What phenomenon would you consider this?

[willjrock]

I think its strange/neat/intriguing that when i first turn my helix on 99% of the time i really enjoy a sound that i have stored from the previous day. Maybe have even worked on for a while. Often without music context and just a jam, it sounds "perfect".

 

Yet when i start comparing presets to one another, almost immediately most of them sound like crap, and there are very few that i like a lot.

 

Ive been doing this for a long time so im aware that a lot of it is perception, but sometimes i get the feeling that knowing exactly what im experiencing, or putting an actual name on the circumstance would be helpful. This is the question im hoping you'll help me with.

 

I liken it to owning a tube amp where some days you turn it on and just fall in love with what you are hearing and other days it sounds no so great at all. Its kinda similar but not really.

Some of it is the playing, some of it is the guitar, and some the tubes and components, but theres no question that the biggest part of it is perception. Like 90% of it.

 

Using modelers dating back to my first POD bean (well digitech GSP 21 legend actually, IF youre willing to call that a modeler) has taught me that comparing presets side by side, one after the other is a bad idea.

 

Thanks, interested to hear your thoughts.

 

 

[shredzilla1964]

Definately seems like some ear bending going on, I experience alot of the same phenomena especially when going between patches... what seems ideal then seems too treble or...

[arislaf]

Ear fatigue.

[duncann]

A glitch in the matrix?

[AlexKenivel]

Out-of-context Ear fatigue. A little context goes a long way

[DunedinDragon]

I'm pretty sure ear fatigue is the culprit here.  And it doesn't take a whole lot of time to fatigue your ears.  This is one of the reasons I'll dial in a preset over the course of several days.  Some things just won't be apparent to me unless I hear it with fresh ears.

[duncann]

I'm not sure I would agree with the others that say it's ear fatigue, although it could be.

 

I experience a similar thing you describe when trying to narrow down which IR or cab to use in a preset. I have a habit of recording multiple short clips with each take being a different cab or IR. Then I cycle through these takes (hotkey T in Reaper!) until I decide which one I want to keep. The problem is, I have a hard time deciding which one to keep, and often they all end up sounding like crap very shortly after I start this process. Usually within fifteen minutes, thus my doubting ear fatigue as the culprit. As you said above though, just minutes earlier when I turned Helix on, I was greeted with a very nice tone that I couldn't really fault in a major way. Perhaps I should learn to leave well enough alone.

 

I don't know what name can be attributed to this experience, but a side-effect is usually a bit of frustration.

[HonestOpinion]

I think in addition to the times when this is caused by ear fatigue, it is also due to coming back to the sound with a different mindset (context), slightly altered hearing, different volumes, day vs. night listening, synesthesia, barometric and temperature changes, non-linear space-plasma physics and who can forget "parasitic oscillation".  :P

 

From : https://www.sfu.ca/sonic-studio/handbook/Theme_sound_environment.html

A) Sound propagation characteristics influenced by environmental factors;

B) Incidence and reflection phenomena;

C) Absorption phenomena;

D) Complex propagation phenomena;

E) Resonance and standing waves in enclosed spaces;

F) Binaural hearing and the perception of acoustic space;

G) Electroacoustic recording and reproduction of acoustic space;

H) Soundscape notation and the information contained in the spatial behaviour of sounds.

 

http://van.physics.illinois.edu/qa/listing.php?id=23198

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synesthesia

 

https://books.google.com/books?id=hLaBjx2aB5sC&pg=PA48&lpg=PA48&dq=Conditions+that+modify+sound+waves&source=bl&ots=uqObGlkkt2&sig=lZDCUoTlSCEUl009dhgUKw__ta0&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjZu47B6ovVAhWE8j4KHU9WBwYQ6AEIKjAB#v=onepage&q=Conditions%20that%20modify%20sound%20waves&f=false

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parasitic_oscillation

 

https://www.britannica.com/science/sound-physics

[AlexKenivel]

parasitic oscillation

Thanks for the band name idea

[HonestOpinion]

Thanks for the band name idea

 

LOL, damn, you beat me to it.  :)

[willjrock]

I think in addition to the times when this is caused by ear fatigue, it is also due to coming back to the sound with a different mindset (context), slightly altered hearing, different volumes, day vs. night listening, synesthesia, barometric and temperature changes, non-linear space-plasma physics and who can forget "parasitic oscillation".  :P

 

From : https://www.sfu.ca/sonic-studio/handbook/Theme_sound_environment.html

A) Sound propagation characteristics influenced by environmental factors;

B) Incidence and reflection phenomena;

C) Absorption phenomena;

D) Complex propagation phenomena;

E) Resonance and standing waves in enclosed spaces;

F) Binaural hearing and the perception of acoustic space;

G) Electroacoustic recording and reproduction of acoustic space;

H) Soundscape notation and the information contained in the spatial behaviour of sounds.

 

http://van.physics.illinois.edu/qa/listing.php?id=23198

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synesthesia

 

https://books.google.com/books?id=hLaBjx2aB5sC&pg=PA48&lpg=PA48&dq=Conditions+that+modify+sound+waves&source=bl&ots=uqObGlkkt2&sig=lZDCUoTlSCEUl009dhgUKw__ta0&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjZu47B6ovVAhWE8j4KHU9WBwYQ6AEIKjAB#v=onepage&q=Conditions%20that%20modify%20sound%20waves&f=false

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parasitic_oscillation

 

https://www.britannica.com/science/sound-physics

Lots of good stuff in there. Thanks! However i cant relate my thoughts on the matter to an acoustical one. Ive put forth a great deal of time, and effort into "perfecting" my acoustical environment.  IMO is a matter of taste.

I'm not sure I would agree with the others that say it's ear fatigue, although it could be.

 

I experience a similar thing you describe when trying to narrow down which IR or cab to use in a preset. I have a habit of recording multiple short clips with each take being a different cab or IR. Then I cycle through these takes (hotkey T in Reaper!) until I decide which one I want to keep. The problem is, I have a hard time deciding which one to keep, and often they all end up sounding like crap very shortly after I start this process. Usually within fifteen minutes, thus my doubting ear fatigue as the culprit. As you said above though, just minutes earlier when I turned Helix on, I was greeted with a very nice tone that I couldn't really fault in a major way. Perhaps I should learn to leave well enough alone.

 

I don't know what name can be attributed to this experience, but a side-effect is usually a bit of frustration.

lol, you know exactly what im talking about. I guess it could come down to ear fatigue, but maybe another version of it? I dont know.

 

The one thing i could say is about your situation is - unless you KNOW i wouldnt worry about it. Ive RE-recorded tracks with what i was SURE was a better sound, and the tone of the scratch track was "just the thing", still winning out. I think i dial my most fitting tones "in the moment".

 

Unless a tone is just wrong, working on it more and more down the road seems to be a waste of my energy and quite often very time consuming. 

[duncann]

... I think i dial my most fitting tones "in the moment".

 

Unless a tone is just wrong, working on it more and more down the road seems to be a waste of my energy and quite often very time consuming. 

 

In-the-moment may be the key. If you were able to collect and analyze the uncountable variables that exist in-the-moment, then you could probably identify what the phenomenon is, but only for that very short time frame. Because how could any two ITMs be truly identical. But, if you could then collect and analyze many ITMs, a pattern might start to emerge from a wider, zoomed-out view. Once that pattern is identified, you could take advantage of the revealed efficiency by choosing the best ITM circumstances, or even intentionally creating the best ITM. A real time saver, lol.

[jbuhajla]

This thread makes my head hurt...

[Digital_Igloo]

I'm sure it's not dissimilar to how one morning, running the car test on your latest mix can sound stellar—even against your favorite reference tracks—and the next morning, on the same system, against the same reference tracks, it suddenly sounds like cats barfing.

[amsdenj]

I love it that music is so situational. Unfortunately its really difficult to mind shift into patch tweak mode when your in the playing zone. Consider having someone else "mix" your Helix patches while you're at rehearsal. You focus on playing, they focus on getting your tone. Its two very different mind sets. Hard to do them both at the same time and in context.

[HonestOpinion]

I love it that music is so situational. Unfortunately its really difficult to mind shift into patch tweak mode when your in the playing zone. Consider having someone else "mix" your Helix patches while you're at rehearsal. You focus on playing, they focus on getting your tone. Its two very different mind sets. Hard to do them both at the same time and in context.

 

I think this difference in perception between when you are playing and listening, and just listening, is also a good argument for using a looper for hands-free adjustment of your presets. This gives you the opportunity to focus your attention on the sound rather than your playing. Alternating actual playing with turns on the looper also allows you to dial in the "feel" you are looking for while the looper allows you to make a more objective assessment of the tone without having your hands on the strings.

[erniedenov]

Ear fatigue.

 

I'm not sure if it's that or simple loss of perspective. Maybe they're the same thing. But I've realized that when you're working on sounds, it's good to take a half hour break... or maybe call it a day and go back to the drawing board tomorrow. I'm constantly refining the same 6 or so patches on my Helix. I always save the original though and once in a while I end up preferring it.