JTV59 JTV69 v2.1 SEMI-5 Comparison

[edstar1960]

So does a variax guitar model sound exactly the same on a different model JTV - have a listen and decide for yourself.

 

JTV59 and JTV69 both at fw 2.1 as supplied (not tweaked in Workbench HD) and using SEMI position 5.

Both played via VDI into same HD500 patch and recorded in Sonar X3 without any post production.

Same chord sequence.

 

Are these samples identical? If not - what differences can be heard? 

And can you tell which sample is the JTV59 and which is the JTV69?

 

Recording can be found here:  https://soundcloud.com/eddie-wicker/jtv-59-69-semi-compare

[fr0sty]

I assume the 69 is the second?  In any case, it sounds a hair brighter to me than the first one.  

[snhirsch]

I'm thinking the first one is the 69.  There's something about the longer scale that prevents my ear from "buying" emulation of a shorter-scale instrument.  But, I may have just disproved this theory :-)

[edstar1960]

It's interesting that others can indeed hear a slight difference.  I will reveal the correct order once a few more people have had a listen ...

[malnack]

I have a 59P. I believe the first clip is the 59.

[DarrellM5]

Sound identical to me.

[rmwpsych]

First sample sounds warmer, slightly rounder (I prefer it). Second one is brighter less "round". My guess:

 

clip 1 is the JTV59 

clip 2 JTV 69

[clay-man]

Pretty identical to me. Not enough difference for me to care at all, and that's what I like. I'd want their modeling guitars to sound the same between eachother, else that means the modeling is off on one of them.

[edstar1960]

Thanks for the responses everyone.

 

Some people are hearing what I heard and what prompted me to post the clips. When recorded directly like this they sound almost identical, in fact the recordings are so close that a casual listen through PC speakers at normal to low volume or even on headphones at low volume, you probably won't notice any difference.  Certainly if they were in a band mix you would not spot any difference. When I played them via L6 link through my L2M there was a difference but I did wonder because I was playing a physically different guitar that maybe my brain was just telling me they must sound different which is why I decided to try a blind test to see if there was anything noticeable that everyone else could pick up on.

 

I may attempt to record that L2m sound to see if the difference is still more noticeable once recorded.

 

Meanwhile, I will let this thread run a little longer so some more members can comment before I reveal which order the guitars were played on the sample.

 

Thanks again.

[Rewolf48]

JTV modelling is based around processing the pickup signal using techniques like convolution (e.g. to model body resonance).  

 

But you still have that original signal driving it, and while the Piezo pickups while positioned to get the most isolated signal from the strings possible will inevitably still get something of the body and bridge that will leak through to the final signal.

 

That apparently is why Line 6 do not sell Variax Guts as a kit - because the variation on the inputs would give so much variation in the modelled output and then they would have to support all of the "my custom G9201 Variax doesn't sound like a Strat!!!" complaints (Gretch Resonator).

[edstar1960]

Rewolf48 - I thought they would sound different based on the fact that they are physically very different guitars, however, I thought the differences would be so subtle that I would not be able to tell, and I think in a band mix or in a recording mix that is the case.  I found it interesting that I could tell there was a difference and just wanted to re-assure myself that I wasn't imagining it by running a blind test on the forum just to see whether other people could hear the same differences.

[Leftzilla]

There are subtle differences in how modeling on guitar sounds different than another model.  I have a JTV59 and a 89F and I my band swears that the 89F sound "better" than the 59.  However I think that is shape BIAS because when I recorded both guitars doing the same thing the opinions were split.  I notice some subtle differences that are definitely due to the different body's and necks but they are just that Subtle.  Also there are different piezos between the two

[clay-man]

JTV modelling is based around processing the pickup signal using techniques like convolution (e.g. to model body resonance).  

 

But you still have that original signal driving it, and while the Piezo pickups while positioned to get the most isolated signal from the strings possible will inevitably still get something of the body and bridge that will leak through to the final signal.

 

That apparently is why Line 6 do not sell Variax Guts as a kit - because the variation on the inputs would give so much variation in the modelled output and then they would have to support all of the "my custom G9201 Variax doesn't sound like a Strat!!!" complaints (Gretch Resonator).

 

I'm not sure how they isolated getting the convolutions between each part of the guitar (bodies, pickups, electronics) but I'm sure it's very accurate.

 

I've heard Line 6 calibrates each model so they sound identical to one another in modeling. 

[edstar1960]

I'm thinking the first one is the 69.  There's something about the longer scale that prevents my ear from "buying" emulation of a shorter-scale instrument.  But, I may have just disproved this theory :-)

 

Correct!  The first clip is the JTV69 and the second is the JTV59.   Well done! I think you were the only one who gave the correct order,

[edstar1960]

First sample sounds warmer, slightly rounder (I prefer it). Second one is brighter less "round". My guess:

 

clip 1 is the JTV59 

clip 2 JTV 69

 

These are my thoughts too in terms of how I think they sound, however, it is in fact the JTV69 first and the JTV59 second.    I think it's the maple cap on the JTV59 that adds that extra brightness - although before the comparison I thought that the JTV69 would sound slightly brighter based on it's physical characteristics.

[radatats]

at first i though I heard slight differences but after extensive bouncing back and forth between the two clips they are pretty much identical.  Any slight differences are probably due to ever so slight playing differences and the subconcious desire to notice something, anything different just knowing they came from two different guitars...

 

for me anyways...

[jandrio]

I think it's the maple cap on the JTV59 that adds that extra brightness...

i thought maple fingerboard was only fitted on the 69sss black (?)

 

quoting from 59 specs:

Neck: Set mahogany neck with rosewood fingerboard and dot inlays (Tyler '59 neck shape)

[snhirsch]

To my ears, there's a hint of Strat-like "nasal-ness" to the first sample.  I was reasonably sure the first clip was a 69 before I even heard the second one.  I've always attributed this to the longer scale length. 

[edstar1960]

i thought maple fingerboard was only fitted on the 69sss black (?)

 

quoting from 59 specs:

 

Hi jandrio - by maple cap I am referring to the flamed maple top on the mahogany body of the JTV59 - I am not referring to the fingerboard.   The fingerboard on both my JTV69 and JTV59 are rosewood.

[edstar1960]

To my ears, there's a hint of Strat-like "nasal-ness" to the first sample.  I was reasonably sure the first clip was a 69 before I even heard the second one.  I've always attributed this to the longer scale length. 

 

Your ears are very good!

[edstar1960]

at first i though I heard slight differences but after extensive bouncing back and forth between the two clips they are pretty much identical.  Any slight differences are probably due to ever so slight playing differences and the subconcious desire to notice something, anything different just knowing they came from two different guitars...

 

for me anyways...

 

You are right - they are pretty much identical - the JTV59 (second clip) is just a little brighter than the JTV69 (first clip).  I notice it more when I compare them at volume through my L2m.  I don't think anyone would be able to hear a difference in a mix - you have to really listen carefully to notice it - but it is barely noticable

[snhirsch]

Your ears are very good!

 

Amazing after 40 years of rock playing...  Even more so after an unfortunate choice of antibiotic by my physician left me with moderate midrange hearing loss and permanent tinnitus!  Nice to know these ears have some life left :-)