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L3S is rubbish ? not wokring properly for ROCK band

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Ok really annoyed ..

 

I've invested thousands in line 6 Live sound, so the mixer and L3T tops etc. all have been great and the 6 support has been excellent but ..

 

Needed a Sub to go with it so bought a L3S second hand as brand new they are very very expensive. . and im so glad I didn't get this brand new the sub is REALLY under powered,  the drivers are a pair of 250 watt and no where near the 1200 watt advertised.!!!!!! the sound is muddy and weak see below ..

 

The issue I experienced was when I turn up passed 12 o'clock I'm getting all kinds of ugly distortion and everything just shakes rumbles .. because I don't have another to compare too I assumed this is how they sound , but had a VERY experienced speaker engineer/ technician take a look at it out and he sent me the following report , I need to know if anyone has had the same issue or if this is normal operation  ???????????? 

 

 

"

This Line 6 L3s was presented to us for repair/inspection along with the complaint of poor output levels and poor Bass performance.
Upon inspection, the lower bass driver in enclosure exhibited signs of mild breakup. No physical damage was visible, however, an AC impedance measurement yielded a possible shorted turn at an impedance of 2.13ohms @1khz. A driver replacement was recommended, but we feel this would not significantly improve matters in terms of increased bass levels.
The amplifier modules were then tested at 200hz applied to the rear input panel and the loudspeaker outputs were terminated into a precision 4-ohm dummy load.
Both modules produced an output of 21 volts RMS each which equates to 110.25 watts RMS per module into each 4-ohm driver @200hz.
At this time the internal limiter came into operation and no further increase in output was possible. Due to the fact, there are no alignment procedures in the service manual,
We were unable to confirm if this very conservative amount of limiting is implimentd to protect the drivers and amplifier modules, and is indeed correct or if an issue exists.
However, It is also interesting to note in the published specifications Line 6 only lists a "peak" output power of 622w per amplifier and not a continuous RMS output.

We are of the opinion this figure is somewhat meaningless In a real world environment and precludes us from quantifying any measurements.

Given that the Hypex amplifier modules used in this product are only rated at 250w RMS And the drivers are rated at 350w RMS coupled with the limited amount of specifications and calibration data available to us,

We are of the opinion this unit is functioning within the manufacturer's designed criteria.   

"

 

over to you guys have I just wasted £800 or can something be done ??? 

 

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I haven't experienced this issue with my setup of M20d, L3t, and L3s. It's been used many times with rock bands in both indoor and outdoor environments. Since I never had any issues I haven't subjected it to the kind of testing you describe here so I can't say whether the same tests on my L3s would yield the same result.

 

A possible next step for you might be to rent an L3s for a day and compare performance. It's possible your used unit might be faulty.

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that's the thing I've had it professionally checked out .. and they cant see anything wrong with it , but its clearly has an issue. has any one else seen anything like this ?

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i have a pair of L3s subs and there is plenty of punch in mine, in fact, sometimes too much. I would do sound for gigs of around 200 people with my stagesource rig and there is a great kick out of the subs. Buying used gear can be a bargain but it can also be a curse..

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Either a damaged piece of gear, or bad settings on the L3s itself, or in your StageScape mixer.

I use 1 or 2 subs depending on the size of the space and mine thumps either way.

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Also, don't forget to update your speaker firmware! I had issues when I was running mixed versions.

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Where are you based? I have an L3 sub that if you are anywhere close to the  West Midlands you could borrow to try.  I'll be quite honest I bought it and have never used it as I have been mixing acoustic acts and my L3 tops have been more than up to that task.  To be fair I haven't seen any complaints about the subs being under  powered.powered.

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Did you connect the sub to the other stage source speakers using the Line 6 Link connection? Depending on goals it could help to change the crossover setting on the back. The higher the crossover is set, the more low end energy is send to the subs instead of the L3 tops.

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Has it been previously serviced?

If so, where at?

If it was previously serviced, were all of the gaskets and seals installed prior to closing up the unit?

Correctly torqued down screws upon closing up the unit?

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I have the entire Stagecape/Stagesource system and it is second to none. I play to crowds of several hundred to several thousand and have never had a lack of bass issue.

 

Are you using the M20d mixer? Are you using the L6Link for the L3's? Are you using AES 110 digital rated runs under 50'? What instruments are you using? Are the drums acoustic or digital? If acoustic how and which mic are you using? If digital, who's product and what kit are you using? Type of bass, any effects, filters etc? What settings are you using on the L3 mains? What specific live bass sound are you trying to reproduce? If you give us more details regarding the equipment you are using and the instruments being played, we may be able to help maximize your SPL to your liking.

 

Arguing over wattage is like complaining a street bike has less horsepower than a Porsche. Efficiency is also a key factor as well as intended use. When all the firmware is current for each speaker, the appropriate settings chosen for the task the drivers are going to do, the correct room and overall eq settings I have found the system is pretty amazing, and I have had the best Yorkville, Bose, EV and JBL has to offer and they don't come close in overall realism.

 

Let's see if we can get this issue solved, Cheers

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"Are you using AES 110 digital rated runs under 50'?"---

Good question. Can't use 50-Ohm mic cable, it the wrong impedance.

Have to use the AES/EBU, 110-Ohm, L6 Link cable, under 50-feet or

you will have signal problems.

 

Acoustical problems are typically from what's called "air leak distortions", typically

when a unit is re-assembled after servicing. Where gaskets and grommets are not

all there and/or the hardware is not tightened down to the correct torque.

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This thread is rather old,  but I'm wondering if the OP was simply overload the input?

 

 

-   Never mind.  I bought two of these subs after making this post, and I have the same problems.  SEE MY NEXT POST:

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I have the exact same problem !   (Using JUST the subs, not the complete Stagesource system)

 

Here's my situation:

 

I wanted to replace my QSC KW181's,  as I think they sound like garbage.   The L3S looked, on paper, to be almost the perfect sub,  but I was concerned about total output, since Line 6 doesn't give a spec.  They are obviously tuned for good bass extension, not volume. That's what attracted me to them, but if not loud enough, then I can't use them.  I read @DarrenHowell's post, above, and figured they must be at least REASONABLY loud.  My plan was to buy a third, new, figuring that should be enough even for a med-sized. DJ party.  

 

No dealers had them in stock,  so my only option for actually hearing them before buying was to buy used.  I was "lucky" to find  pair not far away, for a good price.  I heard them at med volume, but did not have the ability to really push them, so I just took a chance and purchased them.

 

Now I'm miserable.   I would throw these things in the river, if I wasn't too broke to buy something else.

 

I'm hoping these are either defective, or an early (bad) design, but I have no way to know, so how can I order yet another one?

===============================================================================

 

THE SYMPTOMS:

 

They sound great at low volume,  (REALLY great)    but the buzz & rattle horribly when they get near the limiting point. 

 

- And while the limiting point is supposed to be with a +4 input, these both start to limit at about -8 dBu.  It's ridiculous.  I just did a "DJ Dance" party for a group of less than 50 people,  In a room just big enough for them all,  with two subs in the center. - And I literally did not have enough bottom !  (And I'm not some homeboy DJ. I'm a life-long recoding engineer and rock musician. I don't try to melt the walls.)

 

Additionally, they are supposed to pull 250 watts at 1/8th power.  - that means typical program music at the maximum nominal level.  Well, these pull peaks of 140 watts, with the limiters tripping. So, it seems likely that the limiters are coming on way too early.

 

Another factor may be the cheap drivers.  I realize that you don't need monster drivers when only pushing a few hundred watts into each one, but these things have cheap stamped baskets, and very narrow, stiff surrounds.  Not very "pro" looking at all.  More like Radio Shack quality. They could simply be flexing when pushed "hard."  (except, it's not really hard at all.)

 

And no, the coils aren't rubbing & the inductance is correct. The drivers appear to be OK.

----------------------------

 

Note that mine both have a 2012 date on the inside of the grills,  so I'm wondering:

 

###  DID LINE 6 CHANGE THE DESIGN AT SOME POINT?

 

The OP's tech report says the Hypex amps are rated for 250 watts, but the current L3S spec indicates ~ 310 watts.  Or maybe 155w RMS.  Either way, it's different.

---------------

 

 

##  As for the speakers:  Can anyone tell me which drivers are n L3s's made within the last few years?  (It would be good to know in case you ever need a replacement, or a recone kit)  mine have Celestion T5850A.

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I must say,  this lack of response for even basic, but critically important questions,  speaks volumes.

 

I think I'll sell my subs, and never buy another line 6 product for the foreseeable futer.  (ever.)

 

 

This is really objectionable.

 

 

Inexcusable.

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I suggest you open a support ticket if you haven't done so already.

https://line6.com/account/tickets/view

 

This is a user forum, not a Line 6 Tech Support mechansim. The support ticket will let you communicate directly with Line 6 tech support.

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I must say, this lack of response for even basic, but critically important questions, speaks volumes.

 

I think I'll sell my subs, and never buy another line 6 product for the foreseeable futer. (ever.)

 

 

This is really objectionable.

 

 

Inexcusable.

Nobody wants gear that doesn't work, but the powers that be will not answer you in here. Everybody here is a customer, too. You actually have to contact customer support...this ain't it.

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On February 21, 2018 at 5:07 PM, cruisinon2 said:

Nobody wants gear that doesn't work, but the powers that be will not answer you in here. Everybody here is a customer, too. You actually have to contact customer support...this ain't it.

 

 

Line 6 customer support says they have no information at all on the Stagesource line.

Amazing.

So,  no, they are a complete waste of time, and this forum is my only hope.

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3 hours ago, Cableaddict said:

 

 

Line 6 customer support says they have no information at all on the Stagesource line.

Amazing.

So,  no, they are a complete waste of time, and this forum is my only hope.

 

Well that seems very odd, as it is still a current product. Don't know what to tell you, and I have no idea what you've actually done as far as seeking assistance...but you're still not likely to find any solutions in here. Nobody here works for the company, so it isn't much of a "last hope". 

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I've contacted two authorized repair centers, and even THEY can't get this information. - The same as what the OP reported.

 

The system can't be repaired.

 

The drivers can't be re-coned.

 

No one can even tell me if my units are working according to spec, so I can't re-sell them as they might be defective.

 

It's absolutely unbelievable.

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You’re not alone. I have a massive line 6 system using 12 speakers via L6 link. Besides the link being unreliable sometimes the subwoofers are total dog poo if pushed even a little bit. Frumpy not bumpy and to add insult to injury cost is about a grand per box (I have 3 subs). I called and did the support ticket but after almost a year of dealing with it there is no fix, they just suck. I wish it wasn’t the case and you don’t have to do much to realize the subs are weak but crank on them a little bit. I have a $300 behringer 15” that plays better than the line 6 and we won’t even compare these to something like my EV Qrx218 because that is literally a whole different universe. The lollipop stamped steel drivers are worth about $80 together, it’s sad they built it like this and now I’m stuck with this huge rig that my home theater can play deeper than. Wack. 

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