brue58ski

Everyone's talking about the guitar. I thought he was referring to the guitar strap. (That's a joke there son).

One effect Line 6 has never modeled is the MXR distortion +. That was a fairly standard pedal in the 70's but have never seen it. It was part of my old rig. That would be fun to see. And how about a Rockman? It is kind of a one trick pony but the Boston tone is one tone I just can't seem to do well. Kind of close but not very well.

Well there's more than one guitar. I heard the rhythm and solo overlap. And there seem to be two different guitars harmonizing with each other during the apeggiating. And one solo guitar has dirt in it where the other doesn't So there isn't A tone to replicate. There are toneS. At least 4.

Just got an answer from Line 6 in regard to the instrument/Variax inputs/XLR outputs. This is normal behavior. When the Volume knob is disconnected from controlling the XLR outputs, they begin to act as if the volume knob is turned up all the way, which results in about +12db mic level. That's just what I was experiencing. Although it's with running the amp's Channel Level at around 2 which seems low to me. Asked abut the mic input thing. Waiting for a response for that.

I shouldn't have to do that with a proffesional piece of equipment.

Boy you guys are tough. This is the last explanation of why or what I am doing. It's just taking too much time. Because a mic level can vary so much, when calibrating a system, you need a standard reference. I am using the same thing I have used professionally mainly for remote events for calibrating meters and ringing out lines. It is a 1kHz generator at +4dBm which is a fairly common standard reference. If you don't know what that means, it means 1.23 volts measured across a 600 ohm resistor. That is for line level. If you don't know what that means, I don't have the time. Your assumption about what you're connecting to isn't really true. For example, my mixer doesn't have a mic or line level switch, it uses it's trim pot to adjust for that. And since it deals with mic levels it must have a preamp. And it still accepts line level. All the more reason I feel I need to use a standard reference signal to calibrate the trim level in order to set accurate levels. As far as the test with just the guitar...sigh...here goes. I consider the Helix a pro level piece of equipment. Which leads me to desire that it would follow certain professional protocols. One is if you label something as a line or mic level output, it SHOULD be mic or line level when everything is set to 0dB and there is nothing else in in the signal path. Your input/output levels should be adjusted to reflect that. If a guitar is plugged into the guitar input. the output should reflect the level it is being called, be it line or mic, if there is nothing else in the signal path and all is set to 0dB. If it isn't, label it as something else. SAME or EQUAL if it's suppose to reflect the same level as the input or whatever it is. But if it's not going to be mic or line level, don't label it as such. Now here's the fly in the ointment. I took your advice to try a mic in the mic input but used my mic level tone generator instead of an actual mic. After all, you need to have a standard reference. Plugged it into the mic input with nothing else in the signal path and all levels set to 0dB and output set to mic. I was expecting the signal to be hot just like it is when the input is my Variax. Or, if your theory about it reflecting the input level; the same i.e. 0dB on the mixer. It was neither. It was...drum roll please....very low! WTF! Specifically I had to turn the Global EQ up 11.5dB for the tone to be 0dB on my board. So, just to experiment I switched the XLR output level in Global Settings to line. Guess what!! It registered 0dB! Well, maybe there is something wrong with my tone generator. Always a possibility. In order to test that I then pluggeded a Shure SM58 mic in and held it just below my mouth approximately 1-2 inches away. Repeating the words check and sibilance (a Waynes World, Tom Hanks, SNL reference. Anyone? Anyone?). My results were the same. Mic level was low. Line level was at mic level. And just to head off an anticipated questoin, yes my mic input level in Global Settings was 0dB. Now I'm really confused. Is anyone from Line 6 reading this? Is this just the way Helix is setup? Or does this need to be corrected?

I did that yesterday.

I just did one more test. I checked to see what the level would be with nothing in the signal path. Just my Variax guitar. Theoretically that should give me what Line 6's idea of mic level is. I had to lower the Global EQ output by 27dB to get a mic level signal out. That's a lot by any standard.

My thing is I have my Helix setup so the Volume knob only controls the 1/4" outputs. This makes the XLR outputs set to whatever level Line 6 has set for line or mic. Other than using the global eq level, I have no way to control the XLR output level globally. So if I have the global eq set at 0dB, and the XLR switch set to mic in the global settings, the signal coming out of the XLR's should be at mic level. In order to get that, I have to turn the channel level of my amps BELOW 2. Often around 1. That seems mighty low to me. I do appreciate all the help I'm getting but I really need a response from Line 6 i.e. Digital Igloo to answer my inquiry.

I would hope so. If not, don't call it mic level.

Hotter. I have to run the channel level low.

But no tuning capability.

Yes, line level 0dB is 1 volt. I can't remember off hand what a mic level 0dB is. The Shure mixer I use is a pro level piece of equipment that I've used at work for years to ring out lines and set levels. And again, 13dB is alot to bring down, especially since I'm already running the Channel level low. And I would hope that when they were setting the mic output level for the Helix, they would have used a pro level tone generator and not some miced amp.

Have you ever normalized a mixing board out in the field or in a studio? I f you haven't, I'm not sure what to tell you. Yes, I can adjust the trim to make the levels OK for my mixer. But, I'm trying to give the sound guy a consistent level for his mixer. And a level that's close to what you would get, if it was a miced amp. And since you'd normally mic an amp, I have chosen to make a mic level signal to come out of the XLR's. This is what you would get if you miced an amp anyway. The Shure mixer I have has two level choices for the output, line and mic. And it has it's own tone generator. So if I turn on the tone generator and set the output level to 0dB with the switch on mic level; then, adjusting the trim level on the mixer to 0dB with the sliders at 0, gives me a range to shoot for. I adjust my Helix output levels so that they all are at around 0dB on the mixer without touching any of the sliders or trim on my mixing board. Theoretically, this is what you would get if you miced an amp. I understand what you're confused about but it would take a lot of time to go into what I'm doing if you don't understand. It would be much easier and take less time if we were sitting having a couple of beers. Which I would not be opposed to at all. Again, the idea is to give the sound guy at a different venue with a different mixer a consistent level that would be the same as if it were a miced amp. Yes amps and voices will have different levels and hit the mic differently. The cool thing aout the Helix is it makes it easier for the sound guy since I can make everything coming to him very close to the same level. It makes it a little easier to mix. And the fact that I have to lower the level by 13dB tells me that the mic level setting coming out of the Helix is set too high. But maybe I am wrong. I am experienced but I'm not egotistical enough to think I couldn't be wrong. Like that sound guy thread where he wouldn't take a direct feed. I dont' get that at all. Also the digtial revolution has created a world where there are several different levels that are considered standard. I think that's why alot of CD's levels are so drastically different from one to another. My main reason for questioning this is to get a high signal to noise ratio out of this thing. I can give him a mic level signal, but I wish I could have the settings higher so the S?N ratio is better.

The Variax bass came out when the first Variax guitar came out. It never caught on. They dumped it and never produced another one. I have one. When it first came out they said it was going to be able to work with Variax Workbench. I believe that would have included the ability to create different tunings. That never materialized. (I have one and that still sticks in my craw a little). I haven't hooked mine up to my Helix yet but it's my understanding that it will provide power and deliver sound. Nothing else let alone the ability to create tunings. So ya gotta find one used if you want to go that way but still no tunings.

Kind of a long story but here goes. I have used all of my floorboard FX gizmo's (XT, X3 and HD500X) to go direct. I have always used the XLR out's and set them to mic level. I inherited a Shure analog 4 channel mixer that has a mic out setting and an internal tone generator. I have a mixing board that my floorboards go into. So, to get mic level, I send to the inputs of my mixer, the mic level tone from my Shure "mic level tone generator" with the VU's on it set to 0dB. I then set the VU's on my mixing board to 0dB from that mic level 0dB tone. I then hook up my floorboard up to the same inputs of the mixer. That way, when I adjust my levels from the unit, I know that when I hit 0dB on the meter, I'm at mic level. I did this with the Helix with the Volume knob at noon, had the XLR output's Global Settings level set to mic and the output level of the Global EQ at 0dB. I also ran the outputs in the Helix matirx at 0dB. That's what all of the output settings of the Helix were when I originally created all of my patches. I had to run the amps Channel Level outputs at around 2.5-3.0 to get mic level with those settings. I thought it was a little low but I was OK with it. Then I discovered that you can disconnect the Volume knob from controlling the XLR outputs to only controlling the 1/4" (love it). But now, with the XLR Global Setitings set to Mic, I have to lower the Global EQ level to -13 dB to get all of my patches back to mic level. That or lower the Channel level of each patch to less than 2.0. I deal with auidio for a living and 0dB is the reference level. Since everything else is set to 0 dB, that indicates to me that the mic level setting for the XLR's is very high. Based on my Global EQ setting, 13dB too high. There is no way to control the XLR level only, other than the Mic/Line switch in the Global Settings menu that I can see. Is this the way it's supposed to be or should I send this to a support ticket?

Yeah, I triple checked all that. Still does it.

In my Variax, I have models saved with tunings but when they're called up by the Helix, the stored tuning in the Variax disappears. I can work around it by using the tuning option in the Helix. Is this supposed to be that way?

ok. I still have the originals as well.

So I did the 2.12 upgrade and now all of the Snapshots that switched to different Variax models all come up [Don't Force]. This is a known issue with this upgrade. So Freman is there anyway you can make a list of what Variax models go with what snapshots?

Yeah. I suspect the JTV line is on it's last legs. But at least they're still utilizing the modeling technology.

Here's the background of the Allure IRs guy. I'm impressed. http://rockguitardaily.blogspot.com/2013/06/65amps-and-dan-boul-reinventing-guitar.html?m=1

Does the Helix recognize the old Bass Variax? I've been wary of plugging it in until I know for sure it won't mess it up.

Here's a new Variax. http://line6.com/variax-modeling-guitars/shuriken

Anyone know the backstory regarding the Allure IR's?