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Wallyg

Grammatico Brt

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Going through the Factory 1 presets list trying each one after the update, I landed on the Grammatico Brt preset. I put the Heir Apparent in front of it and pushed the gain up to about 6.9. That was all I changed. My Helix was running into my Powercab set flat and I was playing my JTV 59 on the Lester model. Cranked up loud,  it was a blistering singing crunchy Texas blues tone a la early ZZ Top. After a few minutes, I put on a slide and just WOW!

I may have to pop it upon Customtone.  I’m looking forward making some time to deep dive the other new models and update my other patches with the new OD models. 

Very happy with this update!

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I'm actually not having a lot of luck with the Grammatico models without a pedal.  If I set the drive levels lower, I can get an okay clean-ish tone, but once I start turn up the drive, this weird, exaggerated "sag and bloom" effect happens, even with sag set low.  Sounds like the input volume dropping at the attack and then swelling up weirdly, like a compressor kicking in.  It's also a very "bassy" yet brittle sound.  The Fullerton model is supposed to be in the same gene pool as the Grammatico, yet sounds normal with the same guitar.  If anyone has suggestions on how to use the drive/tonal controls to normalize the sound, that would be great.

 

The guitar I tried with the Grammatico is an Ibanez RG3120, which does have a bass-heavy bridge pickup, but I have it set a decent amount away from the strings.  I haven't tried my Les Paul with it yet, which has less-bass heavy pickups.

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Try the Grammatico (default setting) into the Powercab set to LF-RAW it's absolutely amazing!

Turn off any cab or IR and let the Powercab do it's thing.... 

Add the KOT or Zen Drive.

Finally feels like a real amp and can really compete with my Mesa Lonestar Special.

L6 Link to control the Powercab Plus is FANTASTIC!

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14 hours ago, ECmaj7 said:

Turn off any cab or IR and let the Powercab do it's thing.... 

Really no cab? Only the amp without cab?

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55 minutes ago, uelef said:

Really no cab? Only the amp without cab?

He's monitoring through a powercab which takes care of the cab emulation but also has a setting to turn off the tweeter and just use it as a 1x12.

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1 hour ago, uelef said:

Really no cab? Only the amp without cab?

 

One other thing no so apparent here about the PC+ (I didn't realize this at 1st either when I got mine)  is that you can turn the volume all the way down on the Powercab plus and still "monitor" it's sound (using the XLR out) in all its speaker/mic emulation glory into your DAW and studio monitors!!!

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The big knob on Helix now controls the volume with powercab + when hooked up via L6 Link. Much better. 

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2 hours ago, uelef said:

Really no cab? Only the amp without cab?

 

Yep. That's using only the 12" speaker in the cab, so you are basically listening the nature of the speaker, without any mic/sim involved.

 

Any amp block sounds good with that configuration, but there is also another motive for that; speaker models are all leveled down to average 15db, so they are A LOT quieter than LF Flat and LF RAW.

 

I've seen that I need my Helix and PC+, both with main volume to twelve o clock for LF-raw, and that's already plenty of juice. To obtain a similar feeling I need to crank up the Helix to max, when using the speaker simulations on the PC+, otherwise any tone would sound much thinner (Fletcher - Munson).

 


 

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1 hour ago, litesnsirens said:

He's monitoring through a powercab which takes care of the cab emulation but also has a setting to turn off the tweeter and just use it as a 1x12.

 

Well, in my opinion using LF RAW Mode on Powercab 112+ needs a full amp from Helix (with integrated cab). Only using the amp (without cab) does not sound really good …

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6 minutes ago, uelef said:

 

Well, in my opinion using LF RAW Mode on Powercab 112+ needs a full amp from Helix (with integrated cab). Only using the amp (without cab) does not sound really good …

 

Nope. You shouldn't use mic simulation with that mode, as there is no driver working, it's just the 12" speaker. You have no full frequency available, only low.

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18 hours ago, JimGordon said:

I'm actually not having a lot of luck with the Grammatico models without a pedal.  If I set the drive levels lower, I can get an okay clean-ish tone, but once I start turn up the drive, this weird, exaggerated "sag and bloom" effect happens, even with sag set low.  Sounds like the input volume dropping at the attack and then swelling up weirdly, like a compressor kicking in.

 

I noticed the same thing with the Grammatico about the "sag and bloom." I've noticed the same thing on a couple other amp models but forget which ones. On the Grammatico, I found that if I back off the master volume, say to 5 or 6, it gets rid of most of that sag. It also helps to reduce the sag. Once I did that, it actually sounded pretty great, especially with a drive pedal in front of it with the pre gains cranked.

Cheers

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49 minutes ago, PierM said:

 

Nope. You shouldn't use mic simulation with that mode, as there is no driver working, it's just the 12" speaker. You have no full frequency available, only low.

 

Well, I tried different amps in Helix (amps without the cab) - the PowerCab Plus was set to LF RAW … - but the sound was harsh and in my opinion far away from every real amp. It was unpleasantly fuzzy. Did you really check it out?

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1 hour ago, uelef said:

 

Well, I tried different amps in Helix (amps without the cab) - the PowerCab Plus was set to LF RAW … - but the sound was harsh and in my opinion far away from every real amp. It was unpleasantly fuzzy. Did you really check it out?

 

Yeah, I do use it A LOT, especially when I need to move some air, and Speaker modeling it's to thin for my needs. But I also have to be honest, and tell you I do mostly use clean tones, so I couldn't say how does it sounds under more saturated signals.

 

Could be you have no high cut in any preset? Dunno, I do set all my presets that are not using mic simulation, to cut around 6K, but no...I have no harsh/fizzy when using LF-RAW.

I do have harsh/fizzy when using Amp, no cab and FRFR on the Powercab. There it's clear that the mic/cab simulation is missing from the chain.

 

I guess we are in a gray area here, where there is not right and wrong, since LF-RAW it's one of the "voices" available in the FLAT mode (but with only raw LF), so probably just some unlocked feature they wanted to add without any real specific usage (although only FRFR voice mode it's offering the 20Hz/20Khz needed for the mic/cab/room simulation).

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If you like the sound of it DO IT, whether it makes sense or not.

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1 hour ago, PierM said:

Dunno, I do set all my presets that are not using mic simulation, to cut around 6K, but no...I have no harsh/fizzy when using LF-RAW.

I do have harsh/fizzy when using Amp, no cab and FRFR on the Powercab. There it's clear that the mic/cab simulation is missing from the chain.

 

 

Ok, I got it. High cut at 6 KHz, low cut at 80 Hz … Tilt EQ to lower the higher frequencies over 3.5 KHz – now I understand, what you mean. The Powercab moves air and feels like a real amp. The Revv with lot of distortion now sounds really amazing.

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Jason Sadites seems to have literally addressed my question directly about the Grammatico in his latest "Dialing In" youtube vid for the Grammatico Nrm and Zendrive, lol.  Apparently the exaggerated sag when the drive is pushed is a feature of the amp and not a bug in modeling.  Glad to know I'm not going cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs here.  Like he does, I'm going to use a drive pedal for gain in front of this model if I'm going for a more than slightly dirty sound, as opposed to cranking the gain.  Thanks for another very informative video, Jason.  Although he goes for a much more "direct to computer" sound than I do, it speaks volumes that I can still learn a lot from his explanations.

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I like this amp alot.  Not sure i'd use it alot live yet, but at home.  I break the dials on the amp and have a lot of fun with the crazy tone that comes out of it. 

 

 if this was one of the amps to " bridge  the   gap".  ( i can;t see this as being one that got a tone of popular votes) I completely trust L6 when releasing new models in the future that they will be great. 

 

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The replies to this post raise an interesting point: the source of the distortion can have a big impact on tone and feel. I'll explain.

 

There are three different configurations that have been describe in this post: Grammatico with master set high, Grammatico with master set lower, and some overdrive pedal into Grammatico. Let's look at what's different about  these and why they might sound and feel different.

 

Grammatico with master set high: In this case, its going to be the power amp that is distorting. Since Grammatico is using a tube rectifier and push-pull power amp, power amp distortion is going to generate a lot of odd order harmonics and exhibit quite a bit of sag. The only "tone control" on this distortion is the following Cab/IR model. This can sound brittle and harsh, and have sag that may negatively impact dynamics. But others might love the aggressive distortion that comes from odd order harmonics, and think the sag is providing the feel they've been missing.

 

Grammatico with master set lower: this will cause the distortion to be created in the preamp section which will have more even order harmonics (preamp tubes distort asymmetrically) and no sag since the amp isn't actually being driven that hard. Some people like preamp distortion, others think it has no life. A lot depends on how loud the amp is. Louder is going to sound better. But preamp and power amp distortion will sound different even if the saturation and volume levels are the same. Preamp distortion will be a little less aggressive and harsh, and won't have much feel.

 

Grammatico with overdrive pedal: in this case the amp is typically running close to clean and most of the distortion is coming from the pedal(s). This is the most flexible because you can use different pedals with different tone controls to control how much saturation there is, what harmonics make up the saturation, and have tone controls before and after the distortion to control the saturation voicing. This is why some people love pedals. They provide a lot more flexibility than preamp and power amp distortion.

 

Which of these is better? There's no way to know, everyone's taste and needs are different, and different songs need different sounds. But what's key is that they are different and why. Knowing this might give you better control to determine what you like.

 

 

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