Bug with Joystick After 2.80 Update

[giggles666]

I'm having some weird issues after the Helix 2.80 update. My joystick is now wonky. I can no longer "push" the joystick in to open the model list when making or editing blocks. I have to use HX Edit or manually turn the joystick to go through every effect or amp I'd like to use. While not mission-critical it's annoying to have to turn the knob for 3 minutes until I get to the amps.

Any advice or experience with this issue would be greatly appreciated.

And it's not a DSP issue, I've tried it on new/blank presets as well

[brettchinery]

I had the same - try a really quick push of the button - if you push it in slow, it will not respond 

 

[datacommando]

8 hours ago, giggles666 said:

I'm having some weird issues after the Helix 2.80 update. My joystick is now wonky. I can no longer "push" the joystick in to open the model list when making or editing blocks. I have to use HX Edit or manually turn the joystick to go through every effect or amp I'd like to use. While not mission-critical it's annoying to have to turn the knob for 3 minutes until I get to the amps.

Any advice or experience with this issue would be greatly appreciated.

And it's not a DSP issue, I've tried it on new/blank presets as well

 

Hi,

 

You don't say what type of Helix - Floor, Rack or LT and how old it is. 

 

I have owned my floor unit since November 2015 and a couple of weeks back the rotary section of the joystick failed. No warning, nothing playing up. just stopped - dead. It happens without warning and at first you think that you maybe imagining it, but no - it's gone. With mine, the jog function still worked and similar to you I found that I could use HX Edit as a work round, but it needed to be fixed. PITA to try saving and naming a new preset on the unit.  If it had happened just after a firmware update, like you, I would have suspected that as being the cause. Although on various sites around the internet you will find comments from people who have had the joystick fail on units that are almost new and older ones that have been on the road for years. It's not a big deal, and if it actually is a hardware issue rather than a problem caused by the Firmware update, it will probably be one of the solder tags has failed and needs reconnecting.  Have a Line 6 Service engineer check it out if it's still under warranty, or even if not, it will still need mending.

 

Hope this helps

[Verne-Bunsen]

I had a joystick failure on my first Helix, and as datacommando says, it happens very suddenly. No indications of impending failure, it just works one second and not the next. The correlation with the 2.8 update could be coincidental.

[PierM]

10 hours ago, giggles666 said:

I'm having some weird issues after the Helix 2.80 update. My joystick is now wonky. I can no longer "push" the joystick in to open the model list when making or editing blocks. I have to use HX Edit or manually turn the joystick to go through every effect or amp I'd like to use. While not mission-critical it's annoying to have to turn the knob for 3 minutes until I get to the amps.

Any advice or experience with this issue would be greatly appreciated.

And it's not a DSP issue, I've tried it on new/blank presets as well

 

Check in the Global Settings———>Preferences

 

Check that Joystick Encoder it’s set to Model. This is the original behavior.

 

If it’s set to Selection, it is moving Left/Right while rotating, but you can still select Models if you rotate while pushing.

[giggles666]

Hey, thanks, everyone. I will try some of the suggestions with Global Settings. Yeah, it's a big pain to make presets without HX edit so hopefully, even if it's a repair it's worth it. I am so addicted to this thing lol.

Sorry, it's a Helix LT and is about 1.5 years old.

[NickM62]

This happened on my LT too after installing 2.80.

I don't think there is anything wrong with the joystick as you can turn it and press it to select the setlist you want

after pressing the left hand encoder. It doesn't work when trying to select the model, although you can turn it and

it will scroll through ALL the models.

I went back to 2.71 and the joystick behaves as expected (as expected).

 

[Verne-Bunsen]

It would be great if it was just a setting issue, I’d forgotten that the joystick behaviour was tinkered with in the update.

[datacommando]

Be interested to know if this is simply something that happened with the Update when the Globals were reset, which it could well be, as noted by “NickM62” when reverted to 2.71 everything was fine.

 

On the other hand, should it be the result of a sudden hardware failure, a repair is not too expensive. Approx £100 in the U.K.

[PierM]

Ok I've been able to repro, and seems some instability in the code.

 

Basically both click and rotate, to select models and/or to access the model page, are like hanging and/or not responding, but yeah, isn't hardware related; it's code which seems looping somewhere and losing realtime catching on the Joystick status.

This problem it's happening only when Joystick Encoder it's set to "model", so I'm pretty sure it's related to the update. (even because the same Joystick works flawless for any other browsing action, outside the patch).

[jpdennis]

On ‎07‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 8:41 AM, PierM said:

 

Check in the Global Settings———>Preferences

 

Check that Joystick Encoder it’s set to Model. This is the original behavior.

 

If it’s set to Selection, it is moving Left/Right while rotating, but you can still select Models if you rotate while pushing.

Thanks for the suggestion.  My joy stick works fine for everything but adding a new model in an unoccupied location.  I have to double tap it (not hard just twice).  Then it wakes up to let me select the model I want to add.  If a model is existing at that location it works fine.  I'll check this when I get home this evening.

 

[ak4ray]

Mine is doing this as well, seems intermittent.

Sounds like something that will have to be fixed in version 2.81

 

[ak4ray]

All, I just wanted to pass on some info, the reason for this behavior is that they added a feature where you press and hold the encoder and turn it to scroll through the signal chain.

You now have to press the encoder quickly and it will work correctly.

I was told by a tech that they may be adding a way to turn that feature off.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Ray

[datacommando]

1 hour ago, ak4ray said:

All, I just wanted to pass on some info, the reason for this behavior is that they added a feature where you press and hold the encoder and turn it to scroll through the signal chain.

You now have to press the encoder quickly and it will work correctly.

I was told by a tech that they may be adding a way to turn that feature off.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Ray

 

Hi Ray,

 

Re: Turn it off, not quite.

 

This is a feature in v2.81.0 Firmware - The Joystick can be switched from "Model" to "Selection" and you can find it in your Helix Global Settings > Preferences > Joystick Encoder.

"Model" makes it work as it always has and "Selection" allows you to scroll through the signal chain. Set whichever mode you prefer.

 

Hope this helps/makes sense

[ak4ray]

33 minutes ago, datacommando said:

 

Hi Ray,

 

Re: Turn it off, not quite.

 

This is a feature in v2.81.0 Firmware - The Joystick can be switched from "Model" to "Selection" and you can find it in your Helix Global Settings > Preferences > Joystick Encoder.

"Model" makes it work as it always has and "Selection" allows you to scroll through the signal chain. Set whichever mode you prefer.

 

Hope this helps/makes sense

 

Hi and thanks for the answer.

 

That feature was enabled in 2.80 and the issue is that if you do not press the encoder quickly enough it will seem like the model list is not opening leading some to believe either that the update has a bug or their encoder has failed.

I actually sent my helix to line 6 to help resolve this issue, changing the behavior will not resolve this that just changes it so that if I want the model list I need to press and hold which I do not want to do, what resolved it is knowing to pressing the encoder quickly to open the model list or slowly and hold to scroll.

 

The tech at Line 6 that I was working with said that "internally" they requested that the engineers make it so that you can turn off the press and hold behavior, which is what I would want to go back to the way it behaved before the update now that I know to press the encoder quickly it's not so much an issue.

 

Thanks

 

Ray

[Grimbly77]

Here also problems with the joystick after updating to firmware 2.81.1

It, after reading this topic, helps to push the joystick shortly to select the models menu.

I bought my Helix lt today and at first the joystick worked correctly but after the update not.

 

Greetings 

[ak4ray]

29 minutes ago, Grimbly77 said:

Here also problems with the joystick after updating to firmware 2.81.1

It, after reading this topic, helps to push the joystick shortly to select the models menu.

I bought my Helix lt today and at first the joystick worked correctly but after the update not.

 

Greetings 

Yep...It's not a bug...it's a feature :-P

[DonSpiegel]

On 7/23/2019 at 1:54 AM, NickM62 said:

I went back to 2.71 and the joystick behaves as expected (as expected).

 

 

 

I didn't upgrade right away from 2.71 because I know about being on the bleeding edge.

 

My Helix floor suddenly started exhibiting this behavior.  I sent it in under Extended Warranty and the loaner (on 2.81) they sent me does the same thing.

 

My unit came back. I updated to 2.81.  It just started acting the same way... again.

 

I don't see any correlation with firmware revision.

[markjchurcher]

Did anyone really sort this problem out. It has to be upgrade dependent surely?? 

[im_helix]

Hey guys, I also have been having this issue along with the issue of the loud hum (which now has been fixed). I have Helix's floor. Will try PierM's solution.

[markjchurcher]

Do line 6 actually read any of these forum problems. I have a ticket on this and they don’t seem to know about any of it!?.

i need mine working like it used to!! Over to you line6!,

[datacommando]

4 hours ago, markjchurcher said:

Do line 6 actually read any of these forum problems. I have a ticket on this and they don’t seem to know about any of it!?.

i need mine working like it used to!! Over to you line6!,

 

Hi Mark,

 

The short answer to “Do line 6 actually read any of these forum problems?”  No, or maybe yes, occasionally.

 

Posted at the top of this forum is a “sticky” post entitled "Why is Line 6 not responding???" - that should explain why.

 

If you really want to contact the main guys at Line 6, you will find Frank R and Digital Igloo usually hang out on the Helix Family group on Facebook or on TGP.

 

As for the joystick issue, it is a feature of the firmware, see my previous posts higher up in this thread. Don’t like it, you can revert to an earlier version of the firmware, but if the problem persists it may indicate that the joystick encoder tags need to be re-soldered.

 

Hope this helps/ makes sense.

[im_helix]

@PierM I did as you said with the joystick settings. It was already set to that. The short and quick push helps, but I never had to do that before...

[markjchurcher]

I have a ticket on the issue too. The problem is my joystick doesn’t work even with a quick press but all other functions with it seem fine. Other members have pointed out that if you revert to v. 2.7 the problem goes away so it’s very unlikely there is a solder fault. The tech did tell me that there was a deliberate feature on v2.80 to set the stick so a quick tap was all that’s needed. In my case none of that works! M

[datacommando]

1 hour ago, markjchurcher said:

I have a ticket on the issue too. The problem is my joystick doesn’t work even with a quick press but all other functions with it seem fine. Other members have pointed out that if you revert to v. 2.7 the problem goes away so it’s very unlikely there is a solder fault. The tech did tell me that there was a deliberate feature on v2.80 to set the stick so a quick tap was all that’s needed. In my case none of that works! M

 

 

Hi again, Mark,

 

This issue has been discussed at length in various parts of this forum, particularly in the “Bug Reports” sticky thread, where I got this simple fix from fellow user - “MonkeyXT”. After a repair to the Joystick tags, I updated the firmware and discovered the problem you describe and reverted to v2.7 which fixed the problem and I knew it was not a hardware failure. 

 

Here’s the quote from MonkeyXT:

 

“I was able to point someone else in the right direction with what I believe is the same behavior as you're seeing here - I believe that with the new options available for the joystick control, some internal parameters for the joystick controller functions have been adjusted.

Specifically, the push straight in to select.

It seems that v2.8x instructs that device to ignore any 'long' presses - and its idea of 'long' is still pretty short.

 

But, if you tap it in and release relatively quickly, I believe you'll find the control function will work predictably.

If you're willing to re-update, maybe give this a try.”

 

In another thread from early August - “Intermittent joystick since update” there is a post from “MusicLaw” who pointed out this is not a “bug” and referenced the official release notes from Line 6, which state:

 

————————

New Global setting option as of 2.80. 

 

The 2.80 RELEASE NOTES state:

Turn Joystick to Select Blocks

Helix Floor, Helix Rack, Helix LT

Currently, turning the joystick encoder scrolls through available models for the selected block. With 2.80, you can now choose to instead turn the joystick to quickly move across the signal flow.

From the Global Settings > Preferences menu, turn Knob 5 (Joystick Encoder) to choose “Model” or “Selection.”

“Model” remains the default.

SHORTCUT: Pressing and turning the joystick will provide the opposite setting; that is, when set to “Model”, press and turn the joystick to quickly move across the signal qow. When set to “Selection,” press and turn the joystick to scroll through available models for the selected block.

—————————

 

Maybe worth trying a re-installation of the latest firmware to see if that clears the glitch.

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

 

[moonshine2015]

I’ve just done the update to ver 3.0 tonight and I’ve noticed I cannot use my joystick either...if I wish to change parameters normally I would click on a block and turn joystick wheel also, this now does NOT do anything...hope line 6 can fix this issue. Only just purchased recently.

P.S. Two functions do NOT work with joystick...scrolling thru parameters if a block is entered, and no double tap to open the menu either.

Jono

 

i expect there will be a fix tho.....it’s happened tonight (Dec 1st 2020) All was fine with 2.8

 

[moonshine2015]

On 7/23/2019 at 11:30 AM, PierM said:

Ok I've been able to repro, and seems some instability in the code.

 

Basically both click and rotate, to select models and/or to access the model page, are like hanging and/or not responding, but yeah, isn't hardware related; it's code which seems looping somewhere and losing realtime catching on the Joystick status.

This problem it's happening only when Joystick Encoder it's set to "model", so I'm pretty sure it's related to the update. (even because the same Joystick works flawless for any other browsing action, outside the patch).

I’ve tried the FIX just there...(VER 3) nothing happens at all when you switch from MODEL to SELECTION at all...it’s actually a DUAL function as normally u can scroll thru parameters apart from double clicking Jog Wheel...non of these now work.

im afraid if this feature ain’t fixed mine is gonna be returned ASAP...(under warranty)....really brilliant feature. What a shame it’s faulty, hope it’s a bug in the update.

[PierM]

11 hours ago, moonshine2015 said:

I’ve tried the FIX just there...(VER 3) nothing happens at all when you switch from MODEL to SELECTION at all...it’s actually a DUAL function as normally u can scroll thru parameters apart from double clicking Jog Wheel...non of these now work.

im afraid if this feature ain’t fixed mine is gonna be returned ASAP...(under warranty)....really brilliant feature. What a shame it’s faulty, hope it’s a bug in the update.

 

I really believe we are talking two completely different things here. I was just describing that sort of lag or skipped bit, by the joystick. Same lag/skipped bit when browsing preset with the other rotary selector. What Im talking about it's just a little glitch but doesnt break any of the the joystick main functionalities.

 

Your seems a faulty joystick, or just a soldering issue. (I had two of these, in 3 years, with my previous Helix unit) Contact the L6 support.

[moonshine2015]

Ive purchased a B Model, you recon i should call the company i purchased this from...its workd tho until the update version 3.