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TomyGun

Just have to Report when things are good and they are! Tube Change

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Nice to have a chance to say something good. 

 

I got a used DT25 that looked like new. Seller disclosed that is had a little humm to it. Before I got it I researched this forum and felt strongly that it was a tube problem, so I took the gamble and got it at a very good discount. I have a HD500X that I was looking to get a close proximity to the tones I was hearing with my headphones and monitor speakers. 

 

When I got it home I really was disappointed with the sound even overlooking the hum. The tones were harsh and not really pleasurable to play. But hey, I had purchased replacement JJ's for all 3 tubes. I took it to my amp guy and he frowned when he heard to strong buzz and hum. He said it might be the under sized Caps or something else. Then I frowned.

 

He called today and said he changed to tubes and biased to 0 distortion. (not really sure what that means) and he said that was all it was, and... it sounded great! Whoo Hoo.

 

I ran down to his place and plugged it in at the shop and cranked it. Strings muted, it was as quiet as a church. Sound was clean on clean, crunchy on crunch and sustain was twice as much as before. Got it home and played and played. HD500x sounds clean and correct with just changing presets to Amp PRE's.

 

Is it the JJ's? or maybe it just sounded so bad with the fried Power Tube, I don't know, but I am really impressed with the sounds this thing can produce at live levels.  

 

All good for today! Rock On.

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And kudos to you for taking the moment to post up a positive comment.  Spent years in various customer-oriented businesses, and as anyone in those fields would attest everyone will complain at the drop of a hat - but someone taking a moment to say something positive is a rare thing.

 

If I still had a store, I'd offer you a discount....

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Here, Here. Bravo! It really is uplifting to hear a positive posting about these amps. They get a lot of negative comments that they don't deserve. Believe me, there are plenty of other amps out there that have their issues but no one wants to let on. I've had several friends try my DT50 that own originals of the Blackface Lux, Blackface Twin, Vox,, Marshall and Mesa Boogie amplifiers and they were very impressed with the DT50's sound. If you spend some time with these amps, they'll reward you.

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Here, Here. Bravo! It really is uplifting to hear a positive posting about these amps. They get a lot of negative comments that they don't deserve. Believe me, there are plenty of other amps out there that have their issues but no one wants to let on. I've had several friends try my DT50 that own originals of the Blackface Lux, Blackface Twin, Vox,, Marshall and Mesa Boogie amplifiers and they were very impressed with the DT50's sound. If you spend some time with these amps, they'll reward you.

 

That is what I am finding. These amps can be simple 4 voicing’s that sound very good, or they can be a lab for the mad scientist that wants to explore and learn. Funny how many of our guitar idols just liked to experiment with gear to come up with an original sound. Now we try and copy them.

 

I really like having an entire vintage guitar store at me feet (no pun) and, hey if I really find something that defines my tone, then I may go try the real thing for many $$$.

 

If you don't like the sound and haven't tried upgrading the original tubes, you may be missing out. Just saying.

.

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pretty cool...

 

This is the first time in a very long time that I have heard about a sparky adjusting bias the old school way (at least that is my impression)...Adjusting for the least amount of crossover distortion involves using a tone generator and an O-scope...That is a step beyond simply matching the current...

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Glad that worked out so well for you.  I love my DT25.  The original tubes didn't' last 90 days and I replaced them with JJ's.  I didn't really notice much of a sound difference so I would assume that the fried tube just made it sound terrible.

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How do I sort out which JJ tubes to use? This seems like a good idea for me to do to my DT25! I've had it since around March 2014; very light use overall, not alot of travel time on it. But nearly a year on the original tubes, probably worth putting something nicer in it..

 

So, I definitely would like to know which JJ tubes to buy! I know very little about tube amp tech (will most definitely take it to my amp repair shop to do the swap and bias).. I will do some more research, I should know this stuff. Guess it's true - learn something every day. :)

 

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I bought mine from Eurotubes.  Here's what I purchased:

 

Item                  Description                       Qty.        Price

ECC83S-B         ECC83S Balanced             1          $14.00

EL84-2               EL84 Matched Pair            1          $24.00

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So I have recently purchased my first tube amp.  Or two.  Have a DT25 combo and DT25 head/cab.

 

Forgive me but what are JJ tubes and can I expect to have to replace tubes in the future?  These amps pretty much stay home and are used for practice/hobby/learning this whole dream rig thing. Am learning a lot in a hurry but there is so much involved. Still all very cool!!

 

I did not purchase service plans for any of my new dream rig gear.  This is not something I have thought about with having tubes.

 

I am certainly learning something new every day.

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I bought mine from Eurotubes.  Here's what I purchased:

 

Item                  Description                       Qty.        Price

ECC83S-B         ECC83S Balanced             1          $14.00

EL84-2               EL84 Matched Pair            1          $24.00

 

Thanks!!

 

(note to forum moderator... I intended to vote UP his post, and clicked the red down button by accident!!

Sorry.... can you change it to +1 and not -1? I feel like an idiot... )

 

Again, thanks for the info! What do typical amp repair shops charge to replace tubes - and what in particular do they need to be aware of with the DT gear?>

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I'm not sure what an amp repair shop would charge.  I just watched a few Youtube videos and did it myself once I was sure I could safely perform the task.  It was very simple to do with an inexpensive voltmeter and a small screwdriver.  I have the DT25 Head, the combo might be a little more difficult.

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I plus 1'd it to even it out...

someone else will need to plus it to give it your desired plus one.

 

Thanks!!

 

(note to forum moderator... I intended to vote UP his post, and clicked the red down button by accident!!

Sorry.... can you change it to +1 and not -1? I feel like an idiot... )

 

Again, thanks for the info! What do typical amp repair shops charge to replace tubes - and what in particular do they need to be aware of with the DT gear?>

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I bought mine from Eurotubes.  Here's what I purchased:

 

Item                  Description                       Qty.        Price

ECC83S-B         ECC83S Balanced             1          $14.00

EL84-2               EL84 Matched Pair            1          $24.00

 

What's the difference between the 12AX7 and the ECC83S balanced?>

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I plus 1'd it to even it out...

someone else will need to plus it to give it your desired plus one.

Done.

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  ColonelForbin:  This is from their website.  Basically it's a 12AX7.

 

 

JJ Electronic ECC83S - 12AX7

Factory description: Special grid plated by gold to reduce microphone interaction and noise.

 

samsjs:  You never know and it's not very expensive to do.  I have a 1991 Peavey Bravo 112 that's still running the original tubes and my DT25 tubes didn't last 90 days.

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What's the difference between the 12AX7 and the ECC83S balanced?>

 

Nothing technical...ECC83 is the Euro designation...12AX7 is the American designation...just a name....12AU7 is the same as an ECC82...

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Thank you Colonel.   Another day, another lesson.   Assume the tubes could be found in many places online along with how to's. 

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Thanks!!

 

(note to forum moderator... I intended to vote UP his post, and clicked the red down button by accident!!

Sorry.... can you change it to +1 and not -1? I feel like an idiot... )

 

Again, thanks for the info! What do typical amp repair shops charge to replace tubes - and what in particular do they need to be aware of with the DT gear?>

 

I paid $95 for the tube change and for the guy to completely check the AMP. The main thing is that he was using a Scope to bias and change crossover distortion levels. I used a matched set of EL48s. The $95 is for 1 hour of bench time. 

 

I read a several posts of people having improved sound with the JJ's. And others too. But my buddy has a $1800 Dz and they put JJ's in there so that confirmed it for me.

 

Try the TubeStore. They are very helpful. They can give you other options. Tubes do make a difference. There are lots of youtube videos on comparing tubes sounds.

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I paid $95 for the tube change and for the guy to completely check the AMP. The main thing is that he was using a Scope to bias and change crossover distortion levels. I used a matched set of EL48s. The $95 is for 1 hour of bench time. 

 

I read a several posts of people having improved sound with the JJ's. And others too. But my buddy has a $1800 Dz and they put JJ's in there so that confirmed it for me.

 

Try the TubeStore. They are very helpful. They can give you other options. Tubes do make a difference. There are lots of youtube videos on comparing tubes sounds.

 

Perfecto! Yeah, was just searching online, found the TubeStore website. That all sounds about right, will be jumping on this really soon. It never occured to me in a year with using the stock tubes the DT25 came with that I should be expecting something better! Makes me really psyched to hear it now, 'cause as is the thing is already amazing; definitely good to know it can get better.

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i believe it's a phase inverter... there are 2 in the DT50's the second one there is a boost.

 

Anyone have a preference between the JJ ECC83-S "regular" vs the JJ ECC830S "gold"?

 

Also, what function does this tube provide in the DT25? I am guessing it's not a 'preamp' tube; since the preamp portion of the gear is all digital.. 

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Agreed on the Tube change. Matched pair of JJ tubes EL34s and a tung Sol 12ax7.  Made a great sounding amp sounded even better. Then for extra sauce I put a Weber Bulldog speaker in place of that ice pick in the forehead inducing stock speaker - buttah - as they say here in Boston!

I love the sounds this amp can produce. 

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Agreed on the Tube change. Matched pair of JJ tubes EL34s and a tung Sol 12ax7.  Made a great sounding amp sounded even better. Then for extra sauce I put a Weber Bulldog speaker in place of that ice pick in the forehead inducing stock speaker - buttah - as they say here in Boston!

I love the sounds this amp can produce. 

 

Oh man! This little project is turning into a monster.. Which is a good thing if it means better, I mean buttah tones!! :)

 

What are the specs on the Weber speaker? I found a Blue Dog by Weber, is that the one?

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Hey there ColonelForbin - Wow must have been long week, re-reading my posts I see some serious typos! Yes - it is the Weber Bluedog - great speaker. I also have a cabinet with the Lonewolf. Together they make a great sounding combo! The Lonewolf is a bit warmer and the Bluedog is brighter (but not harsh at all) - a bit more vox ac30ish, which is a tone I am particularly fond of.

 

I got 75 watt, light dope, have them break the speaker in for you - if you ask they will do it. Good company!

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I'm lossing my mind - the other speaker is the Silver Bell not the lone wolf - bulldog, lonewolf hmm - not sure what than means...

So it was the Bluedog and the Silver Bell : )

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I got 75 watt, light dope, have them break the speaker in for you - if you ask they will do it. Good company!

 

Sweet! Do you recall if that is the ceramic or alnico? Also, what is the general thinking in terms of how to match the speaker watt rating to the amp watt power?

 

IE, the DT25 is a 25 watt; you put the 75 watt speaker in, what impact does that have on the tone / sound ,etc? I am realizing there is soooo much stuff I need to read up and learn about! So cool though, to be able to customize stuff like this.. 

 

From what I can tell, the DT25 1x12 combo speaker - the Celestion custom G12H90, is a 90watt speaker?

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I went with the ceramic speakers - fyi the clearance between the speaker and the transformer is really tight on the DT 25 so if you go the Alnico route the magnet appears to protrude much farther. I also went back and forth about getting a higher wattage rated speaker but per the Weber web site and https://taweber.powweb.com/weber/ the lower wattage speakes are brighter and the higher wattage a bit darker sounding. I find the DT 25 to be quite bright in general and my only complaint, especially with the stock speaker is that is was too bright - I went with the 75 watt speaker to tame the brightness somewhat. I would do the same again. The speakers sound great - warm, bright, present but not harsh at all. Give Weber a call too, they were great to talk with and can address your concerns about wattage etc. Good luck!

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Yeah, this is looking like an interesting idea... Not terribly expensive, but could be a really strong improvement to the amp's fundamental tone.

Around $120 for the speaker seem right?

 

Oh yeah - yet another question.. Which ohms? I seem to recall it should be 8

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Check the weber site for prices and yes the speakers are 8 ohms.

Good luck and let us know how it goes!

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Just ordered the matched pair of JJ's EL84's and the ECC83-S with the balanced triodes.

Thanks for the info folks! I have band practice on Monday/Tuesday, will bring my amp to the shop sometime next week!

 

Can't friggin' wait.. :)

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I'm lossing my mind - the other speaker is the Silver Bell not the lone wolf - bulldog, lonewolf hmm - not sure what than means...

So it was the Bluedog and the Silver Bell : )

 

Yeah, I was just looking at those speakers again; haven't made any decision yet. Just ordered the JJ's tubes first, need to take the amp to the shop and have that work done. Will give it a listen with the new tubes, see how the sound is, and go from there!

 

Interested in the Silver Bell; I tend to gravitate towards the Marshall amp models anyway. And with the new HD firmware / model packs coming in April, they are adding a couple more Marshalls! Especially pysched for the new JCM800, and the Variac'd Plexi..

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You will not be disappointed with the Silver Bell - Both are great sounding speakers but If I had to pick between the two, I slightly prefer the Silver Bell. 

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I put in a set of JJ EL84's (and biased them) into one of my two DT25 combos and then compared them with the exact same amp settings.  The JJ's sounded noticeably better - they sounded a fuller with more depth and the amp just seemed to "sing" and had more sparkly and less harsh treble.  Not sure if better tubes are supposed to change the way an amp feels when played, but I swear the two amps feel different now -  the JJ amp seems to interact nicely with my guitar and feels great.

 

I wouldn't say that it's a night & day difference between the JJ loaded amp and the stock EH loaded amp, but the JJ's definitely sound better for everything.  I'll be replacing the stock EH tubes with JJ's and then I'll keep the EH as spares.

 

Would anyone care to weigh in on whether or not upgrading/replacing the phase inverter 12AX7 tube makes a sonic difference or not?

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You will not be disappointed with the Silver Bell - Both are great sounding speakers but If I had to pick between the two, I slightly prefer the Silver Bell. 

 

I emailed Weber asking about difference between 75watt and 100watt speaker options on the Silver Bell and Blue Dog. The guy who responded, C.J. said go with the 100w for maximum smoothness. He also told me to go with "pre-rolla light dope". Not sure what all that means!

 

I did also read elsewhere that changing the speaker out of the DT25 combo can be a challenge.. Anyone have some info on that?

 

I am still just going with the assumption that the stock Celestion is a 90w speaker; not knowing enough about the variance in the tones to know how to determine what I want.. I can see how pairing a speaker with this kind of amp is a challenge! I tend to gravitate towards the Marshall and Fender tones; but I would like it to still sound good with any / all / most of the amp models; so I don't need to pre-voice it overly hard in one direction or another.

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I put in a set of JJ EL84's (and biased them) into one of my two DT25 combos and then compared them with the exact same amp settings.  The JJ's sounded noticeably better - they sounded a fuller with more depth and the amp just seemed to "sing" and had more sparkly and less harsh treble.  Not sure if better tubes are supposed to change the way an amp feels when played, but I swear the two amps feel different now -  the JJ amp seems to interact nicely with my guitar and feels great.

 

I wouldn't say that it's a night & day difference between the JJ loaded amp and the stock EH loaded amp, but the JJ's definitely sound better for everything.  I'll be replacing the stock EH tubes with JJ's and then I'll keep the EH as spares.

 

Would anyone care to weigh in on whether or not upgrading/replacing the phase inverter 12AX7 tube makes a sonic difference or not?

 

Excellent! I have two sets of JJ's tubes, and my second DT25 is on the way. Going to take them both in at the same time to get the JJ's installed.

I did order the balanced triode 12AX7 / ECC83-S JJ's as well; hoping the overall tone along with the matched pair of EL84.

 

Glad to hear that it makes the DT25 sound better!!! 

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