What's Happening With The M20D?

[StuMur]

It's been 3 years now... Is anything at all happening with the M20D? Any firmware updates planned.. any new patches being developed.. anything that resembles development, evolution, or even interest of any type?

 

Could one of you Line 6 Techs, just one time, throw us one scrap of information on it?

[Rewolf48]

I would be amazed if anybody from Line 6 replied - they never say anything specific about future plans (for legal reasons).

 

The only thing we know is that it is still listed as a current product on the website.

[cruisinon2]

It's been 3 years now... Is anything at all happening with the M20D? Any firmware updates planned.. any new patches being developed.. anything that resembles development, evolution, or even interest of any type?

 

Could one of you Line 6 Techs, just one time, throw us one scrap of information on it?

Sure they could...but probably won't. You'll have better luck calling up the NSA and asking for a tour of the grounds.

[ncockerill]

Come on, Line 6. I am as faithful a consumer as you will find, having owned every Pod since the bean, an M13, M9, several Flextones, and now a Helix. I currently run my band setup with a Stagescape M20d, (2) stagesource L3s subs and (2) stagesource L3t's. I've probably spent close to $10k on Line 6 products over the past 12 years.

 

Can you at least update your faithful customers on the current status of development of the very expensive M20d? Even if the news is bad -- like development has ceased and there will be no updates past v1.20.......sure seems that way.

 

We invested in a $1500 mixer. Doesn't our loyalty and support warrant some kind of acknowledgement or response???

[66d35]

As long as your mixer still does what it did when you bought it....

 

If you want "more" then look at changing it for something else, though I have to say (owning several different digital consoles) the M20D is quite a ways out ahead of most of them, despite the fact that the others are more recent releases.

 

What exactly do you want it to do that it does not do already?

[ncockerill]

I am not unhappy with the M20d, but at firmware v1.2, there are still many bugs as yet unaddressed. And sure, some new features here and there couldn't hurt. For one, the ability to copy/paste mixes to/from various outputs would be great. The $500 Mackie DL1608 does this beautifully ---- get a great FOH mix? Just copy/paste it to the monitors and IEM aux sends........

 

I don't think it's unreasonable for loyal customers to ask a company for a product update. Or even some acknowledgment that we've asked. Repeatedly.

[altorna]

I've not had a chance to use my m20D extensively.  But both Support and Sales have responded to my questions and concerns. 

[davec69]

Search the forum, and you'll find countless posts with this same topic.  Going back for years.   It's not going to happen.  Yamaha bought Line 6.   I'm guessing that they would rather focus on Yamaha Live Sound products, leaving M20D owners to wonder what might have been.  

 

Ask the M20D owners who have been waiting years for an Android app for the M20D, or those owners who posted hundreds of Ideas on the Ideascale page for the M20D.  None of which has been developed.

 

Then you have responses like the one below.

.

As long as your mixer still does what it did when you bought it....

 

If you want "more" then look at changing it for something else, though I have to say (owning several different digital consoles) the M20D is quite a ways out ahead of most of them, despite the fact that the others are more recent releases.

 

What exactly do you want it to do that it does not do already?

[66d35]

I think we just have to get used to the idea that this product is not constantly evolving. It it what it is. Line 6 seem to have no active interest in it to speak of, and I agree that expecting much - if anything at all - in the way of 'updates' is a forlorn hope. Despite that, comparing directly with other mixers in the same kind of range, it still has several really outstanding features and it performs extremely well. It is quite a bit more advanced in various respects than my QSC Touchmix, for example (built-in channel independent AFS, more EQ options, including dynamic EQ, RTA, and full recall of preamp gain with auto trim and trim tracking... all very sophisticated features that I am not sure anything else like it has, even now).

[quadcabby]

I love the M20D but I suspect that Yamaha purchased Line 6 for its own interests. We will more than likely see a Yamaha branded product as the item to supersede the M20, with a L6 Link compatibility to appease those who've spent money on equipment with this feature. As soon as the Standard appeared some of the JTV models were discontinued and I can see that trend continuing. I have spoken with local dealers who have been completely ignored by Line 6 since the Yamaha take over, even though they had spent large amounts (over 30K in one instance) to become Line 6 dealers within months of the take over. It's bad practice but seen as great business. I still love my Line 6 gear and hope I'm just being overly cynical.

[StuMur]

What about open-sourcing the o/s, so enthusiastic boffins can develop their own killer features? Goddammit, what a waste.

[hspeulman]

Also, a signal from Europe, the Netherlands.

Two years ago an expensive and functioning mixer built exchange for Stage Cape. With the hope that we would get a good support on the mixer. In time new firmware. Line6 and Yamaha have lollipop on loyal customers now appears. I think it's outrageous. If I had known beforehand I was not switched on Line 6. Although I am very satisfied with my Line 6 Stage Cape, I had not made this investment.

Come on product sponsors. Help us !!!

 

Henk S.

[rimrocked]

It's official, Yamaha has discontinued the entire Dreamscape system. Mixer, speakers etc. I invested $10k in a system and company that took the money and buried the future of the equipment. I made the major change in 2012 and I traded in my entire Yorkville Unity system (still actively sold and serviced today) under the understanding the software fof both mixer and speakers would be improved and widened to include both iOS and Android. As someone that gigs professionally I would never have invested $10k in a new system knowing it was on the brink of being discontinued. Thanks a lot Line6 and Yamaha, time to sell our systems and invest in QSC or Mackie.

[Rewolf48]

Where did you get this from?

 

Nobody has told the Line 6 website - if I go to http://line6.com/products/ the top of the page is taken up with the M20d and the StageSource speakers and you have to scroll down quite a way to find the first non PA gear.

[SiWatts69]

It's official, Yamaha has discontinued the entire Dreamscape system. Mixer, speakers etc.

Really. Can you point us all to the "source" of this gem?

 

I invested $10k in a system and company that took the money and buried the future of the equipment. I made the major change in 2012 and I traded in my entire Yorkville Unity system (still actively sold and serviced today) under the understanding the software fof both mixer and speakers would be improved and widened to include both iOS and Android.

If you bought on an understanding that your system would be upgraded then your argument is with the vendors, not with Line6.

It's been said several times over... Does your rig still do what it did when you bought it? If so, you have got what you paid for. Nothing more and nothing less.

 

As someone that gigs professionally I would never have invested $10k in a new system knowing it was on the brink of being discontinued. Thanks a lot Line6 and Yamaha, time to sell our systems and invest in QSC or Mackie.

You can sell yours. Perhaps I'll make a bid for some of your rig because I still have a system I paid for three years ago that functions flawlessly, delivers stellar audio quality and does so without the added headaches of analog systems.

 

Digital isn't new, but digital at the level of the M20 is still in its infancy and Line6 were the first to take it mainstream and the system still leaves the competitors behind, even now after 3 years without improvement. Expecting any product of this nature to be maintained ad-infinitum at a manufacturers expense is plain daft.

[silverhead]

It's official, Yamaha has discontinued the entire Dreamscape system. Mixer, speakers etc. I invested $10k in a system and company that took the money and buried the future of the equipment. I made the major change in 2012 and I traded in my entire Yorkville Unity system (still actively sold and serviced today) under the understanding the software fof both mixer and speakers would be improved and widened to include both iOS and Android. As someone that gigs professionally I would never have invested $10k in a new system knowing it was on the brink of being discontinued. Thanks a lot Line6 and Yamaha, time to sell our systems and invest in QSC or Mackie.

Like SiWatts69 I would also be very interested in where you found your 'official' information. Like your Yorkville Unity system, the M20d and the SatageSource speakers are still actively sold and serviced today afaik (pending verification of your 'official' info).

 

As for ongoing improvement of mixers and speakers, there was a major update after the initial release. As for Android support - again, please point us to a Line 6 announcement or statement that this was ever indicated. What's the basis of your 'understanding'? If it was an assumption on your part, that's not Line 6's fault.

[psarkissian]

Don't know what this Yamaha Dreamscape system is. Can't find it on the web, or the Yamaha site.

rimrocked,... are you referring to the,...

http://www.dreamscaperecording.net/equipment/

... system? If so, this is not a Line 6 product or product line. You must be thinking of the Line 6
Stagesource and Stagescape, those have mixers and speakers, and are not Yamaha products.
Not all of the components in this "Dreamscape" are Yamaha.

Apparently some confusion as to what's what here. This "Dreamscape system" is not a Line 6
product line, or I'd be one of the techs servicing it.

Don't know why he would blame Line 6 for a product line that isn't even a Line 6 product line.
 

[rimrocked]

In Canada we are being told the Line 6 dreamscape system has been discontinued. The source is both Long and McQuade and Yorkville. The lame explanation we got was that Yamaha bought Line 6 and decided to kill the Dreamscape system. I have been in touch with Steven Bartkoski of Line 6 and he assured me the information we received in incorrect. He is contacting Yorkville and Long and Mcquade today to make sure this miss-information doesn't continue. My apologies to the moderator and the community.  

[SiWatts69]

In Canada we are being told the Line 6 dreamscape system has been discontinued. The source is both Long and McQuade and Yorkville. The lame explanation we got was that Yamaha bought Line 6 and decided to kill the Dreamscape system. I have been in touch with Steven Bartkoski of Line 6 and he assured me the information we received in incorrect. He is contacting Yorkville and Long and Mcquade today to make sure this miss-information doesn't continue. My apologies to the moderator and the community.

Once again though.... there is no such thing as the "Line 6 dreamscape system"

 

The M20d is codenamed "StageScape"

The L2 and L3 series speakers are "StageSource"

 

Collectively, the mixer and speakers combined into a full PA rig is referred to as the "Dreamstage" though I believe this also applies to combinations of L2/L3 speakers and some of the POD/Helix etc

[Rewolf48]

JTV + PodHD + DT (Amp) is Dream Rig as originally defined

 

Bits of this can be substituted - the processor for HDX (e.g. HD500X) or for Helix, and the DT Amp can be replaced by L2/L3 speaker(s)

 

My rig is JTV69 + HD500 + L2t (*2)

[SiWatts69]

Cheers Rewolf... I knew the guitar setup was Dream<something> ;-)

[psarkissian]

No problem rimrocked,... hmmm, odd, we've never referred to any of this here at Line 6

as "Dreamscape".

 

We have a "Dream Rig", as previously mentioned. Yamaha and Line 6 product lines are

independent product lines, though the Variax Standard was a collaboration. Seems to be

some confusion regarding the differences between Yamaha and Line 6 product lines.

 

Odd that Yorkville would make an error like that. I know a couple guys in the service dept

there, they know the difference between our product lines. Odd.

[rimrocked]

The name Dreamstage (or Dreamrig) kept getting auto corrected on my Mac without me realizing. Sorry for the confusion.

 

Both Yorkville and Long and Mcquade told us (the band) that our Line 6 gear was discontinued. I understand that Steve has corrected this mis-information with both.

 

As it sits right now though, I am no longer able to rent the Line 6 PA gear, nor do I get a temporary replacement on loan when any of our gear is being repaired as was the case last year.

 

I have the M20D, 4 L3t's and L3s's that we use for both mains and monitors for the band. These are all connected via the L6 link using custom made 110-ohm AES/EBU cables. We have simplified the entire stage by eliminating all other amps (stopping individuals 'cranking' their amp volume) and using only the stagesource speakers. This has really cut down on the on-stage volume and the competing between the players avoiding the "I can't hear myself", I use a voicelive 3 and a Voicesolo FX150 as my personal monitor for lead vocal and keys. We now have 1 point of volume control and mix. The sound almost perfectly mirrors the FOH sound on-stage from the monitors.

 

So while 2 of our L3t's were in for repair, I had to run two back to back gigs without monitors. Our guitar's and bass player brought in their amps to use as monitors and we had to use them for the Roland drum monitors for our drummer. Drummer complained all night the sound sucked and he could not hear himself, Guitar's screamed all night and the bass was lost :( We gig professionally and the venues have come to expect our particular sound quality. It was an unfortunate circumstance exacerbated by the lack of forethought on Long and Mcquade's and their parent company Yorkville. You can imagine our panic as we were told not only would the repairs take 2 weeks (16 days actually) but because the entire system has been discontinued there were no units available for us to even rent or take on loan. Figuring I have over $10K invested I needed to either dump and run or protect what I have as best as I could. I chose the latter and I called Line 6 to purchase a complete set of bags for our equipment in hopes that their bags would protect the equipment better than the cheap bags we are currently using. Fortunately when I mentioned my concerns to Steven Bartkoski, he promptly assured me that 'discontinued' not the case for us Canadians.

 

As it sits today, however, I cannot order anything from Line 6 directly either through them or paypal. Only those ordering from within the US are allowed. Hopefully before end of day today there will be a workaround for this too. No one in our area has the bags available and due to what ever reasoning they base their prices on, it is cheaper for me to drive down to the US and pay gas, duty, taxes and exchange rates...way to go Canada and Freetrade! I guess I'll make a weekend out of the trip and take in some local entertainment.

 

Aside from all this negativity, the system has performed flawlessly for us. As promised, the sound has continued to get better and better. The convenience of digital is un-parrellalled. Being able to adjust the sound from the audience using my wireless mic and iPad is a godsend! Using the L6 link and 32 band eq, DSP etc. has provided our band with a high quality sound I have never heard repeated live with any other equipment except for the obvious 'big players' concerts... Steely Dan and The Eagles sound is consistently amazing.

 

I've rambled on long enough. Looking forward to many more years of gig'n with Line 6 equipment and here is hoping Line 6 listen's and acts upon their users concerns and requests.

Cheers to all,

[silverhead]

I'm glad to hear that this was just confusion and that the StageScape/Source product lines are not discontinued. As a Canadian too I'm glad that this misinformation on the part of Yorkville and Long & McQuade is being cleared up.

 

I have also noticed a distinct lack of inventory with these products at both of my local L&M stores.  I haven't yet had a  a problem ordering or renting but haven't actually had the need so can't comment on the availability in those situations.

 

Thanks for your efforts in getting this cleared up.