$145 mod to fix the Helix: Whammy and Octave tracking glitch issue

[WickedFinger]

Modeling the version V Whammy with polyphonic tracking would have been much better than the early Whammy glitchout and bad octave pedals.  This placed in one of the loops eliminates the problem. Modeling old tech pedals is a ridiculous nostalgia that forces high end modeling tech to sound bad. 

[CBTL]

It's sad you had to pay out $145 when you already spent $$$$ on Helix.

[Rewolf48]

Helix isn't supposed to be get everything for $1499, it is get a core of stuff and then use the 4 FX loops to add in anything you want to suit your needs.  It is a bargain for what you get in the box if you compared it to getting the included stuff separately.

[CBTL]

Helix isn't supposed to be get everything for $1499, it is get a core of stuff and then use the 4 FX loops to add in anything you want to suit your needs. It is a bargain for what you get in the box if you compared it to getting the included stuff separately.

Why model an inadequate model? Would it not of made more sense to model the latest polyphonic whammy? No one product is ever going to meet everyone's every need, however, if something is worth doing then do it properly. You guys in the USA are lucky to pay $1499, here in the U.K. I paid £1299 which is a considerable amount of money.

[DarrellM5]

Why model an inadequate model? Would it not of made more sense to model the latest polyphonic whammy? 

 

I've had my Helix for a year now and, as far as I know, the Ricochet started shipping in June.

[spikey]

Why model an inadequate model? Would it not of made more sense to model the latest polyphonic whammy? No one product is ever going to meet everyone's every need, however, if something is worth doing then do it properly. You guys in the USA are lucky to pay $1499, here in the U.K. I paid £1299 which is a considerable amount of money.

 

Its only inadequate for some when it doesn't have something someone wants. I wanted the same Helix for $99.00 and had to pay lots more. So Its "inadequate....  :P  :lol:

[drew_tnbd]

Polyphonic pitching shifting has been around for a while now. The WhammyDT is at least 3 years old.

 

Would definitely love some polyphonic whammy action in the Helix. Yes indeedy.

[CBTL]

Its only inadequate for some when it doesn't have something someone wants. I wanted the same Helix for $99.00 and had to pay lots more. So Its "inadequate.... :P :lol:

I never said that the helix is inadequate, it's far from it. However some of the "models" within are not very good. If your going to model something model the best version.

[hideout]

Have you guys stopped to consider how much more processor intensive polyphonic pitch shifting is compared to plain old pitch shifting? All of the Helix's amp models are highly complex and detailed but every single effect that's in the Helix is pretty rudimentary. There's not one effect in the pedal that is anything beyond a basic effect that is to be expected on any multi effects pedal. Why? Have any of you considered what it takes to replicate what these dedicated single purpose pedals do on a multi effects unit that's already busy giving you superb amp models? Personally, I don't want anything to take any processing power away from what's needed for the amp models. Ever. None of us know how much procecssor headroom the Helix has so none of us can definitively say that it should be able to replicate a highly complex single purpose pedal like the Whammy. For that matter, I don't remember any of Digitech 's MFX units being able to do the whammy justice. Maybe the GSP1101 but again, that thing was no Helix.

[WickedFinger]

Sorry kids if it offends the POD M crowd but I am really only interested in the Helix for the routing, amp models, switch controller assigns and naming, hybrid cabs and IR ability. I had a Whammy V before I sold it to help pay for the Helix and I have missed it all the while, The copies of earlier version Whammy and Octave pedals in the Helix are just glitch out nightmares for me. Even at $100 (tuners) the polyphonic tracking ability using a std cable is everywhere, what were they thinking when they did the Helix? $1500 and you give me a version 1 Whammy and octave pedals I hated before I could afford better ones? 

 

I will gradually incorporate more and better high end pedals for the effects I need and want, and never give a care to what the Helix has or more has NOT.

That being said there is nothing wrong with several of the HX component modeled effects but in general this level of effects cannot compete with the better pedals available these days. If you are on a budget and must use the Helix as a stand  alone unit then you can make due with what is in there. I simply do not and I will continue to upgrade my sounds and tones even if it means losing the Helix altogether if they do not step up the update quality. 

 

I am using the delays and reverbs which are OK, the reverbs being POD copied-which I find excruciating, delays are pretty good but if I can migrate to Strymon and Eventide I certainly will. It is not about money for me. Anyone concerned about money has picked a really bad, feed the alligator hobby.

I just sold a brand new unit I had just paid for when I decided to get the Helix took a huge loss on it, about like the HD POD I had which I took a loss to drop it.

I am OK w the Helix right now as I see potential here for major updating and growth. If it keeps turning into another POD version I will let it go and move on.

If I had to do it over again I think I would have kept some of the pedals I sold off and try that Blu Amp unit w a board. I never considered getting the Helix as a replace all multi unit, I've been bit by that one a few times. I just wanted the best amp modeling I could get at that price level. Helix delivers on that while I am narrowing down to maybe a hand full of amps I use and that respond well with pedals. I did not need 100 assorted amps just a handful that sound amazing.

[WickedFinger]

It's sad you had to pay out $145 when you already spent $$$$ on Helix.

It's more sad a $1500 unit has the worst pedal copies possible. If I cannot use them I do not use them. Don't give me something called a Whammy or an Octave pedal that glitches all over the place. That little Ricochet pedal has the guts of the Whammy V polyphonic tracking and it does not glitch at all. I like quality and the best and if anything does not measure up I drop it. Guitar is not a budget hobby unless you wish to sound like a teenager in the bedroom with your low budget gear. Not my thing, I get what I want at least where financing is possible to pay for it. I cannot and would not drop $2500 for a Fractal but had it been available for the payments I got with the Helix I would have a Fractal flagship right now. Who knows mid next year is a long way off. 

[spikey]

I never said that the helix is inadequate, it's far from it. However some of the "models" within are not very good. If your going to model something model the best version.

 

I would imagine (unlike you I am guessing here) they thought that they did. Now I could be wrong so lets ask them. 

 

Hey Line 6, did you model the best stuff for Helix In your opinion, or just piece meal it together and throw it out the door as some suggest here?

 

Hows that CBTL? Close enuff?  ;)

[HonestOpinion]

Have you guys stopped to consider how much more processor intensive polyphonic pitch shifting is compared to plain old pitch shifting? All of the Helix's amp models are highly complex and detailed but every single effect that's in the Helix is pretty rudimentary. There's not one effect in the pedal that is anything beyond a basic effect that is to be expected on any multi effects pedal. Why? Have any of you considered what it takes to replicate what these dedicated single purpose pedals do on a multi effects unit that's already busy giving you superb amp models? Personally, I don't want anything to take any processing power away from what's needed for the amp models. Ever. None of us know how much procecssor headroom the Helix has so none of us can definitively say that it should be able to replicate a highly complex single purpose pedal like the Whammy. For that matter, I don't remember any of Digitech 's MFX units being able to do the whammy justice. Maybe the GSP1101 but again, that thing was no Helix.

 

Lots of valid points being made in this topic. Even though Wicked may seem to be a bit fixated on the polyphonic tracking thing I don't think he is wrong in advocating for the most cutting edge version of effects(polyphonic in this case) to be modeled where possible. Seeing as how L6 has not chimed in on whether this is possible or coming in future firmware I can understand why he keeps pushing the point (maybe give it a rest every few days ;) ). I think there are some more complex effects modeled on the Helix (LA Studio Comp, Trinity Chorus, 3 Osc Synth, etc.) but they may be in the minority. This does not mean the other effects suck, many of them are top-notch. Personally I like having a mix of great rack effects and both simple and complex pedal effects. Perhaps things are tilted a little too strongly now towards the simple pedal world. I would also point out that just because the controls on a pedal are simple does not necessarily mean that the internals that were modeled are simple. Time may allow the development of some of the more complex pedals in future updates. There is a point at which modeling that pedal with 83 knobs and 408 parameters does start to be a little much to ask unless you want the Helix to cost $10,000. Btw, I love a lot of the existing pedals.

 

In an ideal scenario we would have both best of breed effects and amp models. If those two are mutually exclusive in a single preset and I need to make compromises on one to get the other then I would still prefer to have DSP intensive effects available that I can combine with less DSP intensive amps when the need arises (as long as the DSP intensive amps still exist as well, just give me the choice). I think that the Helix can accommodate both DSP intensive effects and amps, even if there are limitations as to which and how many of them can be run together at the same time.  I can then reserve the most DSP intensive amps for when I don't intend to use the most DSP intensive effects. Line6 has emphasized how the DSP architecture of the Helix was designed for maximum flexibility. That is why there are not preallocated effect/amp slots or a limited number of a certain effect/amp that can be used. You are free to mix and match up to the DSP limit.

 

Sometimes I need a certain effect, sometimes a certain amp, ideally I can have both. If I have to wait for the next generation of hardware to get the more complex amps and effects simultaneously that is a shame but so be it, but I am not convinced that is the case. DI has pointed out there may always be effect and amp models that can push beyond the hardware limitations, even in future generations, at least for the foreseeable future. It is not impossibe to use up all the DSP on the Helix but currently, at least to some extent, you can get both DSP intensive effects and amps into the same preset. As hideout and others have pointed out I don't know how much DSP polyphonic processing takes up, perhaps that would be the breaking point, we don't know until L6 weighs in on the issue.  If it is not possible due to hardware limitations, lack of resources, or programming challenges, then hopefully they will inform us. Until then I think this subject will keep coming up. In the meantime I prefer the choice of great effects and amps wherever possible and I will mix and match and choose my compromises as the available DSP dictates.

[CBTL]

I would imagine (unlike you I am guessing here) they thought that they did. Now I could be wrong so lets ask them.

 

Hey Line 6, did you model the best stuff for Helix In your opinion, or just piece meal it together and throw it out the door as some suggest here?

 

Hows that CBTL? Close enuff? ;)

My guess is that they modelled the same whammy as they did for the HD. I don't for one minute imagine they went out and bought all the latest/best vintage pedals. You make a very valid point, it would be great to know what they modelled, if anything. Did they just create the pitch shifter and call it whammy?

[hideout]

Lots of valid points being made in this topic. Even though Wicked may seem to be a bit fixated on the polyphonic tracking thing I don't think he is wrong in advocating for the most cutting edge version of effects(polyphonic in this case) to be modeled where possible. Seeing as how L6 has not chimed in on whether this is possible or coming in future firmware I can understand why he keeps pushing the point (maybe give it a rest every few days ;) ). I think there are some more complex pedals modeled on the Helix (LA Studio Comp, Trinity Chorus, 3 Osc Synth, etc.) but they may be in the minority. This does not mean the other effects suck, many of them are top-notch. Personally I like having a mix of great rack effects and both simple and complex pedal effects. Perhaps things are tilted a little too strongly now towards the simple pedal world. I would also point out that just because the controls on a pedal are simple does not necessarily mean that the internals that were modeled are simple. Time may allow the development of some of the more complex pedals in future updates. There is a point at which modeling that pedal with 83 knobs and 408 parameters does start to be a little much to ask unless you want the Helix to cost $10,000. Btw, I love a lot of the existing pedals.

 

In an ideal scenario we would have both best of breed effects and amp models. If those two are mutually exclusive in a single preset and I need to make compromises on one to get the other then I would still prefer to have DSP intensive effects available that I can combine with less DSP intensive amps (as long as the DSP intensive amps still exist as well, just give me the choice). I think that the Helix can accommodate both DSP intensive effects and amps, even if there are limitations as to which of them can be run together at the same time.  I can then reserve the most DSP intensive amps for when I don't intend to use the most DSP intensive effects. Line6 has emphasized how the DSP architecture of the Helix was designed for maximum flexibility. That is why there are not preallocated effect/amp slots or a limited number of a certain effect/amp that can be used. You are free to mix and match up to the DSP limit.

 

Sometimes I need a certain effect, sometimes a certain amp, ideally I can have both. If I have to wait for the next generation of hardware to get the more complex amps and effects simultaneously that is a shame but so be it, but I am not convinced that is the case. DI has pointed out there may always be effect and amp models that can push beyond the hardware limitations, even in future generations, at least for the foreseeable future. It is not impossibe to use up all the DSP on the Helix but currently, at least to some extent, you can get both DSP intensive effects and amps into the same preset. As hideout and others have pointed out I don't know how much DSP polyphonic processing takes up, perhaps that would be the breaking point, we don't know until L6 weighs in on the issue.  If it is not possible due to hardware limitations, lack of resources, or programming challenges, then hopefully they will inform us. Until then I think this subject will keep coming up. In the meantime I prefer the choice of great effects and amps wherever possible and I will mix and match as the available DSP dictates.

 

 

I don't disagree with you. But consider, Line 6 may be able to model the electronics used in the latest version of the Whammy but that's only half of the equation. What about the software Digitech uses? That's IVL Technologies' IP.  I suppose they could license it from IVL technologies just as Digitech does but can it be recompiled to be compatible with the Helix's OS?  Maybe Line 6 had to develop their own pitch and formant detection system and it may not be as good as IVL's.

[HonestOpinion]

I don't disagree with you. But consider, Line 6 may be able to model the electronics used in the latest version of the Whammy but that's only half of the equation. What about the software Digitech uses? That's IVL Technologies' IP.  I suppose they could license it from IVL technologies just as Digitech does but can it be recompiled to be compatible with the Helix's OS?  Maybe Line 6 had to develop their own pitch and formant detection system and it may not be as good as IVL's.

 

Great points, had not even considered the proprietary technology issue and I also agree with your initial point that perhaps some of these pedals have features that are simply too DSP intensive for the Helix (limitations that are somewhat dubious and unknown however without L6 confirmation). Some effects may also as I mentioned just be too costly in terms of programmer time, at least in the Helix's earlier days, to model without taking away from other critical fixes and features that need to come first. Not trying to be an apologist for L6 just acknowledging that we don't know the big picture. Unfortunately for us due to the usual requirements that any company has for a certain level of secrecy so as not to violate any disclosure rules, give up their competitive edge, or damage their own reputation we will never know everything they are planning or constrained by.  Being aware of my lack of knowledge of all the factors L6 grapples with helps temper my approach (most of the time anyway) towards asking for features to be delivered. Especially for features that don't seem 'mission critical'. I would agree with Wicked though that if you miss out on enough innovations on recent iterations of pedals, your MFX, great as it may be in so many respects, starts to be threatened by a certain level of obsolescence.

[markman87]

My guess is that they modelled the same whammy as they did for the HD. I don't for one minute imagine they went out and bought all the latest/best vintage pedals. You make a very valid point, it would be great to know what they modelled, if anything. Did they just create the pitch shifter and call it whammy?

Then how did they model the Klon, the Timmy and so on? From people comparing these pedals with their analog counterparts — and the sheer quality — it's clear that they did model them after the real deal.

 

I think Helix is worth the price as it stands, but I'm sure a lot of good updates well come. And the whole comparing with Fractal really gets old. They've had their stuff out for years, and it's taken years to get so much quality stuff out. Consider also that Fractal pretty much only have a couple products, compared to Line 6 that has a whole music industry covered.

 

How about we give them some time to see what they can do? Or sell Helix and move on. All the sour comments is getting tiresome.

[WickedFinger]

There are other units using polyphonic tracking EHX has it on the Tuning Fork, tc's Sub N Up, their poly tuner, T-Rex Quint, Walrus Audio's Multiple octave pedal, POGs use it also. The most amazing example of it is the new Boss SY300 Guitar synth which uses std cable and poly tracks notes and chords.

It is super important to have when using a Whammy or Octave pedal because that tracking glitch burble is not a part of the "tone" it is the inability of the circuit to track notes properly. The Morpheus Detune and DIgitech Down also use it for drop tunings. I am just saying if they cannot step up on the quality of the Helix effects then please stop with the cheese. Just work on the amps. I do mind at all opting to farm out to external pedals. 

 

 

Just a note on the Klon, Timmy  these sound good in front of the amp models but in regards to a real Klon it no way gets that clean Klon boost quality of that pedal. I never used my Klon gained up, the magic of that pedal was the clean boost quality, it made whatever it was in front of or after sound better. Other things like some of the fuzz and what not spare me, terrible buzz fest. The Rat is pretty good but it is just not like the pedal. I really have no desire for Helix effects, you can work on the Delays and reverbs but the modulations are not great either. The Flanges are terrible, the Phase 90 is just not the same. So why bother with them. I can just get the few pedals and have what sounds better without turning the Helix into a POD. Unless L6 comes out with some wheel reinventing update I would assume the effects are going to be close to the same. Personally I would rather have Strymon or Eventide pedals as no way they can get that level. How about just concentrate on the amps, cabs, and IR ability. Amd really who needs hundreds of amps when a handful of great sounding ones is more than enough. 

[HonestOpinion]

...

 

Just a note on the Klon, Timmy  these sound good in front of the amp models but in regards to a real Klon it no way gets that clean Klon boost quality of that pedal. I never used my Klon gained up, the magic of that pedal was the clean boost quality, it made whatever it was in front of or after sound better. Other things like some of the fuzz and what not spare me, terrible buzz fest. The Rat is pretty good but it is just not like the pedal. I really have no desire for Helix effects, you can work on the Delays and reverbs but the modulations are not great either. The Flanges are terrible, the Phase 90 is just not the same. So why bother with them. I can just get the few pedals and have what sounds better without turning the Helix into a POD. Unless L6 comes out with some wheel reinventing update I would assume the effects are going to be close to the same. Personally I would rather have Strymon or Eventide pedals as no way they can get that level. How about just concentrate on the amps, cabs, and IR ability. Amd really who needs hundreds of amps when a handful of great sounding ones is more than enough. 

 

It seemed as if you were initially advocating for Line6 to model the best examples of current effects with features like polyphonic tracking but this post sounds as if you are now suggesting they stop modeling effects entirely. Maybe your standards are more demanding than my own but I strongly disagree with your dire and overwhelmingly negative assessment of the quality of the effects on the Helix. I certainly don't think your condemnation of the quality of the effects according to your perception (which I find entirely erroneous) in any way justifies junking the effects and their development and turning the Helix into an amp, cab and IR only device just because that is the way you would prefer to use it. No offense intended but I usually think it is a bad idea when anyone tries to dictate that there is only one acceptable method with which to use the Helix, especially when you have used what is in my opinion a much less than factual blanket indictment of what seems to be the majority of the effects on the Helix as your incredibly shaky rationale. If you prefer to only use your external pedals then by all means, have at it, but that in no way should make you feel as if you have to convince everyone else that most of the effects on the Helix suck.

 

Quote from Oddball in 'Kelly's Heroes': "Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?"

[Guitarmaniac64]

Why model an inadequate model? Would it not of made more sense to model the latest polyphonic whammy? No one product is ever going to meet everyone's every need, however, if something is worth doing then do it properly. You guys in the USA are lucky to pay $1499, here in the U.K. I paid £1299 which is a considerable amount of money.

Yes i payed almost 1569 $ for mine (yours cost 1590$) but i looked everywhere and found a place that was cheaper than all others i could find

But Helix is still cheaper then AX8 in Europe as it cost 1851$ add shipping and exp pedal to that price.

In usa AX8 cost less then Helix 1399$ add their own exp pedal (139$) and it is 39$ more expensive then Helix.

Even the exp pedal is more expensive in europe it cost 195$..

[hideout]

There are other units using polyphonic tracking EHX has it on the Tuning Fork, tc's Sub N Up, their poly tuner, T-Rex Quint, Walrus Audio's Multiple octave pedal, POGs use it also. The most amazing example of it is the new Boss SY300 Guitar synth which uses std cable and poly tracks notes and chords.

It is super important to have when using a Whammy or Octave pedal because that tracking glitch burble is not a part of the "tone" it is the inability of the circuit to track notes properly. The Morpheus Detune and DIgitech Down also use it for drop tunings. I am just saying if they cannot step up on the quality of the Helix effects then please stop with the cheese. Just work on the amps. I do mind at all opting to farm out to external pedals.

 

Again, all of these pedals are single purpose devices. They aren't having to provide amp modeling, reverb, etc. They only have to do one thing. That's a lot easier than what the Helix is having to do. The other part of this equation is the software used by these devices. They're Intellectual Property or IP and they're either licensed by these manufacturers or they own them outright. Line 6 CANNOT just copy that software onto the Helix. They've likely had to use their own pitch detection schemes which may not be as good as those used by Digitech and others whom have been in the polyphonic pitch detection game for many years

[spikey]

My guess is that they modelled the same whammy as they did for the HD. 

 

If they really did that, then they modeled "some" the wrong stuff IMO. Id rather had Full DT amp and Variax integration, Workbench working in Helix and a tuner for my editor. Did I mention a tuner for the editor?  ;)  That said I think the wah's sound decent once setup right. Amp models to me are "moooouch" better that the HD side. AFA the whammy and octave issues I must apologize to this thread because I don't use them much, so I don't know the hell some are griping about. But if they are broken, of course they need fixing.

[hideout]

Line 6 can model the circuits of any analog device and it'll work but I'm pretty sure they can't model the software used by digital devices like the Whammy, Morpheus or Roland's SY300. 

[WickedFinger]

It seemed as if you were initially advocating for Line6 to model the best examples of current effects with features like polyphonic tracking but this post sounds as if you are now suggesting they stop modeling effects entirely. Maybe your standards are more demanding than my own but I strongly disagree with your dire and overwhelmingly negative assessment of the quality of the effects on the Helix. I certainly don't think your condemnation of the quality of the effects according to your perception (which I find entirely erroneous) in any way justifies junking the effects and their development and turning the Helix into an amp, cab and IR only device just because that is the way you would prefer to use it. No offense intended but I usually think it is a bad idea when anyone tries to dictate that there is only one acceptable method with which to use the Helix, especially when you have used what is in my opinion a much less than factual blanket indictment of what seems to be the majority of the effects on the Helix as your incredibly shaky rationale. If you prefer to only use your external pedals then by all means, have at it, but that in no way should make you feel as if you have to convince everyone else that most of the effects on the Helix suck.

 

Quote from Oddball in 'Kelly's Heroes': "Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?"

Really perhaps you should read through my programming tips on how to do do things to make the presets better. If something is not really any good do not expect me to fawn all over it. Not impressed by the front end effects in the Helix, are they workable sure, better than pedals, oh h ell no. The longer I use the Helix the more I am migrating to external pedals for the effects I want. No big deal, I am into the price of admission for the amp models and features not the effects. Excuse me if I sound "negative" my pin is negative polarity but my tones are noteworthy. And yes the pitch shifting, Whammy, and octave effects suck,like the tuner, big time. Delude yourself otherwise if you wish, want the truth here it is. As far as "righteous and hopeful", I have no idea what that means in relation to guitar and processors. Inject your church jams elsewhere. 

[WickedFinger]

Again, all of these pedals are single purpose devices. They aren't having to provide amp modeling, reverb, etc. They only have to do one thing. That's a lot easier than what the Helix is having to do. The other part of this equation is the software used by these devices. They're Intellectual Property or IP and they're either licensed by these manufacturers or they own them outright. Line 6 CANNOT just copy that software onto the Helix. They've likely had to use their own pitch detection schemes which may not be as good as those used by Digitech and others whom have been in the polyphonic pitch detection game for many years

There are only so many ways to make a wheel only a few variants to making most circuits. I doubt if most realize 95% of almost all overdrive pedals use the same basic circuit to create such a thing, there only a few ways to create a circuit that does that. So you cannot copyright generic electronics and basic circuit design.

Maybe instead of trying to "copy mimic" things, maybe the engineers could do something and create their own thing. Else, leave it out.

The Helix is an expensive unit I do not need copies of low budget and low tech effect pedals.

Obviously in various pedals using polyphonic detection tracking their cost is very low so it cannot be a money issue. Maybe fire the old POD engineers and designers and get some new blood to expand the horizons?

If you cannot offer a pedal that does not glitch and burble then perhaps work on the HX amp section or I don't know some HX reverbs???

"Model" does not have to mean a copy mimic of something involving copyright and whatnot. L6 makes several amps and things of their own design without copying anything. I am just saying effects that work well or not having them. A few killer sounding amps are better than a 100+ ones than do not really sound very good at all despite if they are a copy mimic or not. Keep pushing the Helix to a higher level not another POD version. 

[HonestOpinion]

...

 

Quote from Oddball in 'Kelly's Heroes': "Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?"

 

 

... As far as "righteous and hopeful", I have no idea what that means in relation to guitar and processors. Inject your church jams elsewhere. 

 

I don't blame you for a second for responding to yet another cheesy dated pop culture film quote but I think you know exactly what the relevance of that quote was in response to the context of your latest post in a series of progressively escalating attacks on the quality of the effects in the Helix. I have to admit I am entertained by your response but I don't remember singing any gospel in my post (not that I know any other than what I've seen in 'Sister Act') or making any reference whatsoever to anything having to do with 'church jams'.  Neither 'righteous' nor 'hopeful' necessarily imply 'religious' unless you lean in that direction, look 'em up in the Oxford dictionary. The quote I included is verbatim from the 'Oddball' character played by Donald Sutherland in 'Kelly's Heroes' and I don't think anyone would have mistaken his role in that film as being that of a pastor.

 

I respect the fact that you have reservations about some or many of the effects on the Helix and would prefer to use external pedals. Just starting to feel like you are using the forum to bludgeon us with that opinion in a fairly negative fashion on a regular basis. I am far from a Line6 fan-boi, like seeing constructive criticism, and I am a big believer in free speech. I have made my own share of posts along the way that could be considered harsh or critical.  I respect a forum where the Admin is very good about not censoring posts that are not exactly conducive to enhancing Line6 sales.  I hope you keep posting your observations as I think they represent a valuable if in my opinion somewhat extreme viewpoint. If it were me I might take it down a notch but that is up to you. I have no right, power, or intention to dictate to you how to express yourself. I am just responding to your posts and trying to convey my opinion that you have judged the quality of the effects on the Helix too harshly and with what appears to be excessive and increasing regularity. What compelled me to respond is that it started to feel like rather than inviting L6 to improve on effects you were entreating them to abandon them altogether.  Now that's just crazy talk and would negate a big part of the reason I purchased the Helix.  If L6 wants to make an amp & cab modeling only device for users who feel the same as you, great, but that was not the intention of the Helix.  I agree with some of the points you have made and you have been helpful to other users on technical issues. Nothing wrong with encouraging L6 to improve effect quality, especially if you can make concrete and specific suggestions (as you have on occasion). Some approaches just probably work better than others.  Like I said before, no offense was intended.

[johnonguitar]

Can we please hear clips of you playing Wicked Finger? You must sound really good, excited to hear the end product!

[PeterHamm]

There are a LOT of guitarists who actually pine for the OLDER Whammy pedals. Perhaps that's why they modeled it.

I think that polyphonic pitch shifting may come to Helix. However, it will be processor intensive, so even when it arrives, I'll probably prefer my POG2 in a loop.

[hideout]

Can we please hear clips of you playing Wicked Finger? You must sound really good, excited to hear the end product!

Indeed.

[bradlions]

I'd like to hear some clips as well. They probably sound unreal.

[johnonguitar]

I'd like to hear some clips as well. They probably sound unreal.

Like unicorns farting

[hideout]

I think that polyphonic pitch shifting may come to Helix. However, it will be processor intensive, so even when it arrives, I'll probably prefer my POG2 in a loop.

 

 

:P  ;)

[Rewolf48]

If only Electro Harmonix would wake up to the concept of MIDI and remote change of presets then I would be far more likely to buy their stuff - groping around on the floor to change sounds is so 1980's - I had midi control at least in the form of patch change from the Quadraverb onward.

[PeterHamm]

If only Electro Harmonix would wake up to the concept of MIDI and remote change of presets then I would be far more likely to buy their stuff - groping around on the floor to change sounds is so 1980's - I had midi control at least in the form of patch change from the Quadraverb onward.

Aint that the truth! charge me an extra hundred, rackmount that thing, add midi... and TAKE MY MONEY!

[phil_m]

If only Electro Harmonix would wake up to the concept of MIDI and remote change of presets then I would be far more likely to buy their stuff - groping around on the floor to change sounds is so 1980's - I had midi control at least in the form of patch change from the Quadraverb onward.

 

Yeah, that's something I don't really get with their pedals. I used to have the C9 pedal, and I thought it was great, but for live use, it was really a one-trick pony because, like you said, the only way to change sounds was to bend over and actually turn the knob. Even allowing user-storeable presets at all would be a big step up.

[Verne-Bunsen]

...groping around on the floor to change sounds is so 1980's...

 

I believe it pre-dates the 80's by a good bit! Watching David Gilmour sitting in the dirt twiddling knobs on Live At Pompeii is one of my favorite moments from that film. Admittedly less practical in other circumstances though...  :lol:

 

 

[Thurston9]

^Awesome pics