MarkJarvis Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 Why does the vdi cable sound different, meaning worse and a bit less responsive than a 1/4 cable? Have you noticed that? I was using the VDI for along time and finally after frustration with harsh almost dry feel tried the 1/4 and it was much smoother! I tried other Ethernet cables sounds the same as the vdi cable...the 1/4 inch guitar jack sounds well more like a guitar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewolf48 Posted July 1, 2018 Share Posted July 1, 2018 VDI is a digital connection with no loss of quality from guitar to effects unit. 1/4” Jack is analogue so there are two additional conversions and you introduce the cable which is never perfect; from an electronic circuit perspective it is an resistive capacitive filter and it will lose high frequencies... the longer the cable the higher the loss. VDI I believe includes a model of a high quality guitar lead with a small amount of loss, but any long or lower quality guitar lead will cut the high end frequencies and potentially add some noise. Use whatever sounds best to you, an EQ with a bit of high end cut will give you the same sort of effect and hum can be dialled in the amp models in helix if you want some of that. Personally the control from the floor unit is invaluable to me so I use VDI all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amsdenj Posted July 1, 2018 Share Posted July 1, 2018 A 1/4" cable will go through extra D2A and A2D conversions and that will have some signal degradation, but likely not much with modern converters. But a more significant effect is the high frequency rolloff that results from high-impedance guitar pickups and the 1/4" cable capacitance. This can really warm up single coil pickups. Hendrix famously used a long, somewhat cheap coil chord because he like the way it warmed up his Strat tone. The amount of high cut increases as the volume control on the guitar is turned down. Some people use bypass caps on their guitar volume controls to eliminate this effect so they can keep a sparkly tone as the guitar is turned down. The cable capacitance also interacts with the guitar tone control and pickups to create a 2nd order tone control that can sound nice as the tone control is turned down, especially for slide. The VDI cable doesn't have these "compromises", so if you want to warm up your guitar tone, you'd need to do it what an EQ block early in the signal chain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkJarvis Posted July 2, 2018 Author Share Posted July 2, 2018 'But a more significant effect is the high frequency rolloff that results from high-impedance guitar pickups and the 1/4" cable capacitance' Yeah that about sums its...response is different as well but the high roll back is appreciated in the 1/4 connection Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roscoe5 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 I wonder if the Helix guitar input impedence still affects Variax VDI the same as 1/4" input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkJarvis Posted July 5, 2018 Author Share Posted July 5, 2018 From what I can tell, the Guitar input is affected by the setting input impedance but the VDI I dont hear anything change...in fact i dont think its supposed to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil_m Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 34 minutes ago, roscoe5 said: I wonder if the Helix guitar input impedence still affects Variax VDI the same as 1/4" input. It doesn't. The variable input Z settings are controlling actual analog circuit in the 1/4" guitar input, and as such, they only affect that input. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roscoe5 Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 Good to know phil_m, thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amsdenj Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 On 7/5/2018 at 5:19 PM, phil_m said: It doesn't. The variable input Z settings are controlling actual analog circuit in the 1/4" guitar input, and as such, they only affect that input. Very good information, thanks Phil. I still think I hear some high end rolloff when backing off the volume control when using the magnetic pickups with the VDI cable. Since the signal from Variax to Helix is digital, why would there still be high end rolloff? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil_m Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 38 minutes ago, amsdenj said: Very good information, thanks Phil. I still think I hear some high end rolloff when backing off the volume control when using the magnetic pickups with the VDI cable. Since the signal from Variax to Helix is digital, why would there still be high end rolloff? If I had to guess, I would bet that the volume pot comes before the A/D converter for magnetic pickups. So in that case, the pickups would still be affected by the impedance of the pot itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hnaline6 Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 I had the same experience as the OP and VDI sounded way too thin to my ears that I switched to 1/4" output a while back. This was on an HD500x. I recently got a Helix and a G10. I have yet to compare VDI vs. the 1/4 output with this new setup. Now I'm wondering whether having the G10 w/ a short patch cable affects the tone in any manner as compared to the VDI , 1/4" cable (15ft length) connections. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil_m Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 14 hours ago, hnaline6 said: I had the same experience as the OP and VDI sounded way too thin to my ears that I switched to 1/4" output a while back. This was on an HD500x. I recently got a Helix and a G10. I have yet to compare VDI vs. the 1/4 output with this new setup. Now I'm wondering whether having the G10 w/ a short patch cable affects the tone in any manner as compared to the VDI , 1/4" cable (15ft length) connections. The G10 has Line 6’s Cable Tone tech built in. It rolls off the high end similar to what you would get with a 10ft cable (Cable Tone affects the 1/4” out only, not the XLR out). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hnaline6 Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 On 7/22/2018 at 2:19 PM, phil_m said: The G10 has Line 6’s Cable Tone tech built in. It rolls off the high end similar to what you would get with a 10ft cable (Cable Tone affects the 1/4” out only, not the XLR out). Thx Phil_M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amsdenj Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 I have been struggling with the VDI vs 1/4" issue for a while now. I use a JTV-69S into Helix. I use VDI almost exclusively for reduced noise, powering the Variax, and MIDI control. In a typical gig, I use mostly the magnetic pickups (SVL Daytona which sound wonderful), and only occasionally use models for open tunings, acoustic and an occasional double coil tone when I don't have time to change guitars. This works great and is very convenient. But I can clearly hear a difference between the VDI and 1/4" for the magnetic pickups. The VDI tone is thiner and brighter. I could address that with EQ. But the biggest issue is the VDI seems to have a lot less sustain, almost like there's a gate in the VDI signal path. This is all magnetic pickups, no models. I've noticed similar lack of sustain in some of the models compared to the magnetic pickups, but have been able to address that by changing the body model the Masonic Plank. Anyone else noticed a difference in sustain between VDI and 1/4"? I can't think of a reason for this other than the A2D converters are in the guitar for VDI and in Helix for 1/4". The other possible difference is the impedance the actual pickups see might be different between VDI and 1/4". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakeman19 Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 It may also depend on what settings you have for the Guitar In-Z input impedance. Impedance values from low to high (22k, 32k, 70k, 90k, 136k, 230k, 1M, or 3.5M) on POD 500x. Not sure what the impedance is default for the VDI input, as the Guitar In-Z setting affects the GUITAR IN input only. Jd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psarkissian Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 Short answer is impedance. VDI impedance is stable between cables. 1/4" cables vary from company to company, so there may be a slight variation in tone color and frequency response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amsdenj Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 23 hours ago, jakeman19 said: It may also depend on what settings you have for the Guitar In-Z input impedance. Impedance values from low to high (22k, 32k, 70k, 90k, 136k, 230k, 1M, or 3.5M) on POD 500x. Not sure what the impedance is default for the VDI input, as the Guitar In-Z setting affects the GUITAR IN input only. Jd Assuming you are referring to Helix, controllable input impedance is only available on the 1/4" guitar input, it has no effect on VDI input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psarkissian Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 " Assuming you are referring to Helix, controllable input impedance is only available on the 1/4" guitar input, it has no effect on VDI input. "--- Correct. That and the slight variations in 1/4" guitar cable impedance between manufacturers, and the tone color may have a slight shift compared to the VDI line. After all, impedance is a function of frequency, it's how filters work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakeman19 Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 On 10/14/2019 at 6:53 PM, amsdenj said: Assuming you are referring to Helix, controllable input impedance is only available on the 1/4" guitar input, it has no effect on VDI input. That was my point, the VDI is a set value and the Guitar Z input is changeable so unless we know what the default # of the VDI impedance one can't make a proper comparison of both ways of connecting the guitar. Jd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amsdenj Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Well, I changed VDI cables, made some updates in my goto patch, and adjustments in the Variax neck, and now my sustain issues seem to be gone. I'm not sure what did it, but I couldn't be happier with the result: JTV-69S (Warmoth neck & SVL Daytona pickups) > Helix Floor > HX Effects (in the loop for extra effect switches) > Powercab 212 is really awesome. Thanks to Chris Buck and Jeff McErlain for great information on effects setup, gain staging and routing. This was very helpful too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffsguitars Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 Members 14 Registered Products:4 Posted 2 minutes ago I finally found a fix for this. On the small sub board attached to the tone control is where the analog/magnetic pickups output connection resides provides an opportunity to add a low pass filter (capacitor) to mitigate those ugly highs associated with the active circuit on all Variax Tyler models as well as the newer Yamaha Variax Standards. I auditioned a variety of cap values and found 470pf to be perfect. My audition formula was to have a (non Variax) guitar plugged into 1/4 inch "Guitar Input" of my Helix with the exact same pickups as my Variax, with the Variax plugged into the CAT 5 input and A/B the two. In the pic, cap #1 is the lowpass filter. Cap #2 is a .1 mf for the tone control instead of the stock .022mf value the was stock in the JTV-69 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psarkissian Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 Remember,... - Modified product coming across my service bench has a 50/50 chance of being returned untouched, no matter how well I know how to deal with it. Line 6 only wants me spending time with Line 6 product. We don't have a custom shop here for mods. - Modifications to product can void any warranties, and is done at own risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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