Custom models sharing

[paolostar]

Is there a link for sharing guitar models? Something similar to Fender FUSE for ampli...

I am interested in listening some good customized acoustic guitar models.

feel free to share your settings here. Thanks

[SteveFrance]

Unfortunately, there's no custom tone's like for Variax on line 6's site (it would be a good thing).

I've found some poeple who shares their models on Vguitar.

 

What are you using your variax with ?

[paolostar]

I use it with a Yamaha Keyboard PSR970 which has a guitar input plug.

I am playing with Line 6 Workbench but none of my trials made be happy with the sound.

Maybe someone else can share his settings...

[cruisinon2]

I use it with a Yamaha Keyboard PSR970 which has a guitar input plug.

I am playing with Line 6 Workbench but none of my trials made be happy with the sound.

Maybe someone else can share his settings...

Getting good acoustic sounds is dependent almost entirely on the speakers you're listening through. What are you monitoring with? I'm guessing that the keyboard you're plugging it into may be coloring the sound as well... hard to say without more info.

[paolostar]

Getting good acoustic sounds is dependent almost entirely on the speakers you're listening through. What are you monitoring with? I'm guessing that the keyboard you're plugging it into may be coloring the sound as well... hard to say without more info.

I tried on a AER Compact 60 Ampli, known for being the Top for acoustic guitars.

i didndn't expect the sound of a real acoustic guitar but I am a bit disapponted. Maybe the settings...?

[gbr13697]

Running the Variax through almost anything with a pre-amp, with it's own EQ etc., will have a disastrous effect on the acoustic models.  They sound awful through a conventional guitar amp.  I run all my guitars, including the Variax, through a Helix using the 4 cable method.  For electric models I have presets that run some pedals into the guitar input of the amp, back to the Helix via the effects loop where delay and reverb are added, and then back to the power section of the amp.  This is fine for the Variax electric models, but terrible for the acoustic models.  For the acoustics I have presets with just volume and EQ and NO use of the effects loop. The Helix out goes straight into the amp's Effects Return, so that I am only using the power section of the amp and totally by-passing the pre-amp and EQ.  Given that a guitar amp is all I have, this works quite well and achieves a reasonable sound.

If you are going through a piano, you are using the pre-amp and EQ of the piano, and the effect will be rather less than ideal.  That said, the Varaix acoustic models are no more than a substitute to be used only when you can't use a proper acoustic, and the 12 strings just sound like a guitar through a chorus pedal!  

[SteveFrance]

@paolostar :

In this configuration, have you plugged your variax directly into your amp (not in your keyboard) ?

It would work because you have an acoustic amp.....

To improve that, you can tweak with worbench to setup.... You should try with the acoustic model 1 or 5, they are the more beautifull and realistic models (the two 12 strings are more synthetic, it needs more tweaks)

Have you positionned the tone knob in the middle ? For the acoustic models, it corresponds at the micro position so it plays on the treble and the low.

What i have read too and noticed after, is that you have to play softly and with a thin pick to have the more accurate results.

Some said the gauge can change the sound too.

The last point, i've had the same feeling when i took the variax. I think that the modeling wasn't so good. 

Then, i took my electro acoustic guitar and i've noticed that the sound coming from the amp was worse than the variax but the sensation is strange because you don't have Acoustic resonance chamber with the variax and it's a little disturbing.....

 

@gbr13697 : It seems you plug an acoustic guitar into an electric amp ; the result is automatically bad !

[gbr13697]

@paolostar : "@gbr13697 : It seems you plug an acoustic guitar into an electric amp ; the result is automatically bad !"

 

I agree - it is bad when it is an acoustic model on a Variax.  But like many guitarists who own a Variax and other electric guitars, an electric guitar amp is what I have.  Let's not forget that a Variax is an electric guitar, and it has magnetic pickups just like any other electric guitar.  It also has piezo pickups and emulates other guitars and instruments, but these are also mostly electric guitars.  It makes sense that the Variax in magnetic mode, and in emulation mode with electric models, will be used through an electric guitar amp.  It is also quite likely that the signal chain will pass through a number of pedals, or a Helix etc.

What does not make sense is that we should have to change to a completely different rig just to use the acoustic models.  The whole point of having a Variax is that there is a switch to go from electric to acoustic models.  I don't think it is asking too much that we should be able to switch to an acoustic or 12 string model without switching to a whole new rig, let alone having to buy one just so we can use a few emulation models on one guitar.  I acknowledge that a guitar amp is not ideal for amplifying an acoustic guitar, but I also have 3 acoustic guitars with piezo pickups that will work perfectly well through my electric guitar amp.  Yes, they would sound better through a proper acoustic amp, but the sound is acceptable.  So why is that not possible with the Variax?

 

The idea that "you only need one guitar" is very attractive.  It sours a bit when you find that you also need two entirely separate amplification rigs to play it through.

[cruisinon2]

@paolostar : "@gbr13697 : It seems you plug an acoustic guitar into an electric amp ; the result is automatically bad !"

 

I agree - it is bad when it is an acoustic model on a Variax. But like many guitarists who own a Variax and other electric guitars, an electric guitar amp is what I have. Let's not forget that a Variax is an electric guitar, and it has magnetic pickups just like any other electric guitar. It also has piezo pickups and emulates other guitars and instruments, but these are also mostly electric guitars. It makes sense that the Variax in magnetic mode, and in emulation mode with electric models, will be used through an electric guitar amp. It is also quite likely that the signal chain will pass through a number of pedals, or a Helix etc.

What does not make sense is that we should have to change to a completely different rig just to use the acoustic models. The whole point of having a Variax is that there is a switch to go from electric to acoustic models. I don't think it is asking too much that we should be able to switch to an acoustic or 12 string model without switching to a whole new rig, let alone having to buy one just so we can use a few emulation models on one guitar. I acknowledge that a guitar amp is not ideal for amplifying an acoustic guitar, but I also have 3 acoustic guitars with piezo pickups that will work perfectly well through my electric guitar amp. Yes, they would sound better through a proper acoustic amp, but the sound is acceptable. So why is that not possible with the Variax?

 

The idea that "you only need one guitar" is very attractive. It sours a bit when you find that you also need two entirely separate amplification rigs to play it through.

If you can get a "real" acoustic guitar to sound good through an electric guitar amp, then salúd!... you're the first one in history.

 

A typical electric guitar amp has a very narrow frequency response... it's just the way they are. Unfortunately for us all, the harmonics and overtones that make an acoustic guitar sound like what it is, are WAY outside that range. I guarantee if you A/B your acoustic through your amp, and then a flat FRFR speaker, it will be a night and day difference.

 

And fwiw, you absolutely do not need two separate rigs to use a Variax effectively. One FRFR rig is more than capable of producing excellent acoustic AND electric tones.

[gbr13697]

Hi cruisinon2

My comments were expressing the perception that many potential Variax purchasers will have, i.e. they have one or more electric guitars, an electric guitar amp, and perhaps an acoustic.  The marketing for the Variax can easily lead such a person to expect that, with the Variax, "one guitar is all you need".  Strats, Les Pauls, 335s, acoustics, banjo, etc.  It's all in there at the flick of a switch.  No-one says anything about needing an FRFR rig.

 

An FRFR rig may be the ideal for a Variax simulations but, for many electric guitarists, a traditional valve amp with a few pedals is what they have, what they like, and what they use.  An FRFR rig on it's own will not produce excellent electric tones, unless all you want is ultra clean.  It certainly won't, on its own, produce the full range of tones that players expect from a valve amp and a selection of pedals.

I did not say that my acoustics sound good through an electric amp - just acceptable.  The Variax acoustic simulations, used in the same way, are not.

 

The Variax is an electric guitar with magnetic pickups, and it will function just like any other electric guitar through an electric guitar amp.  However, the Variax is sold on the basis that it can do far more than that, and can emulate acoustic guitars and other instruments.  Many potential purchasers will assume that it can do that through the same gear they use for their other guitars. I just think that the marketing should make it very clear that this is not the case, and that the acoustic emulations are pretty much useless unless you are prepared to invest in a lot more gear.

[cruisinon2]

An FRFR rig on it's own will not produce excellent electric tones, unless all you want is ultra clean. It certainly won't, on its own, produce the full range of tones that players expect from a valve amp and a selection of pedals.

There's nothing wrong with liking tube amps, and I still own 2 myself... but frankly, this assertion is comical. Live and in the studio, today's modelers from L6, Fractal, and Kemper, and others, have an established track record of fooling numerous "golden eared" musicians, producers, and recording engineers. Many touring pros would be laugh at the notion they aren't getting what "players expect" from their straight to FOH, FRFR platforms. If they didn't like the results, they'd go back to their tubes....but how fortunate they all are, to be shown the error of their ways.

 

I know, I know...obviously I can't hear what you can. Ugh.

[gbr13697]

I didn't want to get into an argument, but you could at least read what I said.  "An FRFR rig on it's own will not produce excellent electric tones" .  You say this is comical, but then go on to talk about modellers from L6, Fractal, and Kemper.  

I have just observed that the Variax marketing could mislead the typical guitarist into believing that the simple addition of a relatively cheap guitar will enable him to get credible electric and acoustic tones, without any additional expenditure.  I did not claim that digital modelling is not as good as old style valve equipment, just that an electric guitar amp is more likely to be what that typical guitar player already has.  I have seen all the comparison videos where experienced musicians can't tell the difference between a real amp and a Kemper profile, and I am more than open to using them.  I do own and use a Helix; it cost 3 times as much as the Variax.

I am just pointing out the simple fact that the Variax is promoted as something that can create a lot of sounds for not much money, and this is likely to appeal to people who don't have that much cash. Those people are not going to be impressed with finding that those sounds are not achievable with what they have.  Acquiring, as you suggest, an FRFR amplification rig and a Helix, Axe FX or Kemper is going to cost up to 10 times the cost of the Variax.  This is something they need to know before they buy a Variax, not something they discover on a forum like this when they find that the acoustic emulations don't match up to their expectations.  

[cruisinon2]

I didn't want to get into an argument, but you could at least read what I said. "An FRFR rig on it's own will not produce excellent electric tones" .

I can read just fine. Did the conversation stray from Variax a bit? Yes...it happens. Terribly sorry. Oh well.

 

I responded specifically to the statement above which you evidently believe to be Gospel. I do not... and I'm not alone. So we'll just have to agree to disagree. Use an amp, don't use an amp...nobody cares. But to declare that an FRFR set-up is insufficient "on it's own" to get good electric tones is ludicrous, as there are many players out there doing exactly that, with or without a Variax.

 

Moving on...

[gbr13697]

It seems we just disagree on whether an FRFR rig is powered speaker amplification (i.e. just another name for studio monitors or a PA), or if it includes a modeller as well.  I don't think many people would assume it includes a modeller.  Powered speakers/FRFR plus a modeller is going to cost a lot of money.  If you already have this gear, it makes sense to also have a Variax.  However, if you don't, it's another story.  Spending upwards of £/$2,000 to make acoustic emulations on a £/$300 electric guitar sound nearly as good as real £/$500 acoustic guitar doesn't make a lot of sense to me.  And potential purchasers of a Variax should know that before they buy one.

[SteveFrance]

There's no lie from L6 :

The Variax can imitate a lot of guitar (electrics or acoustics).

 

If you want an acoustic sound, you have to use an acoustic amp or buy a modeler and a FRFR.

The Variax won't do miracles and turn your electic amp into an acoustic one !

 

The philosophy of the Variax (and modelers in general) has to change all the way to think about our own rigs.

I don't even understand why using a Helix with just one electric amp and whatever the connection....The modelers are limited by pre-amp/amp or cab.....

 

For the price, i think this is what you told (with a helix modeler which is not the cheapest one !)

On the other hand, you have to invest into an electric guitar, an electric amp (the cost is not the same with tubes), an acoustic guitar and an electro acoustic amp.

You've got approximately the same investment but are limited with the panel of sounds, the flexibility is not the same and what about the weight....

[gbr13697]

There's no lie from L6 :

 

I didn't accuse anyone of lying, and I apologise if I gave that impression.  But please do put yourself in the position of a kid with very little money.  He may well have a cheap electric and a solid state amp, or a second hand valve amp.  He wants something better, but can't afford an expensive guitar, better amp, or a decent acoustic.  Then he sees the advertising for the Variax Standard.  Take a look at the product pages yourself - they are only a couple of clicks away from the Line 6 logo at the top of this page."Imagine if you could switch your guitar from its natural electric guitar tone to perfectly modeled versions of the world’s most coveted vintage electrics, classic acoustics and exotic instruments, all with the simple twist of a knob."   The Variax Standard is a cheap guitar and, to a kid who can afford that modest investment, it can look like the answer to his dreams.  It is easy to fall for the idea that "one guitar is all you need".

The adverts, and the product pages I referred to, say nothing about needing a modeler and FRFR powered speakers.  He buys a Variax and plugs it into the gear he has, and discovers that all the acoustic simulations are virtually unusable.  

He turns to sources of information such as this forum, where the more experienced, and better resourced, old hands tell him that he can't hope to get decent acoustic sounds out of a Variax without spending at least 5 times what he has already spent on getting a modeller and FRFR speakers.  He doesn't have that money, and ends up very disillusioned. 

I based my approximation of the price on the Helix because that is what I have - it isn't the cheapest, but it isn't the most expensive either.  Likewise the FRFR speakers can cost huge amounts.

I have seen many contributions to these forums from people who have been very disappointed that the Variax doesn't do what they expected.  Their expectations may have been unrealistic to those "in the know", but they were not members of that privileged club when they bought what they thought would do it all.  Being told that the Variax won't do what they expected unless they can spend at least 5 times as much again on other gear is not very helpful.  I understand that the purpose of marketing is to sell products, but it should include some pointers as to the minimum gear requirements that will allow a Variax to perform the way it should.

[SteveFrance]

I understand what you mean. The marketing always needs to make us dream !

Of course, they forget a little to tell us that to obtain this sound you have to own all those products behind....

 

But, i had the same bad surprise with a "standard" rig.

I've bought a gibson SG, a fender strat US, a fender amp and an electro-acoustic Takamine. The seller never told me that i needed an acoustic amp to play trhough ?!

I thought that i had all the best instruments to play with.

So with my band, i didn't bring my acoustic guitar because i couldn't be amplified. I didn't want to invest more (i thought it was enough) and move all that stuff every time.

I only played it at home or with friends.....It's a pity !

[DaemonSlayer]

just thought I would chime in with my experience of owning the variax standard for 1 day.

 

gear I already had before purchasing the variax is the line 6 DT25, which I use only at home, but also have used the xlr to record from the amp. 

 

So finally got the variax standard and charged the battery. I then instantly tried the accoustic modelling once the battery had charged. I was blown away by the sound plugged direct into the DT25. I also have the pod hd500x and using the acoustic modelling with headphones sound even better, so I will have to use different amp models for acoustic.

 

this guitar will make an excellent studio guitar with the different models you can get, and depending on amp/pa could use the acoustic models for live play.

[jerseyboy]

Variax acoustic models really only work well with appropriate full range amplification.  I don’t see that as a problem with marketing or product info.  Solutions abound to get the “best” live acoustic tone.  Sometimes it’s simply a matter of A/B switching for appropriate signal paths.  Treat it like a vocal channel IMO.

 

But yeah, it’s a poor and sometimes eggy compromise if/when relying on a tube electric guitar amp for Variax acoustic models.  It’s not gonna deliver better than conventional acoustic pickups (Tak, Fishman, Taylor, Baggs, K&K, etc) running into a clean Deluxe, for example.  Granted, those don’t sound acoustic either but it’s an industry accept tone.  

 

For years users have requested “piezo pickup” acoustic models from Variax.  Don’t hold your breath but doing so could help diminish this conundrum for some of us working various live setups.  

 

However, I’ve found there’s almost always a simple solution even with Variax electric models screaming through DC30.  Often simply A/B to Full Range input, fold some back to a wedge, biscuit or something, and enjoy one of the “best” live acoustic tones going.  Definitely worth the effort.  

[psarkissian]

Be careful with 3rd party patches. Have heard about some that had amplitude volumes

between patches that were so overly normalized, that they created, contributed to, or made

worse that plink tone that everyone seems to hate so. Be aware of that when acquiring

3rd party patches, sight unseen (or unheard).

 

 

[lkolenaty]

Hello, I perfect source for Variax Workbench patches ( that are praised by many users including me..) can be found at Vguitarforums.com

section:

Line-6 Variax
	Variax General Discussion	656 Posts  94 Topics	Last post by admin in Re: JTV- Mag Pickup Swap... on February 10, 2019, 05:03:58 PM
	Variax Top things to know	423 Posts  59 Topics	Last post by cbeattyjr in Swampy groove with Varia... on March 11, 2019, 12:46:51 PM
	Tyler Variax WorkBench HD Patch Exchange To upload patches, simply hit "New Topic" (see tab on upper right) - and post a description of your patch and add it as an attachment or download the tones you want.

[jerseyboy]

Hello Ikolenat.  Are these for older Workbench or newer HD as applied to current Variax Standard & JTV models?  This forum is for the later FYI....

[lkolenaty]

I use them as the HD ones, not sure if they work with the older WB.

[lkolenaty]

To be more specific - I have Variax Standard and especially patches by Arislaf are really better than the original ones

[arislaf]

On 2/7/2018 at 5:58 PM, paolostar said:

Is there a link for sharing guitar models? Something similar to Fender FUSE for ampli...

I am interested in listening some good customized acoustic guitar models.

feel free to share your settings here. Thanks

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?board=138.0

[arislaf]

On 3/15/2019 at 11:04 AM, lkolenaty said:

To be more specific - I have Variax Standard and especially patches by Arislaf are really better than the original ones

Thank you very much mate!!!