HX Effects freezes

[Phil110567]

 

After powering up the unit, it froze to the last saved situation. The buttons didn't work anymore.

So it's not possible to go switch to and from  BANK/PEDAL modes.

I'm in version 2.60

I solved the frozen state by switching off and on, while pressing the 2 bottom-right buttons.

It seems it resets the presets to the factory presets.

So I lost the presets.

It seems at a given moment a preset was corrupted preventing the unit to work properly.

As far as I backup my presets regularly, this should not be a real problem.

But I'm afraid of what would happens during a gig when I don't have a PC to restore backups ? 

Do some of you have any knowledge of what to do OR not do to avoid this frozen state ?

 

[cruisinon2]

2 hours ago, Phil110567 said:

Do some of you have any knowledge of what to do OR not do to avoid this frozen state ?

 

 

Well it sounds like you've already come the factory reset, and that's about the only "user serviceable" thing there is to do. Hopefully it was a one-time hiccup...but there really isn't anything you can do to guarantee that it'll never happen again. It's a computer... sooner or later, they all freeze up. 

[codamedia]

I've never had this happen... and hope it never does on a gig.

 

Pure speculation, but I believe the patch you are on when it freezes is the corrupt one... and the problem is that when the system boots, it always loads the latest patch... which in this case is corrupt. There are boot up procedures to clear patches, restore factory etc... but yes, that's the end of your night as you know it.

 

If my hunch is correct, what we could use is a boot option that "clears the existing patch"... rather than all patches. Or a boot option that "always boots to patch #1" that we can choose to leave blank if we are really concerned. I can get by without one patch...and I can always store backups on the unit itself. 

 

As for what causes it... your guess is as good as mine. What makes up your patch? Is it DSP heavy or does it use a lot of snapshot changes? Do you have a copy from HX Edit you can share? 

 

With the list of users that have the HX freeze, it would be interesting to see if there is something in common .... Once the problem can be reproduced, it can be avoided and better yet, fixed by L6.

[Phil110567]

 

29 minutes ago, cruisinon2 said:

It's a computer... sooner or later, they all freeze up. 

 

Yes, you're right.

 

23 minutes ago, codamedia said:

Iand the problem is that when the system boots, it always loads the latest patch...

 

 

Yes, this is the problem. As the buttons are not active, it's not possible to change patch so I remain with the problem.

 

Yes, it would be nice to have some kind of emergency workaround providing access to an empty patch allowing to program a reverb a delay and a drive pedal.

[phil_m]

Have you opened a support ticket? You shouldn't be having any issues with freezing. I've only ever mine freeze when I was using doing some things with a beta version of an HX Edit release, never while just under normal operation.

[DunedinDragon]

I've had intermittent freezes on both of my Helix units, but it was during the boot up process.  Never when it was up and running.  When it stalls during bootup I just power cycle it and it comes up.  I assume it probably has something to do with the connections I have to the laptop or other equipment causing the bootup problems.  It's never occurred when it's been disconnected from everything.

[codamedia]

2 hours ago, Phil110567 said:

Yes, this is the problem. As the buttons are not active, it's not possible to change patch so I remain with the problem.

 

Out of curiosity, what was in that patch... and how complex was it (ie: snaphots changes, instant commands, ext controllers, etc...)

 

1 hour ago, DunedinDragon said:

I assume it probably has something to do with the connections I have to the laptop or other equipment causing the bootup problems. 

 

That's a good "gotcha" to watch for. The one time I had my HD500 go into a repetitive boot cycle it stopped (and booted normally) once I unplugged my Variax. 

 

@Phil110567... Are you connected to any other devices beyond a guitar and amp when this happened? 

 

[Phil110567]

THank you all for interest

 

@phil_m I will open a ticket

 

@codameid, @DunedinDragon

Nothing special in the patch. Multi-purpose preset with basic delay and reverb. I was experimenting with drive pedals

Maybe delay and reverb lines where separated. . No fxloop, direct in the amp input.

 

No usb connected.only my guitar. no other pedal.

 

 

 

[mbrooks0711]

This same thing has happened to me 5 times in the last 2 days! I've opened a ticket already, waiting to hear back.

 

I've tried everything to isolate which variable it is causing it, but no matter what I try it seems to brick itself. I was building the patch I want in HX Effects, then the problem started. I'll try a full reset, restore, then build my patch all on the unit, but that basically undoes the main functionality of HX Edit itself.

[Phil110567]

No

42 minutes ago, mbrooks0711 said:

This same thing has happened to me 5 times in the last 2 days! I've opened a ticket already, waiting to hear back.

 

I've tried everything to isolate which variable it is causing it, but no matter what I try it seems to brick itself. I was building the patch I want in HX Effects, then the problem started. I'll try a full reset, restore, then build my patch all on the unit, but that basically undoes the main functionality of HX Edit itself.

 

Do you mean it happened when you were in HX edit ???

[mbrooks0711]

It happened after I used the unit with HX Edit. If it's something wrong on the HX Edit side, that's a vicious circle you know; it crashes so you use HX Edit to restore it then it crashes so you've got to use HX Edit to restore it...

 

Maybe I'll do a hard reset then leave it with only the factory presets and see if it repeats it then.

[cruisinon2]

1 hour ago, mbrooks0711 said:

It happened after I used the unit with HX Edit. If it's something wrong on the HX Edit side, that's a vicious circle you know; it crashes so you use HX Edit to restore it then it crashes so you've got to use HX Edit to restore it...

 

Maybe I'll do a hard reset then leave it with only the factory presets and see if it repeats it then.

 

There's obviously an issue, but I doubt that the edit software is responsible,  because it services multiple devices...I think there'd be a whole lot more bricked units if HX Edit was somehow "infecting" the hardware. 

[mbrooks0711]

51 minutes ago, cruisinon2 said:

 

There's obviously an issue, but I doubt that the edit software is responsible,  because it services multiple devices...I think there'd be a whole lot more bricked units if HX Edit was somehow "infecting" the hardware. 

 

This is my first rodeo with having an issue, so I don't know. When I get home I'll restore from the last known good backup I have, then build the patch I want via the hardware only. I saw the note about how downloading other's patches could cause issues. I wasn't getting a whole patch, but just a single effect block. I thought that may be the issue, so I restored from last known good backup, then built the patch in edit one piece at a time. The issue still persisted.

[spikey]

I could be just wrong (it happens), but every time I think about buying one of these I come across another thread here on a bricked unit for whatever reason.

 

Sure many have had no issues "yet", but after reading about problems from people on these units over several months it is becoming too consistent for me to "buy in", enough so that I think it needs a QA dept redo. Why are the multiple resets needed? And please, don't hand me (even if its possible) the "its a computer so its gonna happen" excuse,  because to me its more a code instability problem. Something is causing this and it is not all the user's fault for hitting certain buttons in a sequence, turning it off wrong, etc etc... These issues are/should be beta tested overs months before ever being released to the GP. Yep, nothings perfect and I get that, but still. No, I'm not trying to be condescending when I say these things, but from reading the threads over time here, something is causing too many (in my opinion) of these units to fail. So what is it? 

[phil_m]

20 hours ago, spikey said:

I could be just wrong (it happens), but every time I think about buying one of these I come across another thread here on a bricked unit for whatever reason.

 

Sure many have had no issues "yet", but after reading about problems from people on these units over several months it is becoming too consistent for me to "buy in", enough so that I think it needs a QA dept redo. Why are the multiple resets needed? And please, don't hand me (even if its possible) the "its a computer so its gonna happen" excuse,  because to me its more a code instability problem. Something is causing this and it is not all the user's fault for hitting certain buttons in a sequence, turning it off wrong, etc etc... These issues are/should be beta tested overs months before ever being released to the GP. Yep, nothings perfect and I get that, but still. No, I'm not trying to be condescending when I say these things, but from reading the threads over time here, something is causing too many (in my opinion) of these units to fail. So what is it? 

 

I think there’s simply way more HX Effects units on the street compared to the Helix units. The HX is being sold to a much larger segment of the market (the traditional pedalboard market). It just goes to reason that the more overall units that are out there, the more overall problems there will be. As far the crashing issue, it doesn’t really seem all that prevalent to me. I’ve maybe seen a dozen reports of it here, on the TGP and in the two Facebook groups combined. The number of users on Facebook dwarfs the number here and on TGP. The combined Helix group has over 16000 members and the dedicated HX group has over 1000 members.

[spikey]

I guess it depends on the individual's perception of whats an acceptable failure rate percentage.

In other words, If I had one and it was bricked, my level of perception on what was an acceptable percentage would be much lower...

Ya know its funny, a company won't ever admit that accidents of the employee can and will happen, they only talk about reducing them to ZERO.

However, when they make a product and a certain percentage of them fail, they always seem to blame that on the numbers sold... ; )

[codamedia]

On 9/16/2018 at 8:12 AM, spikey said:

Ya know its funny, a company won't ever admit that accidents of the employee can and will happen, they only talk about reducing them to ZERO.

However, when they make a product and a certain percentage of them fail, they always seem to blame that on the numbers sold... ; )

 

Yes... the original release of these units (the noisy ones) are the result of somebody screwing up. There are out of spec parts so that means it was either designed that way, written that way, or manufactured that way. Somebody screwed up even if it is five company's removed and a box of caps or resistors got mislabeled. 

 

As for the "bricking".... it terrifies me to read some of these posts. My HX Effects has been great... no issues at all. But I suspect all of my confidence would go out the window should it leave me high and dry at a gig. I run a redundant system, I can survive without it, but that's not the point. 

[soundog]

I encountered the HFX Bricking yesterday while tweaking some presets for a solo gig while using HX Edit. I'm running V2.60. I'm not exactly sure when the bricking happened, but 1) I suddenly lost all communication between HX Edit and the unit and 2) all buttons and switches on the unit became unresponsive. 

 

I reinstalled the firmware (Updater ran OK via the same USB cable). After a reboot, the unit was still bricked. I did a full factory restore and everything worked normally. I reloaded my last backup (global, IR, presets) and everything worked again but I was careful to avoid all of my most recent patch creations for fear one might would brick the unit again. The unit behaved through the gig (using only earlier presets) but I was half expecting it to shut down. This is not a good thing....

 

Has root cause been determined?

 

Has there been any progress towards a fix?

 

Does this only effect some units, or could it happen to anyone if a certain sequence of events are replicated?

 

[Phil110567]

@soundog : sorry for you.

For the moment it happened only once to me.

Well, I'm not sure if they figured out the cause of problem yet

 

 

 

 

[soundog]

Phil -- I'm very glad it only happened once to you. I'll continue experimenting to see if I can figure out what the caused this. As far as I know (and I'm hopeful that) the bricking might only occur when editing/saving new patches. I suspect it is the result of some kind of  RAM corruption. An while it may be a rare event, its happened to me twice.

[mbrooks0711]

Well, mine worked fine for about 10 days, then started bricking itself again. This time, I left all factory presets in place (after a full system reset), made up the patch on the unit on 17A, and haven't plugged it into the computer since the last time it gave me problems. This is getting frustrating; I love the unit, but this needs to be fixed/replaced/debugged or I'm going to be left SOL at a gig. 

[soundog]

@mbrooks0711 - did your bricking happen a) while you were simply playing through the unit, or b) right after you were doing edits and saves? And, if a), did it seem to happen right after invoking a specific patch (like 17A)? 

 

This is tricky to troubleshoot because its intermittent. Part of me thinks its either a corrupt preset issue or a RAM/memory issue. A full reset (rewrite entire memory with factory patches) seems to fix everything. So .... does the problem occur right after saving a preset, or out of the blue (no editing or saving, just using)?

 

In my case bricking happened when I was doing edits and saves and controller assignments for a gig, which made me think the memory was somehow being corrupted during a save. But it could also have been due to some specific combo of parameters, blocks, and/or assignments.

 

 I notice that the following 2.60 Release Notes mention the following fixes for the HX Effects that involved bricking related to block parameters and assignments:

 

* If a controller is assigned to a Modulation > Pattern Trem block parameter and the min value is greater than the max value, moving the controller can cause HX Effects to freeze — FIXED
    
* Assigning 11 parameters to a single controller, copying/pasting the block, and then moving the controller can cause HX Effects to freeze — FIXED

 

* If a block has a dual-state parameter assigned to a different footswitch, copying and pasting the block to another switch can fail to display white controller nodes and sometimes may freeze the UI — FIXED
 

 

 

[mbrooks0711]

On 9/26/2018 at 10:27 AM, soundog said:

@mbrooks0711 - did your bricking happen a) while you were simply playing through the unit, or b) right after you were doing edits and saves? And, if a), did it seem to happen right after invoking a specific patch (like 17A)? 

 

This is tricky to troubleshoot because its intermittent. Part of me thinks its either a corrupt preset issue or a RAM/memory issue. A full reset (rewrite entire memory with factory patches) seems to fix everything. So .... does the problem occur right after saving a preset, or out of the blue (no editing or saving, just using)?

 

In my case bricking happened when I was doing edits and saves and controller assignments for a gig, which made me think the memory was somehow being corrupted during a save. But it could also have been due to some specific combo of parameters, blocks, and/or assignments.

 

 I notice that the following 2.60 Release Notes mention the following fixes for the HX Effects that involved bricking related to block parameters and assignments:

 

* If a controller is assigned to a Modulation > Pattern Trem block parameter and the min value is greater than the max value, moving the controller can cause HX Effects to freeze — FIXED
    
* Assigning 11 parameters to a single controller, copying/pasting the block, and then moving the controller can cause HX Effects to freeze — FIXED

 

* If a block has a dual-state parameter assigned to a different footswitch, copying and pasting the block to another switch can fail to display white controller nodes and sometimes may freeze the UI — FIXED

 

 

It's upon bootup, but it has happened both right after a specific patch and after 1-8 days of working fine. Editing everything/anything I want on the unit doesn't affect the real time operation. It's just once I save, play it for a while, then come back the next day, the switches stop responding. At first I thought it had something to do with HX Edit, so I created my preset manually this time off of a fresh factory reset. It worked fine for 8 days and now it's back to doing the exact same thing. I am using more features than I ever have before in the signal chain (an expression controller, moving parameters with snapshots, renaming snapshots, changing color rings, etc.) but thats because I'm trying to trust the HX effects to be my only effects solution. Those features are EXACTLY what makes me want to use it, but if it really can't handle everything the feature sheet says it can, I'll have to find some other product(s) that will. I freaking love this effect, but the idea of showing up to a gig and having to rebuild everything I've worked on is terrifying. 

[Phil110567]

@mbrooks0711

 

This is exactly what happened on my side.

At boot, the unit shows the last situation. But nothing actually work. switches don't work.

 

Same feeling also. The HX effects is all that I need (and much more actually).

 

 

 

 

[soundog]

This is troubling. There doesn't seem to be a common cause we can pin down right now. The effect is the same though, and if you're at a gig when the unit freezes, you're hosed.

 

Let's continue to report in here if you get a freeze. If it happens to me again I'm filling in a ticket to see if I can get an exchange or some resolution. 

[codamedia]

1 hour ago, soundog said:

Let's continue to report in here if you get a freeze. If it happens to me again I'm filling in a ticket to see if I can get an exchange or some resolution. 

 

Although I have never had the freeze problem (knock on wood... big gig tonight) I'd be happy to help in the troubleshooting. If you (or anyone) finds a patch that is causing grief, try and share it here... either with an HX edit patch export, or manually providing some settings. I'd be more than happy to test a troubling patch or settings on my machine to see if we can start to find any consistency. 

 

[ricky50]

On 9/28/2018 at 12:58 PM, mbrooks0711 said:

 

It's upon bootup, but it has happened both right after a specific patch and after 1-8 days of working fine. Editing everything/anything I want on the unit doesn't affect the real time operation. It's just once I save, play it for a while, then come back the next day, the switches stop responding. At first I thought it had something to do with HX Edit, so I created my preset manually this time off of a fresh factory reset. It worked fine for 8 days and now it's back to doing the exact same thing. I am using more features than I ever have before in the signal chain (an expression controller, moving parameters with snapshots, renaming snapshots, changing color rings, etc.) but thats because I'm trying to trust the HX effects to be my only effects solution. Those features are EXACTLY what makes me want to use it, but if it really can't handle everything the feature sheet says it can, I'll have to find some other product(s) that will. I freaking love this effect, but the idea of showing up to a gig and having to rebuild everything I've worked on is terrifying. 

 

I’ve had exactly the same problem. It started a few weeks ago and I found a number of similar reports online when I was trying to find out what was happening. I contacted Line 6 at the time and opened a ticket but because it was an intermittent problem that went away after a factory reset I left it at the time thinking it was now ok. The problem is now back and this time it’s much more frequent.  I can go a week without any difficulty but without any reason and usually on startup it will freeze and none of the switches will work. If I reboot while holding footswitches 4 and 5 it resets the globals only and this usually fixes it but not always and that’s the main problem because the only fix at that point is a a full factory reset and that wipes out all my presets. I have my presets saved and can reload them but I need my PC with HX Edit to do that and that option is not available to me when I’m gigging. Since this recent change in behaviour my last few gigs have been a challenge because I just don’t know if it’s going to freeze on me during the gig. I’ve stripped my presets down to only the ones I use on a gig and have completely rewritten them from scratch in case one of the files was corrupted. I don’t add or edit anything on a gig day just in case. I’m now having to carry my old Boss MS 3 as a backup.  Basically this is just not sustainable. The HX is a brilliant wee unit - it does everything I need in such a clever way and sounds terrific but if I can’t rely on it I think I’m going to have to reluctantly give it up until Line 6 manage to debug what is still clearly very buggy software. I will open another ticket and report back. 

[spikey]

Anyone know how many manufacturing plants make this unit? Even if it's not more than one plant, then are they working from the same parts manufacturer, or multiple ones? 

[codamedia]

39 minutes ago, spikey said:

Anyone know how many manufacturing plants make this unit? Even if it's not more than one plant, then are they working from the same parts manufacturer, or multiple ones? 

 

That is worth questioning. The HELIX and HX Effects will share software, I can't see it being too much different. If the Helix is not locking up or failing at a similar rate that would point toward a hardware problem. For example, a single batch of faulty filter caps that cost 2 cents can wreak havoc on a thousand units in a heartbeat.

[spikey]

Of course, all this is pure speculation at this point until more definitive answers show up, but if there are different hardware manufacturers sending parts it could be that certain pieces of the hardware can't play well with certain parts of the software/code written for HX, or vice versa, or both.  

 

Edited: Let me say it before someone else does... Or that's not the issue at all... ; )

 

 

lol

[freakwaves]

Having this issue too. 3rd time in 3 days... just got the HX & doing some serious preset building and it's very disheartening to loose all my progress. Firmware 2.60. Using the Mac editor to edit a preset and the unit bricks all of a sudden. Afterwards (disconnected from USB) the unit gets through boot but bricks again on first interaction, clearing all presets 'fixes' the unit.

 

==EDIT==

 

Just realised I can export the presets without double click/ opening them in the editor sidebar! Yass, was able to get them all off the unit, reset, and load them back on!

[soundog]

I've been handling preset building and editing with kid's gloves. My theory is that odd/specific combinations of blocks or parameters might result in patches that can brick the HXFX. So .... I always have backups of my entire global setup and all presets, and I never edit close to show time (I got burned by that once before). Once I think a patch is "clean" I name it using all caps. New patches aren't added to the clean list until I'm convinced they're stable. Suspect patches get deleted and written over by blank clean ones. Also, when building patches, I save and reboot often. Lots of extra work for sure, but at least I haven't had my HXFX brick at a gig. Yet....

[hoodcreeper]

Chalk up another user with freezing issues.  Both on boot up a couple times and now frequent while editing with Mac edit.  I’ve also lost connection to Mac several time while maintaining functionality of pedal.  A couple times lost connection with Mac and pedal bricked.  Bought second hand...latest software, only had a week.  Love this thing but no way it’s going to a gig....bummed.

 

just did a factory reset...testing now. 

[gbprs1]

Yep, same thing just happened to me. Worked fine yesterday, now it's bricked. This blows. I was using 2.50 with no issues. Upgraded to 2.70  4 days ago, no issues until today. Hopefully I can get this right but count me also as one who is really worried about powering this up at a gig and having this happen. NOT GOOD!

[phil_m]

14 minutes ago, gbprs1 said:

Yep, same thing just happened to me. Worked fine yesterday, now it's bricked. This blows. I was using 2.50 with no issues. Upgraded to 2.70  4 days ago, no issues until today. Hopefully I can get this right but count me also as one who is really worried about powering this up at a gig and having this happen. NOT GOOD!

 

When you say it’d bricked, will it not power up?

[gbprs1]

No, same behavior as described above, unit is on last preset I used, I select another preset with foot-switch, it goes to that preset but gets stuck there, will no longer respond to pressing foot-switches or buttons. I did the reset by holding lower two buttons, which reset the entire unit and erased my presets. Then thankfully I was able to restore from a backup. I have numerous pretty detailed presets with snapshots commands etc and the thought of rebuilding from scratch again was depressing. Luckily the backup worked but.... 

I used to use a TC Electronics G system and there was a well known random freeze called the GREEN SCREEN OF DEATH (essentially a blank green screen and unit would not respond). Only a firmware restore would put things right so I was having to drag my laptop around to gigs just in case. Was hoping that would not be the case with HX Effects but now I'm not sure I trust it.

[phil_m]

3 minutes ago, gbprs1 said:

No, same behavior as described above, unit is on last preset I used, I select another preset with foot-switch, it goes to that preset but gets stuck there, will no longer respond to pressing foot-switches or buttons. I did the reset by holding lower two buttons, which reset the entire unit and erased my presets. Then thankfully I was able to restore from a backup. I have numerous pretty detailed presets with snapshots commands etc and the thought of rebuilding from scratch again was depressing. Luckily the backup worked but.... 

I used to use a TC Electronics G system and there was a well known random freeze called the GREEN SCREEN OF DEATH (essentially a blank green screen and unit would not respond). Only a firmware restore would put things right so I was having to drag my laptop around to gigs just in case. Was hoping that would not be the case with HX Effects but now I'm not sure I trust it.

 

Well, what you’re describing there is the classic symptoms of a corrupted preset... I’m not sure exactly why it happens, but it seems that a preset will cause that every now and then. The best thing to do is overwrite the problematic preset with something else.

[chopin_rock]

Hey, guys 

        I had freezing problems with my HX Effects for 2 months now, and after trying everything someone have ever suggested on the web, I think I have finally found the cause for the freezing (at least in my case scenario).  I am using the HX Effects with an Roland EV5 Expression Pedal, and after I removed it from the chain, and I deleted all the assignments for Expression pedal in the HX Effects , the freezing problem was gone (almost 3 weeks now), and I haven't had any issues since than! So I guess I have to convert the Roland exp. pedal to mono, or buy the original Mission line6 Exp. pedal, so that I can use one! 

 

          I hope I have helped someone out there......

 

       Cheers

[soundog]

Interesting. FYI, I haven't had any problems since my last entry in this thread from Oct 2018. I used MIDI control at every gig. Running two separate mono paths/channels through the HX.

[totsamiyda]

Unfortunately, I ran into the same problem tonight.

 

I edited the preset through HX Edit. I had two lines - on one volume pedal, a looper and a large reverb, on the other - several delays and  big reverbs.

I wanted to switch the speed of one of the delays using a foot switch. Then a similar story happened - all the buttons froze, the sound disappeared, and nothing changed after the reboot.

 

What saved me - after the reboot, the first 2 milliseconds hx effects reacts normally, and MIRACULOUSLY in these 2 seconds I managed to copy another preset to the dangerous preset location. The processor freezes in the "data transfer" status, but after a reboot it turned out that he had rewritten it.

 

I really hope that Line6 will fix this problem, as it turned out, there are a lot of people with such a problem, and this is unacceptable for an expensive device that is positioned as for concerts.