3 Sigma Audio Helix Collection

[schapman1022]

I recieved an email from 3 Sigma advertising a Helix collection.

https://www.3sigmaaudio.com/helix-collection/

Anyone try these yet or know what the difference is from their other IRs that makes these special for the Helix other than what is written on the link above?  Unfortunately there aren't any demos or free IRs to test from this pack.

[idlefrog]

They do have sounds samples for each pack. Just click on the image above the desription for each one and it plays a YouTube audio track. They don't sound great through my headphones.

 

[soundog]

I ordered the Vintage pack when it came out to check it out. It has become one of my "go to" collections when recording because the presets have excellent, round tone. The IRs were custom made for the Helix amps used, and I could tell they were well designed. The presets themselves focus on useful tones rather than using lots of effects. The only negative I encountered were that many of the presets (especially the cleans) had one or two EQ blocks before the amp, which I assume were there to adjust for guitar tone. They were set much too bright for my guitar. I turned them off and bingo, there was the tone I expected.

 

[ponsolle]

Just bought th modern classic and its awesome!!

[Guitarmaniac64]

16 hours ago, soundog said:

I ordered the Vintage pack when it came out to check it out. It has become one of my "go to" collections when recording because the presets have excellent, round tone. The IRs were custom made for the Helix amps used, and I could tell they were well designed. The presets themselves focus on useful tones rather than using lots of effects. The only negative I encountered were that many of the presets (especially the cleans) had one or two EQ blocks before the amp, which I assume were there to adjust for guitar tone. They were set much too bright for my guitar. I turned them off and bingo, there was the tone I expected.

 

"The IRs were custom made for the Helix amps used, and I could tell they were well designed."

 

Are you shure did you compare them with any of their regular IR's its as simple as rename an IR and that would fool people a regular MD5 file cheksum would tell if they use their existing IR's.

I find it very doubtful that they re captured or redid some of their existing IR's with EQ,Comp,Saturation etc using Daw plugins (Like Fremen does) to make a special sounding IR just for a preset pack.

[zooey]

Suppose it's possible they're lying slime, but why would they bother, they could have just not said whether the IRs were new?

OTOH, they could have used the opportunity to apply specific third party EQ, even outboard hardware, to make things just like they wanted. You don't have to be "tone match"-ing(tm, not) to make use of those techniques.

[soundog]

O ye of little faith. 

3 Sigma responded to this very question (do these Helix collections use new IRs or just something repackaged?) in another thread:

"3 Sigma here. Just wanted to chime in to clear up any confusion about the IR's. The IR's are new and exclusive to each pack and are not renamed versions of other cabs from the library. It takes me about 10 minutes to make new cabinets these days so not a huge time investment :) All upcoming packs will have their own IR's also. The only overlap there will be is we are releasing these and all future preset packs for basically every software and hardware amp sim and the IR's will be the same in those. Ie Hi Gain Essentials for Helix and Hi Gain Essentials for Guitar Rig will both ship with the same HG412 cab. Hope this helps!"

I prefer to take them at their word rather than waste my time doing a "a regular MD5 file cheksum."

Bottom line .... they sound great to me.

[MarkeG]

On 3/16/2018 at 10:42 AM, idlefrog said:

They do have sounds samples for each pack. Just click on the image above the desription for each one and it plays a YouTube audio track. They don't sound great through my headphones.

 

Which headphones do you have ?

I'm having I'm having some issues getting things to sound right with my Beyerdynamic DT-770 80ohms

[funkyou86]

Any demos or examples of this new pack?

[mocella]

I tried out the Modern Essentials and Hi Gain Essentials, and have only gotten to mess around a bit with them so far - liking what I've heard so far.  My only "complaint"/feedback is that each amp is 4 separate presets and they didn't include a snapshot type preset with all 4 rolled into one (as is the case with Glenn's presets, for example).

[soundog]

10 hours ago, funkyou86 said:

Any demos or examples of this new pack?

Link is at the top of this thread, with video examples linked on each collection.

[frankencat]

These are some great sounding IRs. They are quickly becoming my go-tos.

[cruisinon2]

On 3/17/2018 at 3:21 AM, Guitarmaniac64 said:

I find it very doubtful that they re captured or redid some of their existing IR's with EQ,Comp,Saturation etc using Daw plugins (Like Fremen does) to make a special sounding IR just for a preset pack.

And you base this conclusion on what exactly? Because only Fremen The Magnificent could possibly undertake such a Herculean task? Ugh....

[cruisinon2]

On 3/17/2018 at 2:43 PM, soundog said:

I prefer to take them at their word rather than waste my time doing a "a regular MD5 file cheksum."

 

You don't know what your missing man... if I don't have at least one MD5 file checksum with my first cup of coffee, my whole day is gonna suck. :)

[abaxe]

I have what I've label the "Heavy's and Classics" package. I think they sound great and they're not standard amp cab IRs,  they're custom IRs... Since I don't know all the ins and outs of IRs and IR tweaking, these are great for me. I think they sound awesome and I also have Ownhammer IRs and love them too... just sayin'

[soundog]

2 hours ago, cruisinon2 said:

You don't know what your missing man... if I don't have at least one MD5 file checksum with my first cup of coffee, my whole day is gonna suck. :)

Coffee always helps me with my morning checksum....gets me moving!

[Guitarmaniac64]

On 2018-03-17 at 7:43 PM, soundog said:

O ye of little faith. 

3 Sigma responded to this very question (do these Helix collections use new IRs or just something repackaged?) in another thread:

"3 Sigma here. Just wanted to chime in to clear up any confusion about the IR's. The IR's are new and exclusive to each pack and are not renamed versions of other cabs from the library. It takes me about 10 minutes to make new cabinets these days so not a huge time investment :) All upcoming packs will have their own IR's also. The only overlap there will be is we are releasing these and all future preset packs for basically every software and hardware amp sim and the IR's will be the same in those. Ie Hi Gain Essentials for Helix and Hi Gain Essentials for Guitar Rig will both ship with the same HG412 cab. Hope this helps!"

I prefer to take them at their word rather than waste my time doing a "a regular MD5 file cheksum."

Bottom line .... they sound great to me.

Hmm yeah a checksum dont long either these days but how many would do that?

Especially after this messeage?

I say NOBODY so they ride pretty safe

Anyway you can take any IR you like even freewares as there are some really good ones out there and further tweak it with EQ Comp even the Multicomp to get you where you want sonically 

[Guitarmaniac64]

On 2018-03-19 at 2:07 AM, cruisinon2 said:

And you base this conclusion on what exactly? Because only Fremen The Magnificent could possibly undertake such a Herculean task? Ugh....

Just that i am old enough and have gained lots of experience over the years (i am almost 60 years old) to NOT TRUST anyone who wants to make money DUH!!

Especially with things that is hard to prove

And i dont really say Fremen is magnificent did i?

No i didn't

I just mention the way he capture IR's 

I should have used "Clark Kent" from ML Soundlab instead as thats what most people got this info from in the first place.

 

[cruisinon2]

12 minutes ago, Guitarmaniac64 said:

Just that i am old enough and have gained lots of experience over the years (i am almost 60 years old) to NOT TRUST anyone who wants to make money DUH!!

Especially with things that is hard to prove

Well that's it then, I'm done buying stuff as clearly no one, anywhere, could possibly be on the level. Of course that means that Fremen The Great cannot be trusted either, after all he's selling stuff too, isn't he? Such a shame you were robbed like that..

Gotta go... places to go, checksums to do. 

[Guitarmaniac64]

7 minutes ago, cruisinon2 said:

Well that's it then, I'm done buying stuff as clearly no one, anywhere, could possibly be on the level. Of course that means that Fremen The Great cannot be trusted either, after all he's selling stuff too, isn't he? Such a shame you were robbed like that..

Gotta go... places to go, checksums to do. 

Not really funny but i did buy a preset some time ago it had an IR named something like Marshall bla bla after i loaded it in Helix it said something totally different Helix like TDR bla bla (It did belong to Fremen) so yeah basically "some" people steal IR from others rename them and then sell it.

 

So yeah dont trust anyone

I am done here hope you all wake up some day but i guess not.

[jonandtice]

On 3/16/2018 at 10:53 AM, soundog said:

I ordered the Vintage pack when it came out to check it out. It has become one of my "go to" collections when recording because the presets have excellent, round tone. The IRs were custom made for the Helix amps used, and I could tell they were well designed. The presets themselves focus on useful tones rather than using lots of effects. The only negative I encountered were that many of the presets (especially the cleans) had one or two EQ blocks before the amp, which I assume were there to adjust for guitar tone. They were set much too bright for my guitar. I turned them off and bingo, there was the tone I expected.

 

I ordered the Boutique Classic pack and also found the clean and pushed presets to be too bright but if I turn them off it then sounds like I threw a blanket over the speakers (I'm using headphones though).  Even though I think they are too bright it isn't that bad, it just makes my humbucker PRS sound like a single coil Tele.  It sounds OK in my headphones and would probably sound great in a recorded mix too but I know if I try to use them with the PA at my church it will be supper harsh.  I haven't played around with the eq settings yet but I wish the manual would cover the purpose of the EQ blocks and give suggestions on adjusting.

[jbuhajla]

I tried the boutique pack. I had time to play around with the Lonestar preset. I have never used parametric EQ in any of my presets before because I never used any EQ in any of my "real" guitar rigs in the past. So when I first loaded their preset I bypassed everything except for the amp and IR as I usually do. It sounded pretty good, no better than my go to Lonestar preset. Then I turned on one of the EQs before the amp and WOW. I got the strat sparkle and chime I have been chasing for a while, so now I will start playing around with that in various places in my signal chain while tweaking some of the parameters. And...I really like the IRs that were provided with the preset pack. 

 

So for $15, I got some nice sounding presets, really good sounding/feeling IRs, and learned what a parametric EQ can do for my tone. 

[jonandtice]

I got an email response from 3SA regarding the EQ blocks.

Hey Jonathan,

 

The EQ blocks before the amps are there for several reasons. Software amps suffer from poorly designed input sections which makes them sound bad and unresponsive to playing dynamics. The EQ blocks first and foremost are there to correct this. You will notice if you turn off the blocks while playing power chords on a crunch or hi gain setting that the low end distorts the amp in an unflattering flabby way. For the cleans and pushed presets they are also meant to provide optimal shaping. Last as you mentioned, they are there to dial in the perfect frequency and dynamic response for your particular guitar. Since these blocks are before the amp, when distortion is on they will have little effect to the overall tone shape, but a significant influence on overall clarity of the instrument. Overall brightness of the presets should be adjusted on the actual amp or by using a darker impulse ( position 3,4, or 5). With cleans you can also adjust the overall shape with the EQ blocks before the amp. Hope this helps!

 

Jason Shaw

3 Sigma Audio Customer Service

www.3sigmaaudio.com

 

Hide quoted text

 

On Thu, Mar 22, 2018 at 8:34 AM, Jonathan Tice <jonandtice@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello,
 

I recently purchased the Boutique Classics Helix collection and was wondering if I could get an explanation of the purpose of the EQ blocks, especially for the Clean and Pushed presets.  I wish this was covered in the manual that comes with the preset pack.  Are the blocks meant to compensate for different guitars (meaning I should adjust to taste) or are they intended to be an integral part of the tone?  The presets are all too bright to my tastes.
 

Thanks,
 

- Jonathan

 

[TRENDKILLCFH333]

I bought them all over the weekend - even the bass presets so my bassist can use them for recording.  

 

As I was downloading them I was thinking - why?  I can just build these myself, but then thought - maybe I can use some presets created from a different approach/different way of thinking - and this might give me some ideas for some of my own presets.  They did provide some new insight on building presets.  I previously thought it was better to put delays and reverbs before IR's - treating the signal path the same as 4CM.  But NO - they sound way better after the IR's.  Going to have to edit some of my other presets after learning this.  

 

I'm not too crazy about the High Gain or Modern Essentials.  I prefer a scooped metal tone and every preset will require an additional EQ, which really isn't a big deal.  But it did open my eyes to setting up these differently and the different tone setups available from the same amp.  They will be a great  launching pad for my own new presets.  

 

The Vintage Classic, Boutique Classic and Mid Gain Monsters are my favorite among them all.  Superb clean tones and OD tones!  This is one area where I lack in patience - I can create a metal tone with no issue, but I lack the patience to experiment with different clean/OD tones.  Now I don't have to!   Very happy with all the tones in these 3 packages.  

 

One bonus is that there are many IR's too choose from for each package.  I prefer the #3 position as it's warmer in every style.  

 

Overall, glad I made the purchase and I look forward to jamming more on them tonight.  

 

[cryan2]

These things are awesome!! I have the vintage and mid gain. Best presets and impulses I have found!

[soundog]

On 3/23/2018 at 7:17 AM, jonandtice said:

I got an email response from 3SA regarding the EQ blocks.....

 

 

Thanks @jonandtice for sharing this info. I wasn't sure how to best use the pre-amp EQ blocks, as I hadn't encountered them used like that before, but am now finding them quite useful. I've really been enjoying the Vintage collection, so now think I'll order the Boutique collection. I appreciate 3 Sigma's focus on usable amp/IR tones rather than trying to duplicate artist/song tones....

[jbuhajla]

1 hour ago, soundog said:

 

Thanks @jonandtice for sharing this info. I wasn't sure how to best use the pre-amp EQ blocks, as I hadn't encountered them used like that before, but am now finding them quite useful. I've really been enjoying the Vintage collection, so now think I'll order the Boutique collection. I appreciate 3 Sigma's focus on usable amp/IR tones rather than trying to duplicate artist/song tones....

The boutique collection is beautimous. 

[Johnny2Shoes]

On 18/03/2018 at 10:59 PM, mocella said:

I tried out the Modern Essentials and Hi Gain Essentials, and have only gotten to mess around a bit with them so far - liking what I've heard so far.  My only "complaint"/feedback is that each amp is 4 separate presets and they didn't include a snapshot type preset with all 4 rolled into one (as is the case with Glenn's presets, for example).

 

Hey L6 fam,  I'm thinking about pull the trigger on one of these bad boys but just one for now either the Modern or High Gain essentials pack.  Any advice for which you'd recommend of the 2 if you had to pick one over the other?

 

Bit of back ground - 

 

I go for an almost metal (same gain structure) but without the heavy scooping in trying to achieve a modern prog sound.  (this is a bad example - lead tone more than the comping tone, but with less highs and a little more mids)  Don't have a recording of myself sorry. But it should give you guys an idea

 I currently achieve my version of high gain - crunch tones with the Angl meteor, gain assigned to exp pedal, maxed for lead min for crunch. Fender twin for straight clean tones.  Both have the Engl XXL v30 cab mic-AKGC414 3" distance low cut 80Hz High cut- 5.0-6.0 kHz.  This was the most usable cab IMO in HD500X and when I went to helix found it to be the same.  I've been happy with it.

It does a good job.

 

With the bundles I don't need or want the presets, I'm just after the IR's.  I had a listen to Paul Glover's vid demo's and on this one I hands down love the 3SA IR's

The 3 sigma Audio (3SA) samples online sound a little more 3 dimensional like a double tracked guitar.  It adds some harmonic content that people rave on as being the difference between the Fractal AXE sound compared to the Line 6 sounds. To get an IR that has those sweet harmonic overtones would be awesome.

 

However, on this one though in the mix I was leaning more towards the helix cab.  He plays the new cabs and the 3SA and the 3SA sounded good but with too much scooping and high end.  the HX sounded great for the most part

I don't want to double up or buy something I won't use.  I like the Engl HX cab and without trying the 3SA version I won't know how much better it is with my set up without trying it.  Will I get the same harmonic overtones I hear in Paul Glover's high gain samples?  I've liked the High Gain Essentials samples but think they may have to much high content in a mix and then think that getting the Modern Essentials which roll the highs off a little with more mid presence to have the 3SA version of the ENGL, is doubling up what the HX cab already does.  I just haven't seen many samples of the ENGL cab or amp.

 

So getting different IR's to the ENGL I commonly use may open up amp models that I wrote off in the first place, because the 3SA IR makes it sound so much better (at least in the online demos).

 

Anyway that's my thought process.  The main Q is if you had to pick one to start of the 2 would you have picked the High Gain or Modern and why?

 

After a little further reading I'm also confused about what you actually get in the helix pack.  Do you get IR's for the stated CABs i.e. Modern=Archon, Friedman, ENGL etc or do you get presets to emulate with only the variations of one CAB (x2 solidstate and tube driven) with different mic placements?

 

Thanks in advance =)

-J2S-

[cruisinon2]

1 hour ago, Johnny2Shoes said:

I won't know how much better it is with my set up without trying it.

 

You've answered your own question... there is but one way to find out if you'll like any IR...roll the dice and buy it.

 

Look at it this way... those 3 Sigma packs are what, 15 bucks? Down at your local watering hole that's 2 beers, with a tip. You dumped $1500 on Helix... it's 1%, lol... go ahead and splurge.  ;)

[Johnny2Shoes]

52 minutes ago, cruisinon2 said:

 

You've answered your own question... there is but one way to find out if you'll like any IR...roll the dice and buy it.

 

Look at it this way... those 3 Sigma packs are what, 15 bucks? Down at your local watering hole that's 2 beers, with a tip. You dumped $1500 on Helix... it's 1%, lol... go ahead and splurge.  ;)

I understand you're trying to help but I don't find these sorts of comments helpful.  The cost is more in Australia with ridiculous shipping prices (for the helix i mean) and the exchange rate.  When I've splurged $3000 I don't want to splurge more to have more options I wouldn't use.

 

Also I was specifically asking Mocella, hence quoting him or anyone else who has purchased both packs to let me know if they had to pick one which one would it be and why they like it more than the other.  I'm asking for opinions from those who have experienced both to inform a better purchase.  And I'm only asking in this forum because in this thread there are those who have purchased both.

 

Being told I'll only know once I get it myself, well ....  Cartesian Rationalism at large here as that's true of all experience even if you're in the same room listening to the same stuff.

 

It's counter productive to the question that was asked. I'm not asking which they think I'd like, rather, which product the people who have purchased both, preferred of the 2.  Hoping to get answer from Mocella =)
 

P.S. I'm not trying to pick a forum fight - just wanting an answer to my question =)

[soundog]

15 hours ago, Johnny2Shoes said:

The 3 sigma Audio (3SA) samples online sound a little more 3 dimensional like a double tracked guitar.

 

Use caution here, because 3SA does use double-tracked guitar on a lot of their online demos. Listen with headphones and its pretty obvious, but they are only trying to represent what you can get in a studio situation.

[mocella]

On 4/25/2018 at 9:56 PM, Johnny2Shoes said:

I understand you're trying to help but I don't find these sorts of comments helpful.  The cost is more in Australia with ridiculous shipping prices (for the helix i mean) and the exchange rate.  When I've splurged $3000 I don't want to splurge more to have more options I wouldn't use.

 

Also I was specifically asking Mocella, hence quoting him or anyone else who has purchased both packs to let me know if they had to pick one which one would it be and why they like it more than the other.  I'm asking for opinions from those who have experienced both to inform a better purchase.  And I'm only asking in this forum because in this thread there are those who have purchased both.

 

Being told I'll only know once I get it myself, well ....  Cartesian Rationalism at large here as that's true of all experience even if you're in the same room listening to the same stuff.

 

It's counter productive to the question that was asked. I'm not asking which they think I'd like, rather, which product the people who have purchased both, preferred of the 2.  Hoping to get answer from Mocella =)
 

P.S. I'm not trying to pick a forum fight - just wanting an answer to my question =)

 

Of the two, I'd lean toward Modern Essentials for the type of sound I prefer.  I play mostly 80s Metallica type stuff, so that's the general tone I'm after.  I enjoy the Soldano and Frideman presets mainly, the others don't do a lot for me. 

 

For reference, in my Glenn presets, I almost always gravitate toward the Splawn S Comp from his High Gain collection.  That one preset basically made the Helix really work for me. 

[Johnny2Shoes]

44 minutes ago, mocella said:

 

Of the two, I'd lean toward Modern Essentials for the type of sound I prefer.  I play mostly 80s Metallica type stuff, so that's the general tone I'm after.  I enjoy the Soldano and Frideman presets mainly, the others don't do a lot for me. 

 

For reference, in my Glenn presets, I almost always gravitate toward the Splawn S Comp from his High Gain collection.  That one preset basically made the Helix really work for me. 

Thanks Mocella.  That's a great help =)

[litesnsirens]

I went down the IR rabbit hole, bought lots of them, used them, liked them then climbed my way back out and went back to the stock cabs.  I really don’t think there’s anything you can achieve with an IR that you can’t achieve with the stock cabs.   Except for the electric to acoustic IRs that 3 sigma put out I use those for acoustic simulation patches, there’s no stock cab that will do that for you but that’s another topic altogether.  You could argue that once you find your IR that you love it’s quick to find and load, but you still have to find it and that’s a lot of work.  Probably the same amount of work as auditioning all the various stock cabs with all the different mics at all the various distances.  Then you can go dual cabs given you exponentially more options.  

 

Part of my personal stock cab revival was that I found the workflow made more sense and I could learn while tweaking which would give me an edge in future experimentation.  I found with IRs it was load and try, load and try etc etc.  At least while I’m spending time changing mics and distances I can do all that with the same cab loaded and I can learn how the different mics sound at different distances.  Maybe, I’m wrong it just seems to make more sense to me... it sticks in my head better and that might just be because I can see what it is I’m doing where as with the IRs it’s all these cryptic IR names where each one tries to fit in the name the speaker, the cab, the mic the distance the axis into the name. 

[soundog]

Makes perfect sense, @litesnsirens....

[jw1232]

Vintage Collection: No complaints at all. Very usable. Thanks 3 Sigma Audio for the tip to adjust brightness at Amp and/or Impulse. I do have to say, people who are complaining about getting 20 usable presets, 20 IR's to put in there 1600.00 Dollar Helix for 15 bucks are insane. 3 Sigma just saved me hours upon hours of tweaking when I should be playing. 

[drb1982]

Does anyone know what mic is what with their IRs? They just said 1a or 1b etc. How do I tell which one is the SM57, etc? Thanks!

[bassbene]

33 minutes ago, drb1982 said:

Does anyone know what mic is what with their IRs? They just said 1a or 1b etc. How do I tell which one is the SM57, etc? Thanks!

A and B indicates which poweramp was used. A tube amp (A, Peavey 5150) or a solid state amp (B). The mics are listed in a document attached to the files.

 

I can not resist to end with an annoying question: Does it matter? When it sounds good, it sounds good. No matter what the mic was that capture the IR that made the sound good ;)