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bond19

Time between preset swtiching unbearable.

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I have been building patches for the Firehawk to suit my needs, and arranging them similar to how I had them on my Boss GT-10. So, I figured time to test drive it at band practice.  After all the ooh's and ahh's from the guys, because the thing looks so damn sexy, we got down to business, and it was clear by first break that this thing is not ready for live shows-  All the guys in the band commented on how good it sounds, but, the lag in between patch switching throws everyone off, and they think I am not hitting my cue.  Very noticeable on Dani California, where I have 4 different patches: A start sound, a modulated wah/talk sound, heavy distorted guitar, and overdriven lead, with wah.  I have to switch patches back and forth about 20 times in that song, and if I don't think ahead, by about one second, it sounds like I am off.  I bitched through practice, but found it very clear that this thing is not ready for prime time.  Sure, you can try to design patches in a way where you can stomp the effects off and on, but you cannot get the range of sounds in one patch, and you have to do the "riverdance" just like with stomp boxes, which is basically what we are trying to get away from with these units.  If this lag time does not get addressed in the next firmware update, I see it being a deal breaker for me.  By Boss GT-10 had zero lag time.

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Just curious - is the Firehawk app running on your mobile when you experience the delay? If so, try shutting down the app - that will close the Bluetooth connection, increasing responsiveness of the device. As long as the Bluetooth connection is in place the device is communicating with the app before completing the preset change - and Bluetooth is slow.

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Oh no. I thought that I won't get this problem by investing in the firehawk fx. I borrowed the amplifi fx from a friend of mine and the patch switching had massive delay. I really hoped that this would be fixed on the firehawk fx. Kind of a real bummer and another con I can add to my list. I really like the firehawk design and app-wise but maybe I should wait for the big anouncement which digital igloo hinted. On the other hand I'm 33 years old beginner guitarist who will probably (99% confident) never ever play any gigs...

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Yeah I haven't tried it myself yet but I see a lot of guys are posting on the gear page about the same problem

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Well, hopefully this is something that can be addressed with a firmware update. I know when the HD500 was first released, the gap in changing from one preset to another was an issue, too. They were able to make it much smaller with a firmware update.

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That's potentially good news then, how about the amplifi fx100? Anybody know if that still suffers with a long switching time?

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Yes it would be good to know if this was ironed out on the FX100 - I'm going to read through some of the Amplifi posts.

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Been checking in the FX100 and the POD threads regarding the lag between switching patches.  There are complaints, but I cannot see if there has been a resolution - Can anyone confirm that firmware updates on either of these two products fixed, or helped out with this problem?

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Hi Bond,

 

I'm pretty much in the same boat as you are! I used an old BOSS GT-6 for years and it finally gave up the ghost on me. I've been vacillating between the Firehawk, HD500x, and GT-100 for a month now and finally tried out a Firehawk at my local Guitar Center (they made me put the thing on a table so I had to switch with my hands so I didn't notice the lag until I got home).

 

Needless to say, I am VERY disappointed! I knew that I wasn't getting a looper & etc but come on! How can they roll this out as ready for live use? I feel cheated! Perhaps it can be fixed with a firmware upgrade but I don't want my 30 day money back guarantee to expire waiting on a patch that might be released!  Furthermore, I do like to have control of EVERYTHING on my multi-effects units.

 

The fact that there are 5 footswitches that ONLY control on/off status of effects = you have a glorified pedalboard and have to tap-dance within the patch to overcome the device's inherent lag between patches. I guess I'm just used to old school BOSS technology where I can assign ANY parameter to the control pedal. I'm no programmer but how difficult would it be to program these nicely colorful switches do something like "turn on delay, turn-off chorus, give 4db volume boost" when stepping on ONE footswitch (a la like I did all the time with my old GT-6) and save the tapdancing for my analog pedalboard!

 

Anyway I'll stop complaining and start being hopefully constructive...

 

I'm hoping that some of you will call me stupid and say, "hey man, you CAN do all this with the Firehawk...here's how!"

 

So, in a nutshell what I want is this: (1) minimal to zero lag between patch changes is paramount (2) I would LIKE to be able to program multiple events to a single footswitch to save tapdancing (3) great tone. Will the HD500x give me all of this? I know that the GT-100 can do 1 and 2 but I was underwhelmed by its tone.

 

Thanks in advance and thanks for listening to my rant...

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So, in a nutshell what I want is this: (1) minimal to zero lag between patch changes is paramount (2) I would LIKE to be able to program multiple events to a single footswitch to save tapdancing (3) great tone. Will the HD500x give me all of this? I know that the GT-100 can do 1 and 2 but I was underwhelmed by its tone.

 

All those are good to go with the HD500.  You can assign multiple effects or amps to the individual foot switches.  Just remember, the foot switch can only turn ON and OFF.  However, you can assign up to 50 parameters covering multiple effects and amps to the EXP pedal(s) that lets you cover a wide range of options.

 

I don't have the Firehawk so can't help you there...

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Cool and thanks radatats! Exactly what I was looking to hear. As long as I can turn multiple things off/on with a single switch this will fit the bill for 90% of what I need. Going to get the HD500x TODAY!

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Bryan- It is nice to know I am not alone- I need a reliable unit for live shows, and have not given up on the Firehawk just yet.  I spent about 3 hours last night working on patches.  One thing I can tell you is, I love the tones, and being able to switch out amps and cabs via the app in a split second to get the desired sound I need.  I am trying to avoid the excess lag, by trying to create 1 patch per song- clean amp, stomp to rythym, stomp to lead, etc- but even then there are limitations.  I love the heavy distorted amps on the unit, but I will not be able to use them effectively until the lag issue has been addressed. I have gigs coming up , and have practiced with my band once with the Firehawk- it was a disaster, tonight I will practice with my GT-10. Time will tell.

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Cool and thanks radatats! Exactly what I was looking to hear. As long as I can turn multiple things off/on with a single switch this will fit the bill for 90% of what I need. Going to get the HD500x TODAY!

 

Additionally, you can change the way the foot switches respond.  You can have the bottom 4 foot switches changing patches and the top 4 turning effects on and off within each patch or you can set it to have all 8 foot switches assigned to effects like a traditional pedal board.

 

Bryan- It is nice to know I am not alone- I need a reliable unit for live shows, and have not given up on the Firehawk just yet.  I spent about 3 hours last night working on patches.  One thing I can tell you is, I love the tones, and being able to switch out amps and cabs via the app in a split second to get the desired sound I need.  I am trying to avoid the excess lag, by trying to create 1 patch per song- clean amp, stomp to rythym, stomp to lead, etc- but even then there are limitations.  I love the heavy distorted amps on the unit, but I will not be able to use them effectively until the lag issue has been addressed. I have gigs coming up , and have practiced with my band once with the Firehawk- it was a disaster, tonight I will practice with my GT-10. Time will tell.

 

I think you will find the HD500 much better suited to doing the kinds of things you are looking for within a single patch.  For instance you can set up a dual amp patch with a foot switch to change from the clean amp to the crunch amp and assign drive, tone stack, delay and reverb to the expression pedal to move from crunch to lead all within the same patch.

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I guess misery loves company Bond! Since you and I seem to be wanting the same things (and have a similar BOSS/Roland background) I'll try and let you know how my HD500 experience goes.

I hope that Line6 can fix at least the lag issue with the Firehawk; I love the board layout - it's quite the sexy unit!

And thanks to radatats for pointing me in the right direction!

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I hear ya Bryan, initially I wanted an HD500X, then I saw the FX100, but seen it did not have the features I needed, so when the Firehawk came out, I was all over it.  I am milling over returning my Firehawk while I still can, but if the lag issue is addressed, I will keep it and not have to move to the HD500X.

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All those are good to go with the HD500.  You can assign multiple effects or amps to the individual foot switches.  Just remember, the foot switch can only turn ON and OFF.  However, you can assign up to 50 parameters covering multiple effects and amps to the EXP pedal(s) that lets you cover a wide range of options.

 

I don't have the Firehawk so can't help you there...

Radatats - was there previously a lag issue with the HD500X which got fixed with a firmware update?

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Radatats - was there previously a lag issue with the HD500X which got fixed with a firmware update?

 

Can't say for sure.  Its not instantaneous, there is some slight lag but its certainly useable and as I mentioned there are plenty of ways with a 500 to work around it within a patch.  I wouldn't want to try switching from say a clean acoustic to a heavy driven lead tone without a musical pause though...  and delay tails do not carry over when changing patches but can if doing it all within the same patch.

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Yeah there was lag on the 500 when it was released and it got fixed (kind of) in a firmware update (still not as quick as zoom or boss) I can't remember how long it took for the update to be released but it's obviously a problem line 6 have dealt with before and I wouldnt expect it to take that long, what I can remember though is the countless hours, days, months spent trying to get a good tone out of the 500

It can be a slippery slope

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This is all good info- thank you for the input.  I think I will be keeping my Firehawk, and wait out the update for the reason that I would have to pay a restocking fee of 10% plus the 30 bucks for shipping.

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This is an issue for me as well. It's making the unit unusable for stage. I understand that it would take up a lot of memory to have every sound in memory for instant switching, but what about a firmware update that would load only the sounds in a given bank? Say you setup bank 30 with the sounds you want to use for a song, and those could instantly switch. So as long as you didn't jump out of that bank it'd work. I'm sure it's more complicated than that, but just an idea.

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Yeah something like that would work for me, I never switch banks mid song only between songs

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This is an issue for me as well. It's making the unit unusable for stage. I understand that it would take up a lot of memory to have every sound in memory for instant switching, but what about a firmware update that would load only the sounds in a given bank? Say you setup bank 30 with the sounds you want to use for a song, and those could instantly switch. So as long as you didn't jump out of that bank it'd work. I'm sure it's more complicated than that, but just an idea.

Yeah, I could live with 4 patches at a time with fast switching times.

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Thanks Timmi- I agree totally - vote on the ideascale to get this resolved.

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The way I see it is that you are correct it is unsuitable for live use, so I think we have a good case for getting a full refund should they not fix it, the question is how long do we wait it out?

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I too was thinking of getting a stagesource speaker and a jtv guitar, but I've put all that on hold for now. I've said it somewhere before but the most frustrating thing is that this pedal sounds exactly how I want it to sound, I genuinely love the tones I'm getting and I find the app a pleasure to edit with, the warping sounds are the worst culprit, the rest of the band keep looking at me like I farted everytime I change a patch

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Yeah, I could live with 4 patches at a time with fast switching times.

I like this idea - or something similar to the TC Nova/G systems - press and hold the next patch button and it loads in the background (the display goes "Ready!!" When it's loaded), and switches to the new sound when you let go of the button...?

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I like this idea - or something similar to the TC Nova/G systems - press and hold the next patch button and it loads in the background (the display goes "Ready!!" When it's loaded), and switches to the new sound when you let go of the button...?

I was thinking more of a mode which would load a full bank of four at one time, the preload and release-when-ready idea is almost what we already have, we have to think ahead of our patch switches, and factor in extra time to try and make our tone switching seemless. The firehawk should allow the user to just stomp on the preset and feel confident the switch is made without adding disruption to playing.

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Yeah I'm sometimes playing a riff, singing and trying to look cool while changing patches, I only ever manage 2 out of the 3 but having to time the patch change early so it's in time with everything else is a step beyond my capabilities

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I thought it would be odd too, but needing to time the 'letting go' right ends up being the same as hitting the switch at the right time.

 

Either way, anything at all that makes switching viable live would be an improvement on the current standing...

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Hey guys,

 

We're currently working on a solution for the too-long preset switching time. Unfortunately, I don't have a date for when it might be released, but rest assured it's something we're taking very seriously.

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Hey guys,

 

We're currently working on a solution for the too-long preset switching time. Unfortunately, I don't have a date for when it might be released, but rest assured it's something we're taking very seriously.

Right in DI!

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That's such a relief and thanks for letting us know DI

Looks like I will hang onto mine afterall, I just needed a bit of reassurance

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Hey guys,

 

We're currently working on a solution for the too-long preset switching time. Unfortunately, I don't have a date for when it might be released, but rest assured it's something we're taking very seriously.

Yayy!

 

I was using mine to recreate awesome 90's Techno Classics synth sounds tonight, so glad to hear I don't have to give up on it!

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I think it all comes under the same thing, the way one patch kind of morphs into the next patch is either the cause of the delay or has been put in to try and make the delay in switching seem less

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O.k.,

but what about the switching noises and the delays changing time and tune by switching?

 

Switching noises should be mitigated in the next release. Delay artifacts are due to a lack of Global tempo parameter, which we eventually hope to solve as well, but preset switching time is our top priority right now (and it's already WAY faster in the latest internal beta build). In the meantime, if two presets are set to the same tempo, any delay artifacts should be minimized.

 

Thanks everyone for your patience.

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We all really appreciate hearing this news from the source. Thank you Digital Igloo for providing this important Firehawk FX status update.

 

 

--

 

Now if we could only get USB Audio Re-amping. And some rudimentary MIDI Patch Change and CC# Transmission over USB. Since Firehawk FX is USB Class Compliant with clean 24 bit audio , a firmware update could allow it to become a killer live performance Guitar interface for the thriving iPad Guitar Amp Sim FX world. ( BIAS FX, Yonac Tonestack, Mobile POD) it's so close already and a firmware update would allow Firehawk FX to compete head to head with the new Sonoma Wireworks Guitar Jack Stage

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/GtrJackStage


Perhaps add it to Igor Stolarsky's " to do list " after Helix settles down. ?

I've already submitted this on IdeaScale

http://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Firehawk-FX-USB-Re-Amp-Feature-+-MIDI-control-message-over-USB/727710-23508?submitted=1

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