External Expression Pedal Calibration?

[spiderone]

I remember it being mentioned several times that the Helix has calibration for external expression pedals.  I can't seem to find it anywhere in the manual or menus.

 

I have 2 Ernie Ball volume pedals connected with insert cables; on both the sweep dips back down as I go fully toward the toe.  So like this:

 

0% on pedal (Heel down) = 0% on Helix

25% pedal = 25% Helix

50% pedal = 50% Helix

85% pedal = 100% Helix

100% pedal = 70% Helix

 

 

I feel like I'm not explaining it very well, but any help is appreciated.

[phil_m]

At one point during the firmware development, there was a calibration procedure for external pedals, but then they decided to just make it automatic. The Helix just calibrates them when you plug them in. So when you say you're using insert cables, do you mean you're hooking them up like shown here?

 

http://www.strymon.net/tag/expression-pedal/

 

The Helix doesn't work the same way. It just is looking for a TS connection, not a TRS. With the Ernie Ball pedals, I think you would just take a TS cable from the output to the Helix's expression pedal input.

[spiderone]

Thanks Phil, that was it!

[BigRalphN]

Ya. I plugged my Mission Enginerring pedal and it auto made it pedal one/ volume. Rocked it up and down and it seemed to calibrate itself. I haven't dove in enough to set the other as a wah yet. On a break now as my back was killing me.

[Johnny2Shoes]

Hey guys. I'm still having trouble getting my external exp pedals to work properly. I have a Boss FV30H and an FV500H.

 

I get the same sort of issue spiderone described when using a TS cable from the output on both. At Heel it's 0% & it sweeps fine to a point around about 70ish% on the pedal but the helix reads it at 100% and then as I keep pushing the toe down it starts reversing the values going down to 16% on the helix when I have the Toe right down. That's with the FV30H. With the fv500h it's the same but at Toe down the helix reads it at 28%. From heel to toe on the exp pedal it sweeps from 0-100-16%(FV30) or 28%(FV500H) respectively.

 

Using a Y TRS cable on both I can get so e better results but I'm not sure if that's normal operation. I have to swap the tip and ring cables into the opposite if what I normally do in other devices like my HD500X or my Tc electronics nova system - with them the tip goes into the output and the ring to the input of the exp pedal. With the helix I need to plug it the other way and then the Heel is 100% & Toe is 0% for the FV30H only. Then if I go to controller assign and set min to 100% and max to 0% it works for the FV30H only. It also doesn't seem to be normal operation but the only work around for that pedal.

 

For the FV500H I tried the same thing but at Toe it won't go passed 80% unless I put all my weight on it and bend the die cast metal. When I get off it bends back and goes to 80% again. Having a calibration option would be good in this case.

 

The last option I have for this pedal it the dedicated exp out (FV500h) connected to a 10k pot. Using either TRS or TS cable the Heel to Toe sweep is from 0-100-0% reaching the 100% about halfway through the sweep. My work around is to set the values in the helix of the controller assign from min =100% & max = 0% making the sweep from Heel to Toe 100%-0-100%. Then I use the min max dial on the FV500H and bring the first half of the sweep up til at heel it reads 0% on the helix. Then pedal sweeps more or less normally but I can't use the min max dial on the FV500H to bring the Heel value up as is normal operation. As I bring the dial up the helix slowly goes from 100% to 0% at Heel position but then continuing to bring the dial up to max doesn't start increasing the value a regular sweep with the min max dial at min, would if you take my meaning. Basically it's a work around but it's not normal operation.

 

So am I doing something wrong or is there another way? I didn't understand the strymon link re exp pedals achieving a resolution.

Anywho, help please =)

[glideman]

Have the same problem with an FV-500H...  I finally gave up and have ordered a Mission EP1-L6.   I'll find

out how that works next Tuesday (everyone here has success with this pedal since it's made for Line 6 products).

[jaminjimlp]

From:

http://missionengineering.com/

 Wiring.
Most potentiometers have three connectors; Clockwise, Counter-clockwise, and Wiper. Amazingly, there are multiple different ways these can be wired, all achieving largely the same result, which means yet more variations for expression pedals. The most common expression pedal wiring is to connect the pot to a 1/4″ stereo (TRS) instrument jack as follows:

CW —— Sleeve
Wiper — Tip
CCW —– Ring

An alternative is with the tip and the ring reversed as follows:

CW —— Sleeve
Wiper — Ring
CCW —– Tip

Yet a third way is as follows:

CW —— Sleeve
Wiper — Tip
CCW —– Tip

 

In this last one, the wiper and CCW are bonded together and connected to the tip and the ring is unused. This requires the use of a mono (TS) cable such as a regular guitar cable, in place of the stereo (TRS) cable used in the other two. These three are the most common that we see in expression pedals, but we keep finding more. Sometimes a dual gang potentiometer is wired in parallel to create a single pot with half the resistance. For example you may see a dual 20K Ohm potentiometer bridged into a single 10K. In this case the pedal will function the same as if it were a native 10K Ohm single pot.

.....................................

 

OK so now we know we can do this:

 

This also alleviated the backwards operation problem and the 0 - 100 - 0 problem...

 

The third way is the Line 6 way. (after some google searches I found this out)

 

which means after the conversion you don't need to use TRS cables anymore you can use TS cables. Also now with either the 12k ohm pot in the one and the 10k ohm pot in the other I get full 0% to 100% on the Helix control.

here is what I did to make mine compatible so there would be no need for re configuring. the Potenteiometer on this 1 is 10k

Here is before

here is after... so just moving 1 wire (the green/ring) and put it together with the (red/Tip) and the (black/sleeve) stays the same.

also I jumped out the black on the side pot that is for changing the "throw" of it to disable it and not doing it made it have issues when you adjusted it it would not go back to full throw. (If that makes any scents to you)

My other one

here is after... so just moving 1 wire (the green/ring) and put it together with the (red/Tip) and the (black/sleeve) stays the same.

 

this model had a duel 24k pot and I soldered each connection 1,2 and 3 to 1,2 and 3 (you see it better in the picture above) making it a single 12k pot

 

This can be done with a soldering iron with no extra solder. just heat up the green wire pull it off and put it on with the red and heat it up to connect it. 

 

 

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

any 10k or 12k ohm pot can be used to make your peddle work

I am re-posting this from another thread on the same thing

[Johnny2Shoes]

Yeah.. The BOSS volume pedals I'm using have sealed jacks so you can't access the wiring. Also being volume pedals I'd be worried to rewire them as I used them as volume pedals as well as expression pedals. One has the exp jack which links it to the 10k pot but again it's a sealed input jack so I can't access the wires. Thanks though.

 

I think these BOSS pedals operate pretty much the same as the Ernie Ball Viper Jr with 250k pots and the fv 500H has the 10k pot exp jack for a TRS cable. People seem to be more familiar with the ernie ball range so maybe that'll help if anyone with one of them has found a solution. I guess my disappointment is that they worked with the HD500X no problem.

 

Also having a manual calibration process in the helix so it remains fixed after its set would solve some of my problems.

 

Closest thing I have gotten is using the TRS Y cable on the FV30H (250k pot) tip - input, ring - output (this is the reverse of normal and worked better than with a TS cable in the Helix) and reversing the min and max values I. The Helix's controller assign. Problem here is that the Toe position starts at 100% but after a sweep or 2 it starts to recalibrate and doesn't go all the way. This approach is much worse on the FV500H, with Toe position maxing out at 80%. In both cases the Toe position keeps shifting like the helix is constantly re-calibrating.

 

So a fixed manual calibration rather than auto calibration should fix that.

 

Using the exp jack (10k pot) on the FV500H and a TRS cable (doesn't work with a TS) reversing the min max values on the helix in "controller assign" & then dialling up the Heel dial on the volume pedal til the value reads as 0% is the only way I could get that to work as an exp, but the min - max dial on the FV500H after it is used to achieve the 0% Heel won't work to increase it passed 0% rendering it ineffective as per normal operation. It's a work around but not the best scenario. It's also more stable than the Y cable method in terms of the Helix trying to recalibrate constantly. Not 100% but more stable

 

It'd be great if they brought back the manual calibration process so it remained fixed once set. Also I guess I don't understand why it worked fine with the HD500X and not the Helix since the same mission pedals are supposed to work with both.

 

If anyone has any more answers or suggestions I'd appreciate it. I don't want to buy another set of exp pedals since I have these 2 a D the Helix emptied my account.

 

With the exception of that and my wish list for some greater variety of the fx it's a great unit. Amp sims are amazing and responsive.

 

Wish it had:

Phaser with 4, 8, 12, 16 stage parameter.

Seeker or a phase step arpeggiator

The original Line 6 Distortion and Overdrive

that were in the M series and HD series. They were great quality fx and versatile. I digress. Any more help with these exp pedals would be great.

[PiFromBRC]

Wish it had:

Phaser with 4, 8, 12, 16 stage parameter.

Seeker or a phase step arpeggiator

The original Line 6 Distortion and Overdrive

that were in the M series and HD series. They were great quality fx and versatile. I digress. Any more help with these exp pedals would be great.

 

 

Not to thread jack, but I agree that there are some fx on the hd which I find better than that which is on the Helix.  I've been slowly boning up on the whole MIDI thing to use the HD as a slaved unit off of the Helix.  I've had a couple of successes, and I suggest you give it a try.

 

That said, a couple of the updates in the 1.06 FW update sound promising. We shall see.

[Johnny2Shoes]

Not to thread jack, but I agree that there are some fx on the hd which I find better than that which is on the Helix.  I've been slowly boning up on the whole MIDI thing to use the HD as a slaved unit off of the Helix.  I've had a couple of successes, and I suggest you give it a try.

 

That said, a couple of the updates in the 1.06 FW update sound promising. We shall see.

I didn't want to carry around 2 units to gigs. I have little pedal board made from a ikea chopping board, rubber feet, rubber sheet and 2 door handles which has my extras I used to use with the HD500X (mxr noise gate, mooer yellow comp, smallstone phaser, tc reverb strymon reverb) and that was annoying enough to set up and eventually worked out a suitable way to get my HD500X to have all my usual fx in one patch. I just thought with the greater capacity of fx in a chain, the helix would be an all in one. It certainly has the potential as soon as they put some of those cool fx into it. I do look forward to future updates. I think they may have caught vintage fever where nostalgia took over and they thought only fx from the 70's are appealing. I like a lot of that stuff but I like a lot of modern, and even digital sounding fx (not all) but I like options.

 

Hopefully a return to manual Exp pedal calibration. Or an override choice between manual and auto. With a powerful unit like the helix, variety is the key.

[garymwest]

I used a old fv300 for years as a exp pedal on my HD500 it would go past 100% so I drilled a hole towards the tip and put a drywall screw through as a stop. Not the most elegant but worked perfect and could fine adjust to +-1% B)

[PiFromBRC]

I used a old fv300 for years as a exp pedal on my HD500 it would go past 100% so I drilled a hole towards the tip and put a drywall screw through as a stop. Not the most elegant but worked perfect and could fine adjust to +-1% B)

 

That is a hilarious hack.  Very Adam Jones-ish. :lol:

[jammyster]

I've always used a Korg EXP-2 with my HD-500 and now my HD-500X.  I like it because I usually use it to control a rotary speaker sound.  The EXP-2 has a volume control on the side of it that I can set the limit with and I can use it with a TRS cable. 

-Mark Megill
Wiener Hill Studio

[FlyingsCool]

Whatchyaneedtodo is search the database here....  there's a post that goes into quite a bit of detail over how to create the correct cables for the various pedals out there, and how to mod your pedals.

I use a couple BOSS FV-500H's.  I created a couple of cables that are TRS on one side (I plug that into the BOSS pedal), and TS on the other.  Basically, I had an electrical engineer friend of mine clip the correct line on one side of the cable.  Sadly, I always forget which the correct line is, and when I tried to do it myself the first time, I did it backwards :(

So... Don't clip the wrong line or it won't work, haha.  But there's a bunch of people here who have described exactly what to do.

[FlyingsCool]

So I searched,  here's one post of a billion out there that discuss this...

https://line6.com/support/topic/18089-compatible-expression-pedals/?do=findComment&comment=208577

Ya wanna clip the ring lead.  It probably doesn't matter which end you plug in which.  I just put the TRS in the pedal for consistency.

[spikey]

So with Helix doing the "auto Calibration", theres really no way to zero out the controllers. It is what Helix says it is. For instance and IIRC, my SP1-L6 at heel down is at 11%.

 

Moot point- Not that it messes with anything tone wise, but I would prefer to set/reset these settings myself, along with the % that it would engage the Wah, via a software menu in the editor. As expressed in the past, others here don't feel the need for that kind of control, but Id love to see it happen at some point (if it involves the tone of the FX/patch). MORE OPTIONS- Always... 

[plexi71]

I use a FV-500H with a standard TRS cable from EXP out to EXT2 on the Helix.

The trick is to set the side pot "minimum volume" to MAX on the pedal and reverse the Controller Assign parameters, set Max Value for the minimum et Min Value for the maximum.

[Johnny2Shoes]

12 hours ago, plexi71 said:

I use a FV-500H with a standard TRS cable from EXP out to EXT2 on the Helix.

The trick is to set the side pot "minimum volume" to MAX on the pedal and reverse the Controller Assign parameters, set Max Value for the minimum et Min Value for the maximum.

I worked this out a while back. lol  and forgot this thread existed.  So confirming the above ^^

There is also an option to change the polarity now on the helix with expression pedals rather than swapping the min to 100 and the max to 0 of the expression pedal parameters on the Helix. Not sure it would work for another EXP pedal but it certainly does with he BOSS FV500H with of the min max dial on the side of the pedal set to max and the helix paramater set to reverse polarity.

[mrluisrodriguez]

On 3/17/2018 at 5:44 AM, plexi71 said:

I use a FV-500H with a standard TRS cable from EXP out to EXT2 on the Helix.

The trick is to set the side pot "minimum volume" to MAX on the pedal and reverse the Controller Assign parameters, set Max Value for the minimum et Min Value for the maximum.

Literally signed up to confirm the above. Thank you for this!

[plexi71]

You're welcome :)

[BMALBUM]

Hello.

 

Having the same problème with the Rolland EV-5 exp.

Solved with INVERT parameters in the exp global parameters. 

Look if your pedal has different mode or , button or level button.

BM

[Gixxernutta]

I had an Ernie Ball in EXP2 and I absolutely hated the way it handled volume swells, it just sounded  sort of digital, the gain doesn't clean up properly when you roll the volume off, and the majority of the volume gain was in the first 40% of the sweep. I solved it by putting the vol pedal before the helix... much more musical :)