Helix Native

[bobthedog]

The awful GUI is the only reason I won't pay the 99 for the plugin.

 

At it's most basic it fails as it is absolutely tiny on my 30 inch monitor, it cannot be resized and I have to scroll windows to get to parameters to change them. Madness!

 

Add the ability to resize it, or at least have two sizes one where you don't need to scroll and I will buy it.

[phil_m]

The awful GUI is the only reason I won't pay the 99 for the plugin.

 

At it's most basic it fails as it is absolutely tiny on my 30 inch monitor, it cannot be resized and I have to scroll windows to get to parameters to change them. Madness!

 

Add the ability to resize it, or at least have two sizes one where you don't need to scroll and I will buy it.

 

What resolution is your monitor? I have a 28-inch monitor, and the Native window is pretty much the same size as every other plug-in I use.

[bobthedog]

So you don't have to scroll around to edit params?

 

The resolution of the monitor is only 2560x1600, on OSX.

 

I would love there to be a fix for the size problem with no scrolling, I would buy it in a flash. My main fear is they make the normal editor the same as the plugin!

[phil_m]

So you don't have to scroll around to edit params?

 

The resolution of the monitor is only 2560x1600, on OSX.

 

I would love there to be a fix for the size problem with no scrolling, I would buy it in a flash. My main fear is they make the normal editor the same as the plugin!

 

Yeah, I do have to scroll to see all the parameters on some blocks, but I have to that in the editor as well... I guess I don't find that as problematic as others do.

[jabak]

I totally get what bobthedog and is cristofe is relaying. I'm not a fan of the current UI either. But I do think it's usable. But usable is not good enough in the long run. I dont necessarily want a UI that is cluttered with lookalike amps with nice little knobs and a load of stomps below. Not at all. I dont think that qualifies as being a modern UI.

I expect the UI to improve as we move on. Resize issues should be fixed. Scrollbars should be removed when not necessary (responsive design thank you). Using the mouse scrollwheel when hovering above a parameter should cycle through the value list of the parameter. And much more.

 

So the UI is not perfect but it's a start.

[kjschultz]

I am really liking Helix Native with Logic Pro X but I can't get into settings and don't have the "Gear Button" in the bottom left of the plugin window per the Pilots guide. What am I missing? Is there a stand alone edit window or something? The way I am accessing the plugin window is through a open project with the plugin accessed through an audio track.

[Triryche]

You need to click the Helix Native logo to get to settings. 

Not sure which "gear button" you are referring to.

[kdog]

The Native GUI is borderline unusable on a large monitor, IMHO. It looks okay on my laptop but on my big monitor I cannot read it even with my glasses on sometimes. The black background and general color scheme do not help at all, either. It seriously needs to be completely redone.

 

I do not get why so many GUIs for VSTs seem to be stuck about ten years back in terms of their scalability. Big monitors have been around for years now. If you are using a heavy DAW you likely have not one but multiple really BIG monitors. The ability to resize up and down seems so fundamental that it absolutely stunning so few have any concept of it. Revalver is about the only one I can think of that supports it off hand.

 

Anyway, I consider Helix Native particularly bad given its sticker price because the text is unreadable and on such a minimalist GUI a lot of settings are difficult to discern.

 

It's pretty lacking in a number of areas as a stand alone product, TBH, it feels like the absolute minimum product they could do and still declare victory in implementing the concept for the Helix in VST. If it were a standalone product I am not sure it would actually be a success.

[bobthedog]

The thing Is I guess that it sounds pretty good, I just wanted to do some re-amping and decided to not fluff around with the Helix or Kemper hardware and use the plugins I had instead, which came down to NI Guitar rig, Waves guitar, pod farm and the free UAD guitar sims. None sound as good as the Helix or Kemper.

 

So for me the plugin at $99 should be a no-brainer but I just cannot get over the interface, it upsets me!

[Antmax]

The screen seems a decent size on my monitor which is 1440p. I use it with Image line minihost modular which is for PC and Mac.

[Zakman]

This is how the logic works

They have invested in the design of the product and then they look to see what they can charge for it to get an ROI. There are many ways to do this but Line 6 hasn't worked out the right way in my opinion.

 

Typically in marketing, you have different strategies eg. Attracting new customers or retaining existing new customers

If you want to have market share then you use a low price offering to attract the most amount of people e.g. $99, $149 etc however internally they love their own product so much they think its worth $399 (which by the way is $400 and they kid themselves to think people see it as less)

Believing in your own product to that degree can really harm what you are trying to achieve.

I have a large range of plugins and  you get to a point that they are only worth XX (if you are heavily invested in the product then they are worth more to you otherwise you will spend less)

with so many plugins I just don't need another one so the value of their plugin is diminished, would I like it, sure but not for $400 

 

Now retaining the customer. this becomes harder, I mean you want to reward and look after customers that love your brand right. but you have to watch out for the people that work out the cheapest way to get what they want.

I personally have had 2 variaxes (still have one) A full Vetta 2 rig, two dt25s, one combo, a head and two speaker boxes, I had a dt50.. two big volume wise, original pod, hd500, in return I can pay $400 for their plugin

I don't see any strategy for retaining good customers, no return loyalty.

 

I find myself drifting further away from this brand as they don't look after existing customers unless they have jumped a specific set of hoops.

I didnt buy the hd500x and I am not buying their Helix Floor unit and I am not buying their plugin.

 

Great guitaring comes from the fingers and these systems are often a distraction from the real opportunity to play well.

 

I do like Line 6, I am not an ex bitter customer etc but until they start to recognise the amount of money I have spent with them they can shove their plugins up their rear end ;)

 

That is how you take a customer and lose them.

 

 

 

[PeterHamm]

...If you want to have market share then you use a low price offering to attract the most amount of people e.g. $99, $149 etc however internally they love their own product so much they think its worth $399 (which by the way is $400 and they kid themselves to think people see it as less)...

 

...I find myself drifting further away from this brand as they don't look after existing customers unless they have jumped a specific set of hoops.

I didnt buy the hd500x and I am not buying their Helix Floor unit and I am not buying their plugin...

 

 

I think you're thinking about it wrong, personally.

 

Because maybe with this product, with Native, it's not all about Market Share (Line 6 doesn't seem to have a problem with Market Share I think). They don't have to worry about market share, they're probably selling more Helix and Helix Rack and Helix LT than Kemper and Axe products combined. And that's the only competition in that market segment.

 

I do not think they released Native hoping to sell gobs of them at 400 bucks. I think they thought that LOADS of people would pony up 100 if they already had Helix or Helix Rack, figured they couldn't in fairness offer it at the same price to LT customers (not to mention that might lollipop off Helix and Rack customers), and didn't want to leave out people who didn't want ANY Helix hardware. So, the number of people ponying up 400 for just the software is probably very small, and that's just fine.

 

You didn't buy the HD 500X because as an HD 500 user (I was, too), you weren't the market. They made the "X" because they couldn't get the chip anymore and had to change the configuration go keep making it.

 

You didn't buy Helix Floor because maybe you don't need or want what it has to offer. That's okay, they've sold way more than they thought they would 3 years ago, and (no offense... really...) they don't need one more customer to be successful at that.

 

I get the most out of the multiple signal paths and flexibility and processing in Helix, so I adore it. But I have to say, if I only ever needed one amp sound and a few FX, I would have stayed with HD 500, it was good enough for what I needed, really... It's still a good product.

 

If you don't need or want it, it's all good, but it isn't a size of bad marketing.

[Zakman]

Thanks for the feedback.

I wasn't implying it was bad marketing at all, just that there are two strategies typically used, market share and retention.

I don't work in their office so I don't know their strategies, I was expressing how I am drifting from the brand.

They are very successful company but the reality is that I am less engaged than ever with their brand an a portion of this is the lack of recognition of the amount I spend. 

It's neither right nor wrong.

I genuinely went to have a look at purchasing the Helix Native as a customer of so much Line stuff and then I still have to pay what a new customer (someone who has never purchased anything) in the past pays, that's what I was saying isn't right. There is well over 10k worth of gear in that list but unless you meet these criteria then you will pay full price.

just that, nothing more.

They don't need my money to survive, I don't need the product to play music. It works both ways.

I was just highlighting I don't feel they have it right.

It's not an easy solution but recognition of the amount you spend with them should be part of the equation (which falls under a customer retention strategy) is what I was chiming in on. 

 

As stated, I am not a bitter ex-customer, I not one of those people saying they have lost me, I going to get a Fractal blah blah blah.

I am however a customer, I do have a feeling that Line 6 dont recognise my loyalty to their brand I know that feeling comes from pricing models around such things as Helix Native buy quite clearly stating that I have to pay full price and we dont give any recognition to the fact you currently own 2 amps 2 speaker boxes, the JTV 89 and Hd500.. Nope it means squat.

 

regards 

Zakman

[phil_m]

 

As stated, I am not a bitter ex-customer, I not one of those people saying they have lost me, I going to get a Fractal blah blah blah.

I am however a customer, I do have a feeling that Line 6 dont recognise my loyalty to their brand I know that feeling comes from pricing models around such things as Helix Native buy quite clearly stating that I have to pay full price and we dont give any recognition to the fact you currently own 2 amps 2 speaker boxes, the JTV 89 and Hd500.. Nope it means squat.

 

regards 

Zakman

 

 

I honestly don't understand this perspective... Line 6 is a little unique in the fact that it's selling plug-ins as well as selling hardware, but I don't see other companies in the MI market offering the sort of loyalty discounts you're talking about. I've bought like eight Strymon pedals over the years. They certainly aren't going to offer me a discount on the next one just because of my previous purchases. Companies that solely make plug-ins do often upgrade discounts, but that's really with the goal to convince customers to upgrade who otherwise wouldn't. I mean, if you look at a plug-in like Ozone Izotope, the differences from one version to the next typically aren't huge. It's not like upgrading is getting you an entirely new product.

 

All in all, it simply comes down to the fact that Helix Native is either worth the price to you or it's not. For people who do a lot of recording and re-amping of guitars, $400 is not a bad deal, imo. You have to consider that that price is going to cover the cost of Native for as long as the Helix line is supported and upgraded. So it's not like Line 6 is going to be releasing paid upgrades every year.

[Lachdanan0121]

I honestly don't understand this perspective... Line 6 is a little unique in the fact that it's selling plug-ins as well as selling hardware, but I don't see other companies in the MI market offering the sort of loyalty discounts you're talking about. I've bought like eight Strymon pedals over the years. They certainly aren't going to offer me a discount on the next one just because of my previous purchases. Companies that solely make plug-ins do often upgrade discounts, but that's really with the goal to convince customers to upgrade who otherwise wouldn't. I mean, if you look at a plug-in like Ozone Izotope, the differences from one version to the next typically aren't huge. It's not like upgrading is getting you an entirely new product.

 

All in all, it simply comes down to the fact that Helix Native is either worth the price to you or it's not. For people who do a lot of recording and re-amping of guitars, $400 is not a bad deal, imo. You have to consider that that price is going to cover the cost of Native for as long as the Helix line is supported and upgraded. So it's not like Line 6 is going to be releasing paid upgrades every year.

I will point out that Fabfilter does in fact have an ongoing loyalty discount program.  The more you have bought/registered on your account, the more of a discount you get, up to I think %45 before being stacked with any other sales/discounts they have at the time.

 

Imageline also have free life time updates for registered users. Upgrading with FL Studio, each iteration for free, is more than tiny upgrades. Some are bringing huge upgrades like FLS 11 to FLS12. That was a major upgrade.  FLS 20 (the next one, they are skipping 13 through 19) is going to be an even bigger jump. (they want to make this big for their 20th anniversary) Again for free to registered users. The only DAW company I know that does this.

 

Both are software only though to be fair. They are the exception, not the rule. Just wanted to say there are a couple. That is unless I was miss understanding your post.  That said I am completely happy with my Helix Native/cost, it was only $99 since I had my Helix Rack registered for 13 months, or so.  Even without the discount Helix Native is a great value at $400 for the recording/mixing engineers.

[Zakman]

Hmm I remember why I don't post on forums, Its that the posts don't seem to get the message across.

If I had purchased X, or Y then I get a discount from them on Helix Native, but spend a fortune on the rest of our equipment and this won be covered.

 

Now, as stated, I said I personally don't feel like they have it right. I am not complaining, I am not whinging, I am saying I feel it is not right.

A statement on how I am feeling about it,

I haven't taken it up with Line 6. 

I really don't care as I have so many other plugins to play with and a lollipop load of amps and guitars to play..

however, I was saying that a retention strategy, Line 6 would ideally look at other factors as a good way to keep customers

Nothing more, nothing less.

I will still pick up my Variax and play it through my HD and DT25..

I won't rant and carry on like some people do because I want the world to agree me me.

 

I hope that clears this up.. 

 

[fflbrgst]

Toontrack (EZ Drummer and Superior Drummer) offer good discounts to previous-version owners when they update.

[phil_m]

 

Hmm I remember why I don't post on forums, Its that the posts don't seem to get the message across.

If I had purchased X, or Y then I get a discount from them on Helix Native, but spend a fortune on the rest of our equipment and this won be covered.

 

Now, as stated, I said I personally don't feel like they have it right. I am not complaining, I am not whinging, I am saying I feel it is not right.

A statement on how I am feeling about it,

I haven't taken it up with Line 6. 

I really don't care as I have so many other plugins to play with and a lollipop load of amps and guitars to play..

however, I was saying that a retention strategy, Line 6 would ideally look at other factors as a good way to keep customers

Nothing more, nothing less.

I will still pick up my Variax and play it through my HD and DT25..

I won't rant and carry on like some people do because I want the world to agree me me.

 

I hope that clears this up.. 

 

 

Sounds like complaining and/or whining to me... But that's just my perspective. I mean, what's the point of bringing it up if that's not what you're doing?

 

They're selling something for a certain price, and you think the price is too high, so don't buy it. I think $11 for a beer at a concert is stupid, so I won't pay it. Right or wrong doesn't really come into play.

[Zakman]

yep Phil_m,

I came here to complain in the hope they would read this and suddenly change their position

You crack me up. I actually just said from my point of view it wasn't right, 

I personally dont give a flying f$%k if they change it.

I am not short of a buck, If I wanted it I would buy it.

fflbrgst highlights the point I made, nothing more, nothing less

 

 

On a side note: Thanks for reminding me of why I don't go to forums anymore, Becuase people cant take a bit of feedback without making it into something it isnt

 

You, my friend, have tried to make a mountain out of a molehill.

King of the commenters,

A zealot to the brand,

and of course one of the reasons I am now leaving this forum.

enjoy life

 

[soundog]

Well, that was weird.

[wilkinsi]

I see the hardware has been upgraded to 2.50, which includes the extra effects. I hope they add these to Native. 

[PeterHamm]

I see the hardware has been upgraded to 2.50, which includes the extra effects. I hope they add these to Native. 

 

A new version of Native with all that stuff is, I believe, already released at line6.com. You have to scroll down a bit through the 2.5 announcements. For some reason the Native update is further down.

[wilkinsi]

A new version of Native with all that stuff is, I believe, already released at line6.com. You have to scroll down a bit through the 2.5 announcements. For some reason the Native update is further down.

 

Looked again. I'm not seeing it.

[Triryche]

The filters on the downloads page are being weird.

 

Try selecting All products from the first dropdown. and Helix Native from the second. Or just click the Helix Native 1.1 pic, it will take you to the 1.5 dl.

[PeterHamm]

It's there. It's Native 1.50 not 2.50.

[wilkinsi]

The filters on the downloads page are being weird.

 

Try selecting All products from the first dropdown. and Helix Native from the second. Or just click the Helix Native 1.1 pic, it will take you to the 1.5 dl.

Yep. Got it, thanks :)