MartinDorr

Very interesting and now that I read your experience and the article I'd be interested in what power amp you are using

I have not used this but I believe you connect Midi from Helix to DT25 and the use a template tone as a start to drive Midi signals to the DT for channel switching as you select the tone config added to the template. sorry, do not know more, but I have seen the template before and posts on the Helix forum describing some details. probably worth searching and then asking about what troubles you run into when trying.

L6 could release a free unlicensed (edit and playback disabled) native version available that can only be used to view tones and patches. They could go 1 step further and make a low-cost version that just supports tone modelling w/o edit (like a sample player does not support sample generation and change). There are lots of options now that they have the basic pieces.

Whenever you change the amp input levels (clean gain +/-) or signal frequency distribution (the unamped signal tone) or Drive setting (the amps signal transfer function operating range) assuming you do not change the tone stack, you will change the amp output tone and levels. The output level can be changed via Channel Volume to correct for volume gain/drop. The finest control is between 5.0 and 10.0 spanning 12 dB range, i.e., you get 0.24 dB per 0.1 change. With a given input signal tone, the combination of input signal levels and amp Drive selects the usable range of the amp transfer function. On at least one amp (Bassman normal) you can get THE SAME tone and loudness with various combinations of clean input level, drive, and channel volume adjustments. If you turn Drive up, you can reduce input levels (clean gain stage) untill you match the previous tone and adjust lchannel volume to match previous levels. Its messy and time consuming if you want to get close, but it seems to work everytime I tried. As soon as you add anything in front that changes the harmonic content of the input signal (even though the apparent signal loudness or Peak levels are the same), the amp output tone will change (possibly just subtly), and if your drive or boost pedal also adds gain, the amps transfer function working range will shift as well (adding more tone changes). For this reason, noone can get exactly the same tone/patch as someone else, unless he plays with the same guitar, the same guitar settings, strings, ..., the input method, the same backend sound system, the same stroke strength, pick, and all other articulation subtleties.

I doubt that any auto-loudness control is useful or practical for a musician. That said, some loudness or even just an RMS/Peak level measurement probe attachable on any block output would be great.

Line 6 was on a steady average ~4 month development/release cycle for Helix SW before they spent more time to get Native right. Nothing wrong with that, but I am guessing that they want a FW/SW update for Helix for NAMM and unless they delay another release till then or do a very quick turn around for a 2.4 for NAAM at the end of Jan 2017, 2.3 should happen pretty soon.

Thanks for everyone's feedback. A bit disappointed that there are not more responses, but given that all the ones that did respond use or at least consider using 'Normal' when selecting an amp I am tempted to assume that the overwhelming majority of users do not. I am just starting to realize how much signal level sensitivity difference exists between the various 'Normal' and 'Bright/Vibrato" channels. On real amps this could get in the way, but on Helix a simple Gain block in front or after is all it takes to adjust for that, and like phil_m said, the functional differences (e.g., reverb) between channels on the real amp are not a factor on Helix. As I am basically a bloody beginner (no significant real amp experience) I am just looking for clues on how to productively limit the huge range of options on Helix when on the hunt for sweet spots on the different amp models. Again, thanks for your feedback and the many other contributions you guys make on this forum.

It was not by the end of September ;-) But I'd guess soon because otherwise they have to do a quicky (less than 3 month cycle) before NAMM ...

Just curious about how many of you use the 'Normal' channel of several Amp models and any feedback you can offer why, how, and for what purpose.

Now I am curious how close I got guessing end of September ... That said, I am happy waiting however long it takes to get a solid version! A loudness/RMS/Peak meter as an effect would be a useful tool and would not consume DSP cycles once tone design is done ;-)

I got a sense of that when looking at your '.'-release dates - they started to be about 4 months apart late last year. You got delayed by extra effort to get Native right (time well spent, I think), i.e., no 2.3 around end of July. If I'd have to guess I'd say you're aiming for a 2.3 possibly by or before end of September and a follow on to be ready to demo or release for January 2018 If your past release dates are not just a coincidence and you keep it up, 3.0 would fall into early/mid 2019. I have to say I like your teasers and real background info (and the guts to let us know). Thanks

Thought I had a good handle on the HD500 model of the Studio Compressor, but the Helix one puzzles me. What I found so far is this: Needed a Gain value of ~3.7 to match output to input level as long compression is not engaged (that's fine). The PeakReduction dial shifts the start of compression up and down the input signal level scale, e.g., a value of 10.0 starts compression at -33dB peak and at a value smaller than 2.4 prevents any compression unless you peaks above 0 dBFS (that seems like a strange scale range considering that >25% of the parameter values are not usable). If you are curious about the mapping - a change of ~0.23 on the PeakReduction dial shifts the start of compression by 1dB, e.g., a value of 10-3*0.23=9.7 makes the start of compression kick in for peak signals above 33-3*1=30dB So far no biggies, but when I checked for compression of peak signals I only get ~1.3:1 compression essentially constant across the whole range no matter whether I use a Type selection of Compress or Limit, i.e., I do not find any limiting function at all. I also expected that the compression rate would be variable dependent on the setting of PeakReduction and type set to Limit or Compress and at least reach 4:1 (all features described in the L-2A manual). There is also no slow start of compression - it goes into full effect on the first dB above the threshold set by PeakReduction. Emphasis settings seems to do hardly anything if you run your guitar right into the LA-2A model (for clean tones - have not tried anything else yet), but that kind a makes sense because there is not a lot of activity in 15KHz band coming from an electric guitar. Anybody out there having more luck or found the magic setting to get different compression rates or a limiting effect? PS: I measured using a re-amped track and run it through 2 gain stages to lollipop the levels up and down over a 34dB range before driving the LA-2Aand measure the output with Logic's level analyzer.

Same here. Seems like the tone/preset contains only global, input/output, and path data - but no amps or effects. No rush. I waited much longer for my Helix ... ;-)

Yes, I just used Logic and its loudness meter to get TruePeak, RMS, and integrated loudness meter values. The reamped track went straight through a mono gain stage into the amp model. I checked out the gain stage by itself and it is not coloring the tone as far as I can tell from listening and meter values, and right on the spot when comparing dialed in gain values and actual gain change.

Thanks for posting your tone ... will check it out over the next couple days and let you know Not sure whether its relevant for you in retrospect, but after measuring the Stone Age's response to a reamped small single line / double stop test track, I found that with the default tone stack setting the transfer curve (how the amp model translates input (true peak, RMS, and loudness) to an output signal) is essentially constant as long as the true peak of the input signal does not exceed -20dBFS! That's quite low, I think. For example, when I did the same thing on my HD500 I got this behavior for a peaks not exceeding -12dBFS. While these numbers don't say much about the amp tone beauty, I think its worth mentioning that when the amp input peak signal exceeds -20dBFS one gets compression showing up as decreased peak and increased RMS/loudness when compared to response one gets if peak are below -20dBFS. At moderate peaks above -20 dBFS I'd say one gets what some call soft clipping while at at very high input levels I would say the amp model sounds similar to digital clipping, all while the 0dBFS output level (real clipping) is not reached. Well, some compression is part of guitar tone and what we want and thus not necessarily bad, but one wonders whether the amp model should be run in the uncompressing region (peaks below -20 dBFS), or in the compressed region, and if the latter, how much higher (compression) results in 'true amp behavior' or is just a modeling artifact to keep the output from real clipping for the totally ignorant user. Hope what I say makes some sense. After doing more measuring and cross checking I can probably put it in a graph with a more detailed description if there is interest.

Just discovered your post and love your track, arrangement, and playing. I am experimenting with EH-185 settings right now and are curious what I would get soundwise w/o your guitar (I have a JTV and should be able to find a guitar model that comes close) Would you be willing to share your tone settings (any form)? Thanks for posting.

Thanks to all sharing their experience. This is a treasure-trove and can save lots of time experimenting for people who have no direct experience with many amps.

Thanks a bunch - it's always good to get a perspective before jumping into the water. What I tried so far seems to match pretty closely what all of you described happening.

Just received my Helix LT and are looking for advice (if there is anything that applies to more than 1 model) on how to best convert my HD500 tones to Helix. Simple rules of thumb like tone stack settings for common Amp models are roughly same or different, i.e., what parameters translate numerically (or close) and what doesn't? Which effect models present on both HD500 and Helix utilize same or very different parameter settings? Any tips that mat cut down conversion time are appreciated. Besides, it sounds absolutely stunning - glad to make the jump.

Check whethjer a broken string end fell through to the electronics boards.

Thanks, don't mind cheap as long as it works ;-)

Looking for a solution that can handle up to 24-bit/96KHz.

Excellent info (and not just for HElix, but also for HD owners)! Thanks, this is a keeper Not so sure about the guidance that Amps that do not have Presence behave like the real thing when Presence is set to 0. This may be true for Helix, but may not be so for HD owners where a 50% setting may be worth trying as a starting point. Also, tone stack settings may or may not be modelled in an Amp-specific way. Always better to trust your ears than to stick with a default assumption that a 0 or 50% setting of a dial that does not exist is modelling the real thing (w/o a dial).

I had similar behavior on a DT25 and it was the tubes. Don't know which one(s) because I changed them all, but they where all glowing despite not working. If you do not have an old or replacement set, it's worth getting a backup anyway. In my case I could hear a faint guitar signal when I switched to low power mode - I'd guess that means the tubes where not totally broken in my case. Once you checked all fuses and replaced tubes there is nothing I know of to do but to bring it to the shop unless you know how to dig deeper into amp electronics. Good luck

Just check everything out and make sure you really like what you see and hear before any free return period is over. There are plenty 4 year old JTVs out there that work just fine. On the other hand it could be instrument that was returned to the dealer due to some flaw more than once. I discovered on my JTV-69 that a piezo was not working 100% and it only became obvious for a fairly narrow range of distortion sounds.