Future of Helix

[teknotard]

Long time line 6 user. I have an hx stomp for noodling/simple rig and hx effects for live rigs with a few different amps. Right now I mostly use helix native for recording.

 

All these new updates are amazing and I really hope line 6 continues the updates. I am pumped that all product line are getting the upgrades. I’m noticing that the newer models/verbs/delays are getting more resource intensive.
 

Occasionally I am getting limited on block in helix native. My stomp I keep simple but I don’t always get a chance to full explore and my hxfx is usually ok with the way I set up. 
 

anyways - to my question. Over the years I find myself less reliant on other pedal and even my tube amps. I feel like it is time to just bite the bullet, sell it all and just go with a full helix.

 

with all the updates it makes me wonder what line 6’s plans are. It wouldn’t make sense to develop a whole new line since the models are already excellent. At the same time, they haven’t introduced a new flagship in awhile.

 

 

[brue58ski]

First, you will rarely get to know any of Line 6's plans. It's a long story but I understand why. One reason is just so the competition can't take advantage of that info. But that ain't the only reason. There's a guy you will get to see here and on The Gear Page called Eric Klein also known as Digital Igloo. He is the Chief Product Designer. He has said the Helix definitely has a few more years in it. I take that to mean anywhere from 2 to 5 years. If anything came out soon, I would say it would only be to make it more powerful DSP wise so you can have more blocks. Many of the new models of things are DSP devourers.

 

Regarding Native, I believe it has several settings in it that will limit the DSP it uses to help you create patches. One setting to simulate the Full Helix DSP limit, one to simulate the HX Stomp DSP limit and one that is only limited by your computers power. i don't know where the settings are located as I am not at home. But I would check that out. Another thing Eric mentioned is that they start working on new hardware products about 5 years before they are released. For me the Helix has reached the quality I've been waiting for in modelers and it fills all of my needs. I would like more DSP but other than that, the next Gen would have to have a major sim improvement and I don't know what a major one would be since it's so close now. What about a way to add more DSP to my current Helix? via the USB port perhaps? How would they implement that? I have no idea. It's probably not feasible. But I can dream, can't I?

[PierM]

 

[datacommando]

56 minutes ago, teknotard said:

Occasionally I am getting limited on block in helix native.

Hi,

 

You must have your version of Native running in one of the hardware compatibility modes. Turn this restriction “off” in the preferences window.

 

From the Helix Native Pilot’s Guide - Rev P (v.3.15) - English - pages 14 & 15.

 

“Off - Once a preset is saved in, or exported from, Helix Native in this HC mode setting, the preset can be loaded or imported into Helix Native in this mode setting with no translation required. When set to Off, the UI and options are essentially the same as the Helix HC mode, but with several restrictions removed (see the "HC Mode Feature Comparison Table").
Just remember when working in this Off mode—with greater power comes greater responsibility! Without the restrictions imposed as in other HC modes, it is possible to create a preset in a single plugin instance that can place significant CPU demands on your computer system. Creating a preset that exceeds the limits of other HC modes also means the preset will not be able to be translated and utilized in HX Edit with any Helix or HX device and only loaded in Helix Native when it is set to the HC mode Off state.”

 

https://line6.com/data/6/0a020a4179ea61fd2e9472da7/application/pdf/Helix Native 3.15 Pilot's Guide - English .pdf
 

As for “Future Helix” - don’t hold your breath. Digital Igloo said over on TGP something to the effect of “Do you really think we would be spending so much time developing Firmware Updates for Helix, if it was to reach EOL in the next few years - no!”. As noted by “brue58ski” in the post above - even if they did have something in the pipeline, this is the last place you would hear about it.

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

[DunedinDragon]

15 minutes ago, brue58ski said:

I would like more DSP but other than that, the next Gen would have to have a major sim improvement and I don't know what a major one would be since it's so close now. What about a way to add more DSP to my current Helix? via the USB port perhaps? How would they implement that? I have no idea. It's probably not feasible. But I can dream, can't I?

As far as adding DSP that's pretty much limited by the very nature of what DSP is all about which has historically been referred to as "real time processing" but probably more accurately referred to as low latency processing.  However that fits into the same category as the CPU in your computer which really has to have direct access to the bus in order to be efficient as does the DSP processor.  Until you see the day you can upgrade your computer CPU via an external connection, I wouldn't expect you'll see anything such as you're describing.

I have recently come to my own conclusion about any Helix upgrades that may be in the offing at some point.  It appears to me that with the huge investment Line 6 is making in the HX technology and even now incorporating it into a stand alone amp, I would highly suspect the next generation of Helix may have better and more processing, but wouldn't likely outdate the current products.  There may be some upgrades that would be limited to a more powerful version, but I think it would be very hard to sunset the range of products they're continuing to introduce without alienating a bunch of customers.

[teknotard]

43 minutes ago, DunedinDragon said:

would highly suspect the next generation of Helix may have better and more processing,

 

Maybe that is what I am getting at more than anything else.

 

43 minutes ago, DunedinDragon said:

I think it would be very hard to sunset the range of products they're continuing to introduce without alienating a bunch of customers.

That was my thought. There is clearly a lot of investment in the current technology. Abandoning it would be a poor decision. 

 

I do not need to move to the full Helix yet, but I will one day.

[HonestOpinion]

4 hours ago, DunedinDragon said:

As far as adding DSP that's pretty much limited by the very nature of what DSP is all about which has historically been referred to as "real time processing" but probably more accurately referred to as low latency processing.  However that fits into the same category as the CPU in your computer which really has to have direct access to the bus in order to be efficient as does the DSP processor.  Until you see the day you can upgrade your computer CPU via an external connection, I wouldn't expect you'll see anything such as you're describing....

 

Just like a CPU, I can see a time where a socket could be provided for a DSP, and a device's owner would have multiple options as to how fast and powerful a chip they wish to populate the socket with. Dependent on how much they want to spend and what capacity they require. That might require some overbuilding on supporting circuitry, however. Don't know if it would be cost effective but the flexibility would be grand.

[adagosto]

Line 6 has repeated the talking point that they are a software company and they release software updates for their gear. So in other words, 'don't worry about our hardware, you're good to buy into our flagship and not have to worry that we'll release a model-up right after you do. You're good, stick with us.'

 

If they did not keep Helix going for another 5 years or so, it would kill these talking points and lollipop off a huge population and the trust would be gone for more than a decade. They really can't afford to do that especially now that the Quad Cortex is available. There's just too many better "sounding" options out there. For someone who gigs, the Helix is still the most reliable. Its funny how you can have EVERYTHING dialed in at home and the rehearsal studio, have it all planned out and in the first 10 minutes at the gig, you're entire plan starts to unfold in front of you. Helix still reins supreme in being able to adapt to changing conditions. So keeping that reputation is critical to their long term business plan.

 

That being said, you are correct in that newer models are sucking up more recourses and I'd expect new amp models will do the same. But they only have one choice, make the software more efficient and stay within the constraints of the hardware. This will take some crafty coding, but if they cannot, IMO, they will have to release a new hardware solution inside of 3 to 4 years.

 

The way I would look to see which way the wind is blowing here is to watch their updates. Two things to look at. (1) how often do the updates come and (2) are the updates causing DSP constraints? If the updates like 3.15 come somewhat often AND they are not causing conflict, we are likely good for another 5 years +. If the updates are slow AND causing problems, that means they are having problems writing crafty and more efficient code.

 

That's my take of this very good question.

 

 

[teknotard]

On 2/17/2022 at 10:34 AM, datacommando said:

You must have your version of Native running in one of the hardware compatibility modes. Turn this restriction “off” in the preferences window.

I noticed this setting the other day before I posted. I honestly did not see an off but I looked quickly. It is definitely set to Helix right now. That is what got me a bit frustrated. I had a delay, verb and two instances of Ventoux. No cabs.

 

Thank for the info,  I will def go home and see if I can turn it off. My CPU can more than handle it. I have been running multiple dozens of instances of Helix at a time.

On 2/17/2022 at 10:34 AM, datacommando said:

As for “Future Helix” - don’t hold your breath. Digital Igloo said over on TGP something to the effect of “Do you really think we would be spending so much time developing Firmware Updates for Helix, if it was to reach EOL in the next few years - no!”. As noted by “brue58ski” in the post above - even if they did have something in the pipeline, this is the last place you would hear about it.

Totally Agree. I am not advocating  to sunset the helix. It would totally isolate the entire community, more wondering if there will be an incremental upgrade. Much like Fractal where everything is the same but as the hardware upgrades you can better take advantage of new presets.

 

All in all - this was more of a rhetorical questions/rant. I will continue to wait patiently because I really do appreciate all the upgrades we have been getting!

[Jmontana19kc]

I have had Helix Native as long as I have had the Helix Floor.  Since I started reading the Big book of Helix Thursday, I looked on Youtube on how to use Native in Logic Pro X.  I love Helix Native now, except I am not sure how to save a preset.  lol. Any help would be appreciated.

[datacommando]

2 hours ago, Jmontana19kc said:

I love Helix Native now, except I am not sure how to save a preset.  lol. Any help would be appreciated.

Well, the best place to start with things like “how to save a preset” is the manual - it never fails.

 

Page 33 - Using the Preset File Menu

 

Oh, if you can’t find it - choose the Pilot’s Guide option from the menu to open the PDF

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

[M4ttK]

I'm a bit late to the party. I just ordered an HX stomp (after watching untold hours of content about it, testing Native extensively, owning/trying other multi-fx units etc.), and I don't think I'd regret this, even if they came up with a new flagship a day after I received it. For a few reasons:
 

1) The amps and effects are already very good. Introduction of a new product won't make them less good (in the absolute terms). There're many comparisons of HX vs. real amps and/or other, newer multi-fx units (FM3, Quad Cortex) out there, suggesting, that even if there's going to be an improvement in quality, it can't really be so big that it would render Helix modeling obsolete. 

2) "Good" or "better" is kind of a weird thing in the realm of music timbre anyway. Without going into a whole rant about this (I'm not the most qualified person, and God knows the world doesn't need another one of those) - there are tons of rackmount digital reverb/delay units from the 90's still getting studio use, either because they are still deemed "good" or "not good, but just the way I like it".
 

3) IR's kinda future-proofed all of the guitar effects units that are able to use them.
 

4) I'd need 3 more lifetimes to get as good as Tom Bukovac when it comes to guitar playing ability and getting tones as good as him... and he still has M9 from 2009 on his board. If the Line 6 "Legacy effects" are good enough for him they are good enough for me. 

I'm sure that the new generation of hardware is coming. The fact that XL came our last year, coupled with the chip shortage, makes me think that the new units are years away, but I don't really know. What I do know is that Helix is already able to generate great guitar tones, and that won't change no matter what and when Line 6 will choose to release next. 

[brue58ski]

I have the floor Helix. For now, I think I will wait on a Stomp. My hope being they keep the same models etc. but use whatever new hardware that's been developed that will give it more DSP.. It would mainly be for a backup which I have a POD HD 500X for now. I realize my dream could never come to fruition. Just a thought.

[teknotard]

One update. I wanted to thank everyone for their comments and thoughts.

 

As I said before, I am not advocating to abandon the current technology but more rhetorically wondered when/if the hardware will expand to use the software even more. 
 

thanks for the info on native. Changed the setting and whole new world opened! I have made some pretty insane multiband processing. 
 

I will say I now know the limits of Helix floor and the possibility and I am even more hopefully for a potential expansion

 

but for now keep on rocking!

[AlienSexGod]

I am looking at buying another Helix Floor but it doesn't make sense in 2023 on hardware.  (3 generations on) an updated DSP and some additional memory are needed at least.

 

R&D costs of the hardware were made back 7 years ago.

DSP chips are cheaper and 4 times more powerful in 2023.

An extra 8gb of memory costs what $100?

 

no hardware dev needed.... install newer DSPs, a modern heatsink and some extra memory DONE!

[datacommando]

On 1/27/2023 at 4:20 AM, AlienSexGod said:

I am looking at buying another Helix Floor but it doesn't make sense in 2023 on hardware.  (3 generations on) an updated DSP and some additional memory are needed at least.

 

R&D costs of the hardware were made back 7 years ago.

DSP chips are cheaper and 4 times more powerful in 2023.

An extra 8gb of memory costs what $100?

 

no hardware dev needed.... install newer DSPs, a modern heatsink and some extra memory DONE!

In case it missed your attention there has been a global pandemic over the past couple of years which has had an impact on the supply of various parts. One of the major things to be hit was the manufacture of microchips. See the blue banner at the top of this page - “Impact of Global Materials Shortage”.

 

You give the impression that, as you put it, “3 generations in” you are expecting no more development of this line? Over on TGP, it has been noted that Digital Igloo has mentioned yet more firmware for the Helix is still in progress.

 

Nothing makes sense in 2023 - waiting for the next big thing to come rolling down the tracks is an exercise in futility. You could wait forever! You really should buy what’s available right now to get the job done, or wait in vain.

 

I love the way that you describe how easy it would be to create this mythical beast of Helix 2 - “install newer DSPs, a modern heatsink and some extra memory DONE!” - Wow! I’m surprised that Eric hasn’t thought of that one already and told the team to just get on with it.

 

Yeah, right!

[codamedia]

On 1/26/2023 at 10:20 PM, AlienSexGod said:

I am looking at buying another Helix Floor but it doesn't make sense in 2023 on hardware.  (3 generations on) an updated DSP and some additional memory are needed at least.

 

R&D costs of the hardware were made back 7 years ago.

DSP chips are cheaper and 4 times more powerful in 2023.

An extra 8gb of memory costs what $100?

 

no hardware dev needed.... install newer DSPs, a modern heatsink and some extra memory DONE!

 

A new model with more DSP & Memory is inevitable.... when, we don't know. 

 

Here is what I know TODAY! My Helix sounds great, and I don't face any bottlenecks in horsepower or memory even though I am aware some do. When a new Helix is introduced my Helix will still sound great! As a gigging musician.... my Helix makes my life easy and also makes me a good chunk of change. Why would I put all of that on hold waiting for something I "expect" to be coming at "some point". 

 

Maybe EVH should have waited 2 more years for the JCM 800 instead of using that 10 year old Super Lead :) 

[DunedinDragon]

On 1/26/2023 at 11:20 PM, AlienSexGod said:

I am looking at buying another Helix Floor but it doesn't make sense in 2023 on hardware.  (3 generations on) an updated DSP and some additional memory are needed at least.

 

R&D costs of the hardware were made back 7 years ago.

DSP chips are cheaper and 4 times more powerful in 2023.

An extra 8gb of memory costs what $100?

 

no hardware dev needed.... install newer DSPs, a modern heatsink and some extra memory DONE!

I guess it all depends on what the next Helix actually is and what it does, but I personally have no plans at all regardless of what it does at this point.  I personally think the natural flex point in the processors used for modeling application was reached back when Helix was coming out as a competitor to Fractal's offerings primarily.  Since then not a whole lot has changed in the DSP market but there area a LOT more competitors which would insinuate my theory of the natural flex point of the technology is probably correct.

 

As has been noted previously, what modelers do and their processors can't be compared to the progress made in general purpose CPUs used in desktops and laptops, so you really can't think of them in the same way.  I could always be surprised by some real innovation in that particular part of the industry, but even were that to be the case everyone would be scrambling for many months/years in product development to get their systems launched.  Again that's another big difference between DSP and general purpose CPUs which actually are a composite of multiple processors including graphics and I/O processors.

The best market representation would probably be how long it took Apple to actually develop and launch computers into the market using their new M1 architecture after they first began working on it about 10 years ago.

[craiganderton]

Helix was overbuilt from the beginning in the areas that mattered the most for future updating. The design goal was specifically to create a platform. 

 

The technology is always less important than what you do with that technology. I have many digital devices from decades ago (e.g., Lexicon PCM-60) that use "antiquated" technology by today's standards. Yet they still sound as good as they did decades ago.

 

The main reason for wanting faster/more expensive/hotter-running DSP is to speed up the rate at which operations occur. If you find the latency in Helix unacceptable, then you may need a unit with more powerful DSP (of course, regardless of the DSP, there will always be the latency involved in A/D and D/A conversion). However, DSP alone isn't the only factor. The efficiency of the coding is crucial. Based on 3.50, it's pretty clear Line 6 has managed to increase the efficiency dramatically, or we wouldn't have better cabs that require significantly less DSP. 

 

The question is simply whether Helix produces the sounds and effects you want. If not, then you need to find a unit that does. However, if you like a different unit better, it may have nothing to do with the underlying technology, but with the people who did the coding.

[ha4dcore]

It seems like most people say that they won't be coming out with a helix 2.0 anytime soon especially when they release 3.5 update although I saw a different brand released a 2.0 version or what they call premier or something and from what I understand the amp modeling isn't quite as good but it has a 6-in color touch screen with beautiful interface, it has the cloud so you'll never run out of memory on your presets and IRs you purchase, you can share with other people via cloud, one step interface to make your own IRs... So many new up-to-date features that would be nice to see on a helix soon. I do like the modeling of line 6 and the sound is great but these up-to-date features we should really be seeing in 2023. My Helix rarely connects to a PC, you have to do a rain dance to get that to happen and it's because the drivers aren't signed. Something many people know about but probably will never get fixed. 

[DunedinDragon]

First off, loading presets from the cloud has nothing to do with running out of memory on your presets, unless you're talking about running out of preset slots.  The memory used once a preset is loaded has nothing to do with the cloud.  That's all a function of the DSP capacity within the unit and would be the same for any modeler.  I have no idea whether Line 6 is targeting a new Helix 2.0, but if so we won't know until it's pretty much ready for release.  That's just the way things work in this and most competitive industries.  I've had my Helix from the moment it was first released and I still haven't outgrown it and it still serves my purposes, but what I think you're seeing now is a lot of folks jumping into the field hoping they can create a spot for themselves by offering some "flashy" stuff that really has little to do with advancing the core abilities of a unit, but enticing people with some features that, in the end, won't improve much as far as performance.

The fact is, modelers are modelers.  They all work the same way and it pretty much comes down to how much "beef" (level and capacity of DSP) is in the unit.  Even if Line 6 were to introduce a unit like you're describing I certainly wouldn't be moved to part with another $1600 without something significant that really improves what the unit can do that's relevant to performing or recording.  Eye candy just doesn't impress me...functionality does.

 

As far as connecting to a PC, I've had both of my Helix Floor units since 2015.  One in my studio and one for live performance and each one is connected via USB to different PC's and both have worked every day I've owned them without fail and have never had any problems upgrading software or firmware.  If you've got your Helix unit and PC loaded correctly with firmware and the appropriately matched version of HX Edit and it's connected to a direct USB port (no hubs) you should have no problems.  That doesn't sound like any kind of rain dance to me.  That's just simple computer operations and reading and following directions.

[silverhead]

On 3/25/2023 at 3:55 AM, ha4dcore said:

…. from what I understand the amp modeling isn't quite as good but it has a 6-in color touch screen with beautiful interface, it has the cloud so you'll never run out of memory on your presets and IRs you purchase, you can share with other people via cloud, one step interface to make your own IRs... …. My Helix rarely connects to a PC, you have to do a rain dance to get that to happen and it's because the drivers aren't signed. 

Wow. So much disinformation. Let’s look at the above ….

- yes, if you prefer eye candy to sound quality a larger screen is nice

- as has already been noted, the cloud has nothing to do with running out of memory on your presets 

- see Customtone for sharing presets

- the new cabs in v3.5 are actually thousands of individual IRs wrapped up in a simple interface, greatly reducing any need to make/purchase and organize your own set of thousands of individual files. And they will likely keep coming in future updates.

- if your Helix doesn’t connect to your PC there’s a solvable problem with your computer setup. Unsigned drivers are not the problem.

 

If you do want to connect via USB without a rain dance, provide specific details of your problem, including your computer OS and all versions of Helix and driver software/firmware involved.

[PierM]

On 3/25/2023 at 8:55 AM, ha4dcore said:

It seems like most people say that they won't be coming out with a helix 2.0 anytime soon especially when they release 3.5 update although I saw a different brand released a 2.0 version or what they call premier or something and from what I understand the amp modeling isn't quite as good but it has a 6-in color touch screen with beautiful interface, it has the cloud so you'll never run out of memory on your presets and IRs you purchase, you can share with other people via cloud, one step interface to make your own IRs... So many new up-to-date features that would be nice to see on a helix soon. I do like the modeling of line 6 and the sound is great but these up-to-date features we should really be seeing in 2023. My Helix rarely connects to a PC, you have to do a rain dance to get that to happen and it's because the drivers aren't signed. Something many people know about but probably will never get fixed. 

 

 

I wouldnt hold my breath.

 

In more than 20 years I follow this brand, I dont remember a single core product copying something already existent in the market. In fact, it's pretty much the opposite. So, if any Helix 2.0 is in the plans, I believe will be something completely different than what you see around these days, and as the origianal Helix, will be probably looking to the future, not really to what people can already buy now from another brand.

 

Honestly, if they'd release a Helix/HX Mark II, with same core but better construction, top quality parts and less chinese low budget components, Id buy it again and I would be happy. :)

[craiganderton]

On 3/25/2023 at 2:55 AM, ha4dcore said:

My Helix rarely connects to a PC, you have to do a rain dance to get that to happen and it's because the drivers aren't signed. Something many people know about but probably will never get fixed.

 

Well, it works for me on Windows and Mac...but saying that doesn't do you any good!

 

Be aware that quite a few USB cables DO NOT have data lines, only power. They're supplied with consumer goods that only need USB for charging. You'll never get anything audio-related to work with those kinds of cables. Unfortunately, there's no outside indication whether a USB cable carries data or not (there should be!!). 

 

In addition to not using a hub, I've been told by people who know more about computers than me that it's good practice to use a USB port that's located close to the power supply (e.g., on the rear panel if it's a desktop) rather than one on the front panel. 

 

It's been said several times here how important it is to follow updating instructions to the letter. But there can also be connection oddities with different computers. For example, I have some USB peripherals that the computer won't recognize unless it's connected when the computer starts or restarts. With some other USB devices, the computer won't recognize them until you plug them in after the computer has booted.

 

Finally, with Windows, eject any Helix hardware the way you would any USB peripheral (e.g., a hard drive). If you do something like turn off your Helix, Windows goes to sleep, and then wakes up, it won't know what to do with this non-existent peripheral which its driver says still exists.

 

[dolfan058]

Having spent the weekend playing with my FIL's Helix Floor, I honestly can't see a way they can really iterate on the product much further outside of more DSP. I'm currently not in the market for a Helix yet, but have a serious case of GAS for one. It's just such a complete product and while I love my Pod Go Wireless for what it is and especially for introducing me to the modeling concept and getting me further hooked on the Line 6 ecosystem, the Helix Floor unequivocally blows it out of the water.

 

One thing I've noticed - is I've seen everyone talking about the potential improvements to a Helix 2.0, but what I'm concerned about is the things they may subtract. For example, one big reason I'd want to get a Helix now is because it has a Variax port. What if Helix 2.0 removes the Variax port as a cost-cutting measure? Sure, it may have all the extra DSP in the world, but as a Variax + PowerCab owner, this would be a gut-punch.

 

It's a tough game to play, on the one hand since I'm in no rush to buy one, I may as well wait and see if an upgrade does come out. On the other hand, what if this upgrade removes features I wanted? Things to think about!

[silverhead]

They might be able to make some further improvements in the firmware that reduces DSP requirements, as they did most recently with the v3.5 cabs but I think it’s highly unlikely that Helix will get a hardware upgrade that adds DSP.

 

In terms of ‘iterations’ there’s always more amps, FX, and - especially - cabs. V3.5 only addressed some cabs. Lots left to upgrade.

 

And, intriguingly, there’s this comment in the MIDI section of the Helix manual saying that MIC CC #s 70-78 are ‘reserved for future use’. What does that mean? Your guess is as good as mine.

 

As for features being removed in the next generation of modeling, it’s a valid concern. I think of Lock Tone 2 in the POD X3 and L6 Link in POD HD, DT amps, and StageScape/Source.  None of those exist in Helix.
 

Would they ever remove Variax compatibility in their flagship product? Unlikely but never say never. I think the longer the Variax product line remains static the more likely this becomes. Yamaha bought Line 6 shortly after the Yamaha Pacifica was used as the basis for Variax Standard. Since then Variax has been dormant, other than the Variax Shuriken which iirc was pretty much complete at that time. Hopefully that’s because Yamaha (a guitar manufacturer) has plans for it that are in development, and it may become a Yamaha-branded product. Will it continue to be compatible with Line 6 flagship products? Who knows.

 

Clearly the prudent thing for you to do would be to get a Helix Floor! NOW!!

[PierM]

Variax is pretty much legacy, even if they are still selling few items. Drivers are not usable in last gen OS, there is no firmware updates since ages, guitars are very hard to find, VDI adapters are pretty much gone, batteries distribution is still very erratic, and JTV59 are already legacy in Europe... They still says it's because "shortage of materials" but it can't be true, as anything else it's still being produced and distributed more or less like before the pandemic.

 

I wouldn't be surprised to see the VDI port being abandoned in the next gen products.

[brue58ski]

The Variax was described as a labor of love by a Line 6 rep. So I take that to mean it's not so popular but they still like it and are still supporting it. Maybe not a lot of support but it is still there. I hope they fix the JTV Variax tone/volume knob issue in the Helix before they completely bail on it.

[dolfan058]

On 3/28/2023 at 8:17 AM, silverhead said:

They might be able to make some further improvements in the firmware that reduces DSP requirements, as they did most recently with the v3.5 cabs but I think it’s highly unlikely that Helix will get a hardware upgrade that adds DSP.

 

In terms of ‘iterations’ there’s always more amps, FX, and - especially - cabs. V3.5 only addressed some cabs. Lots left to upgrade.

 

And, intriguingly, there’s this comment in the MIDI section of the Helix manual saying that MIC CC #s 70-78 are ‘reserved for future use’. What does that mean? Your guess is as good as mine.

 

As for features being removed in the next generation of modeling, it’s a valid concern. I think of Lock Tone 2 in the POD X3 and L6 Link in POD HD, DT amps, and StageScape/Source.  None of those exist in Helix.
 

Would they ever remove Variax compatibility in their flagship product? Unlikely but never say never. I think the longer the Variax product line remains static the more likely this becomes. Yamaha bought Line 6 shortly after the Yamaha Pacifica was used as the basis for Variax Standard. Since then Variax has been dormant, other than the Variax Shuriken which iirc was pretty much complete at that time. Hopefully that’s because Yamaha (a guitar manufacturer) has plans for it that are in development, and it may become a Yamaha-branded product. Will it continue to be compatible with Line 6 flagship products? Who knows.

 

Clearly the prudent thing for you to do would be to get a Helix Floor! NOW!!

 

My Pod Go Wireless would be so upset with me if I abandoned it haha. But you know what, I may just have to convince the wife that the tax refund was destined to be spent on a Helix Floor!

 

In terms of iterations - I agree with you that from a software perspective there's still a ton more they can do. I just feel from a hardware perspective there's not much more to be done, and I mean that in a complimentary fashion because the Helix Floor is such a complete product IMO.

 

Re: L6 Link - I thought that did exist in the Helix? Isn't that how you can connect your PowerCab via an AES/EBU cable? Or I may be thinking of something else.

[dolfan058]

On 3/28/2023 at 11:17 AM, brue58ski said:

The Variax was described as a labor of love by a Line 6 rep. So I take that to mean it's not so popular but they still like it and are still supporting it. Maybe not a lot of support but it is still there. I hope they fix the JTV Variax tone/volume knob issue in the Helix before they completely bail on it.

 

I can personally see why it was a labor of love. I absolutely love my Shuriken, it is hands down the funnest guitar I own. I wish the concept took off more, would love to see more work done on the software side (and I would've loved for these proprietary batteries to kick the curb), but I'm glad I own one.

 

You know... that's another reason to get the Floor. If the battery in the variax dies and I can't get a replacement, my only option is VDI to Helix. The pressure to get a Floor is real! Haha

[brue58ski]

On 3/28/2023 at 9:10 PM, dolfan058 said:

 

I can personally see why it was a labor of love. I absolutely love my Shuriken, it is hands down the funnest guitar I own. I wish the concept took off more, would love to see more work done on the software side (and I would've loved for these proprietary batteries to kick the curb), but I'm glad I own one.

 

You know... that's another reason to get the Floor. If the battery in the variax dies and I can't get a replacement, my only option is VDI to Helix. The pressure to get a Floor is real! Haha

 

I agree with everything you say. I'm still not sure exactly why they didn't take off more than they have. I think price, unfortunately, has a lot to do with it. The people that buy guitars in that price range I'm going to assume, are older and more set in their ways and have access to more money than younger people. They need to figure out how to get this into a $300 guitar. Don't ask me how. Just one of my many little theories. It's probably about several other things as well. There are other options for your Variax. Check these threads out. And I recall reading recently someone getting an off brand battery and said that it works. I'll keep an eye out for that thread. I have a Helix floor so I don't use the battery.

 

 

[dolfan058]

On 3/29/2023 at 7:20 AM, brue58ski said:

 

I agree with everything you say. I'm still not sure exactly why they didn't take off more than they have. I think price, unfortunately, has a lot to do with it. The people that buy guitars in that price range I'm going to assume, are older and more set in their ways and have access to more money than younger people. They need to figure out how to get this into a $300 guitar. Don't ask me how. Just one of my many little theories. It's probably about several other things as well. There are other options for your Variax. Check these threads out. And I recall reading recently someone getting an off brand battery and said that it works. I'll keep an eye out for that thread. I have a Helix floor so I don't use the battery.

 

 

 

Thanks for sharing! The shuriken is very new, just a couple months old so I have some time before dealing with any potential battery concerns.

I've had a stressful week work-wise, and I'm telling my wife I need to buy myself a present to get some positive emotions in my life. Naturally I told her that present needed to be the Helix Floor... we'll see if I get approval, fingers crossed! Haha

[brue58ski]

On 3/29/2023 at 2:18 PM, dolfan058 said:

 

Thanks for sharing! The shuriken is very new, just a couple months old so I have some time before dealing with any potential battery concerns.

I've had a stressful week work-wise, and I'm telling my wife I need to buy myself a present to get some positive emotions in my life. Naturally I told her that present needed to be the Helix Floor... we'll see if I get approval, fingers crossed! Haha

 

The Variax with a Helix is the coolest thing ever. Good luck.

[dolfan058]

On 3/30/2023 at 2:01 PM, brue58ski said:

 

The Variax with a Helix is the coolest thing ever. Good luck.

 

Will be finding out first hand next week. Wife approved, Helix ordered and on its way! "Crisis averted" haha

[ib93]

On 2/17/2022 at 10:11 AM, brue58ski said:

First, you will rarely get to know any of Line 6's plans. It's a long story but I understand why. One reason is just so the competition can't take advantage of that info. But that ain't the only reason. There's a guy you will get to see here and on The Gear Page called Eric Klein also known as Digital Igloo. He is the Chief Product Designer. He has said the Helix definitely has a few more years in it. I take that to mean anywhere from 2 to 5 years. If anything came out soon, I would say it would only be to make it more powerful DSP wise so you can have more blocks. Many of the new models of things are DSP devourers.

 

Regarding Native, I believe it has several settings in it that will limit the DSP it uses to help you create patches. One setting to simulate the Full Helix DSP limit, one to simulate the HX Stomp DSP limit and one that is only limited by your computers power. i don't know where the settings are located as I am not at home. But I would check that out. Another thing Eric mentioned is that they start working on new hardware products about 5 years before they are released. For me the Helix has reached the quality I've been waiting for in modelers and it fills all of my needs. I would like more DSP but other than that, the next Gen would have to have a major sim improvement and I don't know what a major one would be since it's so close now. What about a way to add more DSP to my current Helix? via the USB port perhaps? How would they implement that? I have no idea. It's probably not feasible. But I can dream, can't I?

I think an SD card slot to save your presets, etc would be nice. Then you can work in Native, save your work, and load it into the helix unit. For live it would be great if one of your Line 6 units craps out (or someone throws/spills a drink on it), you can easily replace it with a back up unit/spare and restore everything in a few minutes. I realize you can do this with a laptop but who wants to carry a laptop to a gig and realistically a back up unit never really gets updated with your new settings on a regular basis (who has time for double work). 

[datacommando]

On 5/24/2023 at 2:41 AM, ib93 said:

I think an SD card slot to save your presets, etc would be nice. Then you can work in Native, save your work, and load it into the helix unit.

Huh? You can do this already without the need for an SD card. 
 

Create a preset in Native and drag it into HX Edit and load it into your hardware unit. See page 24 Helix Native Pilot’s Guide.

“… and realistically a back up unit never really gets updated with your new settings on a regular basis (who has time for double work).”

 

Fail safe! - always work on a copy!

[PierM]

Well folks...it looks like there'll be a Helix II in the future.. Probably even a too far future for many of us lol..

 

However, that's a page of a interesting survey they are sending via email (pic stolen from TGP)...

 

 

 

[datacommando]

On 6/14/2023 at 9:27 PM, PierM said:

 

interesting survey they are sending via email (pic stolen from TGP)...

 

Yes, I got that email too. I had a quick look, but didn’t bother to do the survey as I don’t want 25% off things in Marketplace because I don’t use Marketplace. To get 25% discount would entail buying something I don’t want. No not for me.

 

I’m surprised that whoever posted the pic hasn’t also put a red line around the “Removable storage option”. See my previous post above.

 

Considering how much time the Helix spent in development, I won’t hold my breath waiting for HX2.

 

[steve_marsden1]

I guess it’s a reasonable indication that they are not only thinking about what’s next regards Helix but are probably advanced enough on that journey to start involving us lot!  I say that because they’d probably not want to be having to fend off all the clamour that’ll come from this for too long!  Also you’d assume they know the possible sales risk of folk getting wind of that and holding off buying thinking v2 is just around the corner.
 

My guess, given some of the questions regards weight, size, internal power supply, off line storage, remote editor and number of foot-switches, is that they’ll likely be considering a consolidation of the Helix range with likely fewer smaller devices to have to support.

 

My simple take - regardless of whether you’ll use the voucher - take this opportunity to help them shape the future of the product, some of us suckers are likely to be some of the first victims of the GAS epidemic it eventually unleashes, whether we can afford it or not!

[timeasterday]

I did the survey but never received any coupon.