From clean to solo by expression pedal not by snapshot

[claudeu]

I would like to get from a clean sound to a nice bluesy solo sound by expression pedal, not by snapshot. If I only turn up the drive, the sound gets too loud. So I would have to build in a volume reduction at the same time. I have no idea how to do that. Can anyone help?

[silverhead]

Assign both the Drive and Channel Volume parameters to the same expression pedal. Set the Min/Max levels for these parameters in opposite toe/heel directions so that as one level increases the other decreases. I do this in many of my presets. Works well, you just need to experiment with the settings to balance things out properly.

[rd2rk]

Assign the exp pedal to drive and either MASTER or CHANNEL VOLUME.

In the Bypass/Controller Assign pane of HX Edit, reverse the MIN/MAX settings for the MASTER or CHANNEL VOLUME.

Demo Preset attached.

claudeu.hlx

[rd2rk]

Also, you'll likely need to experiment with the limits of the range on both settings.

[claudeu]

Good idea! I guess I have to put drive on Exp 1 and chanel volume reversed on Exp 2?

But where can I adjust the reverse in HX edit?

[codamedia]

On 6/1/2022 at 1:07 PM, claudeu said:

Good idea! I guess I have to put drive on Exp 1 and chanel volume reversed on Exp 2?

 

Nope... put both DRIVE and Channel Volume on the same EXP (EXP1 OR EXP2)

The DRIVE increases as you press the pedal.... the Channel Volume Decreases (accordingly) as you press the pedal. 

 

On 6/1/2022 at 1:07 PM, claudeu said:

But where can I adjust the reverse in HX edit?

 

There is a MIN/MAX setting for each control you assign to an EXP.

For the Channel Volume, you need to set the MAX "Lower" than the "MIN". 

[z3albw1rr]

On 6/1/2022 at 2:07 PM, claudeu said:

Good idea! I guess I have to put drive on Exp 1 and chanel volume reversed on Exp 2?

But where can I adjust the reverse in HX edit?

Look carefully in HX edit - normally when you click on the icon for a pedal model, the screen at the bottom will show the settings for it - drive, tone, level, etc.

 

Like this:

 

https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=Line+6+HX+edit&iax=images&ia=images&iai=https%3A%2F%2Fdt7v1i9vyp3mf.cloudfront.net%2Fstyles%2Fnews_large%2Fs3%2Fimagelibrary%2Fl%2Fline6_hx_effects_03-R0sCDjFBE3n8OUVkBCFEIEOwVQm_TjlH.jpg

 

But there are actually two tabs there that don't really look like tabs!

 

The Left Tab is "Edit" and that's where you see all the parameters for the selected effect like the image above shows.

 

On the right though in that same gray area as Edit is a "Bypass/Controller Assign" tab.

 

So here's what you do:

 

1. Right-click on the Drive parameter under the Edit tab for the effect you have selected. It'll give you a list of options to assign that parameter too - choose EXP1 (or 2, whichever you're going to use). You'll see a little white icon under the left side of the parameter (like where the 0 level is) that looks like an expression pedal.

 

2. Now go down to Level and and do the same - right-click and assign it also the SAME EXP pedal.

 

3. Now click on the tab for "Bypass/Controller Assign" and you'll se those two parameters  you just assigned to EXP1 in a list to the left. Like lets say you were using the Teemah! model - you'll see two things in the list that'll be like "Teemah! - Drive" and "Teemah! - Level". They'll be in the same color as the type of pedal it is so sometimes that makes them easier to see.

 

4. Now click the one on the left for Drive, and the right pane will now show a Min and Max setting. Set Min for what you want the lowest level of drive to be, and max for the most - say, 30% to 70% or whatever.

 

5. Now do the same for the Level - but just set the Max LOWER than the Mini - so the level might be 50% for normal, but when you add more drive, you'll have to lower the Max number (so the Max is where the EXP pedal is toe down, Min is heel down, and since you want the volume to DECREASE when you press down on the pedal, you'll need to set the Max lower than the Min - so that's the "reversed" part you're asking about).

 

Important note 1: I've found you have to move the Expression Pedal back and forth once or else you won't hear the changes.

 

Important note 2: You may want to find a "base level" for the lower drive and volume setting you want first, then remember are mark down those numbers so when you first go to the Bypass/Controller Assignment screen you can put those in for you starting values on BOTH the Min and Max levels. Then you use the Max to increase the drive and move the pedal to hear the result and repeat this to get it right, and then go back and do the same with the Level - just again, you're going to be moving the Max LOWER than the Min to compensate.

 

Important note 3: I've found that not all models react smoothly with this. Some of them increase the drive at a different rate the level decreases, which means that as you sweep the pedal, it may get louder up to about 50% of the pedal's motion, then start to come back down. It's almost as if the Drive gets turned up first then the Level gets turned down in the 2nd half of the pedal's sweep. It's not, but that's what it may sound like - because on some models you may increase the gain 10% but the volume only needs to go down 1% to compensate, but on other models it might need to go down 25% to compensate. It's going to depend on the model and where you're starting with the knob settings and how far they move - which is going to vary with overall volume and saturation levels.

 

What I've found is with some, you can pretty much increase the drive from 10 to 100 and the volume doesn't significantly go up. Those you can get a pretty smooth sweep on and can use any position of the pedal to adjust your amount of drive.

But I really like the Legacy Rat pedal (Classic Overdrive) but it has an extreme volume increase as you increase the drive say from about 10 to 50 percent. I used to actually set up 3 copies of that same model and do one from say 30-40%, then another from 40-50, and another from 50-70 or something like that - because I couldn't get an even sweep from 30 up to 70 and have the volume compensate accurately the whole way down.

 

So don't be surprised if on some models you can't get an even balance of volume compensation across all the gain increase. You may have to just settle for either less/more, or do like I did and have it go up in "stages", or settle for a different drive model if you want a "smooth scroll" from less drive with more volume to more drive with less volume - and this is true of a lot of the multiple parameter assignments in their devices.

 

Important note 4: I also found it's really easy to confuse myself with these screens! Whenever you go to the Bypass/Controller Assign tab, the lower right hand pane shows something like a single parameter and maybe is to bypass or something like that. You have to always pay attention to click the correct parameter to be edited in the left pane first so the two Min Max settings show up for Level, or for Drive, and so on.

 

BTW, let's say you do this, and you find the Tone is too bright at the higher drive level - well, you can add that one too! So you can control the Level, the Drive, AND the Tone and sent the min/max range for each. You can actually assign all of the parameters of a single pedal to all move from min to max values (with max lower than min for anything need to go down instead of up). And you can assign other pedals to this same expression pedal - and it'll effect anything that's on at the time - so you could increase both the Delay Depth and reduce the the Drive on two separate pedals if you want! (you just can't have two different operations on any one parameter for a single pedal model).

[CraigGT]

What's wrong with turning your guitar down?

Go old school :-)

[rd2rk]

On 6/1/2022 at 12:51 PM, CraigGT said:

What's wrong with turning your guitar down?

Go old school :-)

 

Heretic! ;-)

[z3albw1rr]

On 6/1/2022 at 2:51 PM, CraigGT said:

What's wrong with turning your guitar down?

Go old school :-)

Because we "new school" players understand that turning the amount of drive down by lowering your volume LOWERS THE VOLUME too. This is especially true in lower gain settings. This is a mantra I hear repeated all the time "I just use my volume knob as a drive knob". Well, any time I've ever seen anyone who does this at less than ultra high gain settings, their volume is all over the place (though admittedly, it's going to depend on many factors and may almost work in some cases, but not work very well at all in others).

 

It's absolutely fine for genres where this is kind of typical - old school music for example :-)

 

But not everyone wants or needs to do it that way.

 

And here's something very important: even if you set it up to control the volume and drive with a pedal, you can STILL use you volume knob on top of that. So it's actually the best of both the old school and new school approaches.

 

Best

[CraigGT]

On 6/1/2022 at 7:55 PM, rd2rk said:

 

Heretic! ;-)

Yeah :-)

I saw Jeff Beck the other night, he does ok with the knobs on his guitar.

[CraigGT]

On 6/1/2022 at 8:05 PM, z3albw1rr said:

 

It's absolutely fine for genres where this is kind of typical - old school music for example :-)

 

Yes, the OP wanted a bluesy solo :-)

[lawrence_Arps]

On 6/2/2022 at 7:05 AM, z3albw1rr said:

Because we "new school" players understand that turning the amount of drive down by lowering your volume LOWERS THE VOLUME too. This is especially true in lower gain settings. This is a mantra I hear repeated all the time "I just use my volume knob as a drive knob". Well, any time I've ever seen anyone who does this at less than ultra high gain settings, their volume is all over the place (though admittedly, it's going to depend on many factors and may almost work in some cases, but not work very well at all in others).

 

It's absolutely fine for genres where this is kind of typical - old school music for example :-)

 

But not everyone wants or needs to do it that way.

 

And here's something very important: even if you set it up to control the volume and drive with a pedal, you can STILL use you volume knob on top of that. So it's actually the best of both the old school and new school approaches.

 

Best

well said.
I am another who tires of this "Use Your Guitar Volume" mantra.  Its a method that only works in very limited circumstances.  It assumes that cleaner sounds should be quieter. It assumes that you want less compression as well as less drive....lets not even start on tone.
Old school players did this because they had no choice.
The electric players of 50 - 30 years ago were pushing at the limits of technology.  They were brave trailblazers using the latest technology and making do with limited capability from their equipment.  If it so happens that your entire performance repertoire is based on trying to faithfully reproduce the music and tones from a couple of generations back then fine go ahead - its a free world after all - but dont think that its a viable solution for more modern expectations.

[rd2rk]

On 6/1/2022 at 5:58 PM, lawrence_Arps said:

I am another who tires of this "Use Your Guitar Volume" mantra.  Its a method that only works in very limited circumstances.

 

And one of those circumstances, the most common and traditional of those circumstances, is BLUES.

Which is EXACTLY what OP asked for!

 

On 6/1/2022 at 10:19 AM, claudeu said:

I would like to get from a clean sound to a nice bluesy solo sound

 

He didn't ASK for "more modern expectations"!

 

Now y'all can take your "modern" agenda and GET OFF MY LAWN! ;-)

[soundog]

I like the idea of "clean to solo by expression pedal". I think it could be flexible, fun and cool. I might experiment with it some rainy day...

[z3albw1rr]

On 6/1/2022 at 8:25 PM, rd2rk said:

 

And one of those circumstances, the most common and traditional of those circumstances, is BLUES.

Which is EXACTLY what OP asked for!

What they asked for was "Blues-y" not Blues specifically ;-) And you can play Bluesy with any amount of gain - it's how you play it, not what sound you play it with! And you can still do it by assigning parameters to an EXP, and STILL do it with your volume knob! So the modern approach gives you 2 ways to do it, rather than 1. Just like you can Robert Cray that bad boy up with the cleanest tone known to man!

 

How's them clouds for yelling at? :-D

 

 

[z3albw1rr]

On 6/2/2022 at 12:08 AM, soundog said:

I like the idea of "clean to solo by expression pedal". I think it could be flexible, fun and cool. I might experiment with it some rainy day...

Try it now - it's not too hard to set up and is really flexible.

 

As I was telling the OP though, depending on the model, you may not be able to keep the volume level while having the saturation go up, or even any kind of upward slope such that as your pedal travels it makes a "linear" (not in terms of taper, but just in terms of sound) increase.

 

But dialing up the drive with your expression pedal behaves not unlike rolling up your guitar volume so if you want it to get louder as it gets more drive for solos, that'll work.

 

I actually have one set up where I have a rhythm crunch tone, and then I put more saturation on it for leads, and it turned out to be just the right amount without having to mess with the volume. But you could do more drive and more volume too.

 

 

[rd2rk]

On 6/1/2022 at 11:04 PM, z3albw1rr said:

What they asked for was "Blues-y" not Blues specifically ;-) And you can play Bluesy with any amount of gain - it's how you play it, not what sound you play it with! And you can still do it by assigning parameters to an EXP, and STILL do it with your volume knob! So the modern approach gives you 2 ways to do it, rather than 1. Just like you can Robert Cray that bad boy up with the cleanest tone known to man!

 

How's them clouds for yelling at? :-D

 

You're splitting hairs.

You know exactly what OP asked for.

Remember that it was me who provided a demo preset to show OP the "modern" way.

Which, when talking "bluesy", is a lot more work than just turning down the volume pot like blues artists have been doing forever.

That was the point @CraigGTwas making.

 

Also, I made a joke related to defending traditional methods, and you turned it into a mean-spirited ageist dig.

Maybe you didn't mean it that way, but that's the way it comes across.

 

[claudeu]

Thank you very much, that is very helpful! Now I still have the question, how can I add a scream 808, for example, in this constellation? I can't use it for the clean sound. It would have to be switched on, and that might not be possible without steps. Or can you recommend an amp model with the best range between clean and bluesy distortion?  Exclusively via the gain of the amp.

[lou-kash]

I was experimenting with this expression pedal concept for a while. It works but there's a downside: adding gain while removing volume at the same time doesn't necessarily result in a linear change. You may experience a volume drop somewhere in the middle, depending on what kind of amp you're using and which parameters you're changing with the pedal. To me that didn't sound very natural and pleasant.

 

So eventually I went back to a simple footswitch that changes a few parameters on the compressor in front of the amp (kinda simulating the "old school" volume knob method which I never was very comfortable with) and a few parameters on the amp block.

[lou-kash]

On 6/2/2022 at 9:04 AM, claudeu said:

how can I add a scream 808, for example, in this constellation?

 

You can. I don't remember the exact setup off the top of my head, but it's the same procedure like auto-enabling a Wah block by moving the expression pedal over a certain value. There are tutorials all over Teh Intervebz.

 

On 6/2/2022 at 9:04 AM, claudeu said:

can you recommend an amp model with the best range between clean and bluesy distortion?

 

I have a bunch of favorites for bluesy kind of sound, but it also depends on what guitar you're using. I play Les Paul, so the standard humbucker signal is pretty hot (I have a 6-way switch though to switch between parallel and serial). 

US Small Tweed, Mandarin 80, and the new Ventoux.

[lou-kash]

Note that when adding gain to the signal to make it overdriven, it's usually a good idea to reduce the bass at the same time. Else it may sound too muddy.

[claudeu]

Yeah, the Ventoux works fine with my Tele! Thanks!

[z3albw1rr]

On 6/2/2022 at 1:38 AM, rd2rk said:

 

You're splitting hairs.

You know exactly what OP asked for.

Remember that it was me who provided a demo preset to show OP the "modern" way.

Which, when talking "bluesy", is a lot more work than just turning down the volume pot like blues artists have been doing forever.

That was the point @CraigGTwas making.

 

Also, I made a joke related to defending traditional methods, and you turned it into a mean-spirited ageist dig.

Maybe you didn't mean it that way, but that's the way it comes across.

 

It wasn't intended to be mean-spririted at all, rather more of a camaraderie  - that's why the "get off my lawn" was met with "yelling at clouds".

 

Just trying to have some fun with you. Sorry if that wasn't clear. Such are the dangers of text-based communications, even with smileys and emojis.

[rd2rk]

On 6/2/2022 at 11:29 AM, z3albw1rr said:

It wasn't intended to be mean-spririted at all, rather more of a camaraderie  - that's why the "get off my lawn" was met with "yelling at clouds".

 

Just trying to have some fun with you. Sorry if that wasn't clear. Such are the dangers of text-based communications, even with smileys and emojis.

 

Gotcha, no worries. I might've been a bit cranky last night.

[claudeu]

Are there some more tipps for my question:

How can I smoothly add a Scream 808 via an expression paddle to go from a clean to a lead sound?

For the lead sound it would have to be switched on, and that might not be possible smoothly by a pedal I guess. 

 

[lou-kash]

On 6/3/2022 at 9:56 AM, claudeu said:

How can I smoothly add a Scream 808 via an expression paddle to go from a clean to a lead sound?

For the lead sound it would have to be switched on, and that might not be possible smoothly by a pedal I guess. 

 

Move it to Path B, keep it always on and blend it in smoothly via the Split A/B "half-block" also assigned to the expression pedal.
Note that you should also move the Mixer "half-block" right behind the Scream, otherewise you would possibly bypass your other blocks.

[lou-kash]

In other words, there are many possibilities. The major limit is just how many parameters you can assign to be controlled by the expression pedal. I vaguely recall it's 8.