this unit breaks and what this post is about.

Unless your going to hard wire it? If so please advise and provide pics.

 

 

I'm not going to hardwire it as I don't want to mod my unit while it is still under warranty. I figure this solution will at least minimize the amount of plugging/unplugging of the usb since it will be stationary on my board with the added benefit of being able to power it from a common power supply.

[kazen]

Dadgummit... Mine just broke and out of warranty, had it for 9 months. Gigged 4 times...  Anybody know how to open the case?

[kazen]

Here's the design flaw.  Four little pins bear all the load from connecting & unconnecting... 

[MusicLaw]

Kazen, care to share how you opened the case?

[talonmm]

I'd like to share my experience on upgrading the base unit from the usb jack to a 9 volt solution.  Joe's documentation and solution works 100% well!

 

I have three units - 2 at home that are never touched and should hold up, and one unit on a peddleboard that broke after I gigged with it.  First off, I ordered the 9v to 5v step down on ebay and the recommended female dc plug. 

 

The boards cost about 99 cents each on ebay so I ordered lots of extras in case I screwed up.  All these parts are from China and the person who did the mod for me tested the step down board and could not believe how well it worked (producing an exact flow of 5 volts which he thought was astounding!)

 

First off, I was going to send the item to Joe, who I know would have done a phenomenal  job (and he has the parts, you don't need to send them to him).  However, my bass player insisted I give the project to her boyfriend who is an electrical engineer and does these kinds of repairs all the time.  Reluctantly, I had to tell Joe I was not sending him the project and he was such a gentleman.  He was fine with it and told me If I had any questions or problems, I could contact him.

 

So I printed out the notes from this forum and went to see the local electrical guy.  The screw was stripped on the until, thanks to my other guitarist in the band who took the unit home to see if the plug could be put back in place earlier, but it turned out to be broken.

 

It took the engineer forever to open the unit.  The single screw is under the label on the bottom.  eventually he had to drill out the screw.  So my unit is no longer 100 % and at this point in the evening I wished I sent the unit to Joe.

 

However, the soldering and upgrade took less time than opening the unit.  I know nothing about electronics, but if you are going to do this project, you will need a huge magnifying device and some nifty soldering tools as this is not a simple soldering job.  It is a tough and small soldering job.

 

Now that the upgrade is done, the unit is working 100% and I am extremely confident it will hold up! 

 

Here's an added bonus about that 99 cent board.  it can handle 9v, 12v (I think), and 18v adapters and will automatically step them down to the needed 5v.  When I went through my stash of old orphan power adapters, the smallest one I found was an 18v and because it was smaller than my others, it fit nicely on my peddleboard power system.  So just because you are buying a 9v step down, you have additional options with voltage.

 

Joe was awesome and I would recommend him in a heart beat if this project is beyond anyone's knowledge or ability.

[jbuhajla]

Dadgummit... Mine just broke and out of warranty, had it for 9 months. Gigged 4 times...  Anybody know how to open the case?

Should be covered for a year from Line 6 if you registered it, 2 years if you bought it from Sweetwater. 

[Lee7uk]

This was the mod I had done so I could power my G10 from a standard 9v pedalboard power supply without damaging the G10. And as the unit was in situ and wasn't going to be moved I didn't feel it necessary to modify the USB input.

 

http://line6.com/support/topic/21552-how-to-power-g10-from-a-standard-pedal-board/

[talonmm]

This was the mod I had done so I could power my G10 from a standard 9v pedalboard power supply without damaging the G10. And as the unit was in situ and wasn't going to be moved I didn't feel it necessary to modify the USB input.

 

http://line6.com/support/topic/21552-how-to-power-g10-from-a-standard-pedal-board/

 

very clever design solution, but someday if the wind blows and your ios female plug gets pushed in or broken like the rest of ours did (and yes, it could happen easily someday, so never say never) you may want to do the modification shown above.  The modification internally is a more solid solution.

[Lee7uk]

very clever design solution, but someday if the wind blows and your ios female plug gets pushed in or broken like the rest of ours did (and yes, it could happen easily someday, so never say never) you may want to do the modification shown above.  The modification internally is a more solid solution.

If that does happen it will not be the end of the world, I will just my tech to hardwire it. As this unit doesn't move, whereas my other G10 that I use for bass may end up having a similar mod done to replace the USB input, but until then I will wait until it fails before modding. Have plenty of guitar cables in my case in the event of a failure, so no big deal. :)

[coffeeking]

Its funny how this isnt a problem for people until it happens, then its the worst thing in the world :)

I can assure you that 100% of these units will fail eventually due to this exact issue. It doesnt matter if you never touch it, it will happen one day, when you least want it to.

[jbuhajla]

Its funny how this isnt a problem for people until it happens, then its the worst thing in the world :) I can assure you that 100% of these units will fail eventually due to this exact issue. It doesnt matter if you never touch it, it will happen one day, when you least want it to.

Yes, most likely. That's why you need to have a backup cable laying there by your wireless unit (no matter what wireless unit you have) for when it does fail. 

[Lee7uk]

Its funny how this isnt a problem for people until it happens, then its the worst thing in the world :) I can assure you that 100% of these units will fail eventually due to this exact issue. It doesnt matter if you never touch it, it will happen one day, when you least want it to.

It definitely isn't a problem for me and most certainly wouldn't be the worst thing in the world if it was to fail, which I am sure it will considering the price point. If you want something that is bullet proof or at least built for everyday touring, Sennheiser or Shure is the way to go, but you will pay a great deal more for that build quality. :)