zooey Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 You have to admit that at least wah is VERY commonly controlled by a pedal. Not always, but really a lot. It's probably easier and more intuitive to have to unwire that when you want a fixed wah than to have to wire it up for typical operation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dshow Posted December 28, 2016 Author Share Posted December 28, 2016 Back to my initially topic: I rolled back to firmware 2.10 today. I know many of you told me it's a placebo but I'm pretty sure my patches feel tighter with firmware 2.10 playing with my headphones. It seems to me almost like there was some tiny bit of increased delay in firmware 2.11 so that playing didn't feel as tight. Call me crazy but I'm staying with 2.10 ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lachdanan0121 Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Maybe try the update again. Maybe something went wrong in the process. If you update, and it happens again that is just more reassurance for you. If it doesn't happen again... That means some rethinking is in order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dshow Posted December 28, 2016 Author Share Posted December 28, 2016 Maybe try the update again. Maybe something went wrong in the process. If you update, and it happens again that is just more reassurance for you. If it doesn't happen again... That means some rethinking is in order. Thanks - that's was the plan, yes, but now I'm think I'm just staying with 2.10 until the next update and see what happens. I didn't have any problems with 2.10 and since there are no new features, I'm fine with 2.10. I'ts quite a bit work to update with the IRs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zooey Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Best would be to record a dry guitar track, then record it re-amped through 2.10, update, then do the re-amp thing again, compare the files. Then you, and anyone who cares to know, will know if there's any difference, for real. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncann Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 One thing you might want to consider is the people who have had problems flashing the firmware, for whatever reason. All cases may or may not be because of someone not following the procedure. This information might give you pause to unnecessarily perform a firmware flash, at least until there's more goodies as a result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erniedenov Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 now I'm think I'm just staying with 2.10 until the next update and see what happens. I didn't have any problems with 2.10 and since there are no new features, I'm fine with 2.10. I understand and share the sentiment. As chronicled here, I lost most of my patches when I updated to 2.10. I'm fine now, but it took a lot of programming to get back in the saddle... and now I have PTS Syndrome over updating and didn't bother with 2.11. I'll still update when there are new features, but a bug fix update isn't worth it for me, since I'm not having bug issues (don't use snapshots or IRs). And with any luck, Line 6 will make upgrading a bit less problematic by the time a significant update with new features comes around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dshow Posted December 29, 2016 Author Share Posted December 29, 2016 Best would be to record a dry guitar track, then record it re-amped through 2.10, update, then do the re-amp thing again, compare the files. Then you, and anyone who cares to know, will know if there's any difference, for real. The change is not really in the sound, its in how it feels and I guess there is little if any difference when only listen to a recorded track. It seems that there is just a little more latency in 2.11 which is only noticable when playing with headphones, but it reduces the feeling when playing a lot. That is one of the reason I don't like computer based simulation - I'm really picky when it comes to latency when playing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dshow Posted December 29, 2016 Author Share Posted December 29, 2016 One thing you might want to consider is the people who have had problems flashing the firmware, for whatever reason. All cases may or may not be because of someone not following the procedure. This information might give you pause to unnecessarily perform a firmware flash, at least until there's more goodies as a result. Thanks for the hint, but that's definatly not the case. I have done many updates (own the helix excaclty one year today :-) ) and always follow instructions very accuratley. Never had any problem that relates to the update process (beside the IR management of cours ;-) ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dshow Posted December 29, 2016 Author Share Posted December 29, 2016 I understand and share the sentiment. As chronicled here, I lost most of my patches when I updated to 2.10. I'm fine now, but it took a lot of programming to get back in the saddle... and now I have PTS Syndrome over updating and didn't bother with 2.11. I'll still update when there are new features, but a bug fix update isn't worth it for me, since I'm not having bug issues (don't use snapshots or IRs). And with any luck, Line 6 will make upgrading a bit less problematic by the time a significant update with new features comes around. Yeah, I think if you don't run into any of the bugs that are solved in 2.11 there is little reason to update. I don't find updating is such a big deal if following the instruction. The only real work is the IRs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spikey Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 Simplistic view is this- an IR file (like the presets file) is needed so that we can save the location of all our used IR's, as long as they are set/placed in a location folder that the Helix editor can find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HonestOpinion Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 Yeah, I think if you don't run into any of the bugs that are solved in 2.11 there is little reason to update. I don't find updating is such a big deal if following the instruction. The only real work is the IRs. I have never had an issue with updating but I think there are several improvements that could be made with two things in particular that would make it much more bullet-proof: Make backups an automated part of the firmware update process. The Updater should make at least a bundle backup but preferably a backup of everything (bundle, setlists, individual presets, IRs, and perhaps a text readout of the global settings). Issuing a reminder to take a screenshot of the IR positions for those who have not numbered them would not be a bad idea either. Ensure versioning is correct between the Editor, driver, Updater, and firmware. It seems like rather than having the 'Helix' app install the latest Updater, driver and Editor that a better process would be to have users download only the latest version of the Updater (not the Editor or driver). Each Updater version would be the only Updater version able to update to the its matching firmware. It would first do an automatic backup using the Editor currently on the user's PC. After a successful backup the Updater would download the latest version of the Editor and driver and then update the firmware. I know this is a tall order for the Updater but there is a substantial segment of the Helix user base that are musicians first and computer users as a distant third. There are probably some issues with this kind of an update that need to be considered in the event that someone needs to roll back but overall this type of update might be much simpler and less error prone for the wider Helix community. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spikey Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 I flat guessing (again), but it appears that there is an export elephant (sales) depending on an import mouse (service). Im mean If you have only 2 coders working on huge amount of software requests we caused, the bottlenecked back negative pressure must be 10 -12 or so and climbing. If thats the case, poor DI is stuck in the middle of all this and griping (esp. mine) doesn't help, sigh.... Sorry DI. Must... control.... sarcasm..... fingers.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil_m Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 I have never had an issue with updating but I think there are several improvements that could be made with two things in particular that would make it much more bullet-proof: Make backups an automated part of the firmware update process. The Updater should make at least a bundle backup but preferably a backup of everything (bundle, setlists, individual presets, IRs, and perhaps a text readout of the global settings). Issuing a reminder to take a screenshot of the IR positions for those who have not numbered them would not be a bad idea either. Ensure versioning is correct between the Editor, driver, Updater, and firmware. It seems like rather than having the 'Helix' app install the latest Updater, driver and Editor that a better process would be to have users download only the latest version of the Updater (not the Editor or driver). Each Updater version would be the only Updater version able to update to the its matching firmware. It would first do an automatic backup using the Editor currently on the user's PC. After a successful backup the Updater would download the latest version of the Editor and driver and then update the firmware. I know this is a tall order for the Updater but there is a substantial segment of the Helix user base that are musicians first and computer users as a distant third. There are probably some issues with this kind of an update that need to be considered in the event that someone needs to roll back but overall this type of update might be much simpler and less error prone for the wider Helix community. The Updater version is actually the least important part of the update process, as you can actually use an outdated version of the Updater to install the latest version of the firmware. The Updater is actually a relatively simple utility that's main function is downloading the firmware file from the Line 6 servers and sending it to the device. Line 6 Updater is used for other Line 6 devices, not just the Helix, so that's one reason they don't release a new version for every Helix update. It is unlike the old Line 6 Monkey in that regard. Line 6Monkey had to be updated for every firmware update for everything it supported, so it made it kind of maddening in the sense that it always needed updated. Anyway, as DI has hinted, Line 6 is looking at way at streamlining the process, and things will make more sense in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HonestOpinion Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 The Updater version is actually the least important part of the update process, as you can actually use an outdated version of the Updater to install the latest version of the firmware. The Updater is actually a relatively simple utility that's main function is downloading the firmware file from the Line 6 servers and sending it to the device. Line 6 Updater is used for other Line 6 devices, not just the Helix, so that's one reason they don't release a new version for every Helix update. It is unlike the old Line 6 Monkey in that regard. Line 6Monkey had to be updated for every firmware update for everything it supported, so it made it kind of maddening in the sense that it always needed updated. Anyway, as DI has hinted, Line 6 is looking at way at streamlining the process, and things will make more sense in the future. I have seen the posts from DI so I am expecting the process to improve. Maybe I need to clarify my point. I am not saying that the Updater has to be updated every time. I am simply saying right now that it is the vehicle/gateway for updating the firmware and should also be the arbiter that makes sure that the firmware and the Editor and driver versions are all matched properly. A bonus would be ensuring proper backups so people don't update their firmware without them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarmaniac64 Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 That's the first thing I would normally say but this time to me it is pretty noticable. Maybe I'll do a rollback and comparision between 2.10 and 2.11 on christmas holidays - I'll see. Oh i am pretty sure they sound the same Someone recorded a preset when we where on v1.04 and after v2.0 rerecorded the same preset again no it was no difference in tone. But please do a roll back and try record a dry clip and then run it reamped thrue Helix on a factory preset then update and do the same thing I have mine on repair right now its on 2.10 so if thsy dont do anything with the software it will be on 2.10 when i get mine back i can do the same and then update to 2.11 and we would know for sure.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarzman Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 Back to my initially topic: I rolled back to firmware 2.10 today. I know many of you told me it's a placebo but I'm pretty sure my patches feel tighter with firmware 2.10 playing with my headphones. It seems to me almost like there was some tiny bit of increased delay in firmware 2.11 so that playing didn't feel as tight. Call me crazy but I'm staying with 2.10 ;-) @Dshow did you have to install the 2.10 editor to roll back as well or can you use the ( 2.11 editor)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dshow Posted January 7, 2017 Author Share Posted January 7, 2017 @Dshow did you have to install the 2.10 editor to roll back as well or can you use the ( 2.11 editor)... I left Editor in version 2.11 installed - no problems so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dshow Posted January 7, 2017 Author Share Posted January 7, 2017 Oh i am pretty sure they sound the same Someone recorded a preset when we where on v1.04 and after v2.0 rerecorded the same preset again no it was no difference in tone. But please do a roll back and try record a dry clip and then run it reamped thrue Helix on a factory preset then update and do the same thing I have mine on repair right now its on 2.10 so if thsy dont do anything with the software it will be on 2.10 when i get mine back i can do the same and then update to 2.11 and we would know for sure.. I'll stay at 2.10 until the next major update. It is hard to capture on a recording because it's more a feel thing than sound. It seemed to me that latency was increased but we'll see on next big update. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsd512 Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 I'll stay at 2.10 until the next major update. It is hard to capture on a recording because it's more a feel thing than sound. It seemed to me that latency was increased but we'll see on next big update. That should be very easy to measure. As zooy suggested a while back, record a dry track. Then re-amp it on 2.10. Update and then re-amp it on 2.11. Then zoom in on the two tracks in your DAW and note whether the track from 2.11 is offset from that of 2.10 - that should clearly identify any additional latency in 2.11. If they line-up, no new latency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverhead Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 ... It is hard to capture on a recording because it's more a feel thing than sound.... Maybe the thread title should be 'change of feel after update...'? Sounds rather nebulous. If a controlled recording as suggested shows a difference then there's a difference. If not, there's no difference. On the other hand, your feeling can't be wrong despite what the recording shows. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarzman Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 I left Editor in version 2.11 installed - no problems so far. Thanks Dshow! Did you try re-installing 2.11 before rolling back? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dshow Posted January 8, 2017 Author Share Posted January 8, 2017 Thanks Dshow! Did you try re-installing 2.11 before rolling back? No just left it as it was Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dshow Posted January 8, 2017 Author Share Posted January 8, 2017 Maybe the thread title should be 'change of feel after update...'? Sounds rather nebulous. If a controlled recording as suggested shows a difference then there's a difference. If not, there's no difference. On the other hand, your feeling can't be wrong despite what the recording shows. ;) Yeah, but it's one of those things, you know. If I hear it, it is there ;-) - no matter what anyone else says. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.