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jpdennis

To Z or not to Z

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Well, after a long day and the thought to go to bed early ... I played with the Guitar-In Z.  You'd think I couldn't beat a dead horse, but wait ... It is working!!  OK, maybe not way I'd like it but here is what I found so far. 

 

If I set Guitar-In Z as an adjustable parameter it can be accurately saved in all 8 snapshots within the presets I have imported which I built in the previous FW version.  Now when I go to another preset then comeback to the one I just modified all 8 snapshots still have the saved value AND they sound accurate.  BUT, here is the rub ... As I said the snapshots have the correct value and the correct sound ... including snapshot 1

 

It is the preset that I initially switch back to after saving all snapshots that is harsh with the sound of the "auto" value for the Guitar-in Z value.  Yet if I then choose any of the 8 snapshots they are all fine.  Not sure but my thinking is that somehow the preset built in a FW that did not have snapshots is like the ghost in the machine.  It is there, it says snapshot 1, but it really isn't snapshot 1 until you use the FS to chose it as snapshot 1.  Note I did save the preset twice before starting this testing.

 

WHAT I HAVE NOT DONE;

 

I haven't created a preset from scratch in the new FW 2.00 with or without the 2.00.1 editor.  So my theory could be inaccurate based upon incomplete testing.

 

I am beat and have to get ready for a State DMV license renewal so I'm calling it a night.  More later unless someone else would like to do what I haven't yet.

 

Thoughts from anyone?

 

Dennis

 

PS:  Line 6 did a hell of a job with this FW and App version.  So, at the end of the day ... Thank you Line 6 for getting this out and letting me if not us get the scenes everyone has been asking for.

 

PPS:  DI, jpdennis like snapshots (the tonality of my voice is likened to Cookie Monster) :rolleyes:

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Sounds like you're chasing it down.  If I recall, you can save a patch on a snapshot other than 1.  Save patch with snapshot 2 selected and see if your results above are the same.  If so, then the input impedance is not loading with the patch but works fine once the state is changed.

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Sounds like you're chasing it down.  If I recall, you can save a patch on a snapshot other than 1.  Save patch with snapshot 2 selected and see if your results above are the same.  If so, then the input impedance is not loading with the patch but works fine once the state is changed.

 

Yep.  I saved in every snapshot.  All 8 snapshots are fine.

 

Dennis

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If you create a brand new preset the same thing happens.  The preset will not save the Guitar-In Z but the snapshots will.  I'm going to re-read through the whole manual to see if there is something in it that states that is how it should work; just to be safe.

 

Dennis

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Found this on page twenty of the version 2.00 manual;

 

"All input blocks have a dedicated noise gate. Threshold and Decay parameters are grayed out unless the Input Gate parameter is turned on:"

 

The next sentence after the graphical display goes on to say that;

 

"Guitar blocks have an additional Guitar In-Z parameter."  From what I am reading while this is specific for the guitar block it is not dedicated to the input block which is why I cannot use the copy block feature to copy the Z value.  I get the gate values to copy fine because they are dedicated to the input block itself regardless of type of input block.

 

Thoughts?

 

Dennis

 

PS: Still reading

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I wonder - set go 'Guitar' instead of 'Multi' to see the result perhaps?

Based on the above, which is an intriguing observation, and leads me directly to my suggestion directly above.

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I commented on this issue in another thread. I hadn't realised the guitar impedance parameter worked when selected for snapshot control (under Controller Assign), and it's great that there is now a valid workaround until Line 6 can fix the issue in a future update. Thanks for the information!

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I wonder - set go 'Guitar' instead of 'Multi' to see the result perhaps?

Based on the above, which is an intriguing observation, and leads me directly to my suggestion directly above.

 

Thanks for the idea.  However, I tried both ways.  Using guitar is the only way you can get to the Guitar in-Z value anyway.

 

Dennis

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Yep.  I saved in every snapshot.  All 8 snapshots are fine.

 

Dennis

 

 

Thanks for the idea.  However, I tried both ways.  Using guitar is the only way you can get to the Guitar in-Z value anyway.

 

Dennis

 

Got the Helix fired up this morning.   The Guitar IN-Z can be accessed in Guitar or Multi (which includes guitar)

 

I did the snapshot save.  However, when I load the patch I have the same issue (displays 10k but doesn't set impedance there.) As soon as I select any snapshot (including the snapshot that loads in saved state,) the impedance is then correct.  So if i save 10k on snapshot 2 and save the patch, when i select the patch it loads with snapshot 2 and  displays 10k, but it's not actually 10k until I select snapshot 2 (or another.)

 

I have Guitar IN-Z selected in the snapshots controller, and have same results with either guitar input or Multi.

 

So, as far as I can tell, 1 extra footswitch tap after you load the patch gets you where you want to be, which is probably workable until the bug is fixed.

 

Texasdave

 

 

Texasdave

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Got the Helix fired up this morning.   The Guitar IN-Z can be accessed in Guitar or Multi (which includes guitar)

 

I did the snapshot save.  However, when I load the patch I have the same issue (displays 10k but doesn't set impedance there.) As soon as I select any snapshot (including the snapshot that loads in saved state,) the impedance is then correct.  So if i save 10k on snapshot 2 and save the patch, when i select the patch it loads with snapshot 2 and  displays 10k, but it's not actually 10k until I select snapshot 2 (or another.)

 

I have Guitar IN-Z selected in the snapshots controller, and have same results with either guitar input or Multi.

 

So, as far as I can tell, 1 extra footswitch tap after you load the patch gets you where you want to be, which is probably workable until the bug is fixed.

 

Texasdave

 

 

Texasdave

 

I just got confirmation from Line 6 support they are recognizing this as a bug and will be addressed in the next FW update.

 

Dennis

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So what's the score with this?

 

What will happen when I select a new preset?  What impedance setting will be loaded?  Is there no way to set it?  

 

You are essentially saying I can't save the Guitar Z with the preset, because nothing happens till you select a snapshot right?

So what will happen now?

 

I was using 1Meg for my presets on 1.12 and was happy with that - with the new functionality I might try experimenting with lower z for fuzz, but it seems it's a bit of a mess!

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I don't have the tools rea to measure input impedance and I don't know what it's defaulting to, but prob still close to 1M or Auto.  If you have to have it, snapshot or assigning a footswitch to it near-term is probably the most elegant solution.  Now we know it's in the "FIX" box.  

As to the fuzz you mention above,  in theory if fuzz is the first block in your patch, the "Auto" should put you at the correct impedance…once we know that Auto is loading ;)

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So what's the score with this?

 

What will happen when I select a new preset?  What impedance setting will be loaded?  Is there no way to set it?  

 

You are essentially saying I can't save the Guitar Z with the preset, because nothing happens till you select a snapshot right?

So what will happen now?

 

I was using 1Meg for my presets on 1.12 and was happy with that - with the new functionality I might try experimenting with lower z for fuzz, but it seems it's a bit of a mess!

 

First I would sample the initial sound when you change to a preset and after strumming your instrument change the setting to auto, strum, then to 1Meg and strum. If you hear no difference your OK for now.  But if you do then ... Yes you'll have to set the snapshots at 1 Meg (make sure to push and twist the Z value knob so it is a variable in all the presets).  And even when you go back to the initial preset from another p[reset it will be in Auto even though you have a specific setting which will activate when you then choose a snapshot.

 

This has been identified as a bug, it is reported, and it is supposed to be addressed in the next FW upgrade.  That is what I was told today.

 

Dennis

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It is of interest to me that any patch that has the input block highlighted when saved also will appear as edited when it is turned on and/or chosen.  If I highlight any other block location (used or not by a FX) the preset will not exhibit that behavior.

 

Dennis

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I just got confirmation from Line 6 support they are recognizing this as a bug and will be addressed in the next FW update.

 

Dennis

 

YAY!!! Thanks guys for this. You guys should be on the payroll!  :lol:

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YAY!!! Thanks guys for this. You guys should be on the payroll!  :lol:

 

One is glad to be of service  ... {shout out to Robin Williams}

 

Dennis

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I did the 2.0 upgrade and now have none of the IRs in the IR file. Where did they go? I know I'm being dumb I thought I backed up everything before doing the ugrade but now there are no IR's in the IR list.  Help someone!!?!?!? :wacko: I'm new to all of this and lost in space!! :ph34r:

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I did the 2.0 upgrade and now have none of the IRs in the IR file. Where did they go? I know I'm being dumb I thought I backed up everything before doing the ugrade but now there are no IR's in the IR list.  Help someone!!?!?!? :wacko: I'm new to all of this and lost in space!! :ph34r:

 

You probably ran the 9&10 footswitch global reset after upgrading.  This clears the IRs from the Helix. You will need to restore them from your PC with the Helix Editor.

 

This page details what the reset options do: http://helixhelp.com/pmwiki.php?n=Main.ResetOptions

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Thanks for the reply but I still can't find the factory IRs anywhere?? They are not in the documents IR folder from my backup and I can't find them anywhere else? Do you know where I can get them and how I am supposed to reinstall them??

Another issue I now am noticing is that every time I power on the Helix it goes through the process of rebuilding Presets and starts counting through them. Takes a minute or two to boot the Helix unit. Is this correct? I don't remember it doing this prior to the 2.0 upgrade. It seemed to boot much faster and I don't remember it counting presets?

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Thanks for the reply but I still can't find the factory IRs anywhere?? They are not in the documents IR folder from my backup and I can't find them anywhere else? Another issue I now am noticing is that every time I power on the Helix it goes through the process of rebuilding Presets and starts counting through them. Takes a minute or two to boot the Helix unit. Is this correct? I don't remember it doing this prior to the 2.0 upgrade. It seemed to boot much faster and I don't remember it counting presets?

there are no factory IRs. Just cab models.

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Maybe it's the cab models I'm missing? There were several in the IR list I think they said something 2x12 and 4x12 with the numbers 1000 and 2000? Associated with them?

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I did the 2.0 upgrade and now have none of the IRs in the IR file. Where did they go? I know I'm being dumb I thought I backed up everything before doing the ugrade but now there are no IR's in the IR list. Help someone!!?!?!? :wacko: I'm new to all of this and lost in space!! :ph34r:

Maybe it's the cab models I'm missing? There were several in the IR list I think they said something 2x12 and 4x12 with the numbers 1000 and 2000? Associated with them?

You won't be missing the cab models as they install automatically when you do a Helix firmware upgrade and are part of the Helix's standard firmware. If you did not back up your IRs (which are basically third party mike'd cab models) however, and you do not have them on your PC, then unfortunately they are gone. The only way you would have had IRs on your Helix is if you previously installed them or if you got your Helix used and someone else installed them (no IRs currently come from Line6 pre-installed on the Helix). You will have to go back to whatever source you got them from originally and reinstall them. You use the Helix Editor to install and backup IRs. The IRs need to be backed up separately and additionally to the presets.

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