HX Stomp - Any Chance of a Future Native Discount?

[Kilrahi]

Okay this is one of those "educated guesses" posts since the only ones who can really know are Line 6, but I'm still curious of people's perception.

 

This week Line 6 has their software on sale, including Native. You get a HUGE discount though if you already own the Helix or the Helix LT.

 

There's nothing for the younger brother Effects or Stomp.

 

I was just curious what everyone's opinion was of the chance for a  discount in the future. Do they offer that discount for Helix and HELIX LT people every year?

 

On one hand I get it. Especially with the Effects, it can't do amp modeling anyway, and it's far cheaper. HX Stomp is also quite a bit cheaper (though hardly cheap), but to its credit it can do the amp effects so something like Native makes a bit more sense there. Plus, ANY sort of link to the ecosystem just keeps you loyal and more profitable to Line 6 long term, so it's not like it can't make sense on some level.

 

Anyway, I'm debating in my mind buying Native before the sale ends, but at $270 I'll probably hold off because there is still a reasonable chance I'll get an LT someday - and then I could get Native even cheaper. If the Stomp provided ANY discount though it might make me jump now.

 

That might be a crack dream though.

[foxmeister]

I'd say that I wouldn't be surprised if they did offer a discount to Stomp/Effects users at some point.

Unlike hardware, there's practically no cost of sale on software, so any additional money you get in is effectively gravy.

Obviously, you need to recoup your development and support costs and turn a profit, but it costs very little to give something back to users who have invested elsewhere in your product line, and by doing so you may also tie these users further into your product lines.

[delok25]

600.00usd for HX stomp is not inexpensive. After just getting HX Stomp and then almost immediately receiving a notification email for Helix native just to see 75% off discounts for Helix users but no discounts for HX users is more than annoying to me. Videos with Yamaha youtube representatives at Peach Guitars say how HX stomp might be a perfect introduction to the Helix environment but I feel left out. It does not feel good. Sure, the red bean is finally black and squared and the code runs at a component level now, but,  HX stomp with native is almost as much money as Helix light with native, HX stomp is 600 plus 400 for native or Helix light for 1100 plus 100 for the discounted native. I love HX stomp but there is a lot less hardware on the HX stomp than either of the helix models so the price to feature and value ratio is starting to seem a bit off to me. I had not even considered returning HX stomp but now I am not so sure. The Fractal AX8 cost 1200, am I missing some big secret here or something or is this supposed to feel like a money grab?

[foxmeister]

8 hours ago, delok25 said:

600.00usd for HX stomp is not inexpensive. After just getting HX Stomp and then almost immediately receiving a notification email for Helix native just to see 75% off discounts for Helix users but no discounts for HX users is more than annoying to me. Videos with Yamaha youtube representatives at Peach Guitars say how HX stomp might be a perfect introduction to the Helix environment but I feel left out. It does not feel good. Sure, the red bean is finally black and squared and the code runs at a component level now, but,  HX stomp with native is almost as much money as Helix light with native, HX stomp is 600 plus 400 for native or Helix light for 1100 plus 100 for the discounted native. I love HX stomp but there is a lot less hardware on the HX stomp than either of the helix models so the price to feature and value ratio is starting to seem a bit off to me. I had not even considered returning HX stomp but now I am not so sure. The Fractal AX8 cost 1200, am I missing some big secret here or something or is this supposed to feel like a money grab?

 

Purely playing Devil's advocate here, I think there is a difference between buying a Stomp and a "full-fat" Helix (which includes LT).

 

Helix Native is the software-only equivalent of full-fat Helix, and offers considerably more capability and flexibility than the HX Stomp.

 

So if you have a Helix Floor/Rack/LT, when you buy Native you are just getting the software equivalent of something you already have. If L6 decided to produce a cutdown version of Native that only allowed 6 blocks, this would be the software equivalent of the Stomp, though I'd imagine that such a product would be derided by most Stomp users anyway.

I can't really see how it can be seen as a money grab and don't see the relevance of the cost of the Fractal FX8 in this scenario either. 

As I said earlier in the thread, I wouldn't be surprised if L6 do offer a discount to Stomp users to purchase Helix Native, but I doubt it would be as steep as the one offered to their more capable products - bear in mind that L6 only recently increased the discount for LT users, and I doubt that this is permanent either as they've increased and lowered the discount for LT in the past.
 

[delok25]

There is no way native is as powerful as the hardware. A plug in is no way as powerful as the hardware and the fractal comes into play because to the entry level purchaser like me I only need one platform. Any discount compared to no discount would be something as opposed to nothing. Like I said I feel left out and it does not feel good. 

[foxmeister]

24 minutes ago, delok25 said:

There is no way native is as powerful as the hardware. A plug in is no way as powerful as the hardware and the fractal comes into play because to the entry level purchaser like me I only need one platform. Any discount compared to no discount would be something as opposed to nothing. Like I said I feel left out and it does not feel good. 

 

For most extents and purposes, Native is functionally equivalent to the Helix hardware and you can use the same presets on both. Where they likely differ is latency, but that's a different issue and not one I'm qualified to comment on.

 

So, I'm sorry Helix Native is a more capable product than the HX Stomp, from a software perspective.

 

Comparing the HX Stomp to the Fractal AX8 doesn't make any sense either when the Line6 "equivalent" to the AX8 is Helix LT and, as far as I'm aware, there's no direct Fractal equivalent to Helix Native (please correct me if I'm wrong!). 

Up to only a month or two ago, the discount on Native for LT owners was only $100, and I would expect it to go back to that at some point. If that were the case, what sort of discount could HX Stomp users expect? $50 max? Should that also be extended to HX Effects users who have a product that doesn't contain amp modeling?

 

[codamedia]

1 hour ago, delok25 said:

the fractal comes into play because to the entry level purchaser like me I only need one platform.

 

I don't understand why Fractal is part of this discussion.... Fractal does not offer an equivalent to Helix Native.... it's hardware only and the Helix Floor and LT are the Line 6 equivalents.

 

1 hour ago, delok25 said:

There is no way native is as powerful as the hardware. A plug in is no way as powerful as the hardware

 

I'm puzzled.... aside from the hardware options (footswitches, pedals, etc...) it is indeed as powerful as the hardware version. The power and speed of your computer if the only real limit - and in general, computers have a lot more horsepower than the Helix does! 

 

I agree, there should be a discount of some sort for HX Stomp and possibly HX Effects buyers. But you should not expect the same discount as the people that put out 2 - 3 times your investment.

[delok25]

No way is software equal , dedicated hardware is always best or else we would all switch to purely laptop guitar and that's the truth. Fractal is always part of the gear acquisition discussion as is kemper and boss. If HX is going to be mostly in the HX environment as far as Helix native go's then how about an HX native alternative or similar or at least some kind of discount on Helix native. It does feel like a money grab because 1/4 of the  housing and 1/5 of the switches on stomp with access to 1/7 of the blocks simultaneously, to me, does not seem to add up to 600$ plus 400$ for native. I could see paying 600usd for HX stomp and then immediately spending 200usd for Helix native but not 400$.I can see us all dragging our laptops on stage saying "yah this VST is for sure as good as hardware,  I sure am glad I left all my dedicated hardware at home on this tour" lol

[cruisinon2]

14 minutes ago, delok25 said:

No way is software equal , dedicated hardware is always best .... "yah this VST is for sure as good as hardware,  I sure am glad I left all my dedicated hardware at home on this tour" lol

 

The fact that dedicated hardware is more mobile and convenient to use beyond the confines of one's living room, doesn't mean that the software version is any less robust in terms of performance or sound quality. I wouldn't want to tour with a laptop either... but what the audience heard would be essentially indistinguishable either way. The only difference is the laptop route is a logistical pain in the a$$, and my road crew would be drawing straws to see who gets to poison my lunch...;)

[phil_m]

7 minutes ago, delok25 said:

No way is software equal , dedicated hardware is always best or else we would all switch to purely laptop guitar and that's the truth. Fractal is always part of the gear acquisition discussion as is kemper and boss. If HX is going to be mostly in the HX environment as far as Helix native go's then how about an HX native alternative or similar or at least some kind of discount on Helix native. It does feel like a money grab because 1/4 of the  housing and 1/5 of the switches on stomp with access to 1/7 of the blocks simultaneously, to me, does not seem to add up to 600$ plus 400$ for native. I could see paying 600usd for HX stomp and then immediately spending 200usd for Helix native but not 400$.I can see us all dragging our laptops on stage saying "yah this VST is for sure as good as hardware,  I sure am glad I left all my dedicated hardware at home on this tour" lol

 

The Line 6 guys have mentioned they're looking at the possibility of adding a discount for Native along with the Stomp, but whether or not they will in the future, I don't know. I think, though, it's a bit disingenuous to complain about something like this after you've already bought the Stomp. I mean, you must have thought it was a good enough deal to buy it in the first place, right? Do you go to restaurant, order dinner, and then complain that your meal doesn't come with a free dessert when the restaurant made no promises about that from the start?

 

I mean, Line 6 is like any other business. There prices and promotions are based on their projections and how close the reality is to those projections. From everything I've heard about the sales of the Stomp is that they have far exceeded Line 6's most optimistic projections. So from that perspective, there isn't a lot of reason to add more incentive for people to buy. Business don't lower the prices of items when they're already selling like hotcakes.

 

As far as Native versus the hardware, it somewhat of an apples and oranges comparison. I wouldn't really want to use Native as a replacement for hardware at this time, but in the studio, the capabilities of Native far exceed the hardware. I can re-amp as many tracks as my system will let with Native in real-time. With the hardware, I can only ever process one track at a time... I can have as many instances of Native on a track as I want if I want to some sort of crazy signal chain. Native kind of wins hands down as far as that goes.

[delok25]

Of course, software is potentially an unlimited resource to the most powerful of computers, in theory, in reality because of the price a lot of people getting hx stomp will be absolute beginners without the processing power in their laptops to run ableton with helix native with 30 blocks let alone 15 blocks without serious issues, there is just no way. Add serum and your favorite Native Instruments plug in and there is just no way there would be a smooth experience. Even as a stand alone program helix native will need some serious power behind it to run at its fullest block parameters. It leaves the money grab feeling in my gut.  I have no brand allegiance and If i was looking for some like i said I feel left out. Just because one can price their products however they want does not mean I have to feel that they are respectable in doing so. The musicians friend return policy is 45 days for whatever reason. I love the stomp on my Pedaltrain nano+ its just perfect, but, 400usd for HX users to get into native is uncalled for in my opinion and with that email notifiication for the helix native option with no discount it felt like was kinda like a digital slap in the face for me, however light, a slap none the less. If I would have never gotten this native email I might have not even thought twice about where I stand with hx stomp because it seems to fit into my idea of what a decent modular guitar effects amp model and IR loader rig is perfectly.

[Kilrahi]

Holy freaking crap. My post got no hits in forever and then just blew up . . . which is kind of cool though I didn't want to contribute to someone feeling one of the coolest products they've ever seen is suddenly worth sending back.

 

Here's a few of my take away thoughts:

 

1. delock25: Imagine if the Native discount never existed for ANY HX users. I mean, nothing magical about the products required it in the first place. Some companies never do ANYTHING like that. Wouldn't the Stomp still be the coolest thing ever?  That's how I look at it. I'm right there with you on how perfect it is.  I messed with the Stomp well into the night last night and now I'm too tired to function well at work. It IS the coolest thing ever, with or without Native. Nothing has changed in that regard.

 

2. From a business perspective, digital software without a physical footprint (and ignoring piracy) is just about the best dang thing you can sell.  Other than the initial investment into development, which can be substantial, the stuff that follows gets pretty dang close to zero year over year. Especially as more product is sold, the margins for each purchase get better year over year too. This is NOT true for products like the Helix where each sale has to cover expensive hardware, and hardware that is at the mercy of trade agreements and all sorts of gobbly lollipop. The $1500 Helix doesn't help to pay for the Native software anymore than the $600 HX Stomp does. The software pays for the software. The Helix pays for the Helix. The reason Line 6 can give discounts on the software is precisely because of the strengths of selling software in the first place, NOT because the Helix or LT somehow magically pays for the software.

 

3. The more people Line 6 can pull into the Helix ecosystem, the more money they can make. Right now I've bought a Stomp. In the past I bought a Spider IV, a Pod HD500X, the additional software packs for the Pod,  and a Firehawk 1500.  If they can convince me to buy Native at a profitable price point for them, they make money off me. They're not going to convince me at $400. They might convince me at $150. There are no doubt many people out there like me. If $150 is worth it to them, knowing it keeps me and others more committed to the Line 6 ecosystem and future products, rather than say Headrush or something, then they should do it. That doesn't mean they will, but they should.

 

4. Line 6 also doesn't want to DEVALUE Native.  That's a big deal too.  Sell it for $10 a pop, and people will never pay $400 for it again, and consequently that may be a price point so egregiously low that it will never recoup the software development costs to say nothing about making a profit. It's also true that they don't want to devalue the Helix or the LT. Those are their premium models (sorry - I think the Stomp is cooler - but it's just NOT the flagship device here). It is a plus to the Helix's sales to say, "Oh, and it's worth spending $1500 because you ALSO get a huge discount on Native." I don't know how much of a boost it is to the value of Helix, but it IS a boost.

 

So lots to think about. Probably even more stuff I've missed. I'm sorry some feel like it is a money grab . . . but it IS a money grab. This is Line 6's livelihood. Their balancing act is to grab our money, while keeping us happy to dish it out. It's a tough game. It's called business.  It's pretty cutthroat.  

 

Still, I hope to get Native in the future. Hopefully they'll consider some sort of HX Stomp discount because honestly, if they can get me to jump there, it's really just a matter of time before I jump on a LT too, and that just helps them long term. Right now they've managed to become my metaphorical drug dealer when it comes to guitar gear, so keep increasing the addiction Line 6 (this is meant in a friendly encouraging way, not a criticism - love my L6 experience so far)! It's a symbiotic relationship, after all.

[phil_m]

I should note that Line 6 did just have a 30% discount on all their software, including Native. So even without the hardware discount, Native could be bought for $280... I wouldn't be surprised if they have another sale before Christmas, but I don't know for sure.

[codamedia]

6 hours ago, delok25 said:

No way is software equal , dedicated hardware is always best or else we would all switch to purely laptop guitar and that's the truth.

 

6 hours ago, delok25 said:

I can see us all dragging our laptops on stage saying "yah this VST is for sure as good as hardware,  I sure am glad I left all my dedicated hardware at home on this tour" lol

 

Nobody is suggesting a plugin and a laptop is an equal or better way to tour the world. If this is how you read our posts about Native, you have taken them out of context. We are talking about the SOFTWARE and any limitations related to that.  Native does not have the 6 block limit that the Stomp has, nor does it have a 9 block / no amp limit that the HX Effects has. You get 32 blocks and 2 stereo paths to work with... just like it's hardware big brothers!

 

I will also reiterate... I agree with you that L6 should offer Stomp and Effects users some sort of discount on Native... proportionate to the discount LT, Floor and RACK users receive. If someone has invested in the HX Line... I believe they should get a better price on Native than someone that is just buying another plugin for their studio. 

[Jense77]

According the Line6 promo https://line6.com/promos/

Stomp user can order the Helix Native with discount since 24th January 2019. But I see no option to choose my HX Stomp, see still only the HD Pod and the Helix Floor or LT option.

Did anyone order it already?

[rayray6]

I also tried today and could not see an option to add Native to the shopping cart for $99, for registered Stomp owners. I opened a support ticket.

[MikeBoth]

I can also confirm that as a registered HX Stomp owner I don't seem to be able to actually get the discount claimed on the promos page. At US99 this would be an insta-buy for me, even though I'm only an occasional DAW user.

[ClarkeOnGuitar]

Same here - Helix Stomp registered owner - no option for Native discount yet.

[rsvette12]

Me thinks its not ready yet - wait until they return from NAMM - they just announced it :)

[MusicLaw]

Helix Native price of $99 for all Helix Hardware owners -- including HX Stomp and HX Effects -- was announced by Eric Klein Friday Evening at Line 6's Customer Appreciation Event. My impression is that the updated pricing will be on the Line 6 website as soon as they get back to business tomorrow morning. Also likely to see the same pricing at Sweetwater and other authorized distributors as well. 

[rayray6]

Hey Stompers,

A Line 6 rep did respond to my support ticket, saying it must be a glitch in their system, as I definitely qualify for the $99 Native since Jan 24 because I am a registered Stomp owner. They are checking with IT and Marketing. So hopefully it will be fixed for all, soon.

[Jense77]

IT will say "please restart windows" ;-)

Thanks for the info....so let's wait till we can spend some money

[Jense77]

Now it's available, Stomp users get discount, bought the Native already.

[ClarkeOnGuitar]

Just curious to those who bought - did the authorization process work ok?  I too bought Native with the discount today, but it seems to be running in trial mode on 2 different PCs and thinks I don't own the full version, suggesting I go buy it.  I have an open support ticket at the moment.  For those that bought Native lately, did the authorisation process work normally?

[delok25]

Finally :-)  Yah ClarkeOnGuitar I never got an email for the download so I downloaded the trial version. When i gave native my activation code which I found in my profile in my  purchases it said "Trial active for 0 days".  It seems to be working just fine so far but in my account purchases it shows that I have native and native trial both active. I have to say I was pretty shocked that we got such a steep discount but relieved at the same time. I love the stomp and for me having native now is just one more reason to stay in the helix environment . 

[ClarkeOnGuitar]

5 hours ago, delok25 said:

Finally :-)  Yah ClarkeOnGuitar I never got an email for the download so I downloaded the trial version. When i gave native my activation code which I found in my profile in my  purchases it said "Trial active for 0 days".  It seems to be working just fine so far but in my account purchases it shows that I have native and native trial both active. I have to say I was pretty shocked that we got such a steep discount but relieved at the same time. I love the stomp and for me having native now is just one more reason to stay in the helix environment . 

 

Thanks for responding.  You mention "When I gave native my activation code" - where did you put that code?  I have no option to enter my activation code directly within the Native plugin.  The guys from Line 6 support suggested it should be in the prefs section under one of the tabs that comes up but I've got no option anywhere in the plugin that I can find.  Just curious as to where you put your activation code.  Thanks.

[delok25]

At the very bottom right under where it says trial I think I remember it saying something like "If you have a code click here" . When I did it opened up a link to my account. It was on the opening page when I opened native for the first time in my DAW. Now when I open native it says my name on the plug in so I  kinda think that my account has linked to the plugin correctly. It took me a couple tries because I could not find a place to put the activation code into directly on first glance. If I remember correctly they were highlighted words in yellow or orange in a link on the first page that seemed to kinda blend in to the background on me for some reason. Just try again and look towards the bottom of the screen on the opening page and click the link. I know how frustrating getting software to work can be sometimes but try it again anyway and see if you can find the link I am talking about .

[delok25]

So............. did you get your native to work yet ClarkeOnGuitar ? Just to admit it I suck at forums , i'm sure you can tell. I am am not sure how to respond to specific comments or tag anyone. Basically all I know how to do so far is post.

[ClarkeOnGuitar]

On ‎2‎/‎5‎/‎2019 at 1:31 AM, delok25 said:

So............. did you get your native to work yet ClarkeOnGuitar ? Just to admit it I suck at forums , i'm sure you can tell. I am am not sure how to respond to specific comments or tag anyone. Basically all I know how to do so far is post.

 

Hey delok - first of all, thanks so much for taking the time to respond to me in here - really appreciate it.  I was a bit slow to reply to you as I was waiting for Line6 to get back to me via support.  The good news is that they made some changes at their end and now my Native plugin is up and working as expected.  Interestingly I never had the option to enter a code at the bottom right like you described but in the end, Line 6 were really helpful and got me sorted before my trial time ran out.  Thanks again for your help in here, and thanks also to Line 6 for getting me up and running!