latency when i'm changing patches

[PeterHamm]

I'm clearly aware there are limitations. I'm not sure why you feel the need to point it out especially in such a patronising manner

That's what provokes a reaction from me

I've been pushing the limits of technology for the last 30 years. There are always limitations. Am I not allowed to talk about them?

 

I think you are allowing yourself to be provoked in a manner that makes it look to some like you have a chip on your shoulder, sir. The tone of your responses is not making it easy to have dialogue with you, I agree with silverhead on that.

 

Desiring to push technology is a great thing. Asking for features in a box like this is, too... using a tone that seems bullying to more than one or two is probably not going to get it done.

[fukuri]

I apologise then if that's how I'm coming across

I do feel there is a very patronising tone taken here and that's what provokes me

However I have no desire to escalate a discussion into an argument which in restrospect I guess I'm doing

This isn't my first multiFX line 6 device and I've got 30 years plus and thousands of gigs worth of experience. I like to be honest about the pluses and minuses of any equipment

We should appreciate there are limitations and not be dismissive of them

[klangmaler]

I think you are allowing yourself to be provoked in a manner that makes it look to some like you have a chip on your shoulder, sir. The tone of your responses is not making it easy to have dialogue with you, I agree with silverhead on that.

[...]

So do I...

[fukuri]

Ok I accept that feedback

[silverhead]

For followers of these recent posts, fukuri has apologized publicly above and he has also apologized personally to me via private message. He probably wouldn't disclose that but I want to on his behalf. He's a stand-up dude for having done so. I suggest we let it rest now.

 

His intentions are good. He just wants things to improve and I hope he continues to do so.

[fukuri]

I'm letting my ego get the better of me

Time to learn some humility :)

[PeterHamm]

His intentions are great. He just wants things to improve and I hope he continues to do so.

 

fixed it for ya. The fact is, I know from dealing with the L6 people directly that they WANT to hear from people who want to stretch their products beyond what they can do right now. It's how they come with ideas like Helix!

 

Glad we can all deal in an adult manner!

 

Keep on keepin on everybody!

[spikey]

+1000

[cornerstonetom]

I've tried again, again and again...

YES NEARLY HALF A SECOND GAP!! Perhaps 0,45 seconde.... So...

IMPORTANT to make a non marketing notice!! 

I bought a HD500X and nothing could justify a so big difference a price!!

Sure, HELIX is a very good product , it's sound good, interface is near the perfection!! But I try to find information about the gap, I asked to the shop I bought it and I would like someone tell me : "You've got a gap when you switch between patches! Enough to be bad when you play live!"

THAT' S A VERY IMPORTANT POINT!!

 

Last point: At the beginning, I asked for HELP!! NOT to be taken for a fool or to cry I'm UNHAPPY!

 

Just need a SOLUTION, PLEASE!!

In reading this, DI did provide a solution... perhaps one you don't like, but it's still a solution, which I personally find to be helpful. I also want my Jeep Liberty to behave more like a Porsche Cayenne, other than when I'm waiting at a stop light.

[cruisinon2]

I appreciate the path but I specifically need to go from the variax 12 string model to the les paul model and then change a bunch of presets

It's for 'wanted dead or alive'

This one's on our set list too...I do exactly what you're looking for on the 500X, with a dual amp patch. One path with your acoustic model, and the other for the dirt, using the Variax mags instead of the LP model. Input 1 set to Variax, input 2 set to Variax Mags. Assign them to the expression pedal, and morph seamlessly...no patch switching. Does Helix not allow for that yet? If not, it's kinda pathetic.

 

I find that I can get a crunch tone with the 69's humbucker that's quite similar to the LP model.

[PeterHamm]

This one's on our set list too...I do exactly what you're looking for on the 500X, with a dual amp patch. One path with your acoustic model, and the other for the dirt, using the Variax mags instead of the LP model. Input 1 set to Variax, input 2 set to Variax Mags. Does Helix not allow for that yet? If not, it's kinda pathetic.

 

I find that I can get a crunch tone with the 69's humbucker that's quite similar to the LP model.

 

yes, very possible on Helix.

[fukuri]

I'll need to lose the mic input but that may work for me

Thanks for the heads up I'll have a look at that

I could use the exp pedal to morph between the inputs

[cruisinon2]

yes, very possible on Helix.

Problem solved then...next! ;)

[fukuri]

The Dr is in

[HonestOpinion]

Been asked for a lot. I hope that we get something like this in Helix. You can already ALMOST do that kind of thing with footswitches.

You did comment that you also would like to see scene functionality but with all due respect, I disagree with your statement that you can "already ALMOST do that kind of thing with footswitches". Yes there are some brilliant workarounds with the Helix's flexible routing but they are no substitute for true scene functionality. Anyone who has used a device with scenes is aware that it takes you to a whole new level of flexibility and ease of use. Switching between multiple amps, IRs, turning on different combinations of effects and changing their parameters with a single footswitch becomes child's play with scenes. This would be particularly true of and beneficial to a device like the Helix that is currently optimized to be used within one preset (no latency and you have spillover within a preset).

[jaminjimlp]

I appreciate the path but I specifically need to go from the variax 12 string model to the les paul model and then change a bunch of presets

It's for 'wanted dead or alive'

I don't have a variax so I don't know.... Is it not possible to have a separate variax model for each path? that would be a cool thing to add if helix doesn't at the moment then you could have a acoustic exiting one path and a full blown metal tone out the other or guitar and a bass...

 

In the preset I shared both paths exit without going though each other. I have updated the preset even more this weekend and will add it to the link when I get a chance for anyone who would like to use it. oh and the IR goes in IR slot #6 not #5.

 

 

I could use the exp pedal to morph between the inputs

 

That's how my preset is set up already.

[PeterHamm]

I don't have a variax so I don't know.... Is it not possible to have a separate variax model for each path?..

 

That is not possible. Variax has two channels. One is models. You can pick one at a time. The other is the magnetics.

[klangmaler]

That is not possible. Variax has two channels. One is models. You can pick one at a time. The other is the magnetics.

Right! And you can use these 2 'channels' simultaneously and alternatively.

And "then you could have a acoustic exiting one path and a full blown metal tone out the other" :)

[silverhead]

Yes, but I think we're caught up on semantics. Technically, the magnetic pickups in a Variax are not considered a Variax 'model'. So two things are simultaneously true.

1) you can only store one Variax model in a Helix preset and only use one model at a time, and

2) you can use the Variax mag pickups and one model simultaneously.

[klangmaler]

Agreed ;)  And I use it that way.

You can have literally two different instruments:

2 Different sounds, 2 different tunings (even simultaneously)...

Whereas one 'channel' is (always) 'magnetic', of course.

[PeterHamm]

I used to do this with the Variax and HD 500... two sounds at the same time. (Don't have the Variax anymore.)

I did some stuff with two electric sounds at once that was really really fun, too. Probably still have the patches, but no clips.

 

[jaminjimlp]

I used to do this with the Variax and HD 500... two sounds at the same time. (Don't have the Variax anymore.)

 

I did some stuff with two electric sounds at once that was really really fun, too. Probably still have the patches, but no clips.

 

now that's pretty awesome.... makes me want to try a variax

 

 

 

so you plug in the guitar a cat 5 cable and the 1/4" at the same time?

[silverhead]

No - just the VDI (cat5) cable. It sends both model and mag signals. The HD500 can select them independently as Input 1 and Input 2 for separate processing.

[njglover]

So now that I have a Helix, I can actually confirm that the delay in switching patches is absolutely not any worse than my Mesa Roadster. Seems fine to me.

[PeterHamm]

NEVER plug in the Variax with the Cat 5 AND a guitar cord at the same time. I don't understand why, but apparently you can damage the Variax if you do.

[spikey]

NEVER plug in the Variax with the Cat 5 AND a guitar cord at the same time. I don't understand why, but apparently you can damage the Variax if you 

Doubling the voltage/ current in the V?

[Line6Hunter]

NEVER plug in the Variax with the Cat 5 AND a guitar cord at the same time. I don't understand why, but apparently you can damage the Variax if you do.

He is correct, we do not recommend plugging in both the Cat 5 and guitar cable. 

[ChesterAllen]

I purchased an HD500 years ago as an alternative to my pedalboard for playing live but the latency/dropout was unacceptable. I measured the gaps using Protools and some exceeded a half second. Nothing like being mid solo and you want to change a patch

and trying to deal with a drop out like that. It became pointless for me as a live tool. It was a bedroom toy that sounded good but

not meant for my style and needs. I gave it away to my neighbours son. So I went back to my traditional pedalboard. When I heard this unit was being released I was very curious if they had resolved the drop out issue. Looks like they haven't. Watch every demo, it's play stop switch, play stop switch. No one is playing continuous... Because that drop out is very noticeable. One workaround was to run a delay pedal on the output so the hole/dropout wasn't as noticeable. Go figure. All that dsp and I needed a pedal to make it useable.

It's too bad, the potential is incredible but once again it's a studio or bedroom toy. A half second dropout when you play in a 3 piece live rock outfit is totally unacceptable. It's mind blowing that the Helix still has this issue. I'm glad you posted this.  

[PeterHamm]

I purchased an HD500 years ago as an alternative to my pedalboard for playing live but the latency/dropout was unacceptable. I measured the gaps using Protools and some exceeded a half second. Nothing like being mid solo and you want to change a patch

and trying to deal with a drop out like that. It became pointless for me as a live tool. It was a bedroom toy that sounded good but

not meant for my style and needs. I gave it away to my neighbours son. So I went back to my traditional pedalboard. When I heard this unit was being released I was very curious if they had resolved the drop out issue. Looks like they haven't. Watch every demo, it's play stop switch, play stop switch. No one is playing continuous... Because that drop out is very noticeable. One workaround was to run a delay pedal on the output so the hole/dropout wasn't as noticeable. Go figure. All that dsp and I needed a pedal to make it useable.

It's too bad, the potential is incredible but once again it's a studio or bedroom toy. A half second dropout when you play in a 3 piece live rock outfit is totally unacceptable. It's mind blowing that the Helix still has this issue. I'm glad you posted this.  

 

In Helix, I never change patches in the middle of a song (I didn't with HD 500 either).

 

I can turn on and off a bunch of stuff with one footswitch, so going between a couple different sounds is easy within one patch.

 

You can't change every setting on every pedal on your pedalboard with one footswitch either, can you?

 

How many FX do you need to turn on or off at once? Helix can probably do it easier than a standard pedal board.

[ricksteruk]

I purchased an HD500 years ago as an alternative to my pedalboard for playing live but the latency/dropout was unacceptable. I measured the gaps using Protools and some exceeded a half second. Nothing like being mid solo and you want to change a patch

and trying to deal with a drop out like that. It became pointless for me as a live tool. It was a bedroom toy that sounded good but

not meant for my style and needs. I gave it away to my neighbours son. So I went back to my traditional pedalboard. When I heard this unit was being released I was very curious if they had resolved the drop out issue. Looks like they haven't. Watch every demo, it's play stop switch, play stop switch. No one is playing continuous... Because that drop out is very noticeable. One workaround was to run a delay pedal on the output so the hole/dropout wasn't as noticeable. Go figure. All that dsp and I needed a pedal to make it useable.

It's too bad, the potential is incredible but once again it's a studio or bedroom toy. A half second dropout when you play in a 3 piece live rock outfit is totally unacceptable. It's mind blowing that the Helix still has this issue. I'm glad you posted this.  

 

I know where you are coming from.. I totally agree that the silence between presets is not really good for live playing - especially in a 3 piece band - so I was waiting until some solution like scenes appeared before I tired the Helix.

 

Of course many people pointed out to me the "Two Tones" preset where you can do two complete sounds in one preset... and after mulling it over I wondered to myself how many FX do I actually need to switch at once...   I came to the conclusion that I could probably manage most of my live set within a single preset per song, so I decided to buy Helix and give it a try.

 

I've had Helix about a week and a bit now, and have programmed sounds for 17 pop rock covers so far - all using one Preset per song so no switching latency and full spillover with delays.  This has worked very well for all but 2 songs which are rather complicated and require 2 presses to get between some of the sounds.  I am hoping the Helix will be updated with some kind of scene modes that solves this issue - but I still prefer to use the Helix than my old rig so it is a keeper - and I would be happy with it even if it doesn't get updated.

 

Helix is great.  It is so much easier to program than my previous MIDI pedal board and rack FX combination, and it sounds great!

 

EDIT: I have an idea for a simple scene like facility that would allow you to assign a value to a parameter to a footswitch - like "bypass" or "on" for an FX block or a number for a controller like reverb mix.  I believe this simple addition would solve all issues of staying within one preset.  Vote.....

http://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Scene-Mode-Lite-footswitch-value-assignment/819032-23508

[sinistralx]

I know where you are coming from.. I totally agree that the silence between presets is not really good for live playing - especially in a 3 piece band - so I was waiting until some solution like scenes appeared before I tired the Helix.

 

Of course many people pointed out to me the "Two Tones" preset where you can do two complete sounds in one preset... and after mulling it over I wondered to myself how many FX do I actually need to switch at once...   I came to the conclusion that I could probably manage most of my live set within a single preset per song, so I decided to buy Helix and give it a try.

 

I've had Helix about a week and a bit now, and have programmed sounds for 17 pop rock covers so far - all using one Preset per song so no switching latency and full spillover with delays.  This has worked very well for all but 2 songs which are rather complicated and require 2 presses to get between some of the sounds.  I am hoping the Helix will be updated with some kind of scene modes that solves this issue - but I still prefer to use the Helix than my old rig so it is a keeper - and I would be happy with it even if it doesn't get updated.

 

Helix is great.  It is so much easier to program than my previous MIDI pedal board and rack FX combination, and it sounds great!

 

EDIT: I have an idea for a simple scene like facility that would allow you to assign a value to a parameter to a footswitch - like "bypass" or "on" for an FX block or a number for a controller like reverb mix.  I believe this simple addition would solve all issues of staying within one preset.  Vote.....

http://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Scene-Mode-Lite-footswitch-value-assignment/819032-23508

Hey man. What two songs are they and can you share you patch. Would be great to let this community help troubleshoot and see if we can come up with some solutions

[ricksteruk]

One was Creep - Radiohead.  

Intro / verse = clean (with FX),

Chorus = Dirty (no FX),

End of chorus (I add FX / delay to build the sound and provide spillover delays into the verse)

This was not too bad as I only ever have to go Tone 1,2,3,1,2,3 in that order - so I used a controller on a mix block to turn up the FX mix on Tone 2 to make Tone 3... then I press the clean / dirty switch to get back to 1... I just need to remember to disengage the Tone 2 FX before the net chorus.

 

The other one is Everlong - Foo Fighters

It's complicated - I'm trying to sound like all the guitars on the recording but in a 3 piece band.  Essentially again there are 3 tones.

1 Clean with some minimal FX

2 Dirty (hardly any FX)

3 Dirty with a few FX

But this time the order can change 1,2,3,2,1,3,2  that kind of thing.

 

I should mention;

1) Path 1a cannot be used for guitar it ihas a vocal mic on it.

2) I am using my amp in 4cm to get the main tones - (but I will add distortion blocks to a clean real amp if its easier)

3) I need to use path 2a and 2b to provide 1/4in jack outs and XLRS with cab IRs - so I cannot use any parallel paths.

 

Good luck :)

[Rewolf48]

This may be an obvious suggestion, but with my HD500 if I need to press two buttons at the same time to achieve a sound change... I put them next to each other and rotate my foot slightly so that I can press both buttons at the same time.

[ricksteruk]

This may be an obvious suggestion, but with my HD500 if I need to press two buttons at the same time to achieve a sound change... I put them next to each other and rotate my foot slightly so that I can press both buttons at the same time.

 

Yes I've been experimenting with that... It does worry me that if one of the two switches doesn't activate it might be tricky to recover whilst I'm also singing the lead vocals!

[Rewolf48]

You do know that it is not so difficult for the original performers - perhaps you are doing too much? ;) Of course they have automation to do such changes, Bradshaw switching systems, or road crew, or session musicians hidden in the background or backstage...

 

More seriously without scenes (I am actually waiting for Scenes or similar before I purchase) it is possible to rig up a MIDI based solution.  

 

It would require a "computer" (or tablet) that can talk MIDI over USB or DIN and you set up the scenes (as in send a set of MIDI messages) - you could then set up two buttons on the Helix to send Note On messages that are requests for Next Scene and Previous Scene (in case you make a mistake), and when it receives the Next Scene it returns the set of MIDI commands needed which can include the Button presses, Patch changes and any number of Controller messages.

 

It is how this sort of thing is done with separate units, and offers a lot more options.

[cruisinon2]

This may be an obvious suggestion, but with my HD500 if I need to press two buttons at the same time to achieve a sound change... I put them next to each other and rotate my foot slightly so that I can press both buttons at the same time.

Why not just assign the two FX to the same footswitch? No need for yoga poses...;)

[Rewolf48]

Because you also want them to function separately!

 

Two switches side by side gives 4 variations from a single press that is on one or the other or both switches:

 

Off + Off, On + Off, Off + On, On + On

 

If each switch is also controlling multiple blocks you get 4 states for the virtual rig, but it is still limited (especially on HD500) and it isn't scenes

[ricksteruk]

perhaps you are doing too much? ;)

 

Too much?? I've not even mentioned triggering off keyboard pads via MIDI messages on the Helix, or using Helix to control a Mobius based looping system for the whole band yet. ;)

[Rewolf48]

Too much?? I've not even mentioned triggering off keyboard pads via MIDI messages on the Helix, or using Helix to control a Mobius based looping system for the whole band yet. ;)

 

You do know that bands like The Who used a "backing track" for songs like Baba O'Riley where the Guitar player can't play his keyboards at the same time. Quite revolutionary at the time - you don't have to play it all live  B)

 

I have in the past triggered keyboard pads from my HD500 but I don't sing and that was hard enough.  

 

Our Bass player sings and has a Roland PK6 (Keyboard Pedals) for pads which he uses to fill things out when I solo, but when I ask him to put all three together at the same time says "who do you think I am Geddy f***n Lee?"  :P

[cruisinon2]

Our Bass player sings and has a Roland PK6 (Keyboard Pedals) for pads which he uses to fill things out when I solo, but when I ask him to put all three together at the same time says "who do you think I am Geddy f***n Lee?" :P

Lol