Pod Hd500x Sounds Thin?

[Jasonbrianmerrill]

This is quite possibly due to my inability to properly program patches for performance.

 

I have another thread which is related to this:

 

http://line6.com/support/topic/2902-good-monitor-for-pod-hd500x-and-vocals/

 

However, I am getting comments (from my bass player, and a fellow band in the area who has come to our gigs) that our sound is thin.

 

here is our reverbnation page:

 

http://www.reverbnation.com/abbeyroadhawley

 

the sounds you are hearing here are a mix of direct and mic'ed (some bleed from the PA, I record the drums with mics). Keep in mind it might sound worse through PA speakers only.

 

So, what can I do? I certainly don't feel "connected" to my own sound and, as you can hear, my solo performance suffers. I feel like I'm waiting instead of expressing, hesistating instead of letting it rip.

 

Is there latency or something?

 

Let me show you the set list I use (WHY WONT THESE FORUMS ALLOW UPLOAD OF MY FILE? LOL)

 

here it is:

 

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3305204/User%201.5xs

 

any help, or harsh critique, is helpful. Please be nice. I haven't had time to program much.

 

any help would be appreciated. Please bear in mind this is for live use.

[arislaf]

Well, honestly the sound on the couldn't stand the weather sounds a bit off IMO,Meaning could be a bit fatter.But no, the rest are ok.

[Jasonbrianmerrill]

ok, great - so how does it sound "thin" and what can I do about it?

 

I am used to using guitar plugins in a DAW, but not configuring the POD for live use.

[Jasonbrianmerrill]

the bass player is always telling me to turn down my bass, too lol

[Jasonbrianmerrill]

the recordings might not be the best example of the tone unfortunately... I am using a variax JTV at the moment. 

 

 

if someone could check out the patches I am using, or could point me in the direction of some patches which sound like a pedal and some amps and not like radiohead's subterranean homesick alien, it would be helpful ;)

[arislaf]

Where are the patches? Regarding fatness, Hurghanico pointed you to the correct way, just follow his instructions.I could say, for additional  thickness, put some decay and a bit of thump to your cabin!

[Jasonbrianmerrill]

interesting about the cabinet!

 

yes, I have 500x... they should open in 500, right? just might run into DSP issues.

[Jasonbrianmerrill]

The overwhelming consensus is that the pod sucks. I don't buy it.

 

everyone's saying "just get a tube amp" haha.

 

Oh well... must these things always devolve?

[Jasonbrianmerrill]

you've come to this conclusion in so little time? hmmm

or you had this opinion even from before?

more likely the second possibility I would say

 

then why do you waste people's time unnecessarily?

 

really remarkable

Either you read that wrong or I stated it too simply...

 

I Dont buy it. I seriously don't think it sucks.... that's the only opinion im getting from people though.

 

I've been a pod user since 2005.

[brian6string]

Hey Jason. I'm using an X3 Live so I don't have an exact answer for you. But looking at your patches in HD Edit, it sounds thin because you EQd it that way. From what I see, the effects that have EQ (Screamer especially), you have the treb higher than the mid and bass. On your amps, same thing, treble is higher than the bass. Most surprising was the JCM-800 amps where you had the bass to 0% and the treble and presence to ~75%.Pretty much the opposite of what you'd do with a real Marshall amp--Jeff McErlain says, I think as exaggeration, that for Marshall's you should start with the treb on 0 and the bass and mid at 10. For Fenders he says bass at 2, treble at 3.

 

I've found with my X3 Live that in addition to "normal" EQ setting for the amp models I'm using, adding a four band EQ like this (borrowed from Lincoln Brewster's settings):

9.0db @ 100Hz

4.0db @ 400Hz

3.0db @ 750Hz

-1.8db @ 3000Hz

This really improves the live sound. I don't know what EQs are available on the HD, but you should be able to dial in something close to that--essentially boosting the bass, scooping the low mids, boosting the high mids and really filtering out the highs.

[StephenSLR]

http://line6.com/support/topic/658-how-do-you-fatten-up-a-distortion-tone/?hl=fatten

 

s

[still_fiddlin]

I'd add a lot of "tube screamer" or "rat" type distortion, and play around with EQ, plus a bit of delay.  It's too clean (not thin), in general, for live use, IMO, and it could use a bit of thickening for a small combo.

 

It would be helpful to know what your patch settings are.  There are a lot of good amp models on these HD systems, but you need to develop your ear to figure out "how to get from here to there."  Use your ears.

[Jasonbrianmerrill]

I have my patches above, but I'm more than happy to also post pictures :)

[still_fiddlin]

I have my patches above, but I'm more than happy to also post pictures :)

For those of us w/o a 500X, we can't load them in our editor.  I believe this is basic stuff, like amp model, effects selection. 

 

You might play around with the drive level on the amp, assuming it has one (old HD400 so not familiar with your controls).

[silverhead]

Renaming will work. But HD500 presets can also be directly loaded into HD500x Edit, without renaming, by drag/dropping from any folder on your computer into any Edit preset slot.

[joel_brown]

Sounds to me like you need to spend some time on EQ.  A little delay couldn't hurt either.  Also try changing you input impedance a little.

[brian6string]

I have my patches above, but I'm more than happy to also post pictures :)

Yes, that's what my comments were based on. Again, it sounds thin because you EQ'd it that way.

[markalpine]

I bought this unit originally because it was a robust midi controller and I felt the sounds would make a good back up. I also own the POD HD rack and find the sounds on the 500X substantially thinner and completely unusable. Until today…I disabled ALL cab mods in my best sounding patch and put Hughes & Kettner Red Box in the efx loop. Game changer is an understatement. It finally sounds like a guitar amp not a thin machine made to hurt your ears. Keep in mind I'm going DI - NO Guitar cab or amp.
 

Whenever I tried to address the thinness of the tones via EQ I seemed to lose the “feel†so many folks are also mentioning. By placing the red box as the ONLY cabinet simulator in the chain of things my sounds are now quite usable and will be replacing my main rig.
 

IMHO the Cabinet modeling is just wrong in this unit. Perhaps it could be addressed with an update.

[smaxu]

Same problem here. Honestly I think really it just sounds like that.

 

What a Hugh mistake....

[pianoguyy]

IMHO the Cabinet modeling is just wrong in this unit. 

Same problem here. Honestly I think really it just sounds like that.

 

What a Hugh mistake....

 

 

Have you ever considered that it is User Error?

[markalpine]

It’s not my first rodeo, and usually I get compliments on my tone and questions about how I get it. But yes I have considered your suggestion thoroughly. As my post says I also own the POD HD 500 and I can PROVE that the two units are ridiculously different. If anyone has the same two units just compare a simple patch like Duffy’s Cult, pretty much a straight up JCM 800. On the original POD HD, if you turn ALL the cabinet tuning to zero it’s sounds fantastic, even at high volumes. The 500HDx doesn’t even sound like the same product let alone the same modeling. So yes I have had both units on at the same time in the same environment using the exact same settings and models and they are not in any way the same. Furthermore because the cabinet modeling is useless in the HD500X the upgrade to the extra models is just as useless, (they got me for that 100.00 bucks as well). And finally if you do your research (here on line 6 forums, WTF? line 6) you can see it is a common problem and using a 3^rd party cabinet simulator is the solution. 

[smaxu]

No not really mate.

[Jasonbrianmerrill]

as it turns out, I sold the thing. And I'm also selling my variax. It was cool while it lasted, but broken strings from using an amp sim and unrealistic emulations really didn't do it for me. Line 6 is a great company and do some great things, but I just couldn't deal with it for gigging weekly.

[thorneven]

You attribute broken strings to amp simulations?  That's got be a typo because if it isn't, I'd say you need to do a lot more research into developing sounds on any guitar effects modeling system. Maybe modeling just isn't your thing.  It's a lot of work to get the sounds you want so it's not for everybody.  But when you've dialed in a sound you like, it's heaven, Man.  I've been using JTV-59 and Line6 amps (and now a 500X) for years and I've been very happy.  I perform regularly, every year since 1971.  Good luck with whatever you choose.

 

I know you said you sold it, but if you're willing to try once more, I'd suggest starting with a clean sound, no cab or amp sims, and build from there.  Or what I do is find a factory preset I like and then subtract and/or add until I get what I want.  Works 95% of the time.

[Jasonbrianmerrill]

Weird, I don't have to "dial" in a good sound on an amp. 

 

It just takes too much time. I love amp sim plugins. Hate the Pod. Live? I can't use anything but an amp anymore. And the delay/lack of volume in monitoring is likely the culprit for broken strings. 

 

amps ftw 

[cruisinon2]

And the delay/lack of volume in monitoring is likely the culprit for broken strings.

 

amps ftw

This makes as little sense as anything I've witnessed in my 43 years of roaming the earth. If you're breaking strings constantly, then either there's some physical issue with the guitar that's causing them to snap, such as improperly cut nut slots which can cause strings to bind and break. Or you simply beat the daylights out of them. Try a heavier gauge...

 

Don't care what you're playing through. No method of amplification yet devised causes strings to break, any more than having a red car makes you drive too fast.

[Jasonbrianmerrill]

I understand, perhaps your playing style is different. Here's my personal anecdote:

 

Variax + Pod + my personal playing style = broken strings constantly. twice per gig sometimes

 

Variax + Amp +  my personal playing style = less broken strings

 

Real guitar + Amp + my personal playing style = hardly any broken strings.

 

Guitar (?) + Pod + your personal playing style = hardly any broken strings, I presume.

 

What can I say? It's the only explanation that makes sense. I'm not positing it as a scientific theory or anything. I wish I could actually use my variax. Don't trust it anymore. Variax and Pod both have small bits of latency. 

 

gigging every week, I need to depend on an instrument and amp... couldn't deal with line 6 anymore. 

[pianoguyy]

go buy any of The Music of Nashville soundtracks from season 2, 3, or 4

 

if you can tell me which songs were recorded with an HD500 and which were done with the real thing or another modeler --- 

Then, and only then, will your "ears" mean anything to me.

[Ed_Saxman]

 As my post says I also own the POD HD 500 and I can PROVE that the two units are ridiculously different. If anyone has the same two units just compare a simple patch like Duffy’s Cult, pretty much a straight up JCM 800. On the original POD HD, if you turn ALL the cabinet tuning to zero it’s sounds fantastic, even at high volumes. The 500HDx doesn’t even sound like the same product let alone the same modeling. So yes I have had both units on at the same time in the same environment using the exact same settings and models and they are not in any way the same. Furthermore because the cabinet modeling is useless in the HD500X the upgrade to the extra models is just as useless, (they got me for that 100.00 bucks as well). 

 

Someone there knows if such difference also exists between the HD500 and the HD500X?

 

I recently put my HD500 on sale just to get the 500X (I like the red rings), but if it will sound worse I´ll keep it, for sure.

[joel_brown]

There is not a difference in tone.  I think there's several bulllollipop posts in this thread.  Alternate facts are getting out of control.

[markalpine]

In my previous post about the comparison of the HD500 and the HD500x I did use the exact same settings and models from each. I did so in a studio environment. The test included spectral analysis along with just listening to the differences at multiple volume levels. The HD500X isn’t even close in the JCM model that I used to compare the two. What I found to be the problem here is the final "cabinet" modeling. IE: what makes it sound cool when coming out of full range speakers and not a guitar cabinet? These setting were also duplicated on both devices. And in this case using this model the two do NOT compare at al. The HD500 is a usable sound and the HD500x is useless except as a torture device for terrorist. Remove the cabinet simulator from the HD500X chain and use a 3rd party device and the unit is very nice and usable. In hind sight I would NOT upgrade to a HD500X if I had a HD500. The HD500 I have is studio only use, I bought the HD500X for live use. I even bought the upgrade model packs in hope of making the unit useful by itself. $600.00 total mistake. I should have bought a used HD500 - however they tell me the hardware is better on the HD500X, time will tell I guess.

[Jasonbrianmerrill]

let me make one important post about my viewpoint, if it matters:

 

I think modelers are the way to go for the future. It's amazing how great they sound, and for recordings, it's a no brainer. Regular amps are stupid anymore.

 

However, for live, I found guitar/amp emulations to be bad for my playing style.

 

I mean, this is a company who has a guitar that can't palm mute.... .... .... 

[pianoguyy]

You not being able to palm mute on a guitar sounds like you don't know how to play.

[pianoguyy]

If modelers are the "wave of the future", your IEM should be replacing your guitar amp on stage.

[Jasonbrianmerrill]

that response tells me you've never tried to palm mute on a variax.. unrelated, I realize. 

[thorneven]

Jasonbrianmerrill... If your strumming with a plastic pick is so hard that you're breaking strings, I would say you have a volume problem i.e. you cannot hear your guitar loud enough such that you feel you have to strum harder to compensate (are your fingers bleeding yet?).  As you might have noticed, strumming harder will never compensate enough because you couldn't strum hard enough to make up for the difference.  So I think THAT'S the issue you need to address, not the hardware.

[Ed_Saxman]

In my previous post about the comparison of the HD500 and the HD500x I did use the exact same settings and models from each. I did so in a studio environment. The test included spectral analysis along with just listening to the differences at multiple volume levels. The HD500X isn’t even close in the JCM model that I used to compare the two.

 

What I found to be the problem here is the final "cabinet" modeling. IE: what makes it sound cool when coming out of full range speakers and not a guitar cabinet? These setting were also duplicated on both devices. And in this case using this model the two do NOT compare at all. The HD500 is a usable sound and the HD500x is useless except as a torture device for terrorist. Remove the cabinet simulator from the HD500X chain and use a 3rd party device and the unit is very nice and usable.

 

In hind sight I would NOT upgrade to a HD500X if I had a HD500. The HD500 I have is studio only use, I bought the HD500X for live use. I even bought the upgrade model packs in hope of making the unit useful by itself. $600.00 total mistake. I should have bought a used HD500 - however they tell me the hardware is better on the HD500X, time will tell I guess.

 

So, the 500X has somewhat different "IRs" for cabs?

 

I have heard some differences on youtube comparision videos where the HD500X seems to be brighter.

 

Thank you for your advice. I have already a potential buyer for my HD500 but now the X is not so attractive to me anymore.

 

Any other user experiencie out there?

[colmac2000]

I can't remember where I read it (probably this forum!) but someone was saying they replaced the built-in cabs in the Pod with a H&K Red Box in the loop and got very good results...it's a shame you can't load 3rd party IR's the way you can with Amplifire, Helix, Fractal etc...

 

So far I have only used the Pod into real cabs but it would be nice to have decent cabs for silent practice & recording.

[pianoguyy]

And yet, I don't have an issue with the unit. 

Not only do I not have a problem dialing in tones, I pointed to an album(s) where people can go hear the Pod in action next to non-Pod units. 

[Jasonbrianmerrill]

FYI, I ditched the Variax and the Pod500x and stopped breaking strings. Now I have a fender strat with a peavey classic 30, I recently just put an HX effects between them, let's see how it goes :) 

 

I'll always give you a chance, Line 6 ;)