Stereo Speaker for Helix

[baggas]

Used my Helix in a band setting last night for the first time, running XLRs into the PA.

I was happy enough with the sound (through IEM), however my co-guitarist really missed the presence of my amps on stage. The sound coming through the fileback wedges just didn't cut it for him. I also felt slightly frustrated at having to wait for the sound-guy to be able to hear my guitar.

 

So what I think I need is a small-medium stereo FRFR speaker to use on stage (eg use 1/4 outputs to there and XLRs to PA), and also at home when practicing and creating my presets. Currently using headphones/IEMs at home which is fine but don't really want to do that for hours on end.

 

Can anyone suggest an affordable speaker of this type?

I'd rather not get two separate powered speakers or something too large, as portability is one of the reasons I got the Helix in the first place. Perhaps a 2x10 powered stereo FRFR cab would be perfect.

 

The Gemini 2 is the closest thing I have found so far to what I want, but it is a fair bit larger than I would prefer and about double what I would like to pay. http://missionengineering.com/?product=gemini-2

 

Would love to hear if anyone knows of any alternatives?

 

[rvroberts]

I'm using a pair of Behringer B112 boxes.  They are light and can kick a hell of a lot of level.  I don't feed them a huge amount of bottom or top - but that seems good for stage sound and seems fine for FOH too.  I think you'd get away with 10s too. Yamaha do some.  Light and cost effective. I expect you can hire some to try out - which I would definitely be doing before I spend dollars. Gives you and the rest of the band the amp experience and makes you independant of the sound guy.  I think with a big enough rig and your own guy doing foldback mix, you could forget your own system, but in my world I want my own control.

Not totally convinced you got to pay over $1000 for a FRFR box - a bit of EQ goes a long way! Give them a go - anyone else had the pleasure of comparing the high end of FRFR with just reasonable PA boxes with some intelligent EQ?  I'm really wanting to see some well done comparisons - I'm getting a good stage sound I think. FOH is happy too.  But I'll be convinced by some solid practical experience................

I've not found a great deal of success though doing presets at home - at least not without some modification in a band setting - you just hear differently a volume and then there's the need to fit with and find your space with the rest of the band.

[ncockerill]

You might want to think about giving a used (or new) L2t/L2m or L3t/L3m an audition.  Definitely less $$ than the Mission Gemini's and they sound great. I've heard really good things about the Friedman ASM-12 as well, though I can't speak to that personally.  

[roscoe5]

...however my co-guitarist really missed the presence of my amps on stage. The sound coming through the fileback wedges just didn't cut it for him. I also felt slightly frustrated at having to wait for the sound-guy to be able to hear my guitar.

 

What kind of amp did you previously use?

[GeeTah]

I mortgaged my house and pulled the trigger on a Mission Gemini 2 (G2). Used it live Saturday night for the first time and have to say that I don't regret spending the money now. Caught a deal on condition A open box at Musicians Friend and that softened the blow somewhat. It did include the 45 day return option, so it was worth checking out. So very happy I did. I'll be selling other stuff now, because IMHO the G2 is "the" amp for Helix.

 

I understand that your question specifically asks for alternatives to the G2. There are several. I agree totally with ncockerill above that the L2t/m's are great sounding but they are mono - you can send a summed stereo signal to one of those (analog connect or L6 Link both work out of Helix), but you don't get any separation. I had one for about a week and returned it. Again - it sounded EXCELLENT - just mono.

 

I also tried a pair of Tech 21 Power Engine 60's and they were great too - lightweight and durable. Our band is still using some of those. They are midrange dominant but are affordable - made in the USA. I also have used twin DT25's and they are pretty good, but don't do acoustic voicing well.

 

But again, after all the surfing, trying every FRFR solution I could get my hands on with my Helix, I can't say enough good things about the Gemini 2. Bulky size? Yes... Expensive? Yes. But, all tolled it's the best sounding FRFR stage volume solution I've found for the Helix. The Mission support team is also awesome.

 

Good luck and hope this helped.

 

Bradley

[taylorbeats]

Alto truesonic 212.  I have a pair, very light, plenty of power, 1100 watts peak, couldn't be happier.  Run the keyboard through the other channel on one and vocal monitor on the other alto.  Also has a line out to go to FOH. Probably $600 or less for the pair at GC if you talk to them nicely.

[zooey]

Pair of Alesis Alpha 112s here, very much like the Altos above. Reasonably light, decent sounding, fairly loud (though I haven't tried them with a live drummer yet), under $400 for the pair on eBay a while ago.

 

I'd love to try the Center Point Spacestation, but never have, you should if you think it might make sense for you. Probably not as loud as some other solutions.

[ricstudioc]

Alto TS10's here - very happy with them for the Helix.  Little light in the bottom for my keyboards (I run another pair there) but I find them to be very punchy and responsive in the guitar freqs. 

[baggas]

 

But again, after all the surfing, trying every FRFR solution I could get my hands on with my Helix, I can't say enough good things about the Gemini 2. Bulky size? Yes... Expensive? Yes. But, all tolled it's the best sounding FRFR stage volume solution I've found for the Helix. The Mission support team is also awesome.

 

 

Thanks for the feedback. I agree the G2 looks almost perfect for my needs.

My previous amps were a pair of Vox AC15 and TB18. Part of the appeal of the Helix is lugging less gear around so I don't really want a pair of speakers. The G2 is a good compromise for stage and home use.

 

The cost of the G2 is high but based on your comments it might be worth paying. I have a bigger problem though... so far I can't find anywhere that sells it in Australia, and shipping such a large item from the US is prohibitive. Will keep looking though, and also keep considering alternatives.

[GeeTah]

The cost of the G2 is high but based on your comments it might be worth paying. I have a bigger problem though... so far I can't find anywhere that sells it in Australia, and shipping such a large item from the US is prohibitive. Will keep looking though, and also keep considering alternatives.

 

You might reach out to Mission Engineering via email or phone - they're great to work with and surely they can figure out some way to get a G2 to you Down Under. Good luck!!!!!

[baggas]

It seems I can order on the ME website and get it shipped here, but will be closer to $3000 AUD by the time it arrives, including tax. I've found one Aussie site offering it for two grand but they are out of stock. Have messaged them to see if they are expecting more.

[glideman]

I'm actually using a single 15" Seismic Audio powered coaxial monitor that has bass and treble controls for rough tweaking on the fly if needed. Usually run mine flat, though. I promise you they'll hear you through it. It's been used more than my Friedman ASM-12 has out live.

[glideman]

It's really compact and light, too!

[Rewolf48]

Roland Street Cube EX ?

[guitarphil11]

I'm getting the TS210 today I'll report back, decided to go with the 10 inch speaker after some research on the forum I did.  I'm also going to be mainly using this inside and not gigging with it.

[baggas]

Roland Street Cube EX ?

 

This is an interesting choice. Certainly the price point is far more attractive and I can find one in my city without too much trouble.

Anyone have much experience with it with the Helix? If I use it at home to setup my presets is that going to give me an accurate representation of the sound the Helix is going to pump out to the PA as well?

 

I'm also looking at a pair of Alto TS210 but less keen on having to carry a pair of speakers around. The Roland certainly much more portable if the sound is comparable.

 

My final option is a pair of studio monitors like the JBL LSR305 - should give me reasonable sound at home but probably useless on stage I'm guessing.

 

Could the Roland be the best compromise in terms of price, sound, and portability?

 

 

[baggas]

Appreciate the advice here. It has been useful for guiding my thought process on what to do.

 

What I have realised is that stereo is not important for my on-stage speaker anyway (although I am running stereo outputs to the PA system). So I will use a single FRFR monitor - probably the Alto TS210 which I can get at a store in my city.

 

I do need stereo in my home environment for programming my presets. I don't think using headphones (even good quality ones) is adequate. But two Alto TS210s are probably a bit large and loud for my space at home. Hence I will get a pair of reasonable powered studio monitors for that purpose (maybe JBL or Yamaha).

 

So a single Alto TS210 or similar, and a pair of studio monitors, should satisfy my needs nicely. And all for under $1000AUD, which is far better than over two thousand for the Gemini2 that I was originally looking at.

[zooey]

I'd love to try the Center Point Spacestation

Kind of surprised this didn't spark any interest. Within your budget I think (actually no clue about AUD), really cool stereo projection from what folks say. Read the reviews.

[roscoe5]

Kind of surprised this didn't spark any interest. Within your budget I think (actually no clue about AUD), really cool stereo projection from what folks say. Read the reviews.

 

I think ur2funky here has one and said he didn't care for it at louder volumes.  I believe he got a Matrix FR10 too.

 

Maybe Matrix would ship to AU reasonably.  The Matrix FR10 and FR12 are $679 and $749 respectively.  Super light too.

 

The FR10's are 12" x 12" x 20.5" and 21 lbs, about like large studio monitors.  You could get one FR10 now and one later to have stereo at home.

 

http://usa.matrixamplification.com/speakers/fr10.html

 

 

[cruisinon2]

I do need stereo in my home environment for programming my presets. I don't think using headphones (even good quality ones) is adequate. Hence I will get a pair of reasonable powered studio monitors for that purpose (maybe JBL or Yamaha).

 

Either choice should suit your needs just fine...and I'd argue that a pair of reasonably flat-response headphones work quite well for creating patches. In fact, you might find that decent cans will get you closer to what you're hearing through the PA than a pair of monitors will. All depends on the various units in question. Either way, there will always be some subtle differences you'll need to account for, no matter what you choose.

[guitarphil11]

So I got my TS210 today.  Is there any special way I need to set it up?  I have it right now using a 1/4" mono out from my helix into the speaker.  Is there anything that should be adjusted for best sound quality or is XLR out better to use?  I'm still figuring stuff out on the unit, thanks

[Rewolf48]

This is an interesting choice. Certainly the price point is far more attractive and I can find one in my city without too much trouble.

Anyone have much experience with it with the Helix? If I use it at home to setup my presets is that going to give me an accurate representation of the sound the Helix is going to pump out to the PA as well?

 

Not personal experience (I have 2 StageSource L2t) but my suggestion was based on reading this thread:

 

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/cube-street-ex-vs-alto-ts110-for-helix.1699138/

[Joepeggio]

I have 2 Alto TS110a's. I find them a little punchy in the low mids and upper bass. Early on I built patches without any global eq and found my tone thin and brittle when I went to the PA. My guess is because i had them on the floor standing upright and side by side. Placing them as a wedge and spaced a little helped. As mentioned in other threads, putting them on poles would be most accurate.

 

I global eq'd them to better match my Mackie MR8'S on stands. Its a good 7db cut in the 200 to 400 range and some other tweeks as well.

 

The 210 may be better, so my settings will probibly not work.

 

I find no difference using xlr or 1/4. I use xlr to my Altos and 1/4 to house PA. This forces me to use a DI, if necessary, eliminating any phantom power issues and noisy ground loops.

[ColonelForbin]

I had a Firehawk1500 for a while, used it with Helix. Sounded awesome! But ended up too heavy for me to move it around much. Been using L2t and L3m pairs, L3 at home, L2 at practice spot. Lately been putting the L2t's on speaker stands, and using a DT25 for my guitar monitor when we jam. Just did that last night actually!

 

While none of that is what you really are looking for, I second the previous post about getting a pair of L2m or L2t. They can be carried with one hand each. The L3 are wayyyy heavier. The L2 also sound good in mono; run stereo XLR to the PA and use the L6link to the L2.

 

Though, DT25 is good for that too- blank all the DT models and set up the power config using MIDi with DtEdit. It's definitely not FRFR but that's actually good in terms of sounding more like an amp on stage. You can yet used or sale DT25's for pretty affordable $$ these days.

 

Anyway, I don't do anything special with patches; mostly use Glenn's presets and just got the Fremen pack. Line6link to the DT25, XLR to the PA/mixer. All of those patches sound great to the DT25 like that! I haven't gotten around to using MIDI to control the DT with Helix, but it's ridiculously easy and they probably made a template for it.

 

Basically, Helix sounds good through any of those speakers; so in terms of getting your stage tones for your band, and for you to hear yourself independent of your in-ears, a simple solutions would be, you could try running 1/4" from Helix to the fx return / poweramp in on a 1x12 tube amp combo! (or two if you want stereo)

 

Fender hot rod or whatever you might already have on hand? Primarily not be heavy-duty in weight!

 

I just kept messing up my back trying to lift the FH1500; though the sound was killer. I would like to check out that Mission Gemini you mentioned; I think that a notable difference between the Mission and the Firehawk1500- the FH1500 has one 12" center speaker; the Mission (stereo) model has two 12" speakers?

 

I don't know how much you will really perceive the stereo imaging of either of those monitors with a full band around it?

 

I had the FH1500 Helix pair cranked up with drums, bass and a 40w Fender tweed. When we were all playing, my sound tended to be a factor of louder/ not quite loud enough.

 

Whereas with Helix to DT25, I can't even turn the DT up to 5; 3 or 4 is wayyy loud. When you bypass the DT preamps, it just cranks the Helix patch through whatever topo, class A / A/B, and pentode or triode setting you choose. Way cool. The combo is light; around the same weight as an L2t or L2m. The DT25 head is even lighter; you could use whatever cab you want then!

 

Anyway, sorry for the tangent from the thread! Hope you find something loud and awesome that sounds stellar and weighs little.

 

Cheers!

[baggas]

Thanks for all your help guys.

 

I ended up going with the combination I settled on above :

- a pair of JBL LSR305 studio monitors for home 

- a single Alto TS210 for stage

 

On stage today I ran stereo XLRs to the PA, and a mono out to the TS210 on stage. My co-guitarist was very pleased with the on-stage sound, and the PA sound was excellent. Already got some of my pedals/amp friends taking the Helix very seriously now - got some very positive comments  :)

 

And I'm loving the sound I'm getting through the JBLs at home. With the Helix, I'm already inspired to spend so much more time playing guitar than I ever did with my huge pedalboard/amps setup.

[guitarphil11]

Thanks for all your help guys.

 

I ended up going with the combination I settled on above :

- a pair of JBL LSR305 studio monitors for home 

- a single Alto TS210 for stage

 

On stage today I ran stereo XLRs to the PA, and a mono out to the TS210 on stage. My co-guitarist was very pleased with the on-stage sound, and the PA sound was excellent. Already got some of my pedals/amp friends taking the Helix very seriously now - got some very positive comments   :)

 

And I'm loving the sound I'm getting through the JBLs at home. With the Helix, I'm already inspired to spend so much more time playing guitar than I ever did with my huge pedalboard/amps setup.

Any special settings or EQ's you can share for the ts210 that you like?  I haven't played this much on guitar since getting my helix last week in a loooong time.

[baggas]

Any special settings or EQ's you can share for the ts210 that you like?  I haven't played this much on guitar since getting my helix last week in a loooong time.

No I'm setting my Helix up using the JBL monitors at home to hopefully achieve good PA sound on stage. The TS210 I just plugged in mono with a guitar cable and set the volume and that's it. But it still sounded pretty phenomenal!

 

Thus far I haven't really even delved into EQ settings very much. For the most part I've been able to get nice tone just playing with the controls for the Amps/Cabs. Possibly the most useful adjustment I have found to get sounds I like is to play around with different Mics and mic settings. Also adjusting the high pass filter can be helpful.

 

When I get more time I'll start exploring other EQ options and downloading presets, IRs etc. But I'm pretty happy with what I've achieved so far without needing to go in that direction yet.

[WickedFinger]

I have both a pair of fullrange EV 15" speakers and a custom 4x12 stereo wtred with Eminence Man O war 12s. I love that guitar cab and it kills with the Helix rig or anything I have used with it. Nothing quite has the power and punch of the Eminence cab, not even the full range EV 15"s. I use both for different things bu my main guitar rig uses the 4x12. 

[WickedFinger]

You asked about "affordable" visit over to zZounds.com (not affiliated) they offer a usual 4 payment no qual, no music card, credit approval thing and often specials on 6 to 12 monthly payments with no finance charge on some gear. Just FYI. 

[baggas]

You asked about "affordable" visit over to zZounds.com (not affiliated) they offer a usual 4 payment no qual, no music card, credit approval thing and often specials on 6 to 12 monthly payments with no finance charge on some gear. Just FYI. 

Unfortunately this site requires a US postal address and Social Security number to do these kind of payment plans. Not much use to those of us in the rest of the world (otherwise there's a nice guitar on there I'm seriously tempted by  :) )