Delays ...

[jimwelniak]

Would be nice for some more variety in delays.  

 

[spikey]

Yea I agree. I brought it up on another thread how the KPA just got a "MotherLode" full of new wonderful sounding delays and hope that Helix receives the same love at some point.

[datacommando]

Yea I agree. I brought it up on another thread how the KPA just got a "MotherLode" full of new wonderful sounding delays and hope that Helix receives the same love at some point.

Seems that Line6 has just updated the Echo Farm plugin for ProTools. Maybe they have something in the pipeline for Helix users?

[spikey]

That would be nice huh! 

[duncann]

I'm curious about what sort of delays are missing? I can't think of really anything. Plus don't forget that you can increase the variety greatly by combining delays, and using other effects after delays when used in a parallel path.

 

Also, there are a couple of new delays coming in the next update.

[spikey]

Not that anything basic might be missing from Helix duncann. But more options (more FX options) are always usually better. 

[duncann]

Not that anything basic might be missing from Helix duncann. But more options (more FX options) are always usually better. 

 

What kind of FX options?

[tommasoferrarese]

I've experimented with delays+fx blocks, using an fx loop like this (on a parallel path)  --->FX RET--[FX BLOCK]--DLY--FX SEND :) opens up a lot of new posibilities!!

 

But... I really miss the implementation of the reverse delay in Strymon TimeLine, which resets the backward buffer with playing dynamics, thus giving more musical and predictable results..

[datacommando]

That would be nice huh!

 

Yup! That would be cool - we shall see!

[spikey]

What kind of FX options?

Well like more delays for instance. More reverbs. More F... wait for it... X....  ;)

More Variety...

 

Kinda like what Kemper did that I linked above, would be nice I think.

[Rocco_Crocco]

This thread title made me think of this...

 

 

[willjrock]

I'm curious about what sort of delays are missing? I can't think of really anything. Plus don't forget that you can increase the variety greatly by combining delays, and using other effects after delays when used in a parallel path.

 

Also, there are a couple of new delays coming in the next update.

I agree man...and thats all they are really doing now anyway. Its all they CAN do. Delay is really only about the time, feedback and width. Anything else is just a creative option mixed into the delay. I dont need line 6 to do that for me personally. Id rather see them concentrate on more important things. Just my opinion though.

[duncann]

Well like more delays for instance. More reverbs. More F... wait for it... X....  ;)

More Variety...

 

Kinda like what Kemper did that I linked above, would be nice I think.

 

Maybe if Line 6 created a profile system for FX blocks (one profile could include multiple blocks, a sort of a sub/mini-preset for constructing purposes, but not snapshots either), and then created a long list of delay profiles using the existing delays with creative names attached to them, might that increase the variety? Paraphrasing willjrock above, the variety is already there, you just have to find it. Although I have to admit the crystal delay for the Kemper in your link above is rather nice sounding.

 

I've experimented with delays+fx blocks, using an fx loop like this (on a parallel path)  --->FX RET--[FX BLOCK]--DLY--FX SEND :) opens up a lot of new posibilities!!

 

But... I really miss the implementation of the reverse delay in Strymon TimeLine, which resets the backward buffer with playing dynamics, thus giving more musical and predictable results..

 

This addition to the reverse delay sounds interesting. Is there a link to Ideascale for this?

[tommasoferrarese]

Yes, there is my submission: https://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Reverse-delay-dynamic-triggering/841203-23508

 

It's actually the only thing I am missing of the TimeLine 

[spikey]

Maybe if Line 6 created a profile system for FX blocks (one profile could include multiple blocks, a sort of a sub/mini-preset for constructing purposes, but not snapshots either), and then created a long list of delay profiles using the existing delays with creative names attached to them, might that increase the variety? Paraphrasing willjrock above, the variety is already there, you just have to find it. Although I have to admit the crystal delay for the Kemper in your link above is rather nice sounding.

 

 

Maybe if Line 6 did what you suggest duncann, then we wouldn't have to "find" it would we. Cause they would just be there. Look I have both units so I want the best for both. So you can chide the Helix competition all you like but the fact is Kemper has more delays "per-say" than Helix has. Here's what is stated about that...

 

"The Kemper approach to delay effects is quite different from what musicians are accustomed with: There is no dedicated Reverse Delay, Tape Delay or Ducking Delay. Kemper decided that it simply makes no sense splitting crucial tone design features into separate delay types. Instead, Kemper have equipped every single delay type with a range of tone shaping parameters – and routing of course: Why not have a Dual Reverse Delay? Or a Serial Delay with analog tape character? Or a Melody Delay with ducking? All of these are possible with the new delays in the Profiler, from OS 5.0 and up."

 

For example Helix has a total of "16" delays available. I checked this in the editor. Let me state that again, Only 16 delays are available in Helix no matter how you adjust them, slice them or dice them, and since we are not calling a preset a preset unless it's done by Line 6 standards. Here's the list of the "new TYPES" of delays added in Kemper's last patch.

 

Crystal Delay

Loop Pitch Delay

Frequency Shifter Delay

Dual Chromatic Delay

Dual Harmonic Delay

Dual Loop Pitch Delay

Melody Chromatic Delay

Melody Harmonic Delay

Quad Chromatic Delay

Quad Harmonic Delay

 

Now they may be derived from 5 or 6 of the same basic delays, but just add 6 more that sound like these and you have as many as Helix does now, and THIS was just an update. So find all you like in Helix because that's the only way you will get more of them. My point is this..., why deride me for wanting more variety in Helix, on EVERYTHING? Thats what I want, and I use their competition as an example. And if that stings a bit so be it. I figured that's what we would all want? Am I wrong about that?

[Lachdanan0121]

Na, not wrong Spikey. 

 

Delay, and reverb, are two of my post loved FX. Its why I chime so much about HX Reverbs.

 

I would love more delays. but I think we have seen a new delay added with almost every single FW update so far. So I think we will eventually have an army of delay types in the Helix before its all said, and done.

 

I also have assumptions about the HX reverbs being worked on as we speak (or right after next update) because of the current reverbs will be getting DSP optimizations in the Feb update. Which in turn breathes room for higher quality reverbs in the Helix.

[duncann]

Maybe if Line 6 did what you suggest duncann, then we wouldn't have to "find" it would we. Cause they would just be there. Look I have both units so I want the best for both. So you can chide the Helix competition all you like but the fact is Kemper has more delays "per-say" than Helix has. Here's what is stated about that...

 

"The Kemper approach to delay effects is quite different from what musicians are accustomed with: There is no dedicated Reverse Delay, Tape Delay or Ducking Delay. Kemper decided that it simply makes no sense splitting crucial tone design features into separate delay types. Instead, Kemper have equipped every single delay type with a range of tone shaping parameters – and routing of course: Why not have a Dual Reverse Delay? Or a Serial Delay with analog tape character? Or a Melody Delay with ducking? All of these are possible with the new delays in the Profiler, from OS 5.0 and up."

 

For example Helix has a total of "16" delays available. I checked this in the editor. Let me state that again, Only 16 delays are available in Helix no matter how you adjust them, slice them or dice them, and since we are not calling a preset a preset unless it's done by Line 6 standards. Here's the list of the "new TYPES" of delays added in Kemper's last patch.

 

Crystal Delay

Loop Pitch Delay

Frequency Shifter Delay

Dual Chromatic Delay

Dual Harmonic Delay

Dual Loop Pitch Delay

Melody Chromatic Delay

Melody Harmonic Delay

Quad Chromatic Delay

Quad Harmonic Delay

 

Now they may be derived from 5 or 6 of the same basic delays, but just add 6 more that sound like these and you have as many as Helix does now, and THIS was just an update. So find all you like in Helix because that's the only way you will get more of them. My point is this..., why deride me for wanting more variety in Helix, on EVERYTHING? Thats what I want, and I use their competition as an example. And if that stings a bit so be it. I figured that's what we would all want? Am I wrong about that?

 

It wasn't my intention to deride your priorities for Helix in any way, or to chide the Kemper Profiler. I've got nothing against any of Helix's competition. In a maybe not so eloquent way, I was more or less trying to get a more specific definition of what variety means in this context, and you've done that. Apologies. It's all good.

 

Kemper's approach to delays sounds interesting, and flexible, more so than how Helix does it, which seems more of a brute force approach.

 

I just think Line 6's time is better spent on other areas for the time being, and was pointing out that there is more delay variety in Helix than a first glance would lead one to believe.

[HonestOpinion]

I find the delays on the Helix cover a wide range of sounds and to be quite nice indeed and totally adequate for my usage which doesn't require some of the more obscure or boutique delays. My one small issue with them is that the Mix parameter seems to be particularly sensitive starting at very low numbers. The difference between for instance 13% and 20% is quite substantial depending on how your routing is set up. It would be nice to see the mix scale up a bit more slowly. The mix seems to jump rather dramatically down at the lower end. The mix parameter reminds me in some ways of an expression pedal with very uneven scaling during its travel.

[duncann]

I find the delays on the Helix cover a wide range of sounds and to be quite nice indeed and totally adequate for my usage which doesn't require some of the more obscure or boutique delays. My one small issue with them is that the Mix parameter seems to be particularly sensitive starting at very low numbers. The difference between for instance 13% and 20% is quite substantial depending on how your routing is set up. It would be nice to see the mix scale up a bit more slowly. The mix seems to jump rather dramatically down at the lower end. The mix parameter reminds me in some ways of an expression pedal with very uneven scaling during its travel.

 

I've noticed that too. Twelve percent is the absolute minimum I'll ever use because anything below that is basically inaudible. I wonder if it has something to do with the fact that wet signal only goes from 0 to 50. Beyond 50, the wet signal stays the same and the dry signal starts vanishing.

[HonestOpinion]

I've noticed that too. Twelve percent is the absolute minimum I'll ever use because anything below that is basically inaudible. I wonder if it has something to do with the fact that wet signal only goes from 0 to 50. Beyond 50, the wet signal stays the same and the dry signal starts vanishing.

 

I am sure the 0-50 aspect does play into it as that gives you half as much knob travel but it still seems like the mix should scale up more gradually at the lower end. It almost seems like the increments are too large when turning the mix parameter at the lower end of the scale. And you are right, 12% seems to be around where it first becomes audible. Sometimes it seems to almost jump from a barely audible delayed signal to a lot of delay with not enough shades of grey in between at the low end of the mix where the delay is just starting to be perceptible.

[Rewolf48]

A suggestion - If you put the delay into a parallel path then you have a level parameter on the merge block that might give you what you want, or you could add a Gain block to that path.

 

Of course if you don't have a free parallel path available then it doesn't help you much.

[DaemonGrimm17]

So I'm currently experiencing gnarly feedback when I click on any delay effect that I have set on my board. I run my helix as an effects board through my 6505+, and all my settings are the same as they've been day one of using the board and I've had it for about 3 months now and just now experiencing this problem, any ideas or help on how to fix this?

[FlyingsCool]

I am sure the 0-50 aspect does play into it as that gives you half as much knob travel but it still seems like the mix should scale up more gradually at the lower end. It almost seems like the increments are too large when turning the mix parameter at the lower end of the scale. And you are right, 12% seems to be around where it first becomes audible. Sometimes it seems to almost jump from a barely audible delayed signal to a lot of delay with not enough shades of grey in between at the low end of the mix where the delay is just starting to be perceptible.

 

My bet is it is a linear scale, and a more logarithmic scale between 0 and 50 would sound more musical

 

And yeah, I'm in the camp a that their effects are kind of brute force..... Well engineered, capable, technically correct, whereas a company like TC Electronic spends a little more effort on making the effect change more musically... But, then, when you do that, sometimes you make "wrong" choices... For instance, I never was able to bond with their Corona Chorus... I never really delved deeply into the Tone print choice for it either, though.  Anyway.

 

Yeah, more-better reverbs and delays....

[FlyingsCool]

So I'm currently experiencing gnarly feedback when I click on any delay effect that I have set on my board. I run my helix as an effects board through my 6505+, and all my settings are the same as they've been day one of using the board and I've had it for about 3 months now and just now experiencing this problem, any ideas or help on how to fix this?

 

Sumpin must have changed... Did you update recently, and thereby hose your global preferences?  Did you on purpose/accidentally change something in your global preferences, like, maybe setting it to output at unity instead of using the volume knob... something along those lines..  Did you move your amp so it's closer to you (I know, dumb question, but hadda ask).  Did you change the way you connect to the amp?  Are you plugging into the front of the amp or the effects loop (if it has one)?