Helix with Headrush 112

[f33dback]

Just got the Headrush 112 for the Helix I bought, all I can say is "mud", is anyone else getting dark sound and muddy sound from their unit?

[rd2rk]

6 hours ago, f33dback said:

Just got the Headrush 112 for the Helix I bought, all I can say is "mud", is anyone else getting dark sound and muddy sound from their unit?

 

Not at all. Unless the tweeter is bad, check elsewhere.

[f33dback]

4 hours ago, rd2rk said:

 

Not at all. Unless the tweeter is bad, check elsewhere.

What do you mean check elsewhere?

[zolko60]

Elswhere, anyway, whatever. Play some music through it, put your ear to the tweeter, check if it works. They sometimess fail.
Headrush FRFR112/AltoTS312 are bass heavy but far from "mud".

 

[f33dback]

Wow, looking for help and all I get is toxic replies...

Thanks Line 6

[zolko60]

What is toxic about the advice of checking if your tweeter works?

[f33dback]

"Go elsewhere".... I would expect on the Line 6 forum that others have used the device, and might have some advice other than "go elsewhere".

Also if you check sweetwater reviews on this device, others have the exact same problem.

[zolko60]

Maybe he did't use the proper word for this situation ? Cool down. If sweetwater reviews are honest and you feel like no way to live with mud, maybe return your Headrush?
What can be done with it using Helix? Use EQ in DSP chain, global EQ, reverse EQ for FOH...
Sometimes lifting it up works, you can also choke its bass reflex vent.

 

[silverhead]

24 minutes ago, f33dback said:

"Go elsewhere".... I would expect on the Line 6 forum that others have used the device, and might have some advice other than "go elsewhere".

Also if you check sweetwater reviews on this device, others have the exact same problem.

I think you're reading too much into the black and white text. I don't think he meant anything other than "look for additional info/help". For instance, have you looked or asked in the Headrush user's forum? Have you explored information about compatibility of connections re: Helix outputs and Headrush inputs (e.g. line vs. mic level; balanced vs unbalanced)?

 

That sort of thing was all he meant. I don't think he was telling you to go away or anything like that. I think it's an over -reaction to call it "toxic".

[mapletop]

i use the headrush mine sounds good.maybe its your patches?mines very clear.id check the tweeter

[rd2rk]

2 hours ago, silverhead said:

I think you're reading too much into the black and white text. I don't think he meant anything other than "look for additional info/help". For instance, have you looked or asked in the Headrush user's forum? Have you explored information about compatibility of connections re: Helix outputs and Headrush inputs (e.g. line vs. mic level; balanced vs unbalanced)?

 

That sort of thing was all he meant. I don't think he was telling you to go away or anything like that. I think it's an over -reaction to call it "toxic".

 

That, and check your signal chain, eq settings, guitar cords, anything you have between your instrument and the Helix. Check Globals to see if the Global EQ is on. On your presets, check the input block Hi-Z setting. Is the first FX block a fuzz? The wrong Hi-Z setting can affect the highs. There's an extensive discussion about that over on Gearpage. IF the tweeter is working, there's no reason that the FRFR112 should sound muddy in and of itself.

[cgar18]

On 12/1/2018 at 8:22 PM, f33dback said:

Just got the Headrush 112 for the Helix I bought, all I can say is "mud", is anyone else getting dark sound and muddy sound from their unit?

If you still are not happy with it may suggest a seymore duncan 170 with a 212 cab.If you have a cab that would be great if not you would have to see if your local music store would let you set one up.Im pretty happy with it the amps sound really good and I can adjust bass mid treble if needed with out touching the helix eq.I have a balckstar 212 and some amps I bypass the cabs and it sous good.

[jonandtice]

I would start by making sure my cabinet/IR block has a low cut on it.  You can also do this with a low cut block, an EQ block, or in the Global EQ but these all have a steeper cutoff curve (which may be a good thing for you).  When I play through floor wedges I find a cut at 140 is what I need, especially when playing with a full band.  Remember, the frequency range of a guitar speaker cabinet is about 100-4k so when using speaker simulation it helps to cut out anything outside those ranges.

Lifting off the floor, as mentioned above, also helps to tighten up the bass response.  If you have it sitting on the floor try sitting it on a foam block or pole mount it.

If your preset sounds good through a pair of good reference headphones it is simply a matter of EQ'ing for the Headrush FRFR.

[zolko60]

It is definetely a matter of EQ'ing your FRFR to be Full Range Full Response. Albeit Global EQ in Helix works for all analog outputs,  so to get similar sound, FOH engineer would have to use reverse EQ.
In this shootout Alto/Headrush bass response is compared with other FRFRs

 

[codamedia]

I do not own a Headrush 112 so please take my comments as "general knowledge".... not necessarily an answer to this problem. 

 

This is not the first time I have heard the Headrush, Alto, and several others have hyped bass. This has been a trend with some company's with how they built their speaker boxes... likely in an effort to make them sound more appealing when first plugged in. BUT BEWARE.... High quality PA systems, even better quality PA systems along with quality sound tech's do not Hype Bass. They want the system(s) as flat as possible so they can manage and manipulate it to their liking.  

 

Why does this matter? If your Headrush has no control over the hyped bass, and you EQ your Helix to sound good through it... you are compromising your tone sent to the FOH system. If you have to roll off (or worse, completely remove) the low end because the box adds to much, then you will send a tinny/thin sound to the sound tech to work with.

 

If you only play at home... or never put your setup through a PA... don't worry about it. But if you are wanting to send a signal to the PA you should setup your tones on a system that translates better to other system, then apply some EQ that is only sent to compensate your speaker of choice.. not widely sent to all outputs. 

[gunpointmetal]

3 minutes ago, codamedia said:

I do not own a Headrush 112 so please take my comments as "general knowledge".... not necessarily an answer to this problem. 

 

This is not the first time I have heard the Headrush, Alto, and several others have hyped bass. This has been a trend with some company's with how they built their speaker boxes... likely in an effort to make them sound more appealing when first plugged in. BUT BEWARE.... High quality PA systems, even better quality PA systems along with quality sound tech's do not Hype Bass. They want the system(s) as flat as possible so they can manage and manipulate it to their liking.  

 

Why does this matter? If your Headrush has no control over the hyped bass, and you EQ your Helix to sound good through it... you are compromising your tone sent to the FOH system. If you have to roll off (or worse, completely remove) the low end because the box adds to much, then you will send a tinny/thin sound to the sound tech to work with.

 

If you only play at home... or never put your setup through a PA... don't worry about it. But if you are wanting to send a signal to the PA you should setup your tones on a system that translates better to other system, then apply some EQ that is only sent to compensate your speaker of choice.. not widely sent to all outputs. 

All two-way systems will sound "hyped" in the bass compared to a guitar speaker because the drivers are being used more efficiently (the larger driver doesn't have to put out anything above whatever the crossover point is, usually between 2.5-4Khz) and they have some sort of DSP or electronic processing to further "smooth out" the sound because, for the most part they are designed for a full-range sound. If you run a high-pass filter and keep it below 200Hz you're probably not sending a "thin" sound to FOH, just one the engineer isn't going to have to high-pass out of the way of the kick/bass. I think the most important thing to remember with FRFR monitors is that you're not amplifying the same signal you would amplifier out of a guitar cab. It's a complete recording signal chain included a microphone, which in just about any normal recording situation is going to be treated with EQ either on the way in, or in the mix to get rid of the rumble and tame the top end so you have to think about those things in the modeler when you're using FRFR. The other thing to remember is that quiet sounds (studio monitors at a moderate volume, headphones) aren't ever going to sound the same when they are very loud. It's always advisable to build your loud sounds at loud volumes.

[jonandtice]

58 minutes ago, codamedia said:

I do not own a Headrush 112 so please take my comments as "general knowledge".... not necessarily an answer to this problem. 

 

This is not the first time I have heard the Headrush, Alto, and several others have hyped bass. This has been a trend with some company's with how they built their speaker boxes... likely in an effort to make them sound more appealing when first plugged in. BUT BEWARE.... High quality PA systems, even better quality PA systems along with quality sound tech's do not Hype Bass. They want the system(s) as flat as possible so they can manage and manipulate it to their liking.  

 

Why does this matter? If your Headrush has no control over the hyped bass, and you EQ your Helix to sound good through it... you are compromising your tone sent to the FOH system. If you have to roll off (or worse, completely remove) the low end because the box adds to much, then you will send a tinny/thin sound to the sound tech to work with.

 

If you only play at home... or never put your setup through a PA... don't worry about it. But if you are wanting to send a signal to the PA you should setup your tones on a system that translates better to other system, then apply some EQ that is only sent to compensate your speaker of choice.. not widely sent to all outputs. 

The global EQ can be applied to the 1/4" outputs, the XLR outputs, or both.  So there is no reason the FOH has to be affected.

[zolko60]

Indeed!!! 2.10 Manual page "TIP: Press PAGE> to view and turn Knob 1 (Apply EQ) to set whether Global EQ is applied to only the 1/4" outputs, only the XLR outputs, or both."
Sorry for misleading.
So we are saved!!! :D

[codamedia]

2 hours ago, jonandtice said:

The global EQ can be applied to the 1/4" outputs, the XLR outputs, or both.  So there is no reason the FOH has to be affected.

 

Fair enough... I just recently picked up a Helix and didn't notice this. My older HD500 did not have this option... 

 

3 hours ago, gunpointmetal said:

All two-way systems will sound "hyped" in the bass compared to a guitar speaker

 

FYI: I wasn't comparing a 2 way speaker to a guitar speaker... I'm comparing the inexpensive 2 way FRFR to a quality full range system (PA, Monitors, Studio, etc..) you may eventually have to play through. As I understand it... the Headrush is derived from the Alto... and that video posted earlier clearly shows how "hyped" that low end is compared to the other solutions, and it's not the first time I've heard that.

 

3 hours ago, gunpointmetal said:

The other thing to remember is that quiet sounds (studio monitors at a moderate volume, headphones) aren't ever going to sound the same when they are very loud. It's always advisable to build your loud sounds at loud volumes.

 

Yes... absolutely! My tones are always setup on neutral sets of speakers (2 sets of decent home studio monitors) at fairly high volume.

[rd2rk]

That video sounds like they had the contour switch on. Did they make ANY attempt to eq for the individual speakers, or did they just set all the heads the same? Who DOESN'T know that an FRFR speaker on the floor sounds different than on a pole? The other three FRFR speakers in the video were actually optimized for guitar - why use the TS312 instead of the HR FRFR112? Better would have been a comparison between the TS312 and equivalent Yamaha, QSC and JBL offerings  Actually, based solely on that video, I wouldn't buy ANY of those speakers! Even the guitar cab didn't sound all that great.

 

I really don't get all this to do about the hyped bass. Contour switch OFF, vertical position, off the floor - sounds great! If you want less bass - some amp/cab/mic combinations are going to be bassier than others - put a low cut on the cab, try a different cab/mic, use the eq on the amp. There's LOTS of tools available in the Helix to get the sound you want and, misused, to hose the best preset ever made. I've been using this speaker since it came out, with strats (want ice pick? NO PROBLEM!), LPs, acoustics, synths, e-drums, vocals (with a preamp) and bass, and I ain't got no bassy/muddy problems like some people can't seem to handle.  If it makes your life easier, spend 2-5 times as much for something with built-in DSP but, for me, the FRFR112 handles everything I throw at it, AND it's frackin' LOUD!

[zolko60]

5 minutes ago, rd2rk said:

(...)why use the TS312 instead of the HR FRFR112? (...)

Because nobody ever proved this is different product except of logo, blue diode and lack of mic preamp.  People who compared them side by side claim there is no difference in sound.
BTW: This is not scientific test.

[rd2rk]

4 minutes ago, zolko60 said:

Because nobody ever proved this is different product except of logo, blue diode and lack of mic preamp.  People who compared them side by side claim there is no difference in sound.
BTW: This is not scientific test.

 

Link to the side by side comparison or opinion piece? Seriously, I hadn't seen one.

 

I'm aware that there's likely no real difference. Elsewhere on this site (and on Gearpage) you can see the painful dialogue between myself and the HR support folks attempting to establish if there was any technical difference. All they could/would state was the lack of mic pres. Point I'm making is that, yes, you're absolutely correct, this is NOT a scientific test. IMO, it's barely even useful. It made everything, including the Kemper, sound like poo.

 

I'm not meaning to get in your face about it, thanks for the link! Just saying, IMHO, YMMV, etc. All I'm stating is that, having owned one for a long time, the video was TOTALLY misleading, not even CLOSE to the way it really sounds.

[zolko60]

Well, for me it is really useful test. This is how customers test, compare and use their products. If you happen to have Kemper with the super duper impulse bought for 10$ and every other Kemper user claims this is THAT impulse made of THAT amp on THAT guitar, recorded thru THAT same recording path and used for THAT Top 10 record - all you want to hear is THAT sound after you connect it to the monitor you bought.
Istead you are cofused and have to ask on some forums what is wrong and treat the advice of checking your tweeter as "toxic" or offensive.

[silverhead]

20 minutes ago, zolko60 said:

....
Istead you are cofused and have to ask on some forums what is wrong and treat the advice of checking your tweeter as "toxic" or offensive.

 

Who are you talking to here? The OP,  who is the one who made the statements you refer to here, hasn't posted in this thread in quite some time. He didn't comment on any tests.

 

if you are talking about user rd2rk note that he was the one who offered the OP the advice to check his tweeter and was called inappropriately out by the OP as being toxic. He was the target of the toxic comment,  not the initiator.

[zolko60]

Yes, I mentioned OP behavior (sorry, I needed to check what OP is. English is not my mother's tongue). Did I offended him? Is any comment on some test are relevant to my reflection?

 

[rd2rk]

5 minutes ago, zolko60 said:

Yes, I mentioned OP behavior (sorry, I needed to check what OP is. English is not my mother's tongue). Did I offended him? Is any comment on some test are relevant to my reflection?

 

 

Whatever your mother tongue is, you get 10 attaboys for effort! You're doing better than I could going the other way!

 

As to your somewhat confusing post....TS312 aside....and remembering that I thought they all sounded like poo......which one did YOU like best?

 

Anyone else have a favorite?

[spikey]

Quote

Is any comment on some test are relevant to my reflection?

 

Only a mirror is relevant in that regard. However, the best looking guy in the world (besides me) can look great in the mirror and have crap for an attitude.

Welcome to the FRFR world, where mud is and always will be king until you learn how to tweak it out correctly. Reading here and You-Tube will be your best friend there.

Please understand that I meant to also "check elsewhere"  ; ). 

 

 

[Musicmannetje]

I just started using the headrush frfr (112) with my helix (floor). I only use my own tones and I didn't have to adjust much on them. I am used to play stereo (via a separate amp and stereo cabinet) and tend to include 'stereo enhancement' settings in the tone (two separate IRs in parallel with a slight 10ms delay on one channel). I have connected the Headrush via two XLR cables, so although being mono, the 'stereo wideness' sound is still there. On some amps (Twin reverb) the sound is somewhat bassy, so I had to adjust the EQ a bit, but otherwise the sound comes out crystal clear without any (unwanted) distortion. So, apart from the surface of the Headrush being 'scratchy', I am a happy headrush user. 

[bobcoss]

Hi,

 

I have a Headrush frfr 112 in my basement on a plastic keyboard stand horizontal at head height when I'm seated along with other various amps and monitors around my desk.  I mostly use the Headrush these days.  I think it sounds great.  I didn't have to tweak anything to get the sound I'm happy with.  I build and tweak my patches with it, and they sound good when I go live.  For live, my Helix goes direct to front of house and I use in ears plugged into a Powerplay digital monitor mixer.  I'm happy with the sound.   I'm thinking about getting another one to do stereo.

 

Bob