Jump to content
jroseberry

Looking for a handful of folks to test new Cab IR library

Recommended Posts

Looking for a small handful of folks to test a new Mesa 4x12 Cab IR pack.

Includes "Tone-Shaping" IRs from a hardware Neve EQ.

 

If you'd like to test and provide feedback (including some playing examples), send me a PM or Email at jim@studiocat.com

Jims_MESA_IRs.png

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great to see your Center, Edge, Cone variations. If I decide on a HELIX and you're still seeking beta participants, I'll PM you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What an amazing array of optioned IRs and some cool EQ tone shapping ones. The Marshall preset for testing is really nice.

I have a very late night planned with all this. I have a feeling these are finally going to be some IRs I like. For one thing love the 4x12 that is my go cab forever. 

This is treasure trove of IRs we are going to have to pony up some donations if even a fraction of them are good. Thanks for all this, You may have saved my Helix. 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the link.  I'll be running through these all weekend.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At first run through using my fav amp model rather uncanny they all sound really good, so many options to run through clean and gain and the 3 mic positions, it's hard to pin down favs. Have to say I have tried about 150 various free IRs and never really cared for any of them. There are so many great ones in this package it may take weeks to sort out some more favs. I flipped back and forth to my std preset and really the new IRs were just better, fuller, richer sounding. Messed a little w the Neve EQ tone IRs and they have some interesting and subtle enhancements, have to work on mastering these better to fit them into my chain. Rearranging my main template to fit the Neve switch in. I use the MIC Studio Preamps set clean with my amp models for a more tubish less digital sound and I think working the Neve IR in with my post preamp will do well adding a little EQ to it which is much different than using an EQ block.

Anyway at first run through, an amazing set of IR's here, certainly heads above any I have tried. I do wish there was a Ribbon mic I'm pretty fond of that Coles. I think I am liking the CV4 the best right now but still early on. Many thanks to Jim for letting us try these out. 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just got to run through a bunch of these after rehearsal last night. 

These are pretty great! I was getting much joy blending the 57 1.5" edge with several of the others and I don't know that I've come across any IRs before using the SM7b on a guitar cab! A handful of these and the modded marshall model might be new favorite things. I'm hoping to to do a short 3-4 bar loop and reamp with a bunch of these this weekend sometime.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A++ for high gain with the Helix Engl, Bogner Uber and Mesa Recto models.  The 421 2_cone.wav is definitely a go-to IR.  Although I have to say the SM57 Neve flat.wav really sweetens up the SM57 sound.  

 

These IR's are MUCH better that the 3 Sigma Recto 412 OS, with more mic options too.  I even like them better than the 3S Mesa Road King 412.

 

I just sent you 3 Ribbon 121 re-mic'd IR's since you didn't have any ribbons in your pack.  Let me know if you like them and I can make more positions.  

  • R121 0_Center.wav
  • R121 0_Cone.wav
  • R121 0_Edge.wav

No offense either way.  You are MUCH more pro than I and have already contributed a lot to me and the group here.  Glad to contribute back if they work for you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At first run through using my fav amp model rather uncanny they all sound really good, so many options to run through clean and gain and the 3 mic positions, it's hard to pin down favs. Have to say I have tried about 150 various free IRs and never really cared for any of them. There are so many great ones in this package it may take weeks to sort out some more favs. I flipped back and forth to my std preset and really the new IRs were just better, fuller, richer sounding. Messed a little w the Neve EQ tone IRs and they have some interesting and subtle enhancements, have to work on mastering these better to fit them into my chain. Rearranging my main template to fit the Neve switch in. I use the MIC Studio Preamps set clean with my amp models for a more tubish less digital sound and I think working the Neve IR in with my post preamp will do well adding a little EQ to it which is much different than using an EQ block.

Anyway at first run through, an amazing set of IR's here, certainly heads above any I have tried. I do wish there was a Ribbon mic I'm pretty fond of that Coles. I think I am liking the CV4 the best right now but still early on. Many thanks to Jim for letting us try these out. 

 

Thanks for your thoughts and experiences with the IRs.

 

A nice Ribbon mic is on my gear short-list. 

I'll likely pick one up in the next few weeks.

 

The Miktek CV4 is one of the best mics I've ever used.

Extremely versatile... and seems to sound good to stellar on near anything.

I also like the fact that the "tube vibe" isn't overly pronounced.

When I first heard the CV4 on guitar cab, I was surprised just how good it sounded.

You get the detail/nuance of a condenser... without losing the aggressive quality (typically associated with dynamics).

 

Anxious to hear some examples...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A++ for high gain with the Helix Engl, Bogner Uber and Mesa Recto models.  The 421 2_cone.wav is definitely a go-to IR.  Although I have to say the SM57 Neve flat.wav really sweetens up the SM57 sound.  

 

These IR's are MUCH better that the 3 Sigma Recto 412 OS, with more mic options too.  I even like them better than the 3S Mesa Road King 412.

 

I just sent you 3 Ribbon 121 re-mic'd IR's since you didn't have any ribbons in your pack.  Let me know if you like them and I can make more positions.  

  • R121 0_Center.wav
  • R121 0_Cone.wav
  • R121 0_Edge.wav

No offense either way.  You are MUCH more pro than I and have already contributed a lot to me and the group here.  Glad to contribute back if they work for you.

 

Thanks for your feedback on the IRs.  Glad to hear they're working well in high-gain scenarios.

And thanks for taking the time to make the re-mic'd Ribbon IRs.

I'll have a listen sometime later today.

Friday's are always crazy busy... trying to get DAWs packed/shipped before the weekend.

 

A nice Ribbon mic is high on my gear wish-list.

 

If you haven't checked them out, the CV4 IRs (IMO) are also pretty good.

I think the figure-8 pattern captures a little of that "cab in the room" vibe... and works well with higher gain scenarios.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think I've gotten back to everyone.

If I missed anyone, send me an Email.

 

Thanks for all the feedback thus far!

Anxious to hear some audio/video clips...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Regretfully I am not a recording maven at this time and have no means to record things.That is a very large alligator to feed and my wife would probably kill me with a Les Paul in my sleep.  More a live sound player. I realize recording motivated players seek unique EQ and mixing ideals on guitar sounds. I am merely trying to make Helix I use now sound as good as possible live. It must range excellent clean tones and work well with pedals. I tend to get my high gains from the better amp like pedals I have as high gain is a really difficult thing for me and most generic amp things do not ring the cow bell for me. Just from what I have run through I am finding all of these IRs to be significantly better than anything I have tried.

 

Since I am new to the whole IR thing and understand little I am trying to educate myself on the EQ tonal variants of mic position and whatnot.

Can you explain what is meant by some of the fig 8 and other "card" such descriptors? 

Also can anyone more accurately describe the resulting EQ tonal range effected by Edge, Cone and Center. I understand many prefer Edge. 

Also tilting off axis, like "reduces low edge, less harsh mids", things like that. Would be helpful to dial the best IR for the tone. A fav thing for me is arrange different IR's to switch in and out sort of like using the Neve EQ things but rigging the Helix assigns to shut one off and another one on. Pretty cool. 

 

I cannot decide which I like better they certainly all have their uses but for me it is essential to understand what is happening on the EQ spectrum when you move the mics.

I would love to hear some Ribbon mic IRs you might do.  Fond of that Coles 4038 in the Helix which may be a little dark for some but I like the full body and punch it has, seems to capture the thump of the cab really well. Best example of great Ribbon mic recording I can think of is Robin Trower's Bridge of Sighs, pretty iconic tones. I understand the Ribbon can take massive sonic levels and likes to be a  few inches off the speaker distance.

Anyway, marvelous stuff here. As a live sound player has really added that enhanced tweak to my already great tones. 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Usually, the greater distance from the center of the speaker (in either direction) the less highs and upper mids the microphone will pickup. Obviously this varies from mic to mic, but thats the common thinking/sonic characteristic. A lot of people prefer the "edge" of cone position because you get the harsh/rasp of the center and little more of the "oomph" of the cone which gives you (possibly) a little more to work with when recording/mixing live sound. I'd say 99% of clubs i've played with a house sound man, his SM57 is slightly off-axis, right at the edge of the dust cap on one of the speaker furthest from the floor, even before the amp ever makes a sound.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Regretfully I am not a recording maven at this time and have no means to record things.That is a very large alligator to feed and my wife would probably kill me with a Les Paul in my sleep.  More a live sound player. I realize recording motivated players seek unique EQ and mixing ideals on guitar sounds. I am merely trying to make Helix I use now sound as good as possible live. It must range excellent clean tones and work well with pedals. I tend to get my high gains from the better amp like pedals I have as high gain is a really difficult thing for me and most generic amp things do not ring the cow bell for me. Just from what I have run through I am finding all of these IRs to be significantly better than anything I have tried.

 

Since I am new to the whole IR thing and understand little I am trying to educate myself on the EQ tonal variants of mic position and whatnot.

Can you explain what is meant by some of the fig 8 and other "card" such descriptors? 

Also can anyone more accurately describe the resulting EQ tonal range effected by Edge, Cone and Center. I understand many prefer Edge. 

Also tilting off axis, like "reduces low edge, less harsh mids", things like that. Would be helpful to dial the best IR for the tone. A fav thing for me is arrange different IR's to switch in and out sort of like using the Neve EQ things but rigging the Helix assigns to shut one off and another one on. Pretty cool. 

 

I cannot decide which I like better they certainly all have their uses but for me it is essential to understand what is happening on the EQ spectrum when you move the mics.

I would love to hear some Ribbon mic IRs you might do.  Fond of that Coles 4038 in the Helix which may be a little dark for some but I like the full body and punch it has, seems to capture the thump of the cab really well. Best example of great Ribbon mic recording I can think of is Robin Trower's Bridge of Sighs, pretty iconic tones. I understand the Ribbon can take massive sonic levels and likes to be a  few inches off the speaker distance.

Anyway, marvelous stuff here. As a live sound player has really added that enhanced tweak to my already great tones. 

 

 

Glad you're liking the IRs.

 

Generally speaking (overly simplified description):

As you move the mic position away from center (toward the cone), you get less higher end.

Moving the mic off-axis tends to pick up less high-end... and changes the character of the mids.  

Much easier to hear than to describe in words...

 

How much the off-axis position affects the sound also depends on the mic.

Some mics like the RE20 color the sound less when off-axis.  This is one reason why the RE20 is so popular in radio. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the info. I have been busy finding everything I can on the subject as when I have a need to know I get obsessed it gathering the information.

I've been able to pin down a little more what might work best for me and why. I realize now why I like that Coles 4038 so much in the Helix.

The 57 is always a little to harsh for me especially on cone and probably why I did not like a lot of previous IR's.

I realize it is a common go to. But alas I am not a common player nor a generic one. My views of guitar and sound have been gradually fermenting and developing an aged liquor of taste over the centuries. I like that jaw drop effect when someone hears my rig, the tones even among non musicians register. That is why I have never bought into "the audience doesn't care about tone thing". Even the most untrained ear knows a pleasing sound over a crap one.

Anyway, I am so much digging this IR package and it has allowed me to understand and be more knowledgeable which can never be a bad thing. 

In the spirit of passing on relative good information, I found these three websites to be most informative in grasping various issues.

http://rogermontejano.com/en/articles/item/recording-e-guitars-where-to-shoot-at-the-cone

http://rogermontejano.com/en/articles/item/recording-electric-guitars-where-to-shoot-at-the-cone-part-ii

http://www.premierguitar.com/articles/20356-the-recording-guitarist-mic-makes-right

 

Thanks Dr. Jim, very cool indeed. One of the best things I have found on this site.

PowerUser's summary of compressor use was another if anyone has not seen that jewel. 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think I've gotten back to everyone.

If I missed anyone, send me an Email.

 

Thanks for all the feedback thus far!

Anxious to hear some audio/video clips...

 

I'll try to make up some comparison clips for Soundcloud of a Helix Cali Rectifire amp into A: Helix 4x12 Cali V30 - B: 3 Sigma Mesa OS Rectifier - C: Ownhammer Mesa 412 (free demo) - D: New JR Mesa 4x12.

 

I need to sit down with all of them and try to find the most similar mics & positions to be fair.  I may have to use the SM57 versions of each for an equal comparison.  

 

Wish I had a real Mesa 412 I could run the Helix into for a physical comparison option too.   I do have the Mesa 212, I might throw it in there, although it does sound a bit different than a 412 I think.  Maybe the difference is minimal when mic'd.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Forgot to address the "fig-8" and "card-1" question from above.

 

The Miktek CV4 is a multi-pattern (variable pattern) mic.

 

The fig-8 (as you probably guessed) is using the figure-8 polar pattern.

This captures a bit of that "cab in the room" vibe.  There's also a little bit of scoop caused by the polar pattern.

Kind of lends itself to metal territory...

 

Card-1 is the Cardiod position (minus 1 notch)... so it's a "looser" cardiod pattern.

This lessens the proximity effect... and changes the character a bit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I realize now why I like that Coles 4038 so much in the Helix.

The 57 is always a little to harsh for me especially on cone and probably why I did not like a lot of previous IR's.

I realize it is a common go to. But alas I am not a common player nor a generic one. 

 

The type of music you play has a profound effect on the type/s of tone you're after.

If you're playing a warm soft jazzy tone, the 57 most likely isn't your first mic choice.

That said, positioned out on the edge of the cap or even the cone, you can tame a lot of that.

 

The 57 is a popular guitar cab mic in rock circles... because it has a tight mid focus... and captures a somewhat aggressive sound.

It doesn't have too much bottom or top... and doesn't fight to sit in a full band mix.

 

All about the right mic to capture/enhance the desired end-result.

Get get the sound right (up-front) in the recording process... and mixing is a *whole* lot easier.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll try to make up some comparison clips for Soundcloud of a Helix Cali Rectifire amp into A: Helix 4x12 Cali V30 - B: 3 Sigma Mesa OS Rectifier - C: Ownhammer Mesa 412 (free demo) - D: New JR Mesa 4x12.

 

I need to sit down with all of them and try to find the most similar mics & positions to be fair.  I may have to use the SM57 versions of each for an equal comparison.  

 

Wish I had a real Mesa 412 I could run the Helix into for a physical comparison option too.   I do have the Mesa 212, I might throw it in there, although it does sound a bit different than a 412 I think.  Maybe the difference is minimal when mic'd.

 

I wouldn't expect any of them to sound bad.

Everyone has different preferences/taste.

 

The MESA 4x12 is probably my favorite guitar cab.  Though certainly NOT my favorite to move/cart! 

A lot of these types of projects stem from my wanting more control over my sound.

The more time I spend with Helix, the more I'm able to push it in desired directions.

The end results just keep getting better...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I got some time tonight and skimmed through the IR-s. There seems to be many mic options that provide nice combinations.

I did a short sound sample with the Stick - nothing spectacular music-wise, but just to give an idea how they sound.

 

In the left channel is one of my presets with the Zed amp and in the right Jim's Marshall preset.
The Zed uses SM57-0 cone_off and edge IR-s and Marshall RE20-2 cone_off and edge IR-s. I also used the Neve 1.5kHz 1 IR after them.
I only had a chance checking the sound in the headphones.
Using different amps and in the mix the various colors of the mic choices will come in handy, but for now these sounded good:

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ag6zy917deovzpe/Zed_SM57-0_%26_Marshall_RE20-2_cone_off_%26_edge.mp3?dl=0

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dude if you ever do Ribbon mics I'd pay for those. I am sure you could get some great ones. I know everyone likes the 57 but let me be one who does not care for them.

I am very sure if Trower recorded Bridge of Sighs with a 57 or like it would not have been the iconic massive sound it is. I think that is why I have not cared for so many IRs I have tried, too many use the 57 all the time. Which I do not get because it is a vocal mic and the 58 was intended for instruments. Anyway, love me some Ribbon mic, but the large condensers are doing well. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I got some time tonight and skimmed through the IR-s. There seems to be many mic options that provide nice combinations.

I did a short sound sample with the Stick - nothing spectacular music-wise, but just to give an idea how they sound.

 

In the left channel is one of my presets with the Zed amp and in the right Jim's Marshall preset.

The Zed uses SM57-0 cone_off and edge IR-s and Marshall RE20-2 cone_off and edge IR-s. I also used the Neve 1.5kHz 1 IR after them.

I only had a chance checking the sound in the headphones.

Using different amps and in the mix the various colors of the mic choices will come in handy, but for now these sounded good:

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ag6zy917deovzpe/Zed_SM57-0_%26_Marshall_RE20-2_cone_off_%26_edge.mp3?dl=0

 

That was really cool.  Thanks for sharing.

Looking forward to hearing more...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He Jim managed to try your Mesa ir s tonight  really loving the 421 2 center IR with the Cali Rectifier and with also the Mesa iv on the clean channel...  low cut is 140 Hz and the high cut  off,,

Going to check out the tone shaping IR s....

 

Thanks again Jim!

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He Jim managed to try your Mesa ir s tonight  really loving the 421 2 center IR with the Cali Rectifier and with also the Mesa iv on the clean channel...  low cut is 140 Hz and the high cut  off,,

Going to check out the tone shaping IR s....

 

Thanks again Jim!

 

Glad you're liking the IRs.

 

One big goal with this Cab library was to eliminate any "fizz" or unnatural sounding top end.

Thus, you shouldn't need to use a low-pass (high-cut) filter on any of these IRs.

 

It's easy to remove unwanted "fizz" or that harsh digital sounding top-end with any low-pass (hi-cut) filter.

I was looking for a more graceful solution than simply lopping it off via EQ.

What may be surprising is that no EQ was used during the process.

What you hear is straight off the mics.

 

I wanted to capture some of the low-end "boom"... because it can be cool in the right context (and it's easy to remove).

Thus, with some of the IRs you'll want to use a high-pass (low-cut) filter.

 

If you're using the Mesa amp models, let me know what you think of the CV4 fig-8 IRs.

Lots of nuance/detail... and a bit of the "cab in the room" vibe.  Also a little scoop...

The CV4 is an amazing mic.  

If you like the CV4 cardiod positions (but want less bottom), try the CV4 card-1 positions.  It's a looser cardiod pattern (less proximity effect).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I did find that I did not need to cut the highs like I do other IR's, but I did need to cut the lows to about 120Hz.  My 8" monitor woofers were doing quite the dance.

 

The CV4 fig 8 IR's were great in the headphones.  I liked the 421's better in a mix through studio monitors against backing tracks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

If you're using the Mesa amp models, let me know what you think of the CV4 fig-8 IRs.

Lots of nuance/detail... and a bit of the "cab in the room" vibe.  Also a little scoop...

The CV4 is an amazing mic.  

If you like the CV4 cardiod positions (but want less bottom), try the CV4 card-1 positions.  It's a looser cardiod pattern (less proximity effect).

Thanks for the post Jim, will definitely check out the CV4 s..... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Really digging these IRs. I love the low end response. Most high gain pedals like my Palladium Gainstage have bass boost EQ centered at 80hz, so if you cut above that you kill the pedals ability. I low end cut for subsonic and some high end but I try not to squeeze down the speakers natural spectrum range and roll off. Any needed fine tune tweaking can be done with EQ or those cool Neve tone IR's, I like to let the speakers breath. I get the need for recording mavens to squeeze guitar response to fit into a mix for recording but I am after the most massive rich sounding live tones that can be done. 

 

I run a high end loaded 4x12 stereo wired and a pair of EV 15" FRFR's so I can run massive levels of low end, plus I often use a T-Rex Quint octave pedal. Have to say there's none of them I do not like. CV4 really nice, liking the center and edge positions myself. Really improved my Helix, I cannot hardly go back and listen to my prior presets w the Helix hybrid cabs and I had some of those really sounding good.. Still not really getting the 16-24 bit thing, are the 24 much better sounding worth the DSP use? I been trying the 16s and they seem to be doing the deal. wondering if I should try and go the 24's. My main go to amp is the Cali Mesa series. Sounds great. I cannot believe all the free IR's I have tried and just did not like them. Too much 57 all the time. I like the larger mics. KIll for some Ribbon's like the Coles 4038. 

 

Anyone who has the opportunity to check out this amazing array of IR's will appreciate the new life they give to the Helix, some really well done stuff here. 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think I've gotten back to everyone.

If I missed anyone, send me an Email.

 

Thanks for all the feedback thus far!

Anxious to hear some audio/video clips...

You miss me :( arislaf@hotmail.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You miss me :( arislaf@hotmail.com

 

 

FWIW, Sent you an Email on Thursday at 5:29pm EST.

I'm guessing it got caught by SPAM filters.

I'll send another Email today.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

FWIW, Sent you an Email on Thursday at 5:29pm EST.

I'm guessing it got caught by SPAM filters.

I'll send another Email today.

My bad you are correct. Found it.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×