Tones we want to hear from Helix

[Lachdanan0121]

Just to clarify, I didn't post that so you can't really use it as an argument for what I might be including. :)

Hahaha, Touche' wow. I just went down on fire there lol. I haven't failed like this in a long time, and your names aren't even similar...  :wacko:

 

Want to know whats even more sad... I edited several times for grammar and whatnot, and still didn't catch that.  My Apologies. Pay my stupidity no mind lol.

[ozbadman]

lol. No problem.

[sheds]

This thread is getting well off-topic. Let's get it back so anybody from Line 6 doesn't have to scroll through an unwinnable "shred is soulless" debate in order to see/hear some of the tones its customers would like, eh?

[Lachdanan0121]

I just want to hear more tones from it, different than what we already have heard in sound clips, and videos. That is basically all I want.

[brue58ski]

I was not referring to the poster above when I mentioned envy. I don't know their particular motivation behind what they stated. However, from my experience with people when they go on about this "soul" nonsense, envy has played a large role (maybe not of the ability, but of recognition as well)... Generally speaking. AND maybe not the biggest role, and that is where I am wrong when I said "more than anything."  :P

 

But I did not state out of arrogance, I stated out of experience.   If I were referring to the poster (ozbadman) then yea that would be quite out of arrogance. I was referring to my personal experiences when talking with people about this subject (which I have in detail) which usually gets boiled down to speed = no emotion. I could have been more clear on that, much like how he could of been clearer on his personal "what he get out of it" rather than "what they put into it" which I cover below. 

 

Well my experience has been different. I have found, especially in this classic speed/feel discussion, that people who say they don't feel anything for or don't like something, just don't. And it's not because they're jealous or anything else other than...wait for it...they don't  feel anything for it or don't like it. Period. And my experience has been the classic, comeback to the "speed sucks" camp from the "speed is a legitmate form of expression" camp is "you're just jealous". So I'm curious how you obtained your experience. In your experience have you actually had people tell you "yes it's really because I'm jealous, you are right" or something to that effect? Or have you heard someone mutter under their breath "I actually wish I could play like that". You have actually heard someone admit that they are jealous? And several people I guess. Really? Maybe they've said something like  "they don't deserve their accolades" and you have then ascertained from that comment that jealousy is a factor. Whatever it is, the only way, that I can see, you could know for sure that is what they are thinking is if they specifically tell you that. And given human nature, I sincerely doubt that has occurred with any frequency  And if they haven't actually said they are jealous, anything else is speculation and arrogance. With a healthy dose of schoolyard name calling thrown in. Unless you actually can read minds. That would be amazing. Each side has it's merits. Just romping through scales and arpeggios as fast as you can can be emotionless and unfeeling. Often leaving listeners flat. BUT it can also have alot of emotion and feeling. Steve Morse being a good example of that, IMHO. Have I belabored this?  :wub:  You're right, I have. Never mind. But I'm still posting it. :P  :D 

[radatats]

[Lachdanan0121]

Well my experience has been different. I have found, especially in this classic speed/feel discussion, that people who say they don't feel anything for or don't like something, just don't. And it's not because they're jealous or anything else other than...wait for it...they don't  feel anything for it or don't like it. Period. And my experience has been the classic, comeback to the "speed sucks" camp from the "speed is a legitmate form of expression" camp is "you're just jealous". So I'm curious how you obtained your experience. In your experience have you actually had people tell you "yes it's really because I'm jealous, you are right" or something to that effect? Or have you heard someone mutter under their breath "I actually wish I could play like that". You have actually heard someone admit that they are jealous? And several people I guess. Really? Maybe they've said something like  "they don't deserve their accolades" and you have then ascertained from that comment that jealousy is a factor. Whatever it is, the only way, that I can see, you could know for sure that is what they are thinking is if they specifically tell you that. And given human nature, I sincerely doubt that has occurred with any frequency  And if they haven't actually said they are jealous, anything else is speculation and arrogance. With a healthy dose of schoolyard name calling thrown in. Unless you actually can read minds. That would be amazing. Each side has it's merits. Just romping through scales and arpeggios as fast as you can can be emotionless and unfeeling. Often leaving listeners flat. BUT it can also have alot of emotion and feeling. Steve Morse being a good example of that, IMHO. Have I belabored this?  :wub:  You're right, I have. Never mind. But I'm still posting it. :P  :D

I cannot really argue with that, except that in some of the conversations... a few have in fact alluded verbally to some of it "may be rooted in jealousy" (which is actually more accurately defined as envy).  Either out of the recognition of the person they are speaking of, or of the skill of which the person is speaking of. This has happened a few times.  Albeit your right about the frequency, which I stated I was wrong about in the last post.  (for that reason you are belaboring this)

 

I can admit fault, however, if you continue to dismiss my experiences, basically using assumptions is kind of contradictory to your entire posting to me in the first place.  :P

 

My experience also has concluded from the "slow = emotion" camp is that when they speak it, its touted as fact, "well that just isn't music." 

Opinion is one thing, but in my experiences calling them out on it over and over only then do they say "well TO ME, it just isn't music!" Its the same old routine...  Now I take it to keep consistent you intend to post to those posters the same as how you focused on me?

 

Given human nurture, and things like marketing, and monumental amounts of money, and religion... I find it that you can state "human nature" (in this regard) is a bit... shall we say.. possibly arrogant.  :P

 

Also if you post some long post, do me the favor of splitting it up, that wall of text is a bit hard on the eyes. I don't mean to sound like an A$5, I prefer segmented.

 

But I would rather not carry this on anymore, thread has already derailed enough, and I don't see what you intend to get out of it, I have already admitted I was wrong on the frequency, but that is all. At this point a rather appropriate "fair enough" should ensue, or if you just dismiss my experiences, then you are just being a hypocrite, for reasons I hopefully don't have to underline! ;)  

 

Oh and yes, lol I can read minds!  :lol:

and to the OP, I apologize.

[brue58ski]

I cannot really argue with that, except that in some of the conversations... a few have in fact alluded verbally to some of it "may be rooted in jealousy" (which is actually more accurately defined as envy).  Either out of the recognition of the person they are speaking of, or of the skill of which the person is speaking of. This has happened a few times.  Albeit your right about the frequency, which I stated I was wrong about in the last post.  (for that reason you are belaboring this)

 

I can admit fault, however, if you continue to dismiss my experiences, basically using assumptions is kind of contradictory to your entire posting to me in the first place.  :P

 

 I did no such thing. I don't know what your experiences have been. I assumed nothing. That's why they were presented as questions and not facts. "Have you..." and "Maybe they" are generally precursors to questions and not statements of fact. It was then up to you to confirm or deny such events if you chose to. They were, however, never presented as facts.

 

My experience also has concluded from the "slow = emotion" camp is that when they speak it, its touted as fact, "well that just isn't music." 

Opinion is one thing, but in my experiences calling them out on it over and over only then do they say "well TO ME, it just isn't music!" Its the same old routine...  Now I take it to keep consistent you intend to post to those posters the same as how you focused on me?

 

You can "take it" however you want. I thought you were unfair in the way you characterized a persons thougts with no evidence that was what they were thinking. And it seemed in the vein of schoolyard name calling and not actual intelligent discussion. Much like your emoticons and other statements. So I was commenting on that. I am consistent in my reaction to unfairness. If and when I react. Another thing that happens alot on a school yard is the sticking out of the tongue.

 

Given human nurture, and things like marketing, and monumental amounts of money, and religion... I find it that you can state "human nature" (in this regard) is a bit... shall we say.. possibly arrogant.  :P

 

It appears you have an extrremely different defintion of aroggance than I do. You should look it up sometime. My assesment of human nature was based on my personal experiences and education and my own human nature. I'm no better than anyone else. You seem to value the personal experience part very highly. So surely that should be enough to back my statement up. It was for you for yours.

 

Also if you post some long post, do me the favor of splitting it up, that wall of text is a bit hard on the eyes. I don't mean to sound like an A$5, I prefer segmented.

 

 I aims to please.

 

But I would rather not carry this on anymore, thread has already derailed enough, and I don't see what you intend to get out of it, I have already admitted I was wrong on the frequency, but that is all. At this point a rather appropriate "fair enough" should ensue, or if you just dismiss my experiences, then you are just being a hypocrite, for reasons I hopefully don't have to underline! ;)  

 

Well then, to avoid becoming a hippocrite yourself, I'm sure you won't be responding to this then. Unless you intend on getting more out of it. And what will you be trying to get out of the post  you inevitably will do. I base this on human nature as well. C'mon. you know you will. I personally wasn't intending or trying to get anything out of it other than what is on the page/post. What would make you think there was more to it? Oh I forgot, you can read my mind. :D What were you getting out ot it? I mean why would you ask that unless you were getting something more out of it?

 

Oh and yes, lol I can read minds!  :lol:

 

AHA!! You admit it!

 

and to the OP, I apologize.

 

Me too. I'm done. This was amusing. Whether you respond or not I am done with this exercise. Have a good life. Practice hard. And for cryin' out loud, stop playing so fast. I figure 16th notes at about 120 BPM, is when emotion starts to disappear from playing. And since you have to sell your soul to the devil in order to play fast, you have no emotions or feelings anyway. I know after I sold mine, I didn't.  (That's a joke)

[Lachdanan0121]

Brue58ski

I guess you didn't use emoticons... (funny how they are in your post) I did, to try and lighten the mood, kind of like you through a joke in at the end of yours, and I did with the "I can read minds."  (yet I feel that will somehow be turned around, its becoming quite trendy)

I take it your statements on human nature (based off of your personal experiences) aren't arrogant, using the definition of arrogant. How about you look it up.

I guess you don't at all sound like a school yard boy yourself? We are both guilty of it, read the posts back and forth. 

 

I admitted I was wrong, and I was unfair about my assessment, at least on the envy part. When I posted that, you went on, and on.  Which shows you were expecting to get more... This is what happened. 

 

I do not see how you are consistent in your reaction to "unfairness" when you are failing to see it in yourself....

Wow, the exceptional-ism lol. Im done as well, and you sir have a good life!

[stumblinman]

Wow. I come back from camping and check this thread.. It's all blown up! Don't even recognize it.

 

I have nothing against players that play "fast" per se.

 

But there is definitely a line you cross where you are no longer playing a melody and just throwing notes in the same key/scale together. That's where it ceases to sound musical (to me).

I can appreciate all sorts of players and music, but I admit as I age I don't like some of the stuff I liked as a youth. I'm sure everyone can agree tastes change as you age. For me, I like more Beatles and less Testament. 20 years ago that was the opposite. Sorry to blow up the thread with one small post a few days ago.

[ozbadman]

 

Not a problem for me. Hijack away and save the planet from these sandpaper-tongued feral lion wannabes. :) But harm a puppy and there'll be hell to pay.

[stratchamp]

 

I'd love to hear this cranked up ac30 type tone in the helix.  From what I've heard from the clean ac30 clips so far, I might be able to get something close to this.

[ColonelForbin]

Thus far, the best tones, playing, discussion and Helix overview, that I've heard, in any of the demo videos, hands down, by a whole lot, is the recent Anderton's Helix review video with Paul Hindmarsh!! Winning with English accents, gets it done every time! :)

 

 

[josephyballew]

I agree about the "soul crap" but I have to disagree with your envy assesment. Fist of all, I think it's a bit arrogant to assume you know where anyone's opinion comes from. Especially in a forum where there's no way you could ascertain that. I think when you say that, it's essentially just schoolyard name calling.

 

"You're just jealous" (said in a whiny chld's voice).

 

Now when I first saw Yngwie, his playing left me flat. Fast, fluid and accurate..Yes. But I felt nothing. In no way did it do anything for me except "gee, golly, he sho're is fast".  I wasn't jealous, didn't start with my nose in the air, expecting to feel no emotion. That's just what I felt (or didn't feel). Now Steve Morse. That would be different. The tastiest "faster" player I know. Steve Vai; the only song of his that did anything for me was Attitude Song. And I WANTED to like Vai. Bought three of his CD's based on the potential I heard in Atttude Song but nothing, and I mean NOTHING else he did touched me in any way other than " boy, he sho're can play fast". Technically he was VERY impressive but I don't throw on Steve Vai CD's very much at all.  Just my opinion. Not a character flaw to think that, nor to think that he's the most emotional player on the planet. I love to play fast. And when I do, part of the reason I do, is because of what I'm feeling at the time so when I do play fast, I am playing with feeling and I can only assume the same is true for all of the aforementioned players. But if I were to play a recording of my noodlings would people feel the emotion I was feeling or just think "gee, golly he sho're plays fast". Unfortunately for my ego, I'm afraid it's probably the latter. Just food for thought.  I mean no malice by this post.

My favorite players blends tasteful licks with speed. I love a melodic player that has speed burst. That is the best of both worlds.  I love old Dream Theater and not so much their new stuff. John in 90's would play a moderate speed melodic lick then play blistering burst in between some of the passages. Tom Quayle is an excellent player. He does this well.   

[ozbadman]

My favorite players blends tasteful licks with speed. I love a melodic player that has speed burst. That is the best of both worlds.  I love old Dream Theater and not so much their new stuff. John in 90's would play a moderate speed melodic lick then play blistering burst in between some of the passages. Tom Quayle is an excellent player. He does this well.   

 

And a bit of a curve-ball, Tommy Emmanuel does this well.

[Solei]

Like some fusion and modern jazz tones like

 

Mike Stern

 

Tom Quayle

 

Allan Holdsworth

T.c electronic and Wampler style pedal stuff to !

also if u could run like a warm pad (synth sound), on one chain linked to a guitar tone ( like when using gk3 roland midi setup)!!

;-)

 

[kinglerxt]

Like some fusion and modern jazz tones like

 

Mike Stern

 

Tom Quayle

 

Allan Holdsworth

 

T.c electronic and Wampler style pedal stuff to !

 

also if u could run like a warm pad (synth sound), on one chain linked to a guitar tone ( like when using gk3 roland midi setup)!!

 

;-)

 this might help you for Alan Holdsworth amp settings for his tone:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/cc/49/5b/cc495bf7217989266eb7347429ec9ea1.png

[spikey]

This "soul" crap is getting old. Its just emotion, and plenty of the faster players have plenty of it.  Most of this (but they don't have "soul") crap comes from envy, more than anything, and its quite sad.

 

(Slow= "soulful" / fast=wanking) is a childish look on music, and guitarists. 

 

For me only I cant play like either one, butttt, if I stayed on the island and could only choose either Eddie or Stevie Ray, Id choose SRV every day and twice on Sunday. As always YMMV and thats ok too.  :)

[roscoe5]

Yes I know. Some people on this thread may 'have not' already heard the tones linked to; that was my only intent, so that they (1) could hear the best variety of tones demoed so far and (2) not request similar tones on this thread.

 

I didn't know that those were made with Helix!  Thanks!

[duncann]

Old thread. Necromancy! :lol:

 

Tone for tone's sake can be interesting, but quickly becomes boring. The tone I like to hear from Helix is one where every single note played, whether fast or slow, is the event at the occurring time, speaking from a guitar player's perspective. The event conveys emotion and the emotion is connected to something in the real world. Or an imagined world that's derived from the real. Gobbledygook! In other words, whatever the tone happens to be, it won't matter unless there's meaning behind what that tone allows you to do.

 

I do find that the tones Helix is capable of makes attaching meaning behind every note a bit easier than say, well, take your pick. For me it's the HD because that's all I had before Helix.

[Lachdanan0121]

For me only I cant play like either one, butttt, if I stayed on the island and could only choose either Eddie or Stevie Ray, Id choose SRV every day and twice on Sunday. As always YMMV and thats ok too.  :)

Obviously MDV. If I was stuck with that island decision, I'd bite a bullet, and thats ok too.

[spikey]

MDV? Money Drugs and Violence? Moldavian Airlines? Meridian Display Vehicle? Milk vetch dwarf virus?

[Lachdanan0121]

MDV? Money Drugs and Violence? Moldavian Airlines? Meridian Display Vehicle? Milk vetch dwarf virus?

yea sure all of that lol.

No it was just Milage Does Vary.

[agentprinting]

I'm new to the Helix and this forum, but in my short time with it, I would have to say I would like:

 

1) A solid Frusciante patch.  I don't think this is too hard to get to, I just haven't put the time in yet.

 

2) An ultra clean & jangly Johnny Marr tone

 

3) More ambient and melodic tones.

 

4) Acoustic patches (with various IRs)