Firmware 2.8 and DT Amps

[talonmm]

Prior to ver. 2.8, I still used my dt amps with the L6 cable connected to the Helix and dt amp.

 

With the gain down, I found the amp and helix worked well together, and I was quite pleased with the various tones they produced.  The clean tones, light overdrive tones, and heavy overdrive tones all sounded fine without having to send midi codes to the amp.

 

I was looking forward to the 2.8 upgrade to see the two units work even better together. 

 

Now that 2.8 is here, when I hook up the Helix and DT amp, they sound fine, but the amp's controls - such as gain, class a/b, pentode/triode and the I-IV voicings still are able to be modified on the amp controls. 

 

I thought that 2.8 helix firmware  would take control of the amp in the way the old hd500 hardware did.  Yes I realize the architecture in the Helix and HD500 hardware are very different and exact integration in the Helix is not possible, but am I doing something wrong?  Is there a way to disable the amp's preamp functions for better integration?

 

 

 

[the_bees_knees22]

The helix does control all the amps parameters.  It's just kinda buried in a menu.  Go to your OUT block on the helix, and in Helix Edit you'll see a menu

 

I think Phil_M or Digital_Igloo (I can't remember who) posted that the helix does bypass the built in preamp of the DT if the L6 link is connected.  It all worked pretty great for me.  ...but since I'm in an apartment and have no band, my DT will still sit here and collect dust for the time being lol :(

[talonmm]

thanks for the quick reply.  Unless I did something wrong, it appears the preamp is not being bypassed.  

 

I was able to raise gain and change voicings, and all other preamp functions on the  amp when the helix was connected with the L6t link.  The preamp functions changed the tones quite a lot.

 

The screen you are showing looks like it is not a seamless link, as the preset shows topology, channels, and many other options.

 

I guess once the editing is done, clicking the global button means that every preset will follow those exact parameters?  But doesn't the topology and other settings change clean tones and dirty tones quite a lot which means this is not a seamless integration?

 

And if I download a tone, and someone has modified the dt output using "global", does that conflict or change my global dt settings?

 

 

[adinelb]

I have the same problem.

 

I updated my Helix but when I'm going trough the L6 Link to my DT25 the preamp section of the DT25 is still there... Some guy told me to update the DT25 software to be able to bypass the preamp section. 

Today I'm going to buy a Midi to USB cable to be able to update the software of the DT25 and I'll let you know if this is goin' to work.

 

[talonmm]

I don't recall that an announcement was issued that a dt upgrade was created or needed?

 

Can anyone confirm that there is a dt upgrade and that's it's needed?

 

thanks

 

 

 

[PDKTDK]

 The last DT update which I believe is 2.x is required for L6 link compatibility with the Helix. 

 

By default the DT Channel a preamp is disabled when you are hooked up to helix 2.8 with L6 link.

 

Channel b by default has DT preamp enabled. 

 

 Also be careful with getting a generic midi to USB adapter. When the DT update first came out people had problems with it and I can verify the M audio MIDI adapter/USB works. 

[brue58ski]

An innaccurate statement was here. I have deleted it.

[adinelb]

Well, in my case for example, I just bought the DT25 a few weeks ago, but the amp was released in 2015, so clearly it may not be up to date. :)

[brue58ski]

18 minutes ago, adinelb said:

Well, in my case for example, I just bought the DT25 a few weeks ago, but the amp was released in 2015, so clearly it may not be up to date. :)

 

The most recent firmware/flash memory update on the download page is from 2012. Version 2.00.

[talonmm]

1 hour ago, brue58ski said:

 

The most recent firmware/flash memory update on the download page is from 2012. Version 2.00.

 

Brue58ski, you said earlier, there was a dt update from May 2018.

 

Can you please confirm which is accurate?  Thanks!

[phil_m]

3 hours ago, talonmm said:

I don't recall that an announcement was issued that a dt upgrade was created or needed?

 

Can anyone confirm that there is a dt upgrade and that's it's needed?

 

thanks

 

 

 

 

The DT amps have to be running the 2.0 firmware in order for the L6 Link control functionality to work properly. It's not new, by any means. It was released in 2012. But that added a ton of MIDI functionality to the DT amps, and that's what enables the L6 Link connection to work for these new Helix control functions.

[phil_m]

1 hour ago, talonmm said:

 

Brue58ski, you said earlier, there was a dt update from May 2018.

 

Can you please confirm which is accurate?  Thanks!

 

I don't see a DT update that was released in 2018... What model number are you looking at? What's the firmware version of that update?

[talonmm]

1 hour ago, phil_m said:

 

I don't see a DT update that was released in 2018... What model number are you looking at? What's the firmware version of that update?

 

Another question, I'm at work and not sure what my dt amp firmware is at the moment; but for those of us who find that they need to update the dt firmware:

 

It was mentioned that you need to have a specific midi to usb cable, as some cables don't work.  If some of us have to update,  and we are not sure if our midi to usb cable is the correct version, will we brick our amps or will the update just not work and the amp will be no worse off if we have an incompatible cable?

 

I hate to have to purchase a new cable if I find that I have what I believe might be the correct cable.

 

thanks

 

[adinelb]

That's it, guys!

The 2.0 Firmware update on the DT25 (or on any DT amp series) will solve all of your problems (Changing the Topology, Tube config., Power Amp, Reverb and going straight to the Power section of the amp via L6 Link)

I just update the firmware and it works great.

 

Problem solved!

 

P.S. When you're going to update the amp, don't forget this: the Midi In is going to the Midi out section, and the Midi out is going in the Midi in.

USB Midi Interface Used: E-MU Systems - Midi 1x1

[phil_m]

2 hours ago, talonmm said:

 

Another question, I'm at work and not sure what my dt amp firmware is at the moment; but for those of us who find that they need to update the dt firmware:

 

It was mentioned that you need to have a specific midi to usb cable, as some cables don't work.  If some of us have to update,  and we are not sure if our midi to usb cable is the correct version, will we brick our amps or will the update just not work and the amp will be no worse off if we have an incompatible cable?

 

I hate to have to purchase a new cable if I find that I have what I believe might be the correct cable.

 

thanks

 

 

The M-Audio MIDISport Uno is a good option. The problem with inexpensive USB to MIDI adapters is that they almost always depend on the built-in Windows MIDI drivers, and those drivers don't handle the type of Sysex streaming required for these sort of updates very well.

[brue58ski]

3 hours ago, phil_m said:

 

I don't see a DT update that was released in 2018... What model number are you looking at? What's the firmware version of that update?

 

What happened was I just looked for all the software instead of something specific and the thing that came up at the top of the list was a Line 6 monkey update ver 1.77. I just assumed it was included because it was part of an update at that time that took care of issues with the Shuriken. However, after looking further. I found  the most recent firmware update was, as stated earlier, 2.0 which was 2012. Sorry for the confusion. I'll edit my previous post.

[talonmm]

I did some research on this, found and ordered the M-Audiosport Uno.  That cable has one usb end to plug into a computer and then two midi ends.  if the amp has one midi jack, will this cable work by itself?

 

or do I need something else?

 

The need of a dt firmware upgrade explains why over the years with the helix, the midi commands never seemed to do anything to the helix amp.

 

[phil_m]

1 minute ago, talonmm said:

I did some research on this, found and ordered the M-Audiosport Uno.  That cable has one usb end to pllug into a computer and then two midi ends.  if the amp has one midi jack, will this cable work by itself?

 

The DT has MIDI in and MIDI out jacks... The cable on the Uno are labeled as to which one go to which jack. Just hook everything up and run Line 6 Monkey, and it will do everything for you.

[PDKTDK]

3 hours ago, talonmm said:

 

Another question, I'm at work and not sure what my dt amp firmware is at the moment; but for those of us who find that they need to update the dt firmware:

 

It was mentioned that you need to have a specific midi to usb cable, as some cables don't work.  If some of us have to update,  and we are not sure if our midi to usb cable is the correct version, will we brick our amps or will the update just not work and the amp will be no worse off if we have an incompatible cable?

 

I hate to have to purchase a new cable if I find that I have what I believe might be the correct cable.

 

thanks

 

 

 

 It won’t brick the amp. And by holding a few switches while powering on you can reset your amp. So there’s no risk. It will either work or it won’t.  It probably won’t even detect your amp if using an incompatible cable. 

[adinelb]

Ok, this is inasne.

I've got a path that's going form the Helix to the DT25, microphone (Shure Sm57), PA and another path going from the Helix straight to the PA.

Our sound guy is going to love me at the next gig. 

 

It sound stunning!

 

[talonmm]

thanks everyone, can't wait for my cable to arrive!!!!

 

 

[Hoagie7]

Has anyone found that the Helix (preamp) models have no volume or very little, when used on Channel A of your DT. I've had to use full amp and cab models to get anything close to a normal volume level. Plus the Helix still does not switch the Topography or class A/B. Yes I have re-flashed the firmware on the DT. 

[adinelb]

8 hours ago, Hoagie7 said:

Has anyone found that the Helix (preamp) models have no volume or very little, when used on Channel A of your DT. I've had to use full amp and cab models to get anything close to a normal volume level. Plus the Helix still does not switch the Topography or class A/B. Yes I have re-flashed the firmware on the DT. 

Not at all.

 

Have you updated your Helix to 2.8?

[talonmm]

My M audio cable finally arrived and worked like a charm!  I actually have 3 dt amps - a dt25 1x12, a dt50 head, and a dt50 2x12 (all purchased used a few years ago, cheaply when the pods died out and demand was quite low for these amps).

 

Much to my surprise 2 of the 3 had the latest update, the head did  not.  Monkey did a great job, although one time I had to reseed the usb plug in the computer to get Monkey and the amp communicating.

 

All three amps sounded incredible.  I want to stress that anyone who has not tried a dt amp with a helix will be blown away.  I have not tried the new line 6 powered speakers, but the difference between the amps and my stagesource (also bought used) is night and day.

 

There have been endless debates about amps in the room and powered speakers, but my helix never sounded better than last night with the dt amps!  And man, no matter what tones I chose on the helix and sent to the amps, they sounded alive, magnificent, loud as hell, and definitely like a killer amp in the room.  Yes, I was blown away.

 

Looks like the helix and dt amps only work in channel A. Other than master volume on the amp, no other controls change the tone when using the L6 link cable directly from the helix to the amps (a good thing as the helix took full control and made everything sound superb).

 

Thanks everyone for the advice and help!

[MIKEY9966]

so do i need usb to midi cable , or can i  use a reg  midi cable midi out of  m audio fast track 600 interface, and will a xlr  cable work as the line 6 link cable . if not how do i know if i have the right cable,, thanks

[Jugghaid]

USB to Midi Adapter. Just get the M-Audio one. My Mio didn't work. The M-Audio Uno did.

 

Update the DT through Line 6 Monkey. 

 

Then, if you want, you can download DTEDIT and clear everything out of channel A if you are having that issue as some people here may have?  And program in whatever you want on channel B.

 

I put a pretty consistent clean tone on Channel B so I can use it with all of my presets if I want. Basically adds an additional amp block to all of my presets.

 

XLR cable may or may not work. Get an AES/EBU cable to be safe.

[GeeTah]

? So is it safe to say that:

•     DT Amp Channel A utilizes the Preamp modeling from the Helix and the only control that works on the Amp is the Master Volume. 
•     DT Amp Channel B utilizes the Preamp in the physical DT amp and is controlled by either (1) the settings in the Helix found at output>midi>DT amp or (2) on the amp itself. 
•     Regardless of which scenario above is used, the XLR outs on the Helix unit will send the fully-baked signal chain out of the XLR's, including preamp model, amp and cab. 

 

Is this correct?

[phil_m]

48 minutes ago, GeeTah said:

? So is it safe to say that:

•     DT Amp Channel A utilizes the Preamp modeling from the Helix and the only control that works on the Amp is the Master Volume. 
•     DT Amp Channel B utilizes the Preamp in the physical DT amp and is controlled by either (1) the settings in the Helix found at output>midi>DT amp or (2) on the amp itself. 
•     Regardless of which scenario above is used, the XLR outs on the Helix unit will send the fully-baked signal chain out of the XLR's, including preamp model, amp and cab. 

 

Is this correct?

 

Your first two points are correct, but the Helix’s XLR outs won’t include cab and mic modeling unless you set up a split path and add a cab block. You can always use the DT’s XLR out if you want a direct out with cab and mic modeling.

[GeeTah]

 Would that be the case with both the scenarios above?  Or, just B? Last night I plugged the helix into my in-ears mixer into the Helix and the L6 link into my DT 25’s, in stereo. And my presets sounded about like they normally do  through my ears, even with the L6 link active.  I was using channel A on both the amps. …

 

More specifically, under scenario A above, when running the L6  link in stereo out to both my DT 25s, when running channel A on the amps, will I get the fully baked signal chain out of the helix XLR outs, or do I always have to go over to the amps and use those XLR else? 

 

 I need to send direct outs of my complete tones to FOH console.

Edited August 3, 2019 by GeeTah
Correction

[phil_m]

19 minutes ago, GeeTah said:

 Would that be the case with both the scenarios above?  Or, just B? Last night I plugged the helix into my in-ears mixer into the Helix and the L6 link into my DT 25’s, in stereo. And my presets sounded about like they normally do  through my ears, even with the L6 link active.  I was using channel A on both the amps. …

 

More specifically, under scenario A above, when running the L6  link in stereo out to both my DT 25s, when running channel A on the amps, will I get the fully baked signal chain out of the helix XLR outs, or do I always have to go over to the amps and use those XLR else? 

 

 I need to send direct outs of my complete tones to FOH console.

 

That's the case in scenario A and B. The L6 Link output is simply another option for the output block on the Helix. It will send out the signal from whatever you have in the signal path ahead of it. So if you have a cab model in the signal path, that signal with the cab modeling applied will be sent to the DT. Meaning you'd be running an emulated cab into a real cab. And that's probably not what you want to do.

 

If you want to run both a direct signal from the Helix and run the signal from the L6 Link in the DT amp, you'd need to so something like shown below. The one wrinkle is I'm using a Preamp block instead of a full amp block in this tone, so the direct tone from the Helix wouldn't have any power amp modeling...

 

[GeeTah]

Thank you for the explanation Phil!

[GeeTah]

Phil - could you explain use cases where the Remote: Off, Remote: Preset, and Remote: Global functions might be used or useful? Apparently 2.8 shipped with "off" as the default.

 

BTW - I ran the DT-25's at a fairly large venue show (3,000 seats) on Saturday night and was really happy with my tones. Our FOH engineer commented that he liked what he was getting from the XLR outs on the back of the DT amps. I did take my Mission Gemini 2 as a backup in case the DT's misbehaved or our engineering team didn't like what they got. But the G2 sat behind me all night plugged-into AC, but powered down. Still will run it a lot, but having the DT's is a really fun option. 

 

Thank in advance!