Pickups and sustain issues

[toddkc]

Hey everyone, I am having an issue and assume it's mainly just my lack of knowledge on how I should solve it.  So I have three guitars, a Godin XTSA, an ibanez S670, and an Epiphone with Fishman Fluence pickups.  The Godin and Ibanez just have their respective branded pickups, nothing aftermarket.  My issue is that all three guitars get NO sustain at all through my helix (and previously my pod go).  I've tried all sorts of patch creation, and at this point I have the input gate off, pad off, impedence auto (first enabled), a compressor up front going into a boost and then a high-gain amp, using various combos of cabs, dual-cabs, and IRs.  I hit a note above the 12th-fret, hold it and add a touch of vibrato, and it decays almost instantly.  It's awful!  I know there are "high-output" pickups, and people spend money on dimarzio/seymourduncan/whatever pickups because they are better than godin/ibanez branded pickups.  But I thought when I got the fishman fluence one it would be different.  Nope.  No sustain at all.  My ibanez has a floyd and the instant I try to use that on a note....note dies.  For the record I have also tried a lot of pickup height adjustments on all three guitars to see if any higher/lower positions help.  No difference, until I get to the extremes of course.  I also have several different cables and even a wireless setup I have tried for getting the guitar to the helix.

 

So....the only thing I have found that works is adding a +12db gain block up front.  I really don't want to waste the block though if I can avoid it.  And none of the presets I've downloaded do this, but the videos always seem to have great lead lines with gobs of sustain. 

 

I would love to get some advice that could help me learn a bit and solve my issue.  Thanks!

[rd2rk]

How long are you expecting a note to sustain?

 

When I read this I just happened to be playing my weakest HB guitar, a 2020 Squier Affinity HSS Strat, through the Uberschall, no boosts, no IR, gain and master up a bit, straight into my PC212+. Notes on the B and E strings above the 12th fret (D,E,G,A) give me at least 5 seconds before starting to decay.

 

I'd say start by looking at your compressor settings.

 

Attach a sample preset and I (probably others too) will have a look at it.

[toddkc]

On 10/6/2022 at 5:08 PM, rd2rk said:

How long are you expecting a note to sustain?

 

When I read this I just happened to be playing my weakest HB guitar, a 2020 Squier Affinity HSS Strat, through the Uberschall, no boosts, no IR, gain and master up a bit, straight into my PC212+. Notes on the B and E strings above the 12th fret (D,E,G,A) give me at least 5 seconds before starting to decay.

 

I'd say start by looking at your compressor settings.

 

Attach a sample preset and I (probably others too) will have a look at it.

I don't have an exact amount of time in mind, but more than it currently is.  If I'm playing a solo in front of people and hit a note and bend it and hold it and it immediately dies it looks like I messed up, and it's hard to get in a groove when you just can't hold a note.  You get 5 seconds?!  I am absolutely astounded by what you are saying.  It's like we have two completely different pedals.  I have been playing with the +12db gain block first in the chain for the last hour or so and that makes a world of difference, so that may be the solution.  But, again, it seems this is only a me problem, which you corroborate with your signal path and results.

 

I did attach my main preset I use for basically everything.  Only notes I will add is that the Deluxe Comp after the wah is just an experimental comp block, it's at the default settings for that comp and that's the block I've been using to audition different pedals.  I generally just don't have anything there.  And I have an IR block that obviously won't have an IR in it when you load it up.

 

Thanks for the reply and help!

Litigator 2204.hlx

[rd2rk]

IDK - your preset sounds fine even without all the trickery, the length of sustain is about on par with any of my hi-gain presets. Just for kicks I loaded up some hi-gain profiles in ToneX and THU and it seems to me that if anything, Helix sustains longer, but here's the main thing I noticed. The "bend and hold and sustain forever" technique is not something I do a lot. I messed around with it on 3 guitars, the Squier I mentioned, my PRS Custom 24 and my Ibanez ARX140 with a JB in the bridge. Different notes sustain longer, but it was pretty uniform across all 3 guitars and regardless of whether I used Helix or profiles (through my PC212+) or my Catalyst100 on the hi-gain channel. Different notes sustain longer, and my technique has more to do with it than the actual amps or gain levels. At volume, positioning the guitar so that it was on the edge of feedback made it SEEM like the notes were "sustaining" forever. I always thought Satriani's sustain technique was magic, turns out he uses a Sustainiac pickup!

 

Sorry I couldn't be more help, maybe someone else can school us both!

[PierM]

If a note decays instantly as you said, it's either fret buzz, or pickups way to close to strings.

 

Said that, Helix does nothing special to the sound that could produce "no sustain", so if isnt the playing, if isnt the fret buzz, if isnt the guitar, it's probably something wrong with the setup.

 

Global settings for in/out? Pad? Noise Gate somewhere?

[porky_pie]

I'd definitely check the input block for the noise gate - It's easy to miss, and without a noise gate block it is easy to think that no noise gate is active on the patch.

[toddkc]

Thanks for the feedback everybody.  There is definitely something I'm missing, but I sure can't tell what it is.  No noise gate is on, no pad (preset or global), and like I said the same result with all 3 of my guitars.  I do my own setups so I'm sure they aren't perfect, but I also don't think it's due to fret buzz or pickup height honestly.  I've tried various tweaks on my setups and not difference.  I'll try to get some sound clips maybe of what is happening.  I guess it could just be my technique.  The first block being a +12db gain block really really seems to help all 3 of my guitars, so that may just be a permanent block for me!  Maybe I'm just an "always on transparent boost" type of player and I didn't know it until now.

 

I also do have a catalyst that I haven't used much, I'll compare results with that.  If I have any significant findings with any of these tests/combos I will report back.  Thanks again!

[PierM]

Sometimes even just a transparent overdrive (klon clone), with gain at minimum, can give that extra sustain kick you feel is missing. 

[codamedia]

On 10/6/2022 at 6:22 PM, toddkc said:

If I'm playing a solo in front of people and hit a note and bend it and hold it and it immediately dies it looks like I messed up, and it's hard to get in a groove when you just can't hold a note.  You get 5 seconds?!

 

What are you monitoring your Helix through and at what volume?

 

Those "long notes held forever" are often the result of volume... at least enough to regenerate through the pickups. I can coax out most of the sustain I need from my Tele using IEM's (in ear monitors... aka ear buds... ie: no volume on stage) by finding the right amount of overdrive and/or compression, but I cannot do the "notes held forever" without a cabinet to lean my guitar into. 

 

Many of us are keeping a "feedbacker / sustainer" on our wishlist for a future update. 

 

On 10/6/2022 at 4:27 PM, toddkc said:

I know there are "high-output" pickups, and people spend money on dimarzio/seymourduncan/whatever pickups because they are better than godin/ibanez branded pickups.  But I thought when I got the fishman fluence one it would be different.  Nope.  No sustain at all.

 

Do you set your pickups too high? Magnetic pickups (including the Fishman Fluence) pull on the strings.... the higher they are set the louder your signal will be but it will be at the expense of sustain. Lowering your pickups will result in more sustain and IMO, a nicer overall tone.

 

On 10/6/2022 at 4:27 PM, toddkc said:

For the record I have also tried a lot of pickup height adjustments on all three guitars to see if any higher/lower positions help.  No difference, until I get to the extremes of course. 

 

As you lower the pickups are you lowering them ALL a little at a time. You can't lower just one pickup because any other pickup in the guitar is still pulling on the string as well. 

 

 

[toddkc]

On 10/8/2022 at 6:52 AM, codamedia said:

 

What are you monitoring your Helix through and at what volume?

 

Those "long notes held forever" are often the result of volume... at least enough to regenerate through the pickups. I can coax out most of the sustain I need from my Tele using IEM's (in ear monitors... aka ear buds... ie: no volume on stage) by finding the right amount of overdrive and/or compression, but I cannot do the "notes held forever" without a cabinet to lean my guitar into. 

 

Many of us are keeping a "feedbacker / sustainer" on our wishlist for a future update. 

 

 

Do you set your pickups too high? Magnetic pickups (including the Fishman Fluence) pull on the strings.... the higher they are set the louder your signal will be but it will be at the expense of sustain. Lowering your pickups will result in more sustain and IMO, a nicer overall tone.

 

 

As you lower the pickups are you lowering them ALL a little at a time. You can't lower just one pickup because any other pickup in the guitar is still pulling on the string as well. 

 

 

Hi, thanks for the tips!  I agree about the feebacker/sustainer wishlist.  I have been shopping around for a freqout myself.  Maybe the next update will have something.

 

I monitor through IEMs, some computer speakers, and sometimes a couple 12" behringer PA speakers.  The PA speakers are of course the best option, I can turn everything up to get feedback and then it isn't an issue.  Again, I feel I should point out I am in no way expecting a note to hold forever, just for a few seconds with an actual fade out and not an abrupt cutoff.  And having the +12db gain block first in my Helix path solves this, fwiw.

 

I don't have my pickups set too high.  I set all of them to the "standard" of 3/32" and then tried various adjustments up and down.  Seymour Duncan also recommends 1/8" on the low E side and 1/16" on the high E side so I tried that and various tweaks from there.  They definitely aren't all too high, and I get the same results with each guitar.

 

I wrote this before, but apparently forgot to login first so it didn't post (or just hasn't yet):  I have a Boss GP-10 I was using to compare.  The amp modeling is nowhere near the quality of the helix but with my guitar plugged straight in to a mid-gain amp with no other boosts or overdrive/compression pedals I was getting the desired amount of sustain.  It appears the Helix input is just much less hot than the GP-10, even with the input pad off.  Then I tried going guitar into GP-10 into Helix, with all the GP-10 effects off.  I cranked up the preset volume setting and the physical volume knob, and that also got me the desired sustain through the Helix amps.  THEN, I did add a cranked up clean boost (basically the same as a gain block in Helix) and finally got some red on the Helix input icon showing I was clipping.

 

I have also tried using two gain blocks at the start of the path in Helix and that's just too much, so for whatever reason it seems that my preferences with all three of my guitars just need a bit of an input boost to get me where I need to go.  I did also finally find another person doing this, that makes me feel a bit better.  On the CustomTone site Richie Castellano has a preset for Comfortably Numb that has a +12db gain block first in the path.

 

Thanks again for the tips all, this has been an interesting experiment.

[codamedia]

Thanks for the detailed response.... obviously you've been troubleshooting effectively and that's the key start. 

 

On 10/8/2022 at 8:08 AM, toddkc said:

And having the +12db gain block first in my Helix path solves this, fwiw.

 

This is the one that makes no sense to me.... it shouldn't be needed. Sure - use it as another gain shaping tool "at times" if you want, but it shouldn't be needed "all of the time". EG: I already find that many overdrives/compressors and amps have inherently more gain than the hardware models I've owned, I can't imaging hitting those with 12db extra out of the gate. Nothing down chain would react as expected any longer. 

 

I can't help but think something is being overlooked somewhere. Playing through my Helix is equally as natural as playing through one of my amps... there is no inherent loss of sustain. 

 

On 10/8/2022 at 8:08 AM, toddkc said:

On the CustomTone site Richie Castellano has a preset for Comfortably Numb that has a +12db gain block first in the path.

 

Let's keep that in perspective... it's ONE of Richie's presets, not what he runs on ALL his presets. 

Let's also keep something else in perspective... Comfortably Numb has never been a normal amount of sustain :) 

 

[toddkc]

On 10/8/2022 at 10:33 AM, codamedia said:

Thanks for the detailed response.... obviously you've been troubleshooting effectively and that's the key start. 

 

 

This is the one that makes no sense to me.... it shouldn't be needed. Sure - use it as another gain shaping tool "at times" if you want, but it shouldn't be needed "all of the time". EG: I already find that many overdrives/compressors and amps have inherently more gain than the hardware models I've owned, I can't imaging hitting those with 12db extra out of the gate. Nothing down chain would react as expected any longer. 

 

I can't help but think something is being overlooked somewhere. Playing through my Helix is equally as natural as playing through one of my amps... there is no inherent loss of sustain. 

 

 

Let's keep that in perspective... it's ONE of Richie's presets, not what he runs on ALL his presets. 

Let's also keep something else in perspective... Comfortably Numb has never been a normal amount of sustain :) 

 

Haha I agree with the keeping in mind it is only ONE of Richie's presets, I was just glad to see ONE other place that had that trick :)

 

I also totally agree it sounds like I'm missing something, and I would sure love to find out what that is.  I am 100% certain I do not have any gate or pad enabled, and all of my blocks are gain-staged fairly well IMHO, as you could tell if you tried out my preset.  But yeah, I also 100% need that +12db gain block up front.  Not for any actual gain of course, I agree with you also that most things have plenty of gain, it's literally just the sustain.  I can start from a new preset and add just an amp and cab block, with that 2204 mod, and while I get plenty of gain my notes just decay and die unnaturally quickly, exactly like if I did have a gate on and set incorrectly.  Add in that gain block (or as I tried with the GP-10 just hitting the input with more signal) and that solves it.  It's crazy!  Also as a note, I had this same issue with my Pod Go.  That's one of the things I had hoped to fix by upgrading, which I guess I did as I have more blocks and options.

 

Sorry for saying "I agree" so much, I guess I'm just agreeable today....

[codamedia]

On 10/8/2022 at 3:21 PM, toddkc said:

I can start from a new preset and add just an amp and cab block, with that 2204 mod, and while I get plenty of gain my notes just decay and die unnaturally quickly, exactly like if I did have a gate on and set incorrectly. 

 

That's just not right... 

 

Here is a couple things I would try if you haven't already. 

1. Earlier in the thread you say you have your input impedance set to "Auto (first on)". Have you tried the 1M fixed value yet during your tests? 
2. If you have a Boss pedal laying around (single pedal, not the multi-fx)... try placing it before the Helix but leave it turned off. This changes the buffer your guitar/cable is seeing... and is worth noting if it makes a difference.  (not meant as a cure, just for troubleshooting)

On 10/8/2022 at 3:21 PM, toddkc said:

I am 100% certain I do not have any gate or pad enabled, and all of my blocks are gain-staged fairly well IMHO, as you could tell if you tried out my preset. 

 

I will load up your preset today now that my Helix is back home from it's weekend gigs. I could have loaded it into Helix Native but that's an entirely different input chain on my setup. 

[toddkc]

On 10/9/2022 at 8:15 AM, codamedia said:

 

That's just not right... 

 

Here is a couple things I would try if you haven't already. 

1. Earlier in the thread you say you have your input impedance set to "Auto (first on)". Have you tried the 1M fixed value yet during your tests? 
2. If you have a Boss pedal laying around (single pedal, not the multi-fx)... try placing it before the Helix but leave it turned off. This changes the buffer your guitar/cable is seeing... and is worth noting if it makes a difference.  (not meant as a cure, just for troubleshooting)

 

I will load up your preset today now that my Helix is back home from it's weekend gigs. I could have loaded it into Helix Native but that's an entirely different input chain on my setup. 

I have not messed with the input impedance settings, I guess I should have....I just set it to auto and left it.  For the Boss pedal I can actually do you one better, I bought a JHS Little Black Buffer to pair with my Pod Go after reading some of the stuff about it needing an input buffer.  It does not make any difference with the Helix, but I would guess it's working with (or fighting with) the input impedance setting.  I'll play around with both of those.

[datacommando]

On 10/8/2022 at 9:21 PM, toddkc said:

I can start from a new preset and add just an amp and cab block, with that 2204 mod, and while I get plenty of gain my notes just decay and die unnaturally quickly, exactly like if I did have a gate on and set incorrectly. 

 

Hi,

 

I download your supplied preset and I cannot see what the problem is, other than you didn't say what the IR is that you used. As you have a Litigator and a 2204 Mod in there I used an IR (MB 3P Mars 2 4 Brt) from the Michael Britt Helix Pack1 which is used on all his Plexi presets in the pack.

link: https://mbritt.com/product/m-britt-helix-preset-pack-1/. 

 

I junked the 12db gain block along with the Deluxe Comp as I deemed them unnecessary. Everything seems fine - enough sustain for me using my single coils, it put it into David Gilmour land, then using my DiMarzio DP163 Bluesbuckers (more like P90's than regular humbuckers) I found that around a 3.5 to 4.5 second sustain on single notes was about average. No quite Carlos Santana, but if you can't function with 3 or four seconds without really pushing it, then I don't know what you are expecting.

 

I really am perplexed, I don't know what to suggest other than maybe try with a fresh set of strings. Plus check how your IR is set.

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

[CraigGT]

My Helix isn't working at the moment so I can't check but isn't there a global gate on the input settings?

That setting wouldn't be included in the patch you posted.

[rd2rk]

On 10/9/2022 at 11:00 AM, CraigGT said:

My Helix isn't working at the moment so I can't check but isn't there a global gate on the input settings?

That setting wouldn't be included in the patch you posted.

 

There's no Global Gate.

[PierM]

Talking about sustain it's always a foggy territory as there are like billions of variables, and possible wrong use of the term "sustain", while the expected effect is volume feedback, or viceversa...

 

Sustain per se, is just the string vibration decay. So anything affecting the quality of that aspect, will reduce it. And that's all happening despite what's coming after the guitar. What's coming after the guitar, it's only amplifying, squeezing and pushing that decay to audible levels.

 

If you pick an open string and you get the natural and long decay (no fret buzz), then there is not a sustain issue. If the problem onlys appears on fretted notes, then we are back to fret buzz, uncertain technique, etc etc...

 

The more I read the answers here, the more looks like it's not about natural sustain...:)

 

[codamedia]

On 10/9/2022 at 8:42 AM, toddkc said:

It does not make any difference with the Helix, but I would guess it's working with (or fighting with) the input impedance setting.

 

Input impedance only matters to the guitar.... the JHS will not be fighting with the input imp of the Helix. With that test you just gave the guitar something different to look at... if nothing changed, then there is nothing to take away from the test :) (actually, that's a good thing)

 

Can you post an audio example of your preset so we can hear what you are hearing? Nobody that has tried it seems to hear a problem, but we haven't actually "heard" your problem to compare it to. 

 

 

[toddkc]

I appreciate all the replies everyone.  I think I'm gonna send it back and exchange and see if the next one does the same, and if so I'll troubleshoot more.  Thanks!

[CraigGT]

On 10/9/2022 at 6:20 PM, rd2rk said:

 

There's no Global Gate.

True, my mistake but there is one as part of the input settings that's not as obvious as having a gate block in a patch.

 

 

[codamedia]

On 10/9/2022 at 4:34 PM, toddkc said:

I appreciate all the replies everyone.  I think I'm gonna send it back and exchange and see if the next one does the same, and if so I'll troubleshoot more.  Thanks!

 

Just an FYI.... I loaded up your preset (and chose an IR of my own) and like the others I don't hear anything out of the ordinary in regards to sustain. Using a vintage output Tele everything sounded normal with the +12 gain block turned off..... with it on I was in Santana territory. FWIW... I leave my input imp set to 1M (fixed).

 

So yeah.... either something is wrong with your Helix and/or it's global settings, or we have a very different understanding of what sustain is. That's why I had hoped to hear an audio sample of what you are hearing. 

[HonestOpinion]

On 10/6/2022 at 5:27 PM, toddkc said:

Hey everyone, I am having an issue and assume it's mainly just my lack of knowledge on how I should solve it.  So I have three guitars, a Godin XTSA, an ibanez S670, and an Epiphone with Fishman Fluence pickups.  The Godin and Ibanez just have their respective branded pickups, nothing aftermarket.  My issue is that all three guitars get NO sustain at all through my helix (and previously my pod go).  I've tried all sorts of patch creation, and at this point I have the input gate off, pad off, impedence auto (first enabled), a compressor up front going into a boost and then a high-gain amp, using various combos of cabs, dual-cabs, and IRs.  I hit a note above the 12th-fret, hold it and add a touch of vibrato, and it decays almost instantly.  It's awful!  I know there are "high-output" pickups, and people spend money on dimarzio/seymourduncan/whatever pickups because they are better than godin/ibanez branded pickups.  But I thought when I got the fishman fluence one it would be different.  Nope.  No sustain at all.  My ibanez has a floyd and the instant I try to use that on a note....note dies.  For the record I have also tried a lot of pickup height adjustments on all three guitars to see if any higher/lower positions help.  No difference, until I get to the extremes of course.  I also have several different cables and even a wireless setup I have tried for getting the guitar to the helix.

 

So....the only thing I have found that works is adding a +12db gain block up front.  I really don't want to waste the block though if I can avoid it.  And none of the presets I've downloaded do this, but the videos always seem to have great lead lines with gobs of sustain. 

 

I would love to get some advice that could help me learn a bit and solve my issue.  Thanks!

 

This is mystifying. You seem to have checked the most likely sustain-killers, e.g., too aggressive a gate setting, cables, guitars. Have you missed something in your signal chain? Did you try comparing exactly the same guitar and cables with just swapping out the Boss for the Helix? Do you have your expression/volume pedal too close to heel down, or the volume control on your guitar too low? A compressor or overdrive in front of just about any amp model with the gain turned up should give you sustain for days. The fact that you say that you had an issue with sustain on both your Pod Go and your Helix makes me think that swapping out for a different Helix is unlikely to resolve your issue. Have you tried using wired headphones to monitor with? My first guess would still be a gate not bypassed, compressor set incorrectly, or a bad cable.

 

Also, when all else fails, take a backup, do a factory reset, restore backup. Reinstall HX Edit and update firmware again if necessary.

[datacommando]

On 10/10/2022 at 2:07 PM, codamedia said:

That's why I had hoped to hear an audio sample of what you are hearing. 

 

On 10/14/2022 at 5:56 AM, HonestOpinion said:

This is mystifying…
 

The fact that you say that you had an issue with sustain on both your Pod Go and your Helix makes me think that swapping out for a different Helix is unlikely to resolve your issue. 

 

Agreed - I cannot comprehend what is happening here, the preset functions just fine for other users. It would be really remarkable to find 2 different units displaying the exact same fault. There has to be something else here that we are all missing, but having checked out the supplied preset, for the life of me I just don’t understand this.

 

I really think, as “codamedia” suggested, an audio clip would give us all a better idea of what the issue might be.

Weird Scenes Inside the Gold Mine

 

 

[somebodyelse]

I haven't read every reply, so apologies if it's already been said.

12dB gain at the input... and all three guitars?

I'd be looking at the noisegate in the input section, for starters. I hate noisegates with a passion, I'd rather have noise than notes getting cut off, however if it's set higher than -60dB, then I'd be looking to fix whatever is causing the noise.

Other thing to look at, is there a problem with your cable? They tend to either work or not, but I'd check anyway.

Lastly, we've all done daft things and not noticed, are you actually plugged in to the right input?

[toddkc]

On 10/15/2022 at 8:25 AM, somebodyelse said:

I haven't read every reply, so apologies if it's already been said.

12dB gain at the input... and all three guitars?

I'd be looking at the noisegate in the input section, for starters. I hate noisegates with a passion, I'd rather have noise than notes getting cut off, however if it's set higher than -60dB, then I'd be looking to fix whatever is causing the noise.

Other thing to look at, is there a problem with your cable? They tend to either work or not, but I'd check anyway.

Lastly, we've all done daft things and not noticed, are you actually plugged in to the right input?

I appreciate yours and everybody else's replies.  As I've said, no noise gate and no pad enabled.  I have multiple cables and even a wireless I've tried.  And yes, I am of course plugged into the correct input.  I know there is no way to prove these things, but I've done all the basic checks.  I bought new so it is easy to exchange, and I went ahead and bought a Digitech Freqout so when I get the new one it won't matter either way.  Between the freqout, gain block, and compressor, I'll get my presets sounding the way I want!  I also have enough cables now that I can 4CM the helix with my catalyst amp and see if that has different results.

 

Thanks all!

[PierM]

On 10/15/2022 at 3:43 PM, toddkc said:

I bought new so it is easy to exchange, and I went ahead and bought a Digitech Freqout so when I get the new one it won't matter either way.

 

Thanks all!

 

This proves my point; wasnt about sustain. Was about feedback. Apples and oranges. ;)

 

 

[toddkc]

On 10/15/2022 at 10:40 AM, PierM said:

 

This proves my point; wasnt about sustain. Was about feedback. Apples and oranges. ;)

 

 

I disagree, but whatever.  I appreciate all the help.  Not gonna debate semantics.  Feedback and sustain are two different things, I'm well aware of the differences.

[cruisinon2]

Scanning through all of this, I find it hard to believe that it has anything to do with the Helix at all, but rather it would seem to be a setup issue with the guitars. Super low action can make notes die the way you describe. You may simply need to adjust the neck relief, and/ or action a bit.

 

Does the same thing occur with these instruments if you play through some other amp, taking the Helix out of the equation entirely? You can also just test it plugged into nothing, in a nice quiet room. If the notes aren't ringing out acoustically for any normal length of time, then what you're playing through is irrelevant. You seem to have ruled out most issues with the Helix itself... that being the case, the guitars are the only other place to look.

[toddkc]

On 10/16/2022 at 10:44 AM, cruisinon2 said:

Scanning through all of this, I find it hard to believe that it has anything to do with the Helix at all, but rather it would seem to be a setup issue with the guitars. Super low action can make notes die the way you describe. You may simply need to adjust the neck relief, and/ or action a bit.

 

Does the same thing occur with these instruments if you play through some other amp, taking the Helix out of the equation entirely? You can also just test it plugged into nothing, in a nice quiet room. If the notes aren't ringing out acoustically for any normal length of time, then what you're playing through is irrelevant. You seem to have ruled out most issues with the Helix itself... that being the case, the guitars are the only other place to look.

I definitely think that may be a factor.  It would make sense that since I do all my own setups (and have no training for that beyond youtube) and I have this same issue with all my guitars on both my line 6 products...clearly that is a possible culprit.  The ruler I use to do my setups is one of those business-card shaped dealies from amazon and was super cheap.  Maybe I need to check it and all my strings are lower than what I think.  They feel fine, but again, you do have a point.  I may adjust one to be significantly higher and see if that solves it.  I may even take one to a pro to get it setup and specify that I'd like to know what they change to see what I may be doing wrong.

[boynigel]

On 10/6/2022 at 5:27 PM, toddkc said:

I hit a note above the 12th-fret, hold it and add a touch of vibrato, and it decays almost instantly.

sounds like possible dead spot issues due to sympathetic frequency cancellation.   see if it gets better or worse if you go up or down a couple frets.  obviously notes aren't going to sustain above the 12th fret like they do at the 5th, but they shouldn't decay instantly either.

[theElevators]

If you are talking about a Strat, g-string on the 12th fret dying, this is most likely due to the neck pickup's "vintage" pole piece heights.  That was done to compensate for g-strings in the 1950's not being loud enough compared to the other strings. 

 

In short, the g-string used to be wound, and now it's solid.  When USA strats are sold, the pickups are for some unknown reason following this vintage pole piece height specs.  In reality, there is no need to boost the signal from the g-string, as it is now loud enough because most string sets do not have a wound g-string, it's a solid g-string.  As a result, most of these USA strats suffer from "choking" of the g-string on 12th fret -- very little sustain. 

 

So you have 3 options: 1) embrace it as a cool "instant SRV" hack.  or 2) move the pole piece down .. or 3) use vintage-spec strings.