Greek Bouzouki model at some future Update??

[zrkrlk]

Hi everyone, especially line 6 menadzment...

Greek Bouzouki   is represented very much in east europe and asia, and i am sure there is a lot of line6-variax  users  who would like to have bouzouki model  on their Variax...

 

Maybe we can expect this model with some new updates? 

 

[cruisinon2]

I hate to rain on your parade, but I'd happily bet every cent I have that the sun will go nova before there's a bouzouki model in the Variax...

[clay-man]

Even with an ideascale post, I highly doubt this would be added. Variax's memory is already practically a the brim with the current firmware's size, and adding more models might literally be impossible, if not even one can be added.

 

Since the memory hardware on the Variax is the limitation here, that means it's impossible to upgrade, unless you guys honestly want to do a "Variax Standard X" or "JTV X" routine and buy new guitars with bigger memory, which is retarded in the concept of a guitar. 

 

If they honestly tried to upgrade the Variax hardware, we should just have a next gen of Variaxes in general.

[Charlie_Watt]

Variax has not changed the models offered for a decade.  They are not going to start now.

[zrkrlk]

Even with an ideascale post, I highly doubt this would be added. Variax's memory is already practically a the brim with the current firmware's size, and adding more models might literally be impossible, if not even one can be added.

 

Since the memory hardware on the Variax is the limitation here, that means it's impossible to upgrade, unless you guys honestly want to do a "Variax Standard X" or "JTV X" routine and buy new guitars with bigger memory, which is retarded in the concept of a guitar. 

 

If they honestly tried to upgrade the Variax hardware, we should just have a next gen of Variaxes in general.

There is twoo custom banks....maybe one of them can be replaced with new models...

[zrkrlk]

I hate to rain on your parade, but I'd happily bet every cent I have that the sun will go nova before there's a bouzouki model in the Variax...

I'm not too optimistic :-)

[clay-man]

There is twoo custom banks....maybe one of them can be replaced with new models...

 

You're not listening. Custom banks are just custom patches you made in workbench. A patch is a bunch of variables that uses the model data to make up the guitar.

When you select a Les Paul for example, it's using the Les Paul body data, and pickup data in the Variax, which is what is taking up flash memory. 

With all the bodies and pickups modeled, it takes up a lot of space.

 

A patch is separate from the modeling programming/data, and is just instructions/variables for the Variax to use the modeling in a certain setup.

 

What you're asking would need more modeling data, not another preset/patch. They'd need to model the guitar which would take up a nice amount of room, and they don't even have that room in the first place, which is my argument.

 

 

So basically, there's barely any memory, if any at all, to add new models, and the model you're asking for will need memory to be added on.

 

Basically they'd need to remove things to add things, and that's probably not going to happen.

 

The only new model they ever added was the JTV 89 model. That was just 1 model.

[clay-man]

Also keep in mind that the Variax is going to have things that will have the broadest appeal. I've never heard of that instrument until you brought it up.

The Variax will not ultimately cover every single fretted string instrument to exist, it's not going to happen.

 

The best thing to do is to make a custom patch in workbench, but sadly, for acoustic sounds, this is very limited, and practically ONLY limited, to the 5 acoustic and 5 resonator models in the first place, since there's not any real variables you can tweak on the acoustic models compared to the electric models.

[cruisinon2]

Also keep in mind that the Variax is going to have things that will have the broadest appeal. I've never heard of that instrument until you brought it up.

The Variax will not ultimately cover every single fretted string instrument to exist, it's not going to happen.

 

Well I won't rest until there's a ukulele model. How else am I supposed to get my Tiny Tim tribute band off the ground? ;)

[zrkrlk]

Also keep in mind that the Variax is going to have things that will have the broadest appeal. I've never heard of that instrument until you brought it up.

The Variax will not ultimately cover every single fretted string instrument to exist, it's not going to happen.

 

The best thing to do is to make a custom patch in workbench, but sadly, for acoustic sounds, this is very limited, and practically ONLY limited, to the 5 acoustic and 5 resonator models in the first place, since there's not any real variables you can tweak on the acoustic models compared to the electric models.

Ok ok , i completely understand. Custom patches are combination-variation of existing sounds, like you say this is just instructions/variables for the Variax to use the modeling in a certain setup.

I already have some bouzouki patch based on 12 acoustic- reso5 tricone resonator.

Reso5 have a similar body resonant, and with workbanch an adding some parallel pitch buzouki becomes alive :-)

It is not perfect, but it works fine.

Thanks for replaying and explanation man  :)

[brue58ski]

The answer is..................No.

[Skipernicus]

There seems to be a lot of negativity towards the bouzouki...

I'm interested in a bouzouki, and it doesn't have to be precisely perfect - it just has to be reasonably in tune (top two strings OFF, then GDAD). 

Zrkrlk, I'd be interested in any solution you have found ( and yes, I realize this thread is 2 years old...)

[cruisinon2]

56 minutes ago, Skipernicus said:

There seems to be a lot of negativity towards the bouzouki...

I'm interested in a bouzouki, and it doesn't have to be precisely perfect - it just has to be reasonably in tune (top two strings OFF, then GDAD). 

Zrkrlk, I'd be interested in any solution you have found ( and yes, I realize this thread is 2 years old...)

 

Far be it from me to rain on your bouzouki, but we'll probably see a xylophone or washtub bass model first...

 

To say nothing of the fact that updates/new models have pretty much ceased for the current generation of Variax stuff. 

[psarkissian]

Submit it to Idea Scale,...

- bouzouki 

- mandolin

- balalaika

- nylon classical/Spanish guitar

 

... just some of the submissions to Idea Scale.

 

A number of those get submitted to, and considered by Line 6 people.

They do see that more directly. It's how the Helix series of products was created,... a result of Idea Scale.

 

[ajdroberts]

From a commercial viewpoint it would seem an interesting idea to develop models based on stringed instruments from Asia (and Africa, S America - wherever).

 

You'd have thought that Yamaha, who I think owns Line 6, would have been interested in expanding their customer base and selling more guitars, or whatever instrument they might build these 'new' models into, in markets that use guitars but also have their own traditional instruments - like the sitar of course. 

 

Presuming that they know their business much better than us I would guess that there is no perceived market for such things - which is why we don't have them.

[cruisinon2]

xe3h gi

35 minutes ago, ajdroberts said:

 

 

Presuming that they know their business much better than us I would guess that there is no perceived market for such things - which is why we don't have them.

 

Yup...if I had to guess, I'd say there are probably as many requests for a bouzouki model, as for wind chimes or a duck call. ;)

[ajdroberts]

I'm only a few days into my JTV-59 but it's just occurred to me that whilst I didn't miss a bouzouki I've not seen a Precision or Jazz (or any other) bass guitar amongst the models.

 

Presumably I've missed it or there is a good reason for its omission. I guess alt tuning could do it but I don't think it's there either.

 

????

[silverhead]

40 minutes ago, ajdroberts said:

I'm only a few days into my JTV-59 but it's just occurred to me that whilst I didn't miss a bouzouki I've not seen a Precision or Jazz (or any other) bass guitar amongst the models.

 

Presumably I've missed it or there is a good reason for its omission. I guess alt tuning could do it but I don't think it's there either.

 

????

I downloaded free Variax presets of a P-Bass and other bass guitars from somewhere a long time ago. Can't remember where.  But I do remember that they simply used alternate tuning in an obvious manner. Easy to create in Workbench, experimenting with various body and pickup types.

[psarkissian]

" probably as many requests for a bouzouki model, as for wind chimes or a duck call. "---

Surprisingly enough,... nylon classical/Spanish guitar, bouzouki, balalaika and mandolin come up

rather more often than I would have expected here and in Idea Scale, as obscure as they are.

 

Mandola, shamisen and were part of the old Variax Acoustic guitars back in the day. I guess

there is a resurgent interest in some of those more esoteric instruments again,... what was

old may be becoming new again.

 

Hmmmm,....

 

[klangmaler]

Interesting...

Obscure, esoteric instruments as a new classification for traditional (string) instruments. C'mon... 

[psarkissian]

Esoteric for the US, for the most part, pretty normal and everyday to me. Typically referred to in the US as ethnic instruments,

as they don't always tune to western tone scales. 

 

Bouzouki, mandolin, balalaika, nylon classical/Spanish guitar, Oud, Lute, harp guitars, Asian instruments not used in the old Variax Acoustic guitars,...

... a whole host of instruments could be added. Maybe as an add-on to Workbench HD as an ethnic/traditional instrument custom pack

or something. Maybe submit that to Idea Scale. In Idea Scale, the sky doesn't have to be the limit.

 

[brue58ski]

Let me ask this since you're here psarkissian. I'm not even sure if you are allowed to answer these but here goes. Are there any plans to

 

1)Expand the body types available.

2)Expand the pickup types available.

 

The amp sims often got more amps, etc. but when it comes to the Variax, there was never an expansion of what was originally offered.

I assume the answer is no but you seem to be talking as if they would at least be open to it.

[psarkissian]

Don't really know, since I'm not in engineering or software development. They don't

tell me anything until they need me to fix it.

 

[cruisinon2]

37 minutes ago, brue58ski said:

Let me ask this since you're here psarkissian. I'm not even sure if you are allowed to answer these but here goes. Are there any plans to

 

1)Expand the body types available.

2)Expand the pickup types available.

 

The amp sims often got more amps, etc. but when it comes to the Variax, there was never an expansion of what was originally offered.

I assume the answer is no but you seem to be talking as if they would at least be open to it.

 

It's pure speculation, and I could be wrong, but I'll bet the farm that the current Variax iterations aren't gonna get any more facelifts... it's been years. The old man went out for a pack of smokes, and never came back....;)

 

What I do think we'll see is another generation of Variax stuff. Whether or not the tech will bear any resemblance to what we've got now, is anybody's guess. Ditto for backwards compatibility.

 

It's just like the POD HD series...it wasn't "euthanized", but has most definitely been put out to pasture. Then POOF! Along came Helix. Round and round we go....

[psarkissian]

Helix was a result of Idea Scale.

There's always something brewing here, they just don't tell me what.

 

But yes,... all speculations. Best to wait for official notices from Line 6.

Speculations are like spitting into the wind,... there's a Jim Croce song in there somewhere.

 

 

[cruisinon2]

29 minutes ago, psarkissian said:

Helix was a result of Idea Scale.

There's always something brewing here, they just don't tell me what.

 

 

 

Exactly my point... and Idea Scale is great...but suppose it never existed? The POD would still have been dethroned by something else eventually, regardless.... customer input, or no. That's how this game is played. 

 

29 minutes ago, psarkissian said:

Speculations are like spitting into the wind,...

 

 

 

Maybe, but development cycles are exactly that... cycles. One platform peters out, and something else is introduced to replace it. You don't need a PhD to recognize the same pattern repeating itself time and time again. It's how just how the cookie crumbles... and frankly, it's fine by me. I don't want the same dinosaurs dragged along and kept in production forever.... there's no progress that way. 

[psarkissian]

Agreed. The whole universe is a series of cycles. No reason for us humans to be any different.

 

If Idea Scale never existed, we'd probably set-up a topic here for that in its place,... or something similar.

And some of those real, more off-the-beaten-path variety of string instruments can be an interesting play,

whether real or modeled.

 

[amsdenj]

Pure speculation: but I don’t think the technology of the Variax itself is the issue. Rather I think the limitation is in the process of capturing the models. I don’t know for sure, but I suspect the underlying technology that Variax is based on is Impulse Responses that transform piezo pickup tones into different guitar tones. Its the technology used to capture these IRs that is likely the problem. I’m guessing that’s what hasn’t advanced.

 

That said, my JTV-69S is my goto guitar. I love what I can do with the models that wouldn’t be possible with any other instrument. We should be focusing on what is really unique we can already do instead of just wishing for something shiny and new (but of course I want that too).

 

[brue58ski]

I am very happy with my Variax. I'm just slightly disappointed that, unlike the amp sims, there have never been any additions to the models. Specifically the pickups. I'm definitely sure that that's not going to happen based on the Variax history and the lack of new models of any kind and given how long the latest Variax technology has been around with no updates, let alone new models. Oh well, I'll live. Just curious.

[cruisinon2]

12 hours ago, amsdenj said:

Pure speculation: but I don’t think the technology of the Variax itself is the issue. Rather I think the limitation is in the process of capturing the models.

 

 

I don't know a blessed thing about how the models are created... but if the Variax has a limitation, it's the fact that it relies on piezos. Crosstalk that can affect the alt tunings, the dreaded "plink" that has driven more than a few players insane enough to abandon the guitar altogether, etc. I like mine too, but one of the things I was looking forward to most was drop D tuning with the flick of a switch... but the crosstalk makes it utterly useless with moderate gain and palm muting. 

 

[psarkissian]

Modeling,... there are about eleven different ways to do the math behind modeling. For more info,

Wiki or Google: Karplus-Strong Filters, Digital Waveguides, Physical Modeling and Julius Orion Smith, III.

It's quite the interesting subject.

 

[cruisinon2]

8 minutes ago, psarkissian said:

Modeling,... there are about eleven different ways to do the math behind modeling. For more info,

Wiki or Google: Karplus-Strong Filters, Digital Waveguides, Physical Modeling and Julius Orion Smith, III.

It's quite the interesting subject.

 

 

I'm sure it's fascinating... if you're an engineer. But alas, I  tend to have intense disagreements with anything beyond algebra... I'd have better luck trying to read "The Divine Comedy" in Chinese. 

[arislaf]

On 9/19/2018 at 7:56 PM, Skipernicus said:

There seems to be a lot of negativity towards the bouzouki...

I'm interested in a bouzouki, and it doesn't have to be precisely perfect - it just has to be reasonably in tune (top two strings OFF, then GDAD). 

Zrkrlk, I'd be interested in any solution you have found ( and yes, I realize this thread is 2 years old...)

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=9647.0

[andrikos1]

On 9/19/2018 at 11:56 AM, Skipernicus said:

There seems to be a lot of negativity towards the bouzouki...

I'm interested in a bouzouki, and it doesn't have to be precisely perfect - it just has to be reasonably in tune (top two strings OFF, then GDAD). 

Zrkrlk, I'd be interested in any solution you have found ( and yes, I realize this thread is 2 years old...)

I’d love a bouzouki model too and even if memory is an issue that’s just for loaded instruments. You could easily have a larger bank of instruments on file and load the ones you want via workbench. You could swap out the models that you don’t use for those you do. Third parties could get involved too and you could purchase models of instruments from all over the world.

[psarkissian]

Try using a blank custom patch in Workbench HD and build one, or a close approximation of one.

Also submit to Idea Scale for a future feature.

 

[cruisinon2]

On 4/4/2021 at 11:53 PM, andrikos1 said:

Third parties could get involved too and you could purchase models of instruments from all over the world.

 

Well that would require that Line 6 divulge their proprietary modeling process to everybody plus their weird uncle...you'll sooner find a pearl in a pig's ear...