edstar1960

Hi jandrio - by maple cap I am referring to the flamed maple top on the mahogany body of the JTV59 - I am not referring to the fingerboard. The fingerboard on both my JTV69 and JTV59 are rosewood.

I really wish there was some way to verify that the firmware loaded on the HD500 was working correctly. I read too many posts where a reflash fixes a weird problem and now it seems that you can have an apparent successful flash update BUT the amp models will sound bad or they won't sound as good as they did before the flash update. If there was some way of doing a verify of the flash update or of the firmware to know it was working 100% correctly then at least we would know whether we had a faulty piece of hardware or just needed to try another reflash possibly from another PC.

These are my thoughts too in terms of how I think they sound, however, it is in fact the JTV69 first and the JTV59 second. I think it's the maple cap on the JTV59 that adds that extra brightness - although before the comparison I thought that the JTV69 would sound slightly brighter based on it's physical characteristics.

Correct! The first clip is the JTV69 and the second is the JTV59. Well done! I think you were the only one who gave the correct order,

The MASTER on he DT25 controls how hard you push the valves (tubes) in the power stage of the DT25 - having it set low means you are not driving the valves (tubes) much but having it set post 12 o'clock and you are pushing them a little harder to get a bit of natural valve (tube) breakup from them. You balance the overall output volume of the HD500/DT25 by setting the MASTER on each accordingly. So if you have the MASTER on the HD500 at max - you set the DT25 MASTER lower, unless you want it really loud. You can also set the MASTER on the HD500 lower and then turn up the MASTER in the DT25 to compensate but you get the benefit of driving the valves (tubes) harder and will get more natural valve (tube) crunch from the DT25. There are some old threads that describe the relationship in detail and I will post a link here if I can find them. Meanwhile, just experiment to get a setting you like. Many people have settled on about 1 o'clock for both HD500 and DT25 MASTER volumes - that gives sufficient gig loudness and drives the valves (tubes) nicely.

I remember from the old forum one of the members saying he had a custom pick guard made for his new JTV69 from Greasy Groove. I found their site via Google and here is the link for the pickguard section: http://www.greasygroove.com/categories.php?cat=4 You may want to also note what Line 6 Tony has stated above regarding having Line 6 authorized repair centre do the work for you.

Each to his own - I happen to like the black on black aesthetics of the 69 with the chrome hardware highlights. Life would be boring if we were all the same! :)

PS ... as joel_brown suggested ..... have you got your gear plugged into a power surge protector? It could be as simple as that - your gear may be getting damaged from occasional electrical power surges.

I think it is a common problem with modern electronic equipment. It is pretty much all mass produced over in China - the QC is probably not what used to be applied to electronic equipment years ago - and they sell so much of it that they can probably take a hit on a higher failure rate than before - and most of it probably makes it past the 1 year guarantee mark anyway so they can put up with the small percentage that comes back for repair or replacement. I think you have been unfortunate that all 3 of your Line 6 purchases have had issues, but I have actually had issues with probably half of my Line 6 gear within warranty periods and thankfully Line 6 have fixed all the issues. It's frustrating that I had to encounter the problems and be without the gear while they got fixed but they always sorted the problem. So I continue to take my chances and continue to buy their stuff. I just accept that I no longer live in a world where I can expect electronic equipment to be always be 100% reliable all the time. Just as an aside, my wife had a brand new iPad that just died after 3 months - it was well looked after - just refused to switch on one day - needless to say once we had tried all the recommended trouble shooting with Apple, they just replaced it for her without complaint. I think Line 6 will do the same for any of their gear that fails within warranty. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

Thanks jandrio. I can understand how a specific PC and the combination of software it has running when you perform a flash upgrade can cause a problem - but I would expect the problem to be that the flash update simply fails. I don't understand how a flash update can be successful on an HD500X but the unit itself to then operate in a substandard way such as having the sound quality deteriorate. I understand how that can happen if a hardware component fails or starts to fail but I don't understand how software can only partially work as described in this issue. I am glad that the OP has fixed his issue by using a different PC, and I will make a note of it for any future trouble shooting even though I don't understand why it should make a difference, just like I don't understand why a reflash is often beneficial, but it is another thing to try before deciding the gear is broken and needs to go back to Line 6. :).

Also try a different power supply if you have one available just in case the original one is starting to go wrong.

I am pleased to hear that you have resolved your problem. I really don't understand how a different PC could perform the flash update in a different way and why it would make a difference. We are in the digital realm here and just transferring 1's and 0's over a USB connection and it should either work or not. I really don't understand how it can work badly on one PC and cause the HD500X sound to deteriorate but work fine from another PC. I know from first hand experience that a reflash sometimes can fix problems with Line 6 stuff and I still don't understand why that should be the case - but I really do not understand how a different PC could have such an impact. Maybe it was simply the reflash that fixed the problem and it was just a coincidence you happened to try it from a different PC? It would be nice to know for certain what actually fixed it. Still, it is useful to know to add to the list of trouble shooting tips ..... thanks for sharing the solution.

Rewolf48 - I thought they would sound different based on the fact that they are physically very different guitars, however, I thought the differences would be so subtle that I would not be able to tell, and I think in a band mix or in a recording mix that is the case. I found it interesting that I could tell there was a difference and just wanted to re-assure myself that I wasn't imagining it by running a blind test on the forum just to see whether other people could hear the same differences.

Thanks for the responses everyone. Some people are hearing what I heard and what prompted me to post the clips. When recorded directly like this they sound almost identical, in fact the recordings are so close that a casual listen through PC speakers at normal to low volume or even on headphones at low volume, you probably won't notice any difference. Certainly if they were in a band mix you would not spot any difference. When I played them via L6 link through my L2M there was a difference but I did wonder because I was playing a physically different guitar that maybe my brain was just telling me they must sound different which is why I decided to try a blind test to see if there was anything noticeable that everyone else could pick up on. I may attempt to record that L2m sound to see if the difference is still more noticeable once recorded. Meanwhile, I will let this thread run a little longer so some more members can comment before I reveal which order the guitars were played on the sample. Thanks again.

Yes you can. In the system options screen change the ABCD option to FS5-8

It's interesting that others can indeed hear a slight difference. I will reveal the correct order once a few more people have had a listen ...

I understand where you are coming from and I had exactly the same experiences when first moving to v2.x. The string volume difference really dumbfounded me and I raised a support ticket directly with Line 6 as I was convinced that there is some kind of software bug causing that issue for some users. I also raised it on Ideascale to be fixed. Pre v2.x flash, I never had to tweak with variax guitar settings - the models just seemed to work straight off and were comparable to real guitars. I did encounter some issues with the first few times I reflashed to v2.x - but eventually I got a clean update and then tried several reflashes and ended up on v2.1. For some reason, which I still do not understand, after multiple reflashes the new models did not sound as bad as the very first attempt, but the string volume imbalance was still there - so as things sounded better I decided to tweak the string volumes in WB HD, first at the GLOBAL level, and then at a model level for each model I particularly noticed it with. Once I had done that, I was then in the ball park of the demo's of v2.1 I was hearing online - so I stuck with it and then tweaked my rig settings to reach the tones I wanted - and I have been gigging with that for best part of a year. At the beginning of the week, I thought I would try moving back to v1.9 to see if I still liked it, and if I preferred it over the v2.1 that I had now been used to playing and immediately I discovered that through my rig everything sounded wrong and that I would have to adjust all my patches to get it to sound right - knowing how long it took me to get things sounding good to my ears, I decided it would be quicker and easier just to return to v2.1. So, I did not actually perform a direct v1.9 to v2.1 comparison as I had done in the past. However, the experience demonstrated to me, as someone who struggled to get v2.1 to sound as I needed, and someone who was happy with v1.9, that the patches I used and my rig setup were very sensitive to changing guitars and specifically to changing modelled guitars. Remember, last year I was perfectly happy with v1.9, so I expected that rolling back to it, I would once again be perfectly happy with it - but to my surprise discovered that as everything I had was tweaked to work with v2.1 that now I wasn't happy with it - and of course that same explanation works the other way round - if everything I previously had was tweaked for v1.9, then I would not be happy going to v2.1 straight off. Having said all that - the issues I encountered with the upgrade are real and my first impressions of v2.1, all match your experience and description of v2.1, and I can't really explain satisfactorily why there is such a big difference and why so much needs to be changed to balance things out to sound good, when I didn't have to do it before, and I don't have to do it so much with real guitars. There probably is a technical explanation as to why things sound so different, but I think that a major part of it is that they modelled completely different guitars, and another major part of it is that they also used HD modelling technology and the end result is a BIG difference between how the same physical JTV then interacts with your physical rig to how it used to perform with v1.9. I discovered that I needed to make a lot of changes to my patches and rig setup to shape my tone to get the best out of the new HD guitars and v2.x - and I also needed to tweak the HD models themselves in WB HD and now I have discovered that to go back to v1.9 that I will also have to make a lot of changes to keep a sound I like, and I really didn't expect that - I thought it was going to be an easy move. That is my experience and I am sure everyone else's mileage will vary. I understand what you are saying that a straight A/B comparison between v1.9 and v2.1 direct to your amp leaves you much preferring the v1.9 sounds - that is exactly where I was a year ago. I also know there is a problem with the string volume particularly on some models because I had that and I wish it could be fixed without me having to manually tweak stuff. It's entirely up to you what you do - but if you want the features that come with v2.1 then I think it is worth putting the effort in to tweak things to get the new models to sound good in your set up - if you don't want the new features then maybe it is not worth putting the time in to get v2.1 to sound good to you. Sorry for the long winded reply but I hope that has clarified my position and hopefully helped you decide what you want to do.

So does a variax guitar model sound exactly the same on a different model JTV - have a listen and decide for yourself. JTV59 and JTV69 both at fw 2.1 as supplied (not tweaked in Workbench HD) and using SEMI position 5. Both played via VDI into same HD500 patch and recorded in Sonar X3 without any post production. Same chord sequence. Are these samples identical? If not - what differences can be heard? And can you tell which sample is the JTV59 and which is the JTV69? Recording can be found here: https://soundcloud.com/eddie-wicker/jtv-59-69-semi-compare

I agree with stumblinman - if you are just playing along to stuff at home then the X3 bean will provide just what you need. So there really is no need to upgrade. If you are not completely satisfied with the tones you get from your X3 bean, and if you really want to upgrade to HD quality so they sound more realistic then the HD bean will achieve that BUT you may have to put in a lot of hours to program in the tone you want - it is not just plug and play. It's your choice.

With Workbench HD you can set individual string volumes for each model - and that allows you to set the low E string to zero volume so it can't be heard if you so wish. You have to be on firmware v2.0 or v2.1 for Workbench HD. If you are on v1.9 or lower then you have to use the old Workbench which does not allow you to do this.

If you already have the bank you want to work with dialled in on the guitar - in other words the MODEL knob pointing at the bank you want to update - then when you move the pickup selector it will move through the models in that bank - and if you are connected to Workbench HD at the same time, then Workbench HD will reflect what you have physically selected on the guitar BUT be sure to give it a few seconds to catch up and settle before making changes on the screen. Once you have made the changes on the screen, then you can hit "upload to Variax" and it will then send that change to the Variax - again it may take a second or two. Once all your changes are in place then simply moving the pickup selector should get you what you need BUT if you find you are jumping into a different model bank then it could be a problem with your Variax OR it could be a problem with your connection to Workbench HD - so to isolate that problem try using the Variax directly into an amp and see if moving the pickup selector gives you the models you expect, then try the same again while connected to Workbench HD. They should perform the same but if they don't then one or other is broken and you probably need to contact Line 6 support for assistance. Hope that clarifies things for you.

I've been using my JTV59 with v2.1 with tweaked global string volumes and model string volumes for almost a year now and have tweaked my HD500 patches to get my live band tones that I like. After reading through this thread I thought I would roll back to v1.9 and see whether I would prefer it over v2.1. I found that when I played v1.9 through my tweaked for v2.1 HD500 patches that things were over driven for many models and for some the sound became very muddy and I realised that I would have to tweak all may HD500 patches back again to get v1.9 sounding like I want, so I decided to put v2.1 back on rather than have to reinvent the wheel and start over with my patches. This demonstrated to me that whatever guitar (real or model) I use - ultimately I tweak my rig to get the sound I like from that guitar. The guitar models v1.9 and v2.1 are different, just like real strats, les pauls, tele's, semi's are different - and everyone just tweaks their rigs to get the tones they prefer from those different guitars. And just as with real guitars, someone may prefer one strat to another strat, or one LP to another LP - the same applies to the Line 6 models - they are just different. I think the problem is we have all been playing the same identical computer model at v1.9 which we are all comfortable with, and then we find out that Line 6 have introduced a new improved HD model of the same guitar, so we all assume it will immediately sound much better with our exact same rig set up. BUT we are wrong because what Line 6 have done is produced improved HD models of physically DIFFERENT guitars of the same or similar models as before - and we have to re-tweak our rig to get the new models to sound as we want and that is what catches us all out. I approached the v2.x models thinking they were improved versions of v1.9 and therefore, I was initially disappointed because they sounded so different and did not seem to work very well with my HD500 patches, and I had to do a lot of tweaking to get the sounds I wanted. When I eventually found out that the v2.x models were actually different guitars, I still could not get my head around why they sounded so different through my set up. Rolling back to v1.9 was what I needed to finally have the penny drop and understand they are DIFFERENT and that the HD500 is very sensitive to DIFFERENT guitars and will produce very different results even with the same type of guitar. Had the v2.x models just been HD versions of the original v1.x modelled guitars, the differences perhaps would have been subtle but better, and we would all have noticed an overall improvement but no major tonal variations through our rigs, and therefore, we all would have been happy. I know the reason they could not do that was because they did not physically have the same guitar models however, I think that moving to HD modelling at the same time as modelling physically different guitars caused a mismatch between expectations and what actually delivered resulting in some users being disappointed. With the benefit of hindsight, wouldn't it have been great if the new range of HD modelled guitars had first been made available as a different model pack available under v1.9 pre-HD modelling - perhaps as a new fw release v1.91 - and then when a user upgraded from that v1.91 to the v2.x HD versions of the same models they could have made accurate comparisons. I can understand why Line 6 could not afford to do that - but it certainly would have managed everyones expectations better - firstly that the model set had changed and then secondly that the models had then been improved with HD modelling - so with hindsight it may have been worth the investment? Obviously the move to v1.91 with a different model set would have caused controversy with users saying they preferred the original models - but at least they would have been clear they were DIFFERENT guitars that were going to be the basis for the new-HD versions and any comparisons would have been able to be made with the same pre-HD modelling. Just my two cents on the subject.

When you move the pickup selector switch it will change to the model at that pickup selector position in the model bank that is physically dialled in by the model selector knob on the guitar. You have to upload all the positions you want to the bank you want first and then dial in that bank physically on the guitar with the guitar model knob.

I have had my HD500 for a couple of years now - and all is still good. I don't see why a firmware upgrade would cause sound quality to degrade - I know they warn that things may sound different because of firmware changes but have never heard of any one else having the sound degrade and then get worse. That sounds like a faulty component more than anything - or maybe a faulty connection or bad soldering on the output connectors. And to have 2 bad units in a row is very unlucky. As you are within the 12 month warranty period you should be fine in regards having Line6 resolve the problem for you.

When creating a patch, remember that there is no right or wrong way of achieving the tone you are after. There are many configuration and parameter settings but they all just result in end tones that you either like or dislike. There are probably many more combinations that you won't like - which is why it's so easy to generate a sound you just don't like or just does not work for you. First of all, spend time to understand the configuration and routing options fully and then experiment with the configurations options. Keep it simple at first and as you understand how each piece effects the tone then move on to more complex patches.