bjnette

LOL I used to live in a weather board house and the bass and heavy mids just go right thru the walls! In the room it sounds great with some bass and broad band trapping. Down size to an Apartment that is solid brick and I am having that prob you have on the low E, G and A notes. These just jump out. The speaker is going into a feedback loop in resonance to the room nodes. The answer is more bass traps. For me and you. Once the room response is tightened up all should be good but easier to control with narrow cuts. Meantime, use the Global EQ to notch out that ringing frequency or it's harmonic. A Standard A note is vibrating at 440hz. There are harmonics of this 880hz; 1760hz and so on. This correlates to an EQ and why measurements should be in hz and not percentage Line 6! Narrow, Q on the high mid and boost the gain to hear an exaggeration of the offending frequency. Then low cut it enough to remove the offense. If your room has no bass traps it might need narrow band cutting at the fundamental and all the harmonics. Sometimes it is just one of the harmonics being a problem.

I was referring to the HP25SP's but seems they were branded ones generally $225, the AKGs are about $99 here. Good value!

Checked the price here and they range up to about $300. Also has lots of replacemnt parts. I like that steel cable idea!

The choice for headphones is probably more than the choice of monitors. It can get overwhelming the choice available. I use the Sony MDR 750's to check reverb tails in a mix and pan and mono. It also gives me like most headphones an exagerated bottom end due to the proximity effect but less so than most. If you pay enough you can get headphones that are claimed to be good enough to master with though that is a different matter fro debate. I also have pair of Isolation headphones from Extreme X which do a good job to listen to what it sounds like when you are in the same room as, especially drums etc. They can isolate nearly that well if your not too close! With the HD I think you want to rule out the extraneous noises like dunncan said and suggest you buy those for playing while monitoring. Just bare in mind no matter how good the bass is more prominent in these compared to more expansive flat response models. Another good pair are the Audio Technica ATH50x. Like the Sony's more bang for your buck. I havent been checking the latest with Sennheisors or AKG or Bose but they will all make a model that punches well above it's weight.

Please do not disparage yourself. You found the cause and that is really great! How many times has something not worked only to realize it wasn't switched on. Have you ever pulled the wiring out of a motorbike to trace the disconnection only to eventually find it was'nt connected to the battery! With something like the HD which does so many different functions and has a mind boggling amount of choice it is easy to overlook the obvious. Look how many ways it has to change the volume. Absurdly too many! It accounts for too many variables. Yet what is not obvious is that with so many places to effect volume it makes sense to make a personal policy of leaving several of the settings uneffected in all patches but this doesn't always pan out when you adjust the gain and how much it effects volume. Etc ad infinitum! It bamboozles some To know it like the back of your hand can take a couple of years or more! LOL

Those Roland Cubes do sound good; But limited in tones and FX choices. I monitor thru the CD input of the 20watt one s.times for small gigs. The HD sounds great into it in Studio Direct! It reminds me of going into a keyboard amp. Your DT is going to blow it out of the water but the set up is different. Trying out the combo output is one area to test. The combo or stack outputs really need to be shelved high and low. Go for a similar tone to studio Direct but the volume will be lower. That will suit the small space but it is always best to audition your tones in the environment they are intended.

Mis matched hell is what you got. Your power amp running a 4x12 is a mismatch. It isnt a guitar amp it is a power amp! How would that power amp be used normally? It would go into a cross over! On the theatre sound the range is there to reproduce, on a guitar amp speaker cab it is only expecting what a guitar amp puts out. That is what it is designed to do and weighted that way. very different cab design too! Imagine using a guitar amp to drive your theater system? You asked what speakers to use. You must must use FRFR set of speakers to go with your amp. Finally I dont use the usb much so I probably miss duplicated you a bit. When you record a track in reaper you are playing back a track that is modelled captured on track. In other works sounds like an amp. Not a dry uneffected guitar? When you replay it via usb how does that work? Does the sound go thru more amps or is it monitoring only?

Yes a limiter set to take the tops off a bit will probably be the best to not bring up the quiet notes but if you then increase the gain to make up the volume it does.

It is probably your room. If it is not acoustically treated with bass traps it will resonate any frequency in sympathy inherent in the room ans some notes will be more and some way less from phasing or partial cancellations. Meanwhile move the amp in the room to a location like where the other amp isnt doing it as placement can make the effect worse or less If on the other hand it is a problem in all rooms then above advices.

As the pup is at the Bridge it wont need to be too low. Put the mixer at +12 and play with the bass tone controls to get it to clip and to not get it to clip. Bring mixer back down to zero. The Cougar Master and boost should definitely be effecting the model with the settings on the bass now affirmed from upping the mixer only and getting the bass to not distort. If you hold the Enter button while moving the cursor in the amp block you can put the mixer block before the amp. Similar process as selecting a second amp block. Play with it till the mixer is in front. You might be best lowering the now in front mixer block so you can get a better tone in the Cougar. Mentioned before and important to note: If your headphones have been punished in the past with heavy use you might have a issue in them. But the main point with this is on the way out the speaker has to be able to handle the bottom end and if it doesn't you can be wasting time on the bass and in the HD trying to minimize what is being translated. I would test them before getting the bass sent off etc if not done so already.

The first clip has some input clipping going on. The HD input pre is clean and cheap but wont tolerate or sound any good overloaded like a real amp with in out transformers. To me what is offending about the super dry tone is some slight articulation misses in both clips. Probably the lack of tone frustration. The fingers and touch make most of any tone. You could make this tone sound good like targeting good sustain on the notes. Mostly what I hear are missing harmonics that good distortion gives especially in the genre you are playing and your style shines from harmonic distortion. Try more distortion! Just enough so the harmonics come out feels better to play.

I find on my Ibanez bass I have to keep the active EQ basically flat even when going in a 1073 direct or HD. I can usually up the bass knob just a bit to increase bottom. Any more it goes into distortion. It is well known the neck pup on guitar has to be fairly low down enough to pick up the bloom of the string; you get a better defined bass sound. It is apt for bass as too close to the strings all you get is the attack and the low end isn't actually being picked up. The string cuts the magnetic field of the pickup as it vibrates causing a voltage to be induced. This is then amplified by your amp. On a neck pup the movement is much less and can be closer to the string. Back in the early 80s Bass Amps were monstrous things that were designed for passive pups. The active bass got that slap pop tone and made it a style. Even so, the actives could cause distortion if too much boost applied to an already turned up amp but they were deafening before that. Those old Amps are what is in the HD! It is more likely the HD's input preamp Just can't handle a driven input. I prefer to use a passive on my HD. On the Cougar there is Master , Boost in the DEP as well as Res and Thump. All effect the gain in the model. The tuner or no Amp FX chain should be too quiet to want to use or notice distortion from. Do not put on a tube comp yet. Put in an amp in the block turned off and raise the mixer levels and see if you can make it distort. You should be able to make it distort. Increase your bass controls if you want. Lower on the bass controls so it doesn't distort. Mark the controls for future reference. Put mixer volume back and turn on amp and tweak away. Realize you can make it distort. Can you make it not distort? Lowering the pups etc tells me you are working on it!

The Looper is a tool you can use to free your hands while tweaking. Put the looper pre and play some down low riff as a loop, some sustained notes and a fast attack passage. Have it playback. Tweak the areas mentioned. Get the amp model and cab sounding good first.

No, not a match at all. Without a loop on the amp you can only use the HD in front of it. Set it to combo or stack.

That is really Great! Well Done!

Using dual amps panned center will increase the level. It might help a lot to spread these two amps out a bit. I agree with bdd to just get the Cougar working first. The powered pickups are already making the input hot so any effect will need to keep it from being too hot into the Amp. Could be you are taming it with the comp which is a good thing. There are two into the HD and if you choose same or guitar it will increase the level including noise as it has both inputs the same. Set the second to Aux or Variax so you are only loading one input to the two paths. Also the Master out can be backed off a bit in case the hot input is distorting the modeled power amp stage. The Cougar Gain has a big impact on clipping if already too hot. The is also the mixer block for level matching between a no amp or FX path to a loaded path. But no clipping is needed before it. What to expect! I think the tone you get for the bass will sound quite thin once it is not clipping internally. It might take an EQ or two. These are dissappointing in the HD and the Global is more standard and should be a model imo. The Graphic might be the way to go. The Global EQ being post to bring out some bottom end into your h'phones.

No worries

I could of saved my rave if I spoted the "powered pups first. LOL. First un gang the input from same or guitar to aux. Put impedance to a meg. Distortion results if the input impedance isnt at least many many times greater then the output. I forget exactly how many times it needs to be. Best consider Active pups as already "preamp'd". You might find just go in the FX return and put it, the FX block in the front of a patch. PS Was talking about external comp as I thought you were going into one prior to the input. You could if you have one go into it and put it on the FX return. The EQ info was more for bass in a mix to sound good on small speakers. With that viewpoint it can be applied a few ways in the HD. DEP has a HPF. There are a number of EQs including a parametric and the global EQ. The game is to use the least amount of processing with EQs, FX etc to get the sound you want. To me not just in the HD but even in DAWs the more digital processing is applied the more it degrades. It is best to consider the recorded tracks as in the purest form and everything you do with plugins etc a degrade after that. The trick and game is to make the least amount of changes possible to make the adjustment that is needed. I believe this is why digital gets a bad name and we have analogue v's digital debates. It is mind boggling the amount of processing alot of engineers will do including well known good ones so it is only my opinion. It is an easily proved opinion. Have you ever made a recording and threw up a rough mix of levels and somehow it sounded better than "your mix" which took hours. Well it was! Just refine it enough to be well balanced etc. I am an advocate of making decisions and getting the tone you want on your tracks while recorded rather than more indecision and Reamping later. You soon learn that you need way less distortion on guitars in the mix than the player likes at the tracking stage. Reamping is a solution and the HD makes a great tracking device but a real amp moving air picked by a diaphragm the size of a coin does sound better to me. S'time the HD will produce a keeper. I am not saying no processing, it is just the viewpoint that you have infinite things you can do or try on every track and bus it is easy to get lost in the amount of choices available. Even if you cant hear the degrade it is sometimes good to have a limiting factor to help get from A to B. The first thing you do is clean up all the audio tracks to remove extraneous noises and listen under a microscope. If a track needs a retake best done before your halfway thru a mix as the buffer size changes etc. The HD can be acceptable but distortion has to be eliminated at every stage in the chain just like in the studio.

Generally you low shelf at about 30hz for just about any track in a mix. Higher for other instruments apart from kick and drums. Or, HPF the bass from about the first harmonic 82hz or slightly lower. Not all the way down leave a bit. For mix friendly bass use your focus EQ with a wide Q at about 300hz slightly attenuated. This will tighten the tone and handle the tubby sounding bass. The attack and pick of a bass is generally near 2 to 3 khz depending fingers or pick and this is a narrow EQ boost. Finger noise is around 600hz to 1khz and this should also be attenuated a bit. Above 3 or4 khz is wasted on bass and is better shelved or LPF'd out below 4 or 5khz slightly boosted in lieu of an attenuated high shelf., This is basically the EQ curve for a standard Rock Bass in a mix. All guidelines as a start and depends on bass etc The low shelf can be Q'd higher than 30hz and depends on how steep the shelf Q is. An overall low shelf boost is sometimes used after the carving to bring up the overall bottom if needed or a boosted LPF Q'd above or below finger noise as mentioned above. There are a few options there to apply this to your HD. Even on a great Bass Rig EQ is necessary

The thing is the low end energy will be felt with the alto 15" more so than the headphones; no low end felt in them. What I'd look at is the low level clipping in the chain, turn the headphones up a bit using the master knob and lower the levels into and out of the amp. Bass lives around the 41hz for the fundamental low E and the harmonics above in muiltiples 82hz etc. The low B is about 31hz as it's fundamental and multiples above that for harmonics of it. 62, 124hz etc. Problem with those lower fundamentals is they aren't heard but felt. Most speakers won't reproduce that low until you get to a 15" or a couple of 12"s. So when you listen on headphones or small monitors you hear the harmonics of the fundamentals more so than the actual fundamentals of it. When recording, you mix on subs to feel the low end is there and where to shelve it so listening on a home HiFi or NS10s etc the low end doesn't fart the speakers. This is usually the issue; low end energy that is there that you can't hear but effects the level causing distortion. Also, a good idea is to monitor with VU meters for this reason as low lows will swing it wildly but not heard. Shelve this wasted energy. But how much is why Engineers will listen on different sized speakers. When mixing a CD, the trick is having enough low end in there to be available for Subs but does'nt fart a 2" clock radio speaker or nowadays earbuds. This is a real skill! There are tools in plugins like Waves Renaissance that enhance the low end fundamentals not there much during the filtering of the recording and mixing. Filter a lot but not completely out. In the days of vinyl the low end energy would cause the mastering needle to jump out of the groove when cutting a record and needed attenuating. The bass won't be heard on vinyl until turned up loud on large speakers. Not heard on a clock radio speaker excepting the mixed in attack. This is less of an issue now with CDs but allowing for what small speaker it is heard on is one of the arts to mixing. A bit long winded but, there is also gain staging as the next and covered by meambo. applies. Basically, rolling off earlier in the chain low end energy and increasing the output of the harmonics to make up the difference. I'd recommend trying your Global EQ on a patch that has the tone you like to lessen the low end energy that the h'phone speakers won't handle well. But it may be internally clipping still. Insert an earlier in the chain EQ to be sure as no way except by ear to hear within the HD if any clipping. You might find that the global EQ or another EQ later in the chain, being closer at the output might be good to boost a shelf slightly, to bring back some tone now we aren't clipping earlier in the chain with wasted low end energy. The HD input preamp: it is not a high end DI that is for sure. It is more optimized for guitar. Might be worth trying the Aux in for Bass (just thought of this and will try it myself.) I find that on cheaper preamps the bass swings wildly with certain notes while others are too low. Often a compressor is used to tame it but a good preamp with input and output transformers (iron) smooths out the bass beautifully and preferable to modern clean, and cheap to make preamps. Try a good DI. Cheap versions that are good are the Golden Age Projects 1076. Based off a Neve input channel. Most Engineers will also compress on the way into the recording medium to smooth the response and add more punch to make up for the loss of low end energy from low cuts. Vocals need this as well as it is another instrument that swings the meters on the way in. Meantime, the only way to tame it on the HD is to lower the low end level so the low end aint farting. A cheap DI box into an analogue compressor, then into the FX return of the HD would suffice and bypass the HD as a bass DI. I have often thought about just wiring in a good transformer that doesn't step up or down (1:1 ratio) but just runs the signal thru some iron. I swear I will do this and put it in a box on the FX loop. Doesn't resolve the actual HD preamp though! Usually I record the bass via my own chain as I find the bass modulates enough as it is without FX but times are a changing and I have had fun using some of the models and FX in the HD. PS, The tube comp should help in the FX loop. But watch the return level. Even a cheap analogue comp gives a more fluid result but compress ratio needs to be lowish only to smooth the lumps. Setting a compressor is a real art. I crank the ratio full to start to exaggerate the attack and release. Open up the threshold a lot temporarily to hear it. Set the release about 50% or higher so you can concentrate only listening to the attack for now and adjust it for the bloom of the note not so much the pick of it. Unless you want it attenuated by the comressor. On an acoustic this equates to the strum leaving you with the chord unless you want the strum tamed. With fingering the bass, acoustic or vocals just kiss the peaks and smooths the lumps. Next, bring the release to where it nicely uneffects the note: that is your envelope exaggerated by the high ratio. Lastly, lower the cranked ratio so it blends well. Should hardly be noticed unless in bypass the lumps come back. If you go for too much punch at this stage you can't undo it later and you loose the dynamics of your playing (might as well play bass with samples on a keyboard) but it is easy to add later if needed. Just smoothing the response is the target on the way in. Oops, I just released a secret! Too many beers! This might be the beers talking but with modelers like the HD you have tones that have already been engineered. It actually includes work an engineer would do already in the box. We just got to make it fit out needs. That then begs the question! Does Line 6 employ audio engineers! The beers are really effecting me noew! LOL First is; I presume you play well; secondly, the bass is set up and functioning perfectly! Those are the prerequisites before you enter the HD!

In the KPA, AX8, HX, Bias comparison video. Couldn't tell but the 3rd like the HX, the last sounded like the AX8

I agree the comparison was slightly biased to the FX8 in the between the HX and AX8 video. The presets were done separately to sound the best to him. The HX definitely sounded brighter with noticeable fizz and the AX8 darker without fizz but more low end distortion and picking or pickup rattle artifacts coming thru. Generally, though the AX8 sounded better in this demo.

I get a similar prob when monitoring on small speakers and it is a recording concern that the low end not be too heavy on the bass in a mix. So going into line level devices the bass has to be managed. Lower it. The cab resonance in the Amp edit page really effects the level so too the thump, Dial those down. Mostly turn up your monitors to get the loud you like. Another issue is the added gain structure with going out the XLRs into another preamp like a mixboard. It effects things. You might have to shelve the low end. The line outs might be better. Once you have the offending lower bass frequencies tamed your speakers and playback devices will handle it. So too a small bass amp. Assuming the bass guitar is in perfect playing condition, no rattle, knocks, buzz etc. What you going into after the HD? Finally, try going into your Bass Amp head as the pre amp and line out of it to the HD FX return. If you listen to the line out of a Amp head it is usually a DI and much like going in direct on a mix board,

Insurance! Insure it! for assurance I'd find a glass screen protector that would fit it. Even a plastic one meanwhile for scratches. I imagine in the Mad Max future the Helix will be kept alive with bits and pieces from other computers! LOL As you said you have had gear for decades and still going well so it is not like your accident prone and things fall apart around you! Car manufacturers are well aware of this and have to proof their cars against such. Hopefully electronically HeliX is too! Being a pedal board it might accidentally be treated like one but if it is considered and treated like a computer it should last.

Great thread on a fair comparison review! Glad the HeliX can hold its own! I'd like to know what is different between the HeliX and the HD regarding sounding good from scratch? Is there any way I can apply it to the HD ? To me the HD's 30 plus Amps and 100 FX is crazy too many but nice to have. The Fractal's 250 plus is mind boggling! But, it could be their amps sound good from the get go and rather than tweak you select a variant till you get what you like. A complaint about the HD is all the tweaking that is needed but I find it easy to edit on the unit but you get wide variances of tone out of most of the amps. Dirty amps cam be cleaned up nicely. The HeliX looks a dream I hope to realatize (coined word) one day! Coming from HeliX what could help the HD meantime?