jimbohagey Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 I played in the country Sat at a festival. 1.5 hour gig. Helix into frfr from XLR out, then line out into FX return on Carvin V3 pushing 2 V30's. They put a mic on one of the V30's Everything is good until I suddenly have no sound.... I look at amp/helix/cables (this during the song) all have power. It really caught me off guard. I finally rebooted the Helix and my sound came back. 3 songs later : same thing. I knew what to do this time, and rebooted Helix first thing. I'm concerned about this. both these lockups occurred before the first 1/3 of the set was done. I had no other problem for the final 2/3 of the set. Outside gig - temp was 57F so I know it didnt get hot. We played at 10pm so no sun. The kicker is: I've played it previously several days in a row at band practice for a longer period of time and no problem. This makes me very uneasy. Any Ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbatts Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 I recently saw a thread where someone was having problems with their Helix freezing. This was at a gig. It did not happen at rehearsal. I don't know if he lost sound. Sounds somewhat similar. I'm wondering if it is a problem with dirty power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbohagey Posted October 3, 2017 Author Share Posted October 3, 2017 I recently saw a thread where someone was having problems with their Helix freezing. This was at a gig. It did not happen at rehearsal. I don't know if he lost sound. Sounds somewhat similar. I'm wondering if it is a problem with dirty power. I'll certainly get a small UPS and hope that helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbatts Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 I'm shopping for a UPS also after seeing these couple of threads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themetallikid Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 I have not had those issues with my Helix, but did have issues with my Boss GT100 that prompted me to get the Helix. During its last performance, it would just start changing presets as soon as I would activate my lead sound via Exp Pedal. Reboot was fine, for a short bit (usually up til solo) when I go to kick into a lead it again would just start changing presets... ...hooked it up again that week back at home, worked perfectly fine. Reputation damage was done though and I haven't used it since. We have a dedicated sound/lighs guy/gear and at that gig we tapped directly into the box, so I doubt power was dirty for us....but I can easily see how that could cause issues with something like this with all the failsafes they probably have built in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbuhajla Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 I played in the country Sat at a festival. 1.5 hour gig. Helix into frfr from XLR out, then line out into FX return on Carvin V3 pushing 2 V30's. They put a mic on one of the V30's Everything is good until I suddenly have no sound.... I look at amp/helix/cables (this during the song) all have power. It really caught me off guard. I finally rebooted the Helix and my sound came back. 3 songs later : same thing. I knew what to do this time, and rebooted Helix first thing. I'm concerned about this. both these lockups occurred before the first 1/3 of the set was done. I had no other problem for the final 2/3 of the set. Outside gig - temp was 57F so I know it didnt get hot. We played at 10pm so no sun. The kicker is: I've played it previously several days in a row at band practice for a longer period of time and no problem. This makes me very uneasy. Any Ideas? Are you on the current firmware revision (v2.21). That's the first think I always ask. I have had a corrupted preset in the past created on older firmware revision. It would lock up and I would have to reboot. I rebuilt the preset from scratch and it fixed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbuhajla Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 ...hooked it up again that week back at home, worked perfectly fine. Reputation damage was done though and I haven't used it since. We have a dedicated sound/lighs guy/gear and at that gig we tapped directly into the box, so I doubt power was dirty for us....but I can easily see how that could cause issues with something like this with all the failsafes they probably have built in If it is a large gig when there are a LOT of power amps being used to push big PA, the power can "become dirty" to the extra reactive loads being put on the electrical service. I think that is why some see some issues when using on large gigs. I would still get a UPS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbohagey Posted October 3, 2017 Author Share Posted October 3, 2017 Are you on the current firmware revision (v2.21). That's the first think I always ask. I have had a corrupted preset in the past created on older firmware revision. It would lock up and I would have to reboot. I rebuilt the preset from scratch and it fixed it. im on 2.20 not enough in 2.21 for me to risk the upgrade - Waiting on the next one. Inthe mean time I have no gigs lined up until after Christmas.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicLaw Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 Although power problems could be the culprit, my first suspicion would be something in the specific Preset or Snapshot that was being used at the time of the failure. When you have the chance, examine your Preset for any and all Blocks that may affect the Gain Output settings, etc. If nothing jumps out at you, include that Preset with your Line 6 Support Ticket so the Preset can be examined by Line 6. There might be some odd combination of block and parameter settings that leads to the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spikey Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 Does not sound like a heat related problem at the moment. Sounds like a software crash, or maybe even a loose solder joint. If so, that could be what MusicLaw described, or many other things not "visible" to the user. In any event, this needs to be looked at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbohagey Posted November 6, 2017 Author Share Posted November 6, 2017 Although power problems could be the culprit, my first suspicion would be something in the specific Preset or Snapshot that was being used at the time of the failure. When you have the chance, examine your Preset for any and all Blocks that may affect the Gain Output settings, etc. If nothing jumps out at you, include that Preset with your Line 6 Support Ticket so the Preset can be examined by Line 6. There might be some odd combination of block and parameter settings that leads to the problem. Patch works fine at home at rehearsal. Temp was about 57F that night so heat was not a problem. I'm going with a small ups for the next gig. (I have been out once since then at an open jam - no issue in 3 hours of playing. FW is 2.20 - Like someone else mentioned - not enough in 2.21 for me to go through the hassle of a fw update. (no gigs till after first of year) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanecgriffo Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 i've had the no sound thing happen 3 or 4 times since i got helix (about 18 months i guess) and i'm on 2.20 .. will be updating with this new update coming and see if it happens again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthHollis Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 My first inclination is to say the power cord where it attaches to the Helix is loose. If it loses connectivity at all it could cause issues, especially if it reconnects and disconnects before the Helix has a chance to fully boot. There could definitely be other issues but I would check that first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicLaw Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 @jimbohagey: A UPS is never a bad idea. Nonetheless, if the no sound failure has occurred -- only -- with one specific Preset, that Preset may be corrupt. Especially, if that Preset has been edited. If that Preset may have been or copied -- to or from -- another Preset, any corruption may have been carried along. If you have not already submitted your suspect Preset(s) to Line 6 for their examination (with a Support Ticket), make sure that you perform the Helix Power On Preset Rebuild Procedure! This will force a complete Rebuild of each Preset (under your current firmware version 2.20) and may fix corrupt Presets. As 2.30 should be released soon (hopefully in November) do not be concerned about installing fw 2.21. There are plenty of Helix owners whom have opted to skip installing fw 2.21. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocco_Crocco Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 Any time I have ever had a problem with a modeler freezing up, it was at a couple specific venues. I always suspected dirty power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackwagner Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 My first inclination is to say the power cord where it attaches to the Helix is loose. If it loses connectivity at all it could cause issues, especially if it reconnects and disconnects before the Helix has a chance to fully boot. There could definitely be other issues but I would check that first. I have definitely been having this problem with my Helix Rack. I've had the Helix go dead a couple of times - luckily at rehearsal only. I traced it to the power cord. At first I thought it was the end that attaches to the Helix, but I think it's the 3 prong end that inserts into the power outlet. In my case, I use a Furman SS-6B power strip/surge block for convenience since I no longer have room in my rack for a power conditioner, so that may be part of the problem too. I haven't fully sorted out my problem, but it definitely related to the power cord/source. Something worth checking out. --jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingsCool Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 I have definitely been having this problem with my Helix Rack. I've had the Helix go dead a couple of times - luckily at rehearsal only. I traced it to the power cord. At first I thought it was the end that attaches to the Helix, but I think it's the 3 prong end that inserts into the power outlet. In my case, I use a Furman SS-6B power strip/surge block for convenience since I no longer have room in my rack for a power conditioner, so that may be part of the problem too. I haven't fully sorted out my problem, but it definitely related to the power cord/source. Something worth checking out. --jack But wouldn't that cause the Helix to go black or show it's boot screen? It sounds like Helix is locking up for the OP. I do know that setting the bass knob on a Mk IV amp and I think some others to zero does cause a bug in which the volume diminishes to zero over time. I believe they found the bug and are fixing it in 2.3. There's a thread on here about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackwagner Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 But wouldn't that cause the Helix to go black or show it's boot screen? It sounds like Helix is locking up for the OP. I do know that setting the bass knob on a Mk IV amp and I think some others to zero does cause a bug in which the volume diminishes to zero over time. I believe they found the bug and are fixing it in 2.3. There's a thread on here about it. In my case, the Helix Rack screen goes blank. And you are right that this does not apply to the OP. I was just replying to hollis1003's post about the power cord being an issue. I have had the issue with the bass being set to 0 causing diminishing volume on a preset with a Mesa Cali bass amp. Hopefully that will be fixed in the next firmware release. --jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mileskb Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 All too often people overlook the obvious. If it works at home/rehearsal, and not at the gig, and I take the OP at his word that nothing else has changed... it's likely power. And yes, a loose jack with all the vibration could cause an issue without actually killing the power. Want clean power? Run off an inverter. I haven't tested it, but I'm pretty sure a motorcycle battery and a power inverter will run for a gig... HOWEVER.... if the inverter is bouncing an inch off the deck every time the drummer lays into the kick.... you're digital gear is likely going to fail. Seriously your best bet is a line conditioner. It helps maintain the voltage and keep said voltage clean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbuhajla Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 A UPS will regulate voltage to proper levels and filter noise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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