DunedinDragon

Having served as the music director in a church band for almost 10 years now, here's a key list of items to keep in mind for effective performances. 1. Effective praise music is all about dynamics. That's the key to connecting with the audience and inspiring them and this starts with selecting the right music that has dynamic range. 2. A praise band often has more in common with an orchestra or a show band than it does a traditional club band. All instruments don't need to play all the time. Instruments come in and out as needed and is key to building dynamics. 3. If possible incorporate variety into your song selections. Nothing gets more boring than 15 minutes of the same kind of music. Pacing is critical. Start with something with some punch to it then move on to more message based and less lively though provoking material. 4. Copy as best as you can the source material. This is copying not only the arrangements, intros and outros, but also the specific sound of each instrument in a source song. This is where you need to use your ears and get your EQ correctly set properly for each instrument. Don't expect the sound crew to do this for you. 5. ALL instruments need to lay back to allow space for vocals. This is more true on verses and bridges, and less true on choruses when you need more push and dynamics. This is usually more technique than it is specific reduction or addition of volume. In other words, palm muting or lighter strumming pressure or strumming position (neck strumming versus bridge strumming), or use of effect pedals for guitars and bass, and less key pressure on keyboards. 6. Most songs have an identifiable musical theme passage (lead line or keyboard line) that's established at the very start of the song and is used throughout. This is typically done by one instrument and all other instruments need to lay back when that theme is present. I hope these ideas help.

This doesn't have anything to do with your error, but you need to read the update notes and follow the directions for updating precisely. You don't start by downloading the Helix updater. You start by downloading and running the appropriate version of HX Edit. That will download all the necessary components and walk you through the process. Otherwise all bets are off as to whether you'll have a successful upgrade.

Honestly it's very hard to make recommendations without knowing what style of church music you're playing. Most of the more modern praise style songs are very formulaic and often are lead by a lead guitar intro theme and the guitar lays back with palm muting during most of the verses just adding some slight fills between vocal phrases, and then becomes heavier with more push during the chorus. Then the bridge will have it's own feel mostly made up of slower strummed techniques or arpeggios. If everyone is doing their jobs correctly and staying out of each others way EQ is seldom if ever an issue. If you're doing more classic gospel that's a whole different set of techniques and the same with more of the rock based christian music. My advice to anyone whether they're playing in a church band or a conventional band is to let the original recording be your guide. You really don't need to invent much and whatever you might invent is not likely to be better than what the original producer of the song came up with, so just follow his lead.

I think you have to let the song determine things like that rather than pre-determining them. I have used some marshall amp models in praise songs, but more for songs that need a big push in dynamics in which case I'll have a cleaner boutique amp like the Archetype Clean through most of the song and then when the bigger buildup happens, normally in a chorus, I'll switch over to the Marshall. But Marshalls aren't really known for their sparkling cleans which is what you need through most of the song. Probably the best thing you can do for yourself is get rid of the single amp for all performances paradigm and open yourself up to "what does THIS song need" and make your decisions based on that. This is where the Helix REALLY shines.

You're bypassing the preamp but your output is still going through the Roland JC cabinet and speakers which adds it's own tonal colorations. Using the Helix cab or IRs add their own tonal influence as will the mic selection and placements used on those cabs and IRs. So you can see how you can quickly begin to build up quite a lot of tonal mush if you're not careful. This is the reason why the general approach is to use cabinets/IRs with FRFR speakers and use the native speakers when going through an amp and cabinet.

This decision is more about how you envision your rig working. Bear in mind if you use the Roland you won't be using Helix cab/IR blocks and you're likely going to be mic'ing the cabinet, in which case what you hear on stage will not be what the audience hears. If you want a more accurate stage representation of the sound the audience is hearing then go with a FRFR speaker and use the Helix cabs/IRs.

Most songs in church bands tend to be keyboard/pad heavy. Much of the guitar work tends to be in the intros and bridges. It's really less about EQ and more about everybody working to make space for all the different instruments. Overplaying is the worst thing you can do and is the most common error in church bands because it does nothing but interfere with the vocals. Make sure your palm muting technique is good as that's generally what's used a lot by guitar players in that style of music and really helps to stick out fill nicely when surrounded by keyboards. Just listen closely to the YouTube videos to catch on to the tones and the techniques being used. That being said, if you're doing mostly current P&W songs, you're going to need a relatively clean sound with a slight touch of crunch to it and a fair amount of compression to give it enough body to exist well with the keyboards for most songs There's absolutely nothing you can do in Global EQ that you can't do with a parametric EQ within your patch so use Global EQ for what it's meant for which is to make corrections for the room. I've been playing live with my Helix every weekend for over 4 years now and have yet to find a need to use Global EQ. If you need OD (which tends to be rare in that style of music) stick with things like the Minotaur or Teemah to give you the boost and sustain without too much dirt. The Vox amps along with the Archetype Clean, HiWatt, and Soldano clean tend to be very useful amps for most modern P&W music and for more ballad type songs the clarity of the Jazz Rivet. As far as cabinets, the 2x12 blue bell 2 x 12 silver bell are probably the most prominent speakers in that style of music as well as the 4x12 HiWatt Fane. If you're using Helix stock cabs use a dual cab block so you can use a combination of mics to get a nice round sound. I prefer a combination of MD421 dynamic and R121 ribbon.

First, make sure you right click on HX Edit and select 'Run as Administrator' to see if that fixes it. If not you may have some inconsistencies in you underlying files so there is a process you can go through to fix that which is outlined in the following video.

Whether you want an FRFR or not, you're going to have one once you send your signal to the FOH whether that's a mic'd real cabinet, or a Helix cab or IR as all of those speakers are FRFR. What most people in your situation do is send a separate output path using cabs/IR via XLR to the FOH and one without cabs/IR to the real cabinet.

Heck, I'd even say if you hear it in the studio it's entirely likely you won't hear it live given the position of the audience that don't favor equal hearing of both stereo channels, and lousy acoustics creating acoustic reflections of most places you're likely to play.

I pretty much exclusively use IRs in all of my presets, mostly due to convenience. Like yourself I play a wide range of genres and styles. I depend on three vendors which are Ownhammer, Celestion and Redwirez, each for different reasons which I'll get into in a moment. The thing is, I can get pretty much the same effect I get from IRs using stock cabinets, it just takes longer to implement due to all the twiddling around with them. Since I have well over 200 presets, that's a lot of twiddling. So it's much easier for me to simply select an IR and drop it into a preset and be done with it. It's also much easier to audition them to see what best fits the preset. Although there are some differences in the three IR vendors, I have to say that once you determine what type of setup (mic, mic combinations and mic placements) tends to work best for you, the difference between vendors is fairly minimal. I only have about 70 IRs actually loaded which I choose from. The Ownhammer IRs tend to have the widest and most exotic selection of mic setups such as the Massively Multi Mic Collections which can use up to six mics and mic positions. The Celestions tend to be very accurate and have a bit more in the way of available mics. Redwirez are useful in that they have the widest most exotic collection of speaker cabinets such as the HiWatt Fanes or Uberkabs which can easily be mixed together using their MixIR tool if you purchase their Big Box collection to create your own customized setup.

And THIS is why the world needs engineers....

What's often not mentioned or recognized that much is that due to the advances in live performance gear, these techniques have become just as prevalent in live concert performances as they have been in traditional studio performances. You don't have to watch very many live performance videos of popular bands these days to notice the production polish of the music. The bigger bands now travel with a considerable backstage technical and sound crew in order to be able to provide a live performance that easily equals the sound of their studio release. There's no better example of this than the videos from Jeff Lynne's ELO tour captured in the video documentary 'Wembley of Bust'.

To expound a bit on what's been said, guitar amps are special purpose devices whereas FRFR speakers are general precision devices. The fact is most people have never heard an amp in the room because the amp has been mic'd either for recording purposes or live performance purposes. Regardless of what wall of amps one might see in a concert, that's not what the audience hears. They hear the mic'd version of those amps that been processed through a mixer and fed to them via FRFR speakers...not the amp in the room sound. Which is actually a good thing. If they were listening to the amp in the room with no mic'ing the sound would vary based on where they were relative to the speaker cabinet. If they're right in front of the amp and centered on the cap the sound will be pretty harsh. If they're 40 degrees off center from the cap of the speaker, the sound will be darker and more muffled. That's the natural behavior of simple cabinets which FRFR, through engineering, overcomes. Most FRFR speakers will sound the same across an axis of around 140 degrees or more in their vertical/upright position because that's what they're designed to do in order to give a wide audience the same sound. This is why you see the cabinets/IRs/Mic and mic positions as a significant aspect of the modeling signal chain. Although some cuts are sometimes necessary because of the full flat range, generally in most cases of live performance and studio work the engineers have spent a lot of time figuring out what type of mics, combinations of mics and placements of mics are necessary to produce a good and even approximation of the sound you get from an amp, without the limitations of an amp cabinet. Helix provides these same facilities so you can accomplish the same things that are done in studios and live concert performances in order to achieve the same results. The benefit being that, with a good FRFR system positioned correctly on stage, or using IEMs you will hear very nearly the exact thing your audience is hearing. In my experience this makes it easier to achieve a good stage blend with the band as well as an equally good or better blend for the FOH. In short from my experience the benefit of FRFR is simply being able to achieve a studio quality sound in a live performance, which is something I've wanted to be able to do economically for 50 years. The value being the precision, clarity and articulation you hear through a good stereo system when you play a professionally produced recording even in a live environment. It's not just the modeling that's allowed us to achieve these things, it's the advances in live performance DSP enabled speakers over the last 15 years or so in a price range that's achievable for the average guy. It's not quite the plug in and play scenario of the traditional amp, but in my opinion it's worth the effort to be able to achieve the performance quality required nowadays in almost all big concert level performances, even if you're playing at the local neighborhood bar. Not so much for my benefit, but for the benefit of the audience.

I have had to setup some patches using my DT770 headphones on occasion and I firmly agree with cruisinon2. I found it doable, but it inevitably needed some correction once I connected to a legit FOH setup. The reason being that headphones, or even studio monitors, are engineered to work so differently from common FRFR style speakers that it's really kind of impossible to match the characteristics exactly. That being said my experience in that regard is somewhat limited so I suppose it would be possible to learn how to make the corrections accurately with headphones if you had to do it all the time.

I don't really have a dog in this fight since I always set my signal level based on my XLR connection to a QSC TM-30 mixer. But seeing how they implemented the feature and it's apparent consistency with my TM-30 it makes me wonder if they're getting their measurements after the D/A conversion which would preclude measuring within the signal chain.

I'll just throw in a bit from my experience. After having my Helix Floor for about a year I decided I would get a second unit as a backup which I could use in my studio and initially thought I'd save a few bucks and get the LT. What changed my mind to get another Helix Floor had nothing to do with any of the flashy stuff, it came down to all the things you mentioned such as the extra inputs, mic input, and headphone volume. At the time my studio setup consisted of a separate audio interface and a small mixer. As I studied the problem it became clear to me that the Helix Floor was an adequate replacement for both of those units and would simplify my recording process immensely. The Helix Floor is now the center of operations for my studio. With the extra inputs I can have my electric guitar, my acoustic guitar, my bass guitar, my microphone and my keyboard all plugged in at one time. For recording I have a preset for each of those instruments so to capture a track I simply select the appropriate preset, arm the track, and I'm ready to go. Maybe the most valuable thing has been the headphone volume knob as that allows me to easily balance my playback with whatever I'm recording at the time since, other than vocals, I playback everything through my studio monitors while I record. What used to be a fairly complex workflow and setup is now nothing more than selecting the proper preset, adjusting the volume between playback and recording, arm the track and start recording. That's easily cut my recording time in half. I don't mean to confuse your decision, but I thought it might be something you might want to consider.

Correct. But from what I've seen it seems to be consistent with external signal level meters, but no numeric reference.

I really hate when publications categorize the Helix as a multi-effects pedal. The truth is Helix is a Modeler which means it's more than effects. It provides functional models of not only effects, but amps, cabinets, mics for those cabinets along with a wide range of different effect units as well as the means to connect it to the real world in a variety of ways whether that be for performing live or working in a studio. So you'd consider it a one stop shop for most every need you might have. To get a feel for everything that's in something like the Helix Floor or Helix LT look through the following link for the amps and effects it has to offer. https://helixhelp.com/ What that would mean in your world is you have everything you would need for connecting to your CUBASE to record. You wouldn't need a separate audio interface for your computer because the Helix provides that as well as all the hookups for studio monitors, headphones, vocal mic, as well as other instruments. For example I have two Helix units. One is used for playing live with my band, the other serves as a backup to the first one but is connected in my studio to my main computer and DAW. Aside from plugging my guitar into it, it also has my vocal mic, keyboard, bass guitar, and sometimes an electric drum kit all plugged into it simultaneously. When I record I choose the correct preset for the instrument I plan to record, arm the track, press record and play. I repeat the process for capturing the recording of all other instruments all literally done through a single USB connection to the computer and two connections to my studio monitors without leaving my chair to change things. Now that's the marketing description, but what Spikey is referring to is the behind the scenes work that you have to do to prepare the Helix to do what you want. In the real world you have to wire up your effects and amps, in the Helix world you define the type of amp and how you want it setup, the cabinets, mics for the cabinets, and the effects and their placement before or after the amp just like you would in physical studio and save it as a Preset to be recalled any time you need it. That's the complexity Spikey is referring to because the options and knowledge required to do that can be daunting to some people. If, however, you want to grow your technical skills for recording or live playing, the Helix can be a great environment for learning the technical ins and outs of different setups with various amps and effects. But how effective you are with the Helix is based on your understanding of the pros and cons of different amp, what a parametric EQ does, or how to dial in a compressor, the style and type of different reverbs and delays, or how to choose what kind of microphones and where to place them on a cabinet, and so forth. If you enjoy learning how to do those things you'll enjoy and greatly benefit from the Helix. If you just want to plug in and start playing, maybe not so much.

I've used the Aux input for the Takamine when I would have a single a preset that combines a signal chain for electric and one for acoustic. I don't see why a return wouldn't work as long as it's on a separate signal chain from the electric. It won't be as robust as the guitar input so you might need to boost it a bit, but it should be okay. It just seems to me to be the easiest way to keep the two signal chains separated by defining one input block as electric guitar and one as Aux. I haven't done this in a long time since I was doing it to allow one of the other guys in the group to play acoustic while I played electric on certain songs, but there were so many limitations compared to just running the acoustic straight to the mixing board via a DI box that's what I do now when it's needed and just send the acoustic signal back to the stage via the stage monitors.

I personally don't see the value in an acoustic amp unless it's just for goofing around at home or maybe in a VERY intimate setting with just a few people. You'll get greater accuracy and definition not to mention scalability with just the Helix into any FRFR speaker or PA. I do this all the time in live shows with a Takamine acoustic and an acoustic guitar preset I got from Jason Sadites YouTube channel on how to dial in an acoustic guitar through the Helix. As far as the Voicelive 2 you should be able to simply run a send out of the Helix into the Voicelive to set the harmonies. There's no reason to get a return from the Voicelive to the Helix. If it were me I'd be sending my vocals (going through the Voicelive unit) and my Helix guitar output signals into separate mixer channels on a PA as that's the easiest and simplest way to get a good clean mix between guitar and vocals.

What part of keep it simple is confusing to you? You should be able to get a decent sound without all these hardware permutations. You're getting distracted from the core idea, which is: FIRST LEARN HOW TO MASTER THE HELIX. A simple guitar input and headphone output is all you need. If you're not getting the sound you want check back here about what's missing and maybe we can direct you to things to try in your signal chain. You're worrying about all the hardware on the outside of the Helix when you need to be concentrating on dialing in the Helix and learning how to master it. No matter what hardware you attach to the Helix, none will sound right until you know how to adjust the blocks in your signal chain to give you the sound you want. Start there.

I think you just need to start simply. Plug your guitar into the 1/4 inch stangard guitar input of the Helix and listen via your headphones. If your pickups are too hot you can change the impedance in your global settings if necessary. That's not the optimal setup but it's a basic setup that should get you started. As mentioned in the attached discussion above, the Spider amps don't have a loop input which allows you to go directly to the power amp of the Spider amp, and a basic clean power amp and speaker setup is all you need for the Helix. But you can get by with your headphones for now even though they're not the most popular for the Helix, they should work. Getting everything working with the basics and then you can branch out as you get the feel for how signal chains work and how to control them. Then you can make some decisions about what you want for your final configuration. You may even decide to not have any amp and just go direct to the PA and use your stage monitors which is a perfectly fine configuration.

I believe those are combined 1/4 and XLR inputs on the back.

Actually I'm encouraged to hear Cerwin Vega is producing some recognizably good products again. They were at the very top end of gear back in my younger days and fell from grace in the 70's. It would be nice to see them establish that reputation again.