Helix update - more communication with customers.

[willsmythe37]

Hi guys,

 

I don't mean to winge and gripe.

 

Regarding upcoming updates for the Helix, is it too much to ask to have a hint of what's to come?

 

Obviously system stability is a big thing and bug squashing is another aspect which needs to be addressed when new firmware is rolled out.

On the whole, the customer knows you guys will be working on this regardless. It would be nice to know what new feature-sets are on the horizon.

 

I personally wouldn't want direct specifics... I don't want to know exactly what pedals, amps or cabs you.re working on... Just that you guys ARE working on it.

I'm more curios about whether suggestions are being taken on board?

 

Tuner improvements, adjustments.

Mic positioning (horizontal to the speaker centre, instead of just distance)

IR manager.

Some sort of visual feedback regarding metering :compression, levels, EQualiser charts detailing specific Q width and High/low cut roll off db/octave.

 

Second to that... It would be nice to have some correspondence as to if something will never happen. It'll certainly put some discussions to rest.

 

Note: is there returning correspondence from engineers shown on the Ideascale site?

Is there ever a YES or NO answer for suggestions?

[FlyingsCool]

They are working, hard, every day, even weekends.  You'll just have to have faith.  Or, you could read back through all the threads, especially THE thread over at TGP, to see all the correspondence from the team.  It's there.  You need only look for it.  Over time, you'll get to know the guys.  I don't know that they could communicate more with us and actually get work done.

 

And yes, ideascale is an extremely important source for their vetting of which improvements are most important.  Not the only, but very important.  All the things you asked for have been asked for before, go check em out and vote up the ones you like.

 

Check out the top requested feature at ideascale (perhaps you already have) https://line6.ideascale.com/a/ideas/top/campaign-filter/byids/campaigns/51424

(it's one of my favorites, too)

 

No, they do not, however, correspond directly about ideascale, other than to tell us to use it to correspond with them and that it's the best place for us to go with our future feature requests, and to acknowledge that they know which are the heavy hitters...

 

Not only that, there are not just customer satisfaction but also legal reasons that they can't discuss directly what's coming.  FTC stuffs.

 

And their support team is second to none.  Get to know Frank Ritchotte, he wants to know you.

 

And, finally, sort of..., they don't directly say yes or no to ideas, but various guys talk about the technical aspects of Helix at times and do discuss possibilities.  For instance, a recent post noted that the screen currently does not have a fast enough refresh rate to create a strobe tuner graphic, but the implication was that it may be possible to change that.  While unspoken, there would of course be consequences.... (as little furry animals run in fear)

 

If you're in the Boston area, a bunch of us users will be getting together again in the end of June.  Frank is hoping to join us if he can.

[willjrock]

Hi guys,

 

I don't mean to winge and gripe.

 

Regarding upcoming updates for the Helix, is it too much to ask to have a hint of what's to come?

 

Obviously system stability is a big thing and bug squashing is another aspect which needs to be addressed when new firmware is rolled out.

On the whole, the customer knows you guys will be working on this regardless. It would be nice to know what new feature-sets are on the horizon.

 

I personally wouldn't want direct specifics... I don't want to know exactly what pedals, amps or cabs you.re working on... Just that you guys ARE working on it.

I'm more curios about whether suggestions are being taken on board?

 

Tuner improvements, adjustments.

Mic positioning (horizontal to the speaker centre, instead of just distance)

IR manager.

Some sort of visual feedback regarding metering :compression, levels, EQualiser charts detailing specific Q width and High/low cut roll off db/octave.

 

Second to that... It would be nice to have some correspondence as to if something will never happen. It'll certainly put some discussions to rest.

 

Note: is there returning correspondence from engineers shown on the Ideascale site?

Is there ever a YES or NO answer for suggestions?

Im in agreeance with your ideas so dont take this wrong, but im not sure whats wrong with the tuner? It has been upgraded and while it is useful, its not meant for setting intonation, nor should it be IMO.  

 

Also, on the right hand side of the ideascale page there is a "campaign funnel" header. It pretty clearly tells us what line 6 is working on. Shouldnt that be enough?

 

That being said, i wish L6 would somehow illustrate what importance they are placing on these ideas relative to a time frame. For instance 17 ideas are in progress but which are they working toward most?

 

IMO the IR situation should have been dealt with long ago. Especially being such a simple implementation. Even if it resides outside the editor, it would be acceptable.

[PeterHamm]

No.

You don't get to have this, because promising stuff before you know you can deliver it is not what Line 6 does.

 

They've explained why plenty of times.

 

I would say this to you, though. If Helix doesn't have a feature you have decided you NEED, either get the pedal that does that and put it in a loop (for me, that's Mel9 and POG2)... or... if you HAVE to have a feature that isn't in a particular product, never buy that product hoping it'll get added some day. Buy and use it for what it can do today.

 

Plus, marketing-wise, surprising people just before or at the time they get a new feature/model is a great strategy.

 

They do announce stuff in advance when they can and feel it will be helpful or work well for them and the customer. Like Native for instance... also all the details of the 2.2 update came out ahead of time, too.

 

In fact, I don't know that they can really improve the way they interact with customers. Especially Frank and Eric (Digital Igloo) are AMAZING at this.

[MojoAxe]

I relatively new to Helix as well as this forum, but I'd have to say that I'm VERY impressed with the flow of information from Line 6, the frequency of firmware updates, and their customer support.  

 

I bought my Helix used (although it was still under warranty), A problem cropped up after doing the 2.20 update.  After trying to debug it myself to no avail I contacted Customer Support.  They were very helpful in suggesting additional trouble-shooting steps which still didn't resolve the issue, so they had me send it in.  They covered the shipping and I had my unit back in less than a week.  I really couldn't expect anything more.

 

I understand Line 6's reason's for not announcing what they're working on.  I'm sure there are dozens of cool features and improvements on the to-do list, however making promises of upcoming improvements before they have actually been developed would only get them in trouble.  The feature may require more time to implement than expected, or they may invest a lot of time into a new feature then find they it doesn't work up to expectations, or that they may discover that there's simply insufficient horsepower to accomplish the task.  If they've already announced upcoming features and don't deliver, then they have to deal with everybody bitching. 

 

Up until acquiring this Helix unit I've been using Boss modelers (GT-8, GT-10, GT-100) for live performance for the past 6-7 years.  Boss does not give any inkling of upcoming updates and there is no user forum that they participate in.  I bought my GT-100 when it was introduced 5 years ago.  Since then, Boss has had only one firmware update which added a few very minor features.  That's been three years ago and there hasn't been an update nor information about the next gen unit since.  In my opinion, Line 6 is running circles around them.

[cruisinon2]

Just because so much information is instantly available via our cursed smartphones doesn't mean that we're "entitled" to know anything and everything about a company's inner workings. And with the exception of bug fixes or warranty repairs for defective merchandise, the company doesn't owe you anything after you make a purchase. You give them money, they give you a product...transaction concluded. Updates and added features after the fact are gravy, not a fundamental right. These demands to be "kept in the loop" are baffling.

[DunedinDragon]

Have you talked to Apple about what products they're working on?  Or how about Microsoft?  Or how about Intel? or Yamaha? ....and the list goes on and on and on.  I would hope you would have noticed this is common behavior and for good reasons.  Saying you'll deliver and then NOT delivering for whatever reason can only result in bad things happening, not good things.  Not saying what they'll deliver and delivering it will most normally result in good things happening.

 

What's so hard to understand about this?

[phil_m]

I don't think Line 6 will ever say something will never happen, unless it's simply technical unfeasible. I think they honestly don't know about in regards to some features, and they really are genuinely responsive to user feedback. So they end up doing stuff that wasn't originally on the roadmap.

[klangmaler]

I really appreciate the communication and support by L6.

The deployment and intense use of ideascale and the

'open structure' of Helix is pioneering, IMHO.

And they give us hints of "what new feature-sets are on the horizon".

Just read the forums...

 

 

[rzumwalt]

[...]

Not only that, there are not just customer satisfaction but also legal reasons that they can't discuss directly what's coming. FTC stuffs.

[...]

My curiosity is peaked. Are you referring to unfair business practices act violations, insider trading, something else, all of the above? I don't think they are publicly traded, so I would lean towards either a false advertising or some kind of market manipulation scheme whereby they are accused of announcing improvements that would cause buyers to hold off on buying competing gear, thinking Line 6 will soon have some feature that they would have purchased the other gear for.

[willsmythe37]

Hello all,

 

Thanks for all the information there gentlemen.

 

I'll certainly check out ideascale website, I haven't been over there to take a look so having seen the image posted above, shows that a lot of ideas have been taken on board. (There's a metric butt load on there?)

 

There's a lot of messages to respond to so I'll just list away:

 

I wasn't discounting that the engineers are hard at work. It was just whether someone communicates freely with the community on their behalf in a recognised location.

 

I'm from the Uk, Why would the FTC block communication with customers?

 

I totally understand about not being able to meet promises. I wasn't really saying about making promises TBH... more of a 'we're looking into...'

What is the official correspondence doing over on TGP (the gear page)?

 

Regarding EQ charts;

Basically what's already available in the global EQ... when it comes down to real-time graphical representation of signals, even some expensive digital mixers don't offer that functionality.

Even if only through the Helix edit application.

 

Regarding tuner, I think concerns about the tuner are done to it being so very reaponsive. I've gotten used to it and appreciate the enhancements already added. It could do with some sort of median algorithm... to dampen sensitivity 'a touch'.

 

I appreciated when Line 6 mentioned about the bass amp update... there was lots to look forward to and details were released in advance. So it's not that I'm overlooking previous messages.

 

Regarding feedback, feature requests etc, Microsoft do something similar after their Xbox had a terrible release... Sony got on board after the feedback program was so well received...

Unknowingly, this is the ideasxale website which I will go and check out.

 

Regarding people feeling 'entitled'. It's also not unrealistic to question the features of a device. It isn't cheap knock off gear afterall, purchase is an investment. Don't misconstrue, I'm not trying trying to incite a flame war. I'm invested in my Helix all the way.

 

As for (sorry to say) condescension about smart phones etc, the world is a big place and people on whatever device they have, are being connected together better everyday.

As for 'demands', I wasn't demanding anything.

I was questioning something and someone pointed me in the right direction earlier.

 

So to summarise, I understand that communication with customers could be a double edged sword and feel a bit more enlightened as to proceedings.

I'm not sure if it's my written tone of voice, but I seem to have ruffled some feathers up. Didn't mean anything by it, I was just speaking freely.

 

Thanks to all those who've weighed in on the thread.

[NerdOfTheYear]

Just to voice the flip-side of this argument:

2.20 was the worst update so far. Not because it had bad amps (I love all of them), or bad features (I'm a variax user so Workbench is a Godsend) or bad effects (B7K announcement literally saved me the price of a B7K I had in my online music store ). 2.20 was the worst update because once I knew what was coming, I spent every single day checking the forums multiple times a day waiting for it to release. It drove me mental with excitement, and there was nothing I could do to get there quicker. I also found myself using my helix less in the interim, because I didn't want to build patches that became redundant once the Badonk and Obsidian were out. I think for a lot of people, if we knew what was coming next it would be excitement in an ultimately negative way.

To paraphrase Pete's always excellent advice: use the device you have now. Anything else is just a bonus.
 

[DunedinDragon]

My curiosity is peaked. Are you referring to unfair business practices act violations, insider trading, something else, all of the above? I don't think they are publicly traded, so I would lean towards either a false advertising or some kind of market manipulation scheme whereby they are accused of announcing improvements that would cause buyers to hold off on buying competing gear, thinking Line 6 will soon have some feature that they would have purchased the other gear for.

 

Actually, they are publicly traded...as Yamaha.

[PeterHamm]

Actually, they are publicly traded...as Yamaha.

 

 

They are owned, indeed, by a publicly traded company. They are not RUN by Yamaha and so far, no Yamaha technology has crept into their products (but it might).

 

So they have this dynamic, but don't make the mistake, folks, of thinking they ARE Yamaha.

[klangmaler]

[...]

2.20 was the worst update because once I knew what was coming, I spent every single day checking the forums multiple times a day waiting for it to release. It drove me mental with excitement, and there was nothing I could do to get there quicker. I also found myself using my helix less in the interim, because I didn't want to build patches that became redundant ...]

Sorry, I had to :lol: ...

It seem, that less communication with customers had been better in this case (no announcement of 2.20)...

[rzumwalt]

Actually, they are publicly traded...as Yamaha.

Right, forgot about that. I'm not an expert on securities issues, but I can imagine a problem if they announce some new feature in an update that doesn't actually come to fruition. If key shareholders were to sell stock or exercise options at the wrong times, they might be accused of pumping the stock price artificially before the sale. But I need to know possible future updates now; it's worth them risking massive civil and criminal penalties, to me at least.

[FlyingsCool]

Right, forgot about that. I'm not an expert on securities issues, but I can imagine a problem if they announce some new feature in an update that doesn't actually come to fruition. If key shareholders were to sell stock or exercise options at the wrong times, they might be accused of pumping the stock price artificially before the sale. But I need to know possible future updates now; it's worth them risking massive civil and criminal penalties, to me at least.

 

:P :lol:

[Digital_Igloo]

I don't think Line 6 will ever say something will never happen, unless it's simply technical unfeasible. I think they honestly don't know about in regards to some features, and they really are genuinely responsive to user feedback. So they end up doing stuff that wasn't originally on the roadmap.

It's technically feasible, but "Helix will never have a cupholder."  ;)

 

My curiosity is peaked. Are you referring to unfair business practices act violations, insider trading, something else, all of the above?

 

We've talked about this before, but basically, any public-facing company that promises something but fails to deliver puts themselves at risk. Publicly traded companies more so. Apple gets away with announcing stuff early because A) they have a massive team of lawyers who can manipulate the system to their advantage and B ) they have hundreds of billions in cash to defer revenue until said promises are fulfilled.

 

Anything can and does happen. We could promise models A, B, and C and features X, Y, and Z, and the next day, Igor, Ben, Sam, Dom, and I could all be sniped by Apple, leaving Line 6 to hire and ramp up a new team (which can take many months). Don't laugh; it happens.

 

Also, a competitor could blatantly rip off dozens of our UI/design/layout elements and then publicly claim they're the only modeler company that cares about UI.  <_< No reason to preemptively feed them our user-centric design efforts beyond the hundreds of ideas already visible on IdeaScale.

[willsmythe37]

Ouch... yeah.

Headrush is obviously the biggest ripoff ever.

 

I could swear there was a (UK) top gear where all the standard and known manufacturers cars, have direct eastern doppelgangers... right down to the way it looks.

 

Heard Ola Englund's review and I think I prefer my old Pod XT when it comes to sound. (Which served me well for a decade. Skipped on the HD500 and sat in the wings... delighted when the Helix arrived)

[datacommando]

It's technically feasible, but "Helix will never have a cupholder."  ;)

 

 

Damn! There I was, expecting that to be top of the list in the next Firmware update! Dismayed! :huh:

[PeterHamm]

If Helix ever has a cupholder, I'm suing DI's butt...

[cruisinon2]

If Helix ever has a cupholder, I'm suing DI's butt...

They'd never win... somebody would complain that it wasn't well insulated, or it's not big enough for a Foster's can. B1tch, b1tch...;)