POD GO Tonesuck through my Tweed Amp

[HansD]

Hi there,

First of all I run my Pod Go through 2 Fender Tweed Amps, clean. (main out L+R  to the front of both Amps, no Eff. send/return ), amp models/cabs off, so only using the effects. the reason I chose the Pod Go cause of it's simplicity, all the effects I need, expressionpedal, master volume....in other words a brilliant device which is portable and light.

To go back to what I've been playing on the last 10 years; same setup, but first with a M13 and then a POD HD 500( which I Love both cause I love the M Series effects that they both use and  are also part of the POD GO effect list).

 

Now here is my problem; When I connect the Pod Go to my amps the tone is altered severely ( you can hear it even more clear when you bypass all the effects). I feel al the sparkle out of the amps have gone.

With all my other machines ( M13, Pod HD 500, Axe AX8) it doesn't affect my amp tones so the typical sparkle of my amps stay.

When I A/B the direct amp sound against the bypassed Pod Go sound it's a huge difference. 

I should think that a new machine shouldn't be giving these changes if 10+ year old machines don't have this form of tone suck.

 

I have tried everything I could think of to see if there would be changes, DB changes, line level, EQ,Global EQ, connect to one amp, amp out, etc. but nothing changed.

 

I almost start to believe I have a faulty POD GO( it's updated and even tried a factory reset)

 

Is any one out there that has the same issues with a conventional AMP(front in)-POD GO-Guiar setup or have heard the tone suck when A/B Amp versus Amp with POD GO?

Or maybe someone has a solution which I overlooked....

 

I hope some Line 6 experts are reading this post too, cause I know a lot of people use the POD GO with the Amp/Cabmodels into an FRFR or go directly FOH, but the machine is also marketed and promoted for conventional use. 

 

I hope there is an explanation/solution for this problem, cause I was planning to take the POD GO on our European Tour next year( if Corona permits)

 

I hope to hear the answer to this problem!

 

Many thanx in advance,

Hans Diener

The Essence

[cristt]

uhm that's a hard one. I can't replicate your setup but, did you try to change the cable from pod go to amps? did you try also to use a TRS cable instead of a standard one? 

you may also submit a support ticket to line 6.

[HansD]

Thanx for your reply cristt. I tried different cables including TRS cables, but there's no difference. I will submit a support ticket.

The thing that surprises me, is that there has been no comments from others about this. The difference in tone is quite severe.

 

[grdGo33]

I tried on mine and I do also get some high end reduction it seems like.  Not drastic, but noticeable.  Still, could be placebo, but I'm fairly confident I could differentiate it in a DBT...  One thing though is that it could be a volume level, are the guitar & Go using the same volume?  If not, if your guitar is louder than the go maybe you're getting more tube saturation/distortion and that's what you interpret as sparkle...

 

Other than that, my theories would be:

 

1) Going through the Go is bound to affect the signal in some way.  Some pedals have "true bypass", but in case of Go, being digital, even when you're turning everything off in software, you're still going through the analog and digital conversion, and all of the circuits of the Go.  If the Go was perfect, you couldn't hear any of it, but it appears that it isn't optimal and it does, as you describe, suck the tone...  :\

2) Could be impedance related; when the guitar is connected directly to the amp, it creates a circuit; and in simple terms, the guitar affects the amp and the amp affects the guitar.  (all offer different resistances and work 'as a whole').   When you're plugging in the Go, well now you've completely change the circuit; Guitar -> Go -> amp -> Go -> Guitar, so now everything has changed...  Maybe that also has an effect on your tone... (theory on my part, I know impedance affects electronics, but not quite certain about PUs & amps.  Maybe no effect, maybe someone knows lol)

3) You're also using an extra cable which will also have an effect, the longer cable the more effect... 

 

So in the end, I'm guessing it's the sum of all of the above.  But I'm surprised that other devices like HD500 & others wouldn't have such impact...  Is the Go really worse than others?  I'd be curious now to know if the other Helix products would have the same 'tone sucking quality' that the Go seems to have...

[grdGo33]

On 10/3/2020 at 2:23 PM, HansD said:

Thanx for your reply cristt. I tried different cables including TRS cables, but there's no difference. I will submit a support ticket.

The thing that surprises me, is that there has been no comments from others about this. The difference in tone is quite severe.

 

Any improvement/news/update after speaking to L6 or trying different stuff?

[JWIDE]

Hi, I too have experienced tone suck from POD Go, and I have mentioned it to one person at Line6 and they didn't have a response. I have tried everything, and found LA Comp helps the most to restore enough tone to make it acceptable, but it's still way less than the real deal.  I expected some of their amp models not to play nice with my amps, but I did not expect going bypass- effects only to also dull up the tone.  But it does.  When I A-B an old PODXT on bypass, effects only, the difference is very obvious. The 15 year old XT is brighter, has more sparkle, leaves my amps' tone undiminished.  I have tried A-B test through four different amps (Suhr Badger 30, 66 Supro TBolt, 66 Fender Tremolux, and a BillM Blues Jr.  I never used the models in the XT (after a last firmware update) because they sounded fizzy and harshly unmusical.  The effects and programmability though, made that old XT useful and versatile enough for most things I do.  

 

POD Go has a lot of neat stuff in it for the price, was far cheaper than the Helix with the same engine (same as 500HD I guess), so I went for it. It's a useful tool, but it will never be as lively sounding as a quality tube amp with minimal signal chain devices. 

 

POD GO likes flat response amps. The Powercab is probably best.  POD GO sounds killer through headphones, recording direct, going stereo direct into the PA (although losing the amp behind you leaves much to be desired, and a wedge doesn't cut it.) The stereo effects are to die for.  If you are eating to lighten the load, this is a good tool and super versatile.  But it isn't the multi-effects unit I intended to buy, simply because it diminishes the tone of quality tube amps.  I'll keep it, but if I were on a tighter budget, I'd be unhappy.   

[HansD]

Hi, thanx for writing your comment. You seem to have the same problem as I have. I use the Boostcomp standard but that doesn’t make anything right for the loss of “ sparkle” of my Fender tweeds. And like you said; you don’t havecthe severe amount of tonesuck with your other “old” effect machines. I don’t know if you have the same, but the standard “ hiss” that comes out of my amp when the Pod Go is inbetween is also very noticeable when compared to my other effect machines. 
Today I have decided to contact my reseller am going to send to pod go back to find out if mine’s faulty. If it’s not I’m thinking of letting the pod Go go cause then it’s obviously not fit in a conventional set up, which Line 6 says it’s made for as well. I will wait what comes out, and hope ( but am affraid it is what it is) it’s a faulty machine. I love the concept of the pod go a lot;

easy to use, all the sounds, expressionpedal and  very leightweight, but the base of this machine can’t be that it consumes so much high end/sparkle when used with a guitaramp and the amount of standard hissing noise compared to all my other line 6 , AXE FX  ergo “ older” machines who don’t have this. 

[kdsdada0308]

I had the same issue and the best solution I found was sticking a buffer before the Pod Go. Guitar to buffer/buffered pedal to Pod to amp brought the sparkle back. Not ideal but sounds and feels closer to the straight in tone that the global eq didn’t. 

[HansD]

Yess! I use the Custom Audio Electronics booster/line driver as my buffer for quite some time now. it indeed brings back the sparkle of my amps( I'm not boosting, just using the buffer). on my quest to this problem I noticed that in almost every forum concerning the Helix type processors there have been similar experiences, so even the Top segment Helix has it. 

I'm affraid this is an hardware problem which for some reason can't be solved and only goes for people who use the machines in a traditional way ( guitar-pod go/helix serie-guitaramp)

 

At the moment my Pod Go is back at the reseller cause there is a " hissing noise" when I put my pod inbetween my guitar and amp which doesn't change even when I put my pod go master volume at zero, bypass all effects, line/instrument level, global noise gate on/off, etc.

Again this noise isn't there whenI connect my HD 500, AX8,M13 or just plug in  straight into my tube amp. 

I'm awaiting their diagnose if I have a faulty Pod Go or is this again something to accept from this machine.

also concerning this I have read similar experiences from other owners concerning this hissing noise, therefor again maybe it is like it is.

 

I would love these problems to be solved cause I still think the Pod Go is a true GEM, sound wise, user-friendly, portable.....

cause I find this an iconic machine with iconic effects( DM 4, DL4, Verbzilla)

 

 

[PierM]

Anyway, isnt just the PodGo. Even if I connect my Helix Rack (without using amp sim), in front of my Fender Deluxe, it does suck a lot of the original tone and dynamics (other than adding a crazy hiss noise). 

 

On the other hand, if I plug my normal pedalboard, with strymon stuff and other pedals, it's all good and flawless.

 

I think there is something on these devices, that these Fender amps are not liking that much....

[HansD]

It's remarkable that your Helix rack has the same issues (Tonesuck and hiss noise), but I already discovered that this goes for more Helix serie machines ( pod go is also helix technology).

 

If you want to get most of your original tone and dynamics back, I suggest you to put a good buffer pedal between your guitar and your Helix Rack ( I use a CAE booster/linedriver ON but boost knob at 0 db). 

The hiss noise I'm still waiting for my reseller to send my PodGo back with comments. I'll keep you posted.

 

Maybe these Fender amps are more bright so that it's more noticable, but running it through an old  AC30 tb which also sparkles had the same negative outcome sound wise/hiss wise.

 

[mmassic]

Hello,

 

I noticed the same thing with my own POD Go.  If you deactivate all blocks from the effects chain in the POD Go, the input signal from your guitar will loose in high frequencies and presence and will seem to be more boxy (more bass).   Input impendance is 1MOhms so it must not be of a problem.  There are probably some internal fixed EQs in the POD (intentional or not).

Most guitarists will never notice it.  I do because I care a lot about tone presence and meant to use the unit for acoustic guitar too.
 

Has anyone received a reply from Line6 on this matter?

[voxman55]

As mentioned earlier, using a buffered pedal with the Pod Go should remedy or significantly alleviate the problem. I use a Line 6 G10 Relay that acts like a buffered pedal and is even better.  Any Boss pedal will do, but if you use a Boss GE7 EQ you'll be able to dial the highs back in too. 

[mmassic]

Yeah ... I tested with different equipments, like an acoustic guitar with a built-in preamp, and I noticed the same.  It's not only an input impedance thing.  The frequency response of the unit is not near flat when deactivating everything.

 

Thank You

[ben_craven]

The input impedance seems to be completely messed up to me.

 

I made a video showing the difference when using a buffer. Sorry about the clickbait video thumbnail:

 

 

That a buffer can make that much of a difference to the top end suggests to me that issue is in the hardware.

[rosskoss]

I think it sounds better without a buffer when I tried.

[ben_craven]

Line 6 support told me I was subjectively hearing the 1M input impedance incorrectly. I went and calculated the input impedance at 360k. This explains everything, so I still believe this is a genuine issue, at least in MY Pod Go:

 

[sebabetto]

3 hours ago, ben_craven said:

Line 6 support told me I was subjectively hearing the 1M input impedance incorrectly. I went and calculated the input impedance at 360k. This explains everything, so I still believe this is a genuine issue, at least in MY Pod Go:

 

 

wow! I'm not an expert in electronics, but I think any Line6's  ingenieer would corroborate your experiment. If is all accurate, man! a lot of difference between 1M and 360k. 

Maybe the folks of Line6 are confident about the input is 1M, but the mistake is on the manufacture.

 

[lazar0s]

I have the same problem as @sebabetto. I discovered it today after I tried using a buffer in front of the PODGO .

Generally I had problems with the tone getting whatever the amp being dark/muddy needing a lot of tweaking to get something nice out of it.

I saw the video @sebabetto created and it sounded too familiar. I don't know if it is only in some of the early models that line6 shipped(got mine September 2020) but Line6 must address this.

[sebabetto]

1 hour ago, lazar0s said:

I have the same problem as @sebabetto. I discovered it today after I tried using a buffer in front of the PODGO .

Generally I had problems with the tone getting whatever the amp being dark/muddy needing a lot of tweaking to get something nice out of it.

I saw the video @sebabetto created and it sounded too familiar. I don't know if it is only in some of the early models that line6 shipped(got mine September 2020) but Line6 must address this.

 

@lazar0s I 'm not the owner of the video, I just quoted @ben_craven

I don't have any buffered pedal like boss eq or polytune. do you recomend to buy one and put it in front of the pod go? 

[lazar0s]

I guess try to borrow one and see if there is a difference for you before buying something. Ideally lines should address this sooner than later.

[voxman55]

A Line 6 Relay G10 also acts as a buffer. 

[kzmaier]

Maybe they can fix it with a firmware update!!  Fingers crossed, if they can control input impedance via software.  I think they let each effect block simulate its original input impedance on some of there digital effects.  Did the dude doing the actual measurements (thanks by the way, @ben_craven), try different effects for the first effect block? 

 

If this turns out to be a design oversight, line6 could make it right with a low cost hw input buffer.  It could plug into the guitar input socket with a 1/4 " input of its own and use a pigtail power off the main power jack.

[lazar0s]

I have opened a ticket with the line6 support describing the problem. They should respond swiftly and fix this hopefully via a software patch.

Yet so far they have not acknowledged the issue.

[ben_craven]

Hi everyone. I received the following comment in my support ticket. I think it's an acknowledgement that Line 6 has not dismissed the issue completely, so that's positive news:

 

"I was recently informed that our team is already aware of this issue, and our quality team will be investigating it further if there should be any improvements to Pod Go firmware or hardware."

 

For a bit more background, I also tested the input impedance with the signal connected as the unit was switched on, but I didn't see any difference so didn't bother including it in the video. The guitar input pad was off for the test, and the placement of effects at the beginning of the chain didn't seem to make a difference either.

[ben_craven]

I notice this topic has spawned a similar thread on The Gear Page, so it doesn't appear limited to a few units:

[Kidopaul]

Hello to all,

I can totally relate to what most people has said. I received my Pod Go last week, just after discovering this issue on forums. For now I just made my peace with using a buffered pedal in front of Pod Go, since the difference is really noticeable. But I would love an update from Line 6 is this were possible, since I wanted to use Pod Go as my single piece of gear for all my sounds. I prefer vintage tones, and I feel the Pod Go is really good at that, except that it really needs a buffer in front to really shine (and in my opinion, it does!)

Do you have any idea how I could support an effort to raise line 6's awareness on this issue? Because I feel that this recent discovery could make people rediscover this great piece of gear.

[lazar0s]

18 hours ago, Kidopaul said:

Hello to all,

I can totally relate to what most people has said. I received my Pod Go last week, just after discovering this issue on forums. For now I just made my peace with using a buffered pedal in front of Pod Go, since the difference is really noticeable. But I would love an update from Line 6 is this were possible, since I wanted to use Pod Go as my single piece of gear for all my sounds. I prefer vintage tones, and I feel the Pod Go is really good at that, except that it really needs a buffer in front to really shine (and in my opinion, it does!)

Do you have any idea how I could support an effort to raise line 6's awareness on this issue? Because I feel that this recent discovery could make people rediscover this great piece of gear.

Create a support ticket and explain the problem. Tag us(people that raised the same issue) in it.

I have already done this and their first response was "are you in 1.3 version and have you tried different factory reset/amp/guitar/cable/guitar in pad on off". I tried what they suggested and the problem does not go away in the slightest and I am waiting for their next response.

Actually what I am expecting is acknowledgement and a solution. The sooner the better

[voxman55]

Hopefully this is something Line 6 might be able to address in Pod Go firmware v1.40, that is currently in development. 

[Kidopaul]

I don't really know how to tag people in a support ticket...

I quoted your comments and signaled that their solution did not work.

I really hope they can do something about it, but if they can't well, that's life. The buffer pedal trick works great, It is just a bit of a hassle to keep batteries available etc...

[lazar0s]

Any news from anybody? My support ticket has not been responded yet.

[ade_neto]

I stick a Boss TU-3 before the Pod Go and the sound changed drastically, not just a bit I can assure to you all.

 

I don't think a factory reset can solve this problem, but I'm considering it.

[ben_craven]

I have no further updates.

 

I am disappointed that a $1000 AUD unit has such a glaring design problem, which has been generally dismissed by reps as something only "power users" should worry about.

 

The digital algorithms and modeling are absolutely terrific. Unfortunately the critical input circuitry does not do them justice.

 

Mine is still under warranty so I might contact the local Yamaha service centre and see what options are available.

[ben_craven]

On 2/26/2022 at 9:10 AM, ade_neto said:

I stick a Boss TU-3 before the Pod Go and the sound changed drastically, not just a bit I can assure to you all.

 

I don't think a factory reset can solve this problem, but I'm considering it.

 

A factory reset made no difference in my case. It's just the standard, easy, first troubleshooting step support teams recommend to customers. 

[ade_neto]

Hy guys!

 

It's not the solution, but helped me a little bit and I want to share this experiences with you all. I had in my possession for a few days a Kemper and HX Stomp and used them to match the tone of my presets. After many hours of tweaking I felt some improvements:

 

1) Pod Go doesn't like cables with more than 10 ft (3 Mts). I've tested a few different guitar cables and discovery that some cables have a much brighter sound, and 10 ft is the maximum length you should use. The difference is significant;

2) Used the "Low/Hi Shelf" EQ to smash all frequencies below 500/600 Hz by at least 2 dB (or more), and increased the high end until it matches with Kemper. The 2/3 kHz are the sweet spot; 

3) Change you IR and cab and also the mic. To me the best result was a combination of the 112 Dynamic mic with the 2x12 Interstate Cab. I also changed the high cut to off;

 

All the experiments was made to match the sound to Kemper profile with the same amps (Matchless and Vox AC30 by Michael Britt). After four days and a lot of work I've decided Pod Go will continue as my main equipment, but I would be very happy if Line 6 fix this in the next update.

 

One last though:

 

Maybe it's not a flaw but only a different approach from Line 6 as I felt the same lack of crispness from HX Stomp. I'm also thinking if I could ever found out this issue by myself and the answer was: probably not...

 

Final thought: for me ignorance is a bless!!! LOL

 

Sorry for the bad jokes, I'm just trying to help.

 

Cheers!

 

 

[kzmaier]

The HX Stomp has an input impedance circuit that can be configured by software (user selectable).  It would be great if the Pod Go did as well and just needs a firmware change.  If that's not the case, I wonder if the EQ block could be configured to offset any input losses?  I know it's not the same but could be better then packing a extra buffer.  The Pod Go is a great unit!  Its UI, tone, and portability are unmatched in my opinion.

 

Fingers crossed for next firmware release!!!

[ben_craven]

I am hopeful. 

 

If the Pod Go had been advertised more accurately as "the input impedance is 300k" and "you will need to add corrective EQ to make your passive guitar sound consistent", I probably wouldn't have bought it in the first place.

[tribal123]

Same issue here.. muddy tones.. i'm totally newbie in pedal effects and in analogic settings... can someone advise me a low budget pedal tha can act as buffer to buy?

Only external pedal owned is a Wha VOX v847 but i don't think that can act as a buffer...

 

[grdGo33]

On 3/17/2022 at 12:17 PM, tribal123 said:

Same issue here.. muddy tones.. i'm totally newbie in pedal effects and in analogic settings... can someone advise me a low budget pedal tha can act as buffer to buy?

Only external pedal owned is a Wha VOX v847 but i don't think that can act as a buffer...

 

 

Quote

Vox V847 Wha Wha

Based on the specifications of the original pedal developed by VOX in the ’60s, the new Wah-Wah offers guitarists the same legendary tone with the addition of AC power capability and a buffered input jack for preserving the unprocessed guitar tone when the pedal is not engaged.

 

Plus, if you're sitting down, you'll be able to use both the Go's wah plus your Vox wah at the same time using both feet, giving you double wah, the wahssibilites will then be endless!!

[tribal123]

On 3/17/2022 at 5:59 PM, grdGo33 said:

 

 

Plus, if you're sitting down, you'll be able to use both the Go's wah plus your Vox wah at the same time using both feet, giving you double wah, the wahssibilites will then be endless!!

Ahahah, i'm zero with this stuff... how can i connect the wha ONLY to fix the impedance issue ?