Can The L2m Replace My 50 Watt Tube Amp

[JoeIbanez]

Currently I am running the Pod HD500 into the power amp section of my peavey combo 50 watt tube amp. I've been wanting to go FRFR for a while now, so my question is would the L2M be loud enough to replace my amp or would I need the L3M. Thanks

[cruisinon2]

Currently I am running the Pod HD500 into the power amp section of my peavey combo 50 watt tube amp. I've been wanting to go FRFR for a while now, so my question is would the L2M be loud enough to replace my amp or would I need the L3M. Thanks

 

 

 

 

 Well I've never played through one, but the L2M is an 800 watt amp...if it can't bury a 50 watt combo [tubes or not] in terms of volume, then something is very wrong with the Stagesource line.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[edstar1960]

 Well I've never played through one, but it's an 800 watt PA speaker...if it can't bury a 50 watt combo, then the whole Stagesource line needs to go back to the drawing board.

 

Remember we are comparing tube watts with solid state watts - and the L2M only has a 10" speaker - and we don't know what the Peavey 50 watt is running into - is it a 1x12 or 2x12 combo?  So I don't know what the actual dbs would be for each.  You would hope that the L2m can compete and hold it's own but I guess you don't really know unless you do a side by side comparison.  Having said all that - the L2m is designed to be used in a live band situation so it must be plenty loud enough to cut through and get above the drums, and I have seen threads on the forums where people have reported the L2 speakers as really loud.    

[cruisinon2]

Remember we are comparing tube watts with solid state watts - and the L2M only has a 10" speaker - and we don't know what the Peavey 50 watt is running into - is it a 1x12 or 2x12 combo?  So I don't know what the actual dbs would be for each.  You would hope that the L2m can compete and hold it's own but I guess you don't really know unless you do a side by side comparison.  Having said all that - the L2m is designed to be used in a live band situation so it must be plenty loud enough to cut through and get above the drums, and I have seen threads on the forums where people have reported the L2 speakers as really loud.    

 

ok, but we're still talking about 800 watts vs 50 watts...thats quite a difference. We've all played through 50 watt tube amps that can melt concrete, and will embarass their 100 watt or even 150 watt solid state counterparts, but I can't see it being an issue in this case. These things are really PA speakers that can function as  guitar amps. If its not the loudest thing in the room, it would be of no use as a PA, which is its primary function.

[JoeIbanez]

Remember we are comparing tube watts with solid state watts - and the L2M only has a 10" speaker - and we don't know what the Peavey 50 watt is running into - is it a 1x12 or 2x12 combo?  So I don't know what the actual dbs would be for each.  You would hope that the L2m can compete and hold it's own but I guess you don't really know unless you do a side by side comparison.  Having said all that - the L2m is designed to be used in a live band situation so it must be plenty loud enough to cut through and get above the drums, and I have seen threads on the forums where people have reported the L2 speakers as really loud.    

My Peavey is a Classic VTX 2x12 Combo. I would like to think the l2m would do the job, but I am just not sure and there is no music stores around that I could test drive one. So I was hoping that someone was using one in a live setting to give me some direction on either the l2 or the l3. Thanks, I really appreciate everyone input.  

[edstar1960]

ok, but we're still talking about 800 watts vs 50 watts...thats quite a difference. We've all played through 50 watt tube amps that can melt concrete, and will embarass their 100 watt or even 150 watt solid state counterparts, but I can't see it being an issue in this case. These things are really PA speakers that can function as  guitar amps. If its not the loudest thing in the room, it would be of no use as a PA, which is its primary function.

 

Yes - you would think that 800 watts vs 50 watts is quite a difference and in mathematical terms it is, but in terms of determining the loudness of a particular amp it really is meaningless.  This has confused the heck out of me over the years but I know from experience that the watts declared do not equate to the loudness.  I bought a 150 watt reference amp for home recording use, and it runs through some Tannoy reveal monitors and I often have it turned up to max and it sounds like a moderately loud hi-fi and it is not as loud as my Sessionette 75 watt solid state guitar combo with 1x12 turned up to about a quarter.  Same with my DT25 - just 25 watts max apparently - but it is plenty loud enough to play in a live band situation to get above the drums and everyone else.  I also have a B210D - 200 watt active PA speaker - that gets loud but has to be almost at max to compete with the DT25 in terms of volume and punching through the mix.

 

I agree - I think the L2m will be loud enough for a live band (and I have seen plenty of threads where people have reported it as loud) but I cannot say with any degree of certainty that it will be as loud or louder than the Peavey 50watt tube combo.  The L3m is rated at 1200watts and I think has a larger speaker (I haven't checked the specs recently), so will obviously be louder and pack more of a punch. 

 

Ideally the OP needs to try both and see which one compares with his amp - perhaps he can get them both on a 30 day return promise via mail order and send back the one that he doesn't need.  Personally I think the L2m will be fine but he needs to try it to be sure.

 

:)

[WaubinHood]

 

Evolution - one of those forbidden words, huh? - happens in everywhere. That includes also amps and loudspeakers. In this one it seems that Line6 has been using not so traditional hardware. And generally in full-range systems it's not about how any 12-inchers you have in your set. How you measure your cabinet means so much also.

 

I personally would be very suprized, if 50W tube amp appeared to be louder than 800W L2m. One thing that could lead to feel ike it may be 50-watter breaking nastily when cranked full up and producing nasty, cutting high tones. And when used in same power range them 800 watts still produce very large, but warm like summer rain (oh, i'm a poet now, am i) sound with no disharmonies whatsoever.

[cruisinon2]

Yes - you would think that 800 watts vs 50 watts is quite a difference and in mathematical terms it is, but in terms of determining the loudness of a particular amp it really is meaningless.  This has confused the heck out of me over the years but I know from experience that the watts declared do not equate to the loudness.  I bought a 150 watt reference amp for home recording use, and it runs through some Tannoy reveal monitors and I often have it turned up to max and it sounds like a moderately loud hi-fi and it is not as loud as my Sessionette 75 watt solid state guitar combo with 1x12 turned up to about a quarter.  Same with my DT25 - just 25 watts max apparently - but it is plenty loud enough to play in a live band situation to get above the drums and everyone else.  I also have a B210D - 200 watt active PA speaker - that gets loud but has to be almost at max to compete with the DT25 in terms of volume and punching through the mix.

 

I agree - I think the L2m will be loud enough for a live band (and I have seen plenty of threads where people have reported it as loud) but I cannot say with any degree of certainty that it will be as loud or louder than the Peavey 50watt tube combo.  The L3m is rated at 1200watts and I think has a larger speaker (I haven't checked the specs recently), so will obviously be louder and pack more of a punch. 

 

Ideally the OP needs to try both and see which one compares with his amp - perhaps he can get them both on a 30 day return promise via mail order and send back the one that he doesn't need.  Personally I think the L2m will be fine but he needs to try it to be sure.

 

:)

 

 

Well a protracted debate isn't gonna help anyone.  But to declare wattage comparisons meaningless is, quite frankly...meaningless. If the number never mattered, every spec sheet in the world would read "Power: We don't know, and it doesn't matter anyway.". I've owned a million pieces of gear over the years too, and in the typical guitar amp range of 25w to 150w, yes there is wide variation in perceived volume that isn't always linear with wattage, especially when comparing tube vs. solid state. But the day I meet an 800w PA amp that can't out-thump a 50w combo, tubes or not, I'll eat my hat.  And given the tendency of people to complain around here, if the Stagesource line were so anemic that it can't beat out an amp with 1/16th the rated power, people on this forum would be screaming from the rooftops about it all day long...Line 6 would never hear the end of it. That, and Peavey 2x12s would be impossible to find, and the price would triple... ;)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[billlorentzen]

I can't speak to the cabinet you mention, but I can tell you my experience with the Yamaha DXR 10", which is a fairly similar modern design with 1100 watts and 131 dB SPL (by the way, SPL is much more pertainant in the comparison between tube and solid state, however, I doubt you can find that data on the Peavey).

 

In the context of playing with a drummer nearby, I have had no problem with achieving adequate volume, and I doubt any modern powered loudspeaker would not be able to do the same. Check out the DXR too. It has performed flawlessly for me.

[edstar1960]

Well a protracted debate isn't gonna help anyone.  But to declare wattage comparisons meaningless is, quite frankly...meaningless. If the number never mattered, every spec sheet in the world would read "Power: We don't know, and it doesn't matter anyway.". I've owned a million pieces of gear over the years too, and in the typical guitar amp range of 25w to 150w, yes there is wide variation in perceived volume that isn't always linear with wattage, especially when comparing tube vs. solid state. But the day I meet an 800w PA amp that can't out-thump a 50w combo, tubes or not, I'll eat my hat.  And given the tendency of people to complain around here, if the Stagesource line were so anemic that it can't beat out an amp with 1/16th the rated power, people on this forum would be screaming from the rooftops about it all day long...Line 6 would never hear the end of it. That, and Peavey 2x12s would be impossible to find, and the price would triple... ;)

 

I agree with you that the L2m should be fine, and that plenty of people have stated that it is really loud and plenty loud enough for a live band - so the OP should be fine with it.  :)

 

But I disagree that we can assume it's louder than a 50w tube combo just because it has a declared power of 800w - the wattage alone does not equate to the actual volume that can be achieved. You also have to take into account the ohm's of the speaker(s) it is running into.   4 ohm speakers will give more watts than 8 ohm speakers.  Our band had a Yamaha CP2000 power amp - a 2000 watt amp - and the manual states that this amp will provide 650W + 650W into 4 ohm stereo or just 450W + 450W into 8 ohm stereo, 2000W into 4 ohm bridged and 1300 into 8 ohm bridged.    Watts don't necessarily equate and more watts doesn't necessarily mean louder.  That's all I was trying to say.    :)

[cruisinon2]

I agree with you that the L2m should be fine, and that plenty of people have stated that it is really loud and plenty loud enough for a live band - so the OP should be fine with it.  :)

 

But I disagree that we can assume it's louder than a 50w tube combo just because it has a declared power of 800w - the wattage alone does not equate to the actual volume that can be achieved. You also have to take into account the ohm's of the speaker(s) it is running into.   4 ohm speakers will give more watts than 8 ohm speakers.  Our band had a Yamaha CP2000 power amp - a 2000 watt amp - and the manual states that this amp will provide 650W + 650W into 4 ohm stereo or just 450W + 450W into 8 ohm stereo, 2000W into 4 ohm bridged and 1300 into 8 ohm bridged.    Watts don't necessarily equate and more watts doesn't necessarily mean louder.  That's all I was trying to say.    :)

 

It's always easy to make discussions more complicated than they need to be...and that's the territory we're crossing into now, lol. :)

 

All of what you said is true, but it doesn't really apply here. Impedance missmatches are a whole other ballgame. Mixing amps and cabs with different impedance ratings can certainly present problems. But the 50w Peavey combo and L2M are self-contained units, so this isn't an issue. And while an absolute apples to apples comparison might not be possible without getting out the calipers and decibel meters, I still say that if you're looking at 2 amps on paper, and one is 50w and the other 800w...it's such a divide that you'll get a pretty good idea which one will be louder [assuming no impedance issues] without even plugging them in. But who knows...maybe I'm nuts.

 

 

[WaubinHood]

Nuts, eh? Well that makes two of us.

 

It may be, that we are just blind. Maybe we've missed the small print, where Line6 says that "in our infamous L2m we have 800W in 2 ohms, but we've managed to create a 128ohm speaker system which of course reduces our loudness a bit". ;)

[cruisinon2]

Nuts, eh? Well that makes two of us.

 

It may be, that we are just blind. Maybe we've missed the small print, where Line6 says that "in our infamous L2m we have 800W in 2 ohms, but we've managed to create a 128ohm speaker system which of course reduces our loudness a bit". ;)

LOL...OK, I give up. It'll either melt your face off, or it won't. Oh, what a glorious mystery... :D

[edstar1960]

It's always easy to make discussions more complicated than they need to be...and that's the territory we're crossing into now, lol. :)

 

All of what you said is true, but it doesn't really apply here. Impedance missmatches are a whole other ballgame. Mixing amps and cabs with different impedance ratings can certainly present problems. But the 50w Peavey combo and L2M are self-contained units, so this isn't an issue. And while an absolute apples to apples comparison might not be possible without getting out the calipers and decibel meters, I still say that if you're looking at 2 amps on paper, and one is 50w and the other 800w...it's such a divide that you'll get a pretty good idea which one will be louder [assuming no impedance issues] without even plugging them in. But who knows...maybe I'm nuts

 

LOL    :D

 

Sorry!   I have been caught out before thinking I was buying a plenty loud enough amp or active speaker based on it's published watts only to find it was not anywhere near as loud as I had thought it would be!    But the L2m should have plenty of fire power from what I have read.   ;)

[DeanDinosaur]

This is amazing how deceptive companies can be to most musicians. L2 at 800 watts is not really 800 watts at all. It's listed as 800 watts Peak power, which means it can handle spikes of sound at a max of 800Watt. What you need to know is the continuous power handling, but unfortunately Line 6, and most other companies, don't list that. My guess is that continuous power for the L2 is between 150 watts to 200 watts based on the fact that Peak Power is usually up to 4 times "continuous power" and can be 5 or 6 times more!

 

Actually I wouldn't be surprised if any tube amp rated 50 watts will be much louder than an L2 and no body needs to eat their hats except for the companies who think it's cute to only list the peak power when they know it's the least meaningful to how loud an amp is!

[cruisinon2]

This is amazing how deceptive companies can be to most musicians. L2 at 800 watts is not really 800 watts at all. It's listed as 800 watts Peak power, which means it can handle spikes of sound at a max of 800Watt. What you need to know is the continuous power handling, but unfortunately Line 6, and most other companies, don't list that. My guess is that continuous power for the L2 is between 150 watts to 200 watts based on the fact that Peak Power is usually up to 4 times "continuous power".

 

Actually I wouldn't be surprised if any tube amp rated 50 watts will be much louder than an L2 and no body needs to eat their hats except for the companies who think it's cute to only list the peak power when they know it's the least meaningful to how loud an amp is!

 

Perhaps you're right...but I've been told I need more roughage, and the hat will taste better than anything I cook anyway. :P

[DeanDinosaur]

There's no Perhaps here, Peak power could be even 5 to 6 times RMS or continuous power, so L2 RMS power can even be lower than 150 watts. Wow another another healthy eater, I'm surrounded by those every where I go, can't escape destiny I guess. :mellow:

forgot to mention:   how they tested to get 800WAtts Peak might have been done in a creative way also to get the higher number.

[WaubinHood]

Hmm... Would someone with more cash (just had to get these Line6's and 2 keyboards, so i will be poor 'til 2134) just go, buy one and hook it up with some kinda Dyno tester for amps, eh?

 

Funny, how i managed to compleytely miss the word "peak" in all this... Will eating a hat or two cure blindness by any chance? Guess i better get one of them hipster-Fedoras to find out.

[cruisinon2]

Hmm... Would someone with more cash (just had to get these Line6's and 2 keyboards, so i will be poor 'til 2134) just go, buy one and hook it up with some kinda Dyno tester for amps, eh?

 

Funny, how i managed to compleytely miss the word "peak" in all this... Will eating a hat or two cure blindness by any chance? Guess i better get one of them hipster-Fedoras to find out.

 

Only if the hat is rich in Vitamin A...and they'll only sell you those hats at the Hipster Lid Emporium if you're sporting at least 3 days' growth (comfirmed in house by striking a match on your face), and agree to surrender all razors and shaving creams/gels, etc. at the door. Then you have to sign a document asserting that everything that's ever been popular, in fact sucks. Otherwise, prepare to be silently judged, and it's off to the sporting goods store for a baseball cap. :D

[JoeIbanez]

Thanks to everyone, I think I will order the L2M and if all goes well hopefully one day get a second one for a stereo setup 

[WaubinHood]

Only if ...

Too difficult. If opening my eyes next time i'm reading won't help, i just get loads of vitamin A, a transmission oil exchanger and self shoot me an enema of the century.

[cruisinon2]

Too difficult. If opening my eyes next time i'm reading won't help, i just get loads of vitamin A, a transmission oil exchanger and self shoot me an enema of the century.

 

Lol...post pics. :P

[Rewolf48]

L2t spec sheet includes:

 

Maximum SPL Output:

128dB peak @ 1 meter (unweighted, measured indoors with music program material)

 

According to the experts long term exposure at 85db or more is Hearing Damage.

 

I don't have an L2, but I have a similar (although much simpler) FBT MaxX 2a (also 10" + tweeter) with a specification of: "High SPL capability: 121 dB", and I can tell you that in a 5 piece band I have never gone above 50% on the main volume. Even if there is some discrepancy between "peak" and RMS measurements the difference is only 3db the only conclusion is that it is lollypop loud, but from what I have heard is also very clean and should have no problem in any vaguely sensible band set-up that considers their audience.

[joel_brown]

What's with every thread saying something is Lollypop.  Is this some new adjective that only gets used on Line6 forums ?

[radatats]

it's the nanny software that converts any curse words to lollipop..  buncha lollipopping mother lollipoppers...  :lol:

[joel_brown]

Oh, I didn't lollipop know that...

[cruisinon2]

Oh, I didn't lollipop know that...

 

it's the nanny software that converts any curse words to lollipop..  buncha lollipopping mother lollipoppers...  :lol:

 

We can all thank the lawyers and the PC drones who've spearheaded this sort of lollipope in the name of  "progress".

[Charlie_Watt]

Don't know about you guys but I don't like bad language in these forums.  Not necessary and serves no purpose.

[WaubinHood]

Its a good language, if it has words in it and it's even better language with more words ;)

 

But..! (now where was i?)

 

There is one misunderstanding now. I'm not sure if the way Line6 talks about power is right. Or maybe it is, but... Gah! My english is leaving me in trouble here...

 

If i take one 655W and one 175W amps and play them together, it is not the same than playing thru one 830W amp. Especially, when 655 goes TOOT and 175 goes DING.

 

Confusing, huh?

[chuskey]

Well lollipop me, you learn something new everyday  :D

[Rewolf48]

"If i take one 655W and one 175W amps and play them together, it is not the same than playing thru one 830W amp. Especially, when 655 goes TOOT and 175 goes DING."

 

Watts (Volts x Amps) mean absolutely nothing when you are talking about Volume, they are a measure of how much electrical power is potentially passed through a transducer (something that converts one form of energy into another - in this case one or more Speakers).  The transducer has its own characteristics that the simple Watt measurement cannot include, especially when there are also output transformers (or not), impedance, resistance, capacitance, mechanical resistance, inertia and other factors involved.

 

The only figure that means anything when talking about how loud a system can go is the Sound Pressure Level (SPL), and even that is subjective depending on distance, frequency range, reflections, etc. 

 

For comparison with the 128 db SPL for the L2m, a Marshall 1960 with G12-75 speakers driven by 100W amp gives about 123.8 db peak @ 1m, so a single L2m/t is potentially louder than a Marshall stack on full.  Not that there is any practical reason to be using either on stage at anything like that level (the L2m being used as PA Mains can be justified if you want it loud and are outdoors)

[WaubinHood]

Yupp. All true. And i do know, how much more there is even in how one can present the amp power numbers. Amount of accepted harmony distortion etc, etc. There seems to be plenty of ways for telling about amp power. And like Rewolf48 said, it still doesn't tell about how loud the amp is. Nor does it tell do you, or not, hear that less powerful amp anymore.

 

And when we kindly remind people, that when we want something to be 10 times louder, we need to get our power 100 times bigger, brains start to melt ;)

 

Imma head back to original (i bet OP has already bought his amp and has his hands full playing, while we here keep chatting about it) and tell:"Yes! It can do it".

 

I believe, that with some extra money i'd get one as well. Just for the heck of it ;)

[cruisinon2]

 

I believe, that with some extra money i'd get one as well. Just for the heck of it ;)

 

Yeah...I want one too. Maybe a month or two after the taxman finishes this year's rectal exam...

 

[joel_brown]

To answer the original question, judging by the power specs available on the L2 it should be able to replace the 50watt tube amp just fine. 

[DeanDinosaur]

.....

For comparison with the 128 db SPL for the L2m, a Marshall 1960 with G12-75 speakers driven by 100W amp gives about 123.8 db peak @ 1m, so a single L2m/t is potentially louder than a Marshall stack on full.  Not that there is any practical reason to be using either on stage at anything like that level (the L2m being used as PA Mains can be justified if you want it loud and are outdoors)

I have no doubt in my mind that the L2 will not output 128db even for one second. It might handle or give 128db for a small fraction of a second or few milliseconds and that's at one foot. The marshall measurement you provided was at a distance of one meter and that's more than Three feet!! I will also be willing to bet that a 30watt tube amp will be louder than the L2 at one foot. So the 100 Watt Marshall will not only be louder than an L2, it will be significantly louder. A 100 watt into 4x12 is really too loud for most venues except the very large ones and that doesn't make the L2 an inferior product, it's just a different product all together, but as far as loud, it's no where near the 100 watt into 4x12.

[cruisinon2]

I have no doubt in my mind that the L2 will not output 128db even for one second. It might handle or give 128db for a small fraction of a second or few milliseconds and that's at one foot. The marshall measurement you provided was at a distance of one meter and that's more than Three feet!! I will also be willing to bet that a 30watt tube amp will be louder than the L2 at one foot. So the 100 Watt Marshall will not only be louder than an L2, it will be significantly louder. A 100 watt into 4x12 is really too loud for most venues except the very large ones and that doesn't make the L2 an inferior product, it's just a different product all together, but as far as loud, it's no where near the 100 watt into 4x12.

 

Well, 128db is getting dangerously close to the pain threshold anyway...exactly how loud do we need to get anyway? :wacko:

[DeanDinosaur]

Well, 128db is getting dangerously close to the pain threshold anyway...exactly how loud do we need to get anyway? :wacko:

I agree, it's well above pain, but  the topic of the thread is comparing a 50 watt tube amp with Line 6 L2.  Somehow it moved into comparing loudness but there isn't enough information provided by Line 6 or any company for that matter to indicate the actual loudness. Listing a peak of 128 db and 800 watt Peak power in the sepcs is obviously intended to deceive people into believing that it's more than loud. Again line 6 is not the only company that does that. So if you crank your 50 watt amp and expect the L2 to match that, I personally don't think the L2 can match that loudness.

[JoeIbanez]

Yupp. All true. And i do know, how much more there is even in how one can present the amp power numbers. Amount of accepted harmony distortion etc, etc. There seems to be plenty of ways for telling about amp power. And like Rewolf48 said, it still doesn't tell about how loud the amp is. Nor does it tell do you, or not, hear that less powerful amp anymore.

 

And when we kindly remind people, that when we want something to be 10 times louder, we need to get our power 100 times bigger, brains start to melt ;)

 

Imma head back to original (i bet OP has already bought his amp and has his hands full playing, while we here keep chatting about it) and tell:"Yes! It can do it".

 

I believe, that with some extra money i'd get one as well. Just for the heck of it ;)

 

Not Yet, I need to save some $$ hopefully in a few weeks I will be able to order one. At this point I don't want to sell my current amp to help with the purchase

[lwolford]

Line 6 is offering some sort of test-drive on these speakers. http://line6.com/testdrive/

[WaubinHood]

Looks like they're pretty sure 'bout themselves ;)

 

But lets not make this word war one with people just digging in their trenches with ancient opinions. Someone go find out (sadly in this country of poor and hopeless cavemen, finding one is practically impossible), how it is and then tell us all.

 

If them Anderton guys spy us in here (curses on you all!! You've already cost me a huge pile of money with your dreamrig propaganda... Even when i live in another country ;) ) they could actually put up a shootout and show us how it is.

 

C'mon guys. I know you have one ;)