Theoretically Can HX FX add amp blocks?

[k-grimm403]

I know that is not what it was initially designed for but… With the HX stomp getting command center and 8 blocks in the most recent updates Is there any reason why the HX FX couldn’t get the amp models?

[codamedia]

IMO... it's easier to just buy the right product for your needs than worry about stuff like this.

It doesn't matter if it's theoretically possible or not.... you nailed it with your opening line. 

 

On 10/27/2022 at 7:36 PM, k-grimm403 said:

I know that is not what it was initially designed for

 

[silverhead]

On 10/27/2022 at 8:36 PM, k-grimm403 said:

....Is there any reason why the HX FX couldn’t get the amp models?

Yes - because it's the HX FX, designed as an FX only device, intended to be used in a traditional FX pedalboard setup by players who use physical amps and don't want amp models. That's why it exists. To add amp models would deny its raison d'etre.

[datacommando]

On 10/28/2022 at 1:36 AM, k-grimm403 said:

 Is there any reason why the HX FX couldn’t get the amp models?

Yes - it’s totally pointless.

 

From the HX Effects promo page:-

 

“The HX Effects^™ processor was designed to be integrated into traditional amp and pedal setups and may serve as anything from a dedicated multi-effects unit to the command center for your entire rig. Although compact in size, it delivers the same professional-grade sound quality and authentic HX^® Modeling found in our market-leading Helix^® processors.”

 

Theoretically, if you take the HX FX with it’s scribble strips and added amp and cab modelling, put it in a large solid aluminium enclosure with lots of in/out options, plus extra footswitches, a large colour screen and a chunky expression pedal- then you really would have something interesting! Oh, yeah - that’s a Helix.

 

Alternatively, you could patch into a Strymon Iridium, SansAmp GT2, Humboldt Simplifier or even a NUX Amplifier Academy (with an FX Loop), or any one of the many other similar Amp/Cab modelling units that are available, to achieve what you envisioned. Hmm… HX Stomp has the amps and cabs.

The correct tool for the job?

 

[PierM]

From a mere DSP standpoint, the HXFX hosts the same SHARK Chip as the rest of the family. This means it could probably run an amp/cab block algorithm as any other HX device, but there is an important hardware difference; the HX FX doesn't offer the same impedance circuit at the input, because wasn't designed to drive the amp block with the proper "circuit load". (downside of that same aspect, is that fuzzes aren't behaving the same as the full Helix/HX)

 

Then, from a market standpoint, not sure would be a good move to change the core purpose of a product, years after its launch.

[SaschaFranck]

On 10/28/2022 at 12:27 PM, PierM said:

Then, from a market standpoint, not sure would be a good move to change the core purpose of a product, years after its launch.

 

I'm sure that this (in case the other points weren't sufficient enough already) would be the main issue. Adding amp modeling to the HX FX years after launch would make Line 6's marketing department (among others) look quite questionable.

 

I'd further guess that this is part of the success story of the Stomp XL (in case it is a success story, which I obviously don't happen to know).

 

Personally, I'd actually like a "middle ground" unit. Somewhat more CPU power (and hence blocks) as in the Stomp, smaller than the Helix. Kinda like a Half-Helix. The Floor is way too big and heavy to make it into any normal suitcase or backpack, the Stomps are underpowered in case you want to get along with a single patch per gig (which is what I'm doing for reasons possibly known already). Ok as a backup or for single-tone-gigs, though (or as a delay/verb only device, which is what I'm mainly using my Stomp for).

In fact, I'd have loved to see L6 coming up with something along the lines of the GT-1000 Core. Full horsepower, small enough to fit in a gigbag, capable of quite some switching extensions.

 

Whatever, technically, I'd take any bet they could add amp models to the HX FX - but I'd also take any bet on them not doing so.

 

[k-grimm403]

On 10/27/2022 at 8:09 PM, codamedia said:

IMO... it's easier to just buy the right product for your needs than worry about stuff like this.

It doesn't matter if it's theoretically possible or not.... you nailed it with your opening line. 

 

 

For reference for everyone on this post, I 100% agree buy the right products for your needs. I currently own a helix rack that’s hooked up in my studio and before that had a floor model since v1.0. I also have had an hx fx and have tried the lite and stomp. A product for my needs currently would be an hxfx with amp models and while I realize it most likely will never happen I don’t agree it shouldn’t. Scribble strips and midi command center is completely worth having the hxfx on the board I’m building alone. I do really wish the stomp did it for me but I hate the screen interface so much and having that much power in control center on a midi centric board without scribble strips or another external controller kills the power and efficiency for me

 

On that note though the stomp initially was designed to not have control center a large thing the hxfx had going for it in the beginning because that’s not what it was meant for. Line 6 changed that. The stomp also didn’t have more that 6 blocks because it wasn’t needed because dsp limited that. Line 6 changed that. The stomp was not initially capable of having multiple switch controls to have the capability of doing much more than snapshots and presets. Line 6 came out with the club stomp. If they had an hx fx sized helix that could fit on my pedal board with scribble strips and control center id be happy to pay a premium for it. As is from a technical stand point I don’t get why after years of it being in the wild it’s gotten the least functionality upgrade of the entire line. I guess the sales never took off the way the stomp did which would be totally understandable. But a boy can dream

 

On 10/28/2022 at 4:09 AM, datacommando said:

Yes - it’s totally pointless.

 

From the HX Effects promo page:-

 

“The HX Effects^™ processor was designed to be integrated into traditional amp and pedal setups and may serve as anything from a dedicated multi-effects unit to the command center for your entire rig. Although compact in size, it delivers the same professional-grade sound quality and authentic HX^® Modeling found in our market-leading Helix^® processors.”

 

Theoretically, if you take the HX FX with it’s scribble strips and added amp and cab modelling, put it in a large solid aluminium enclosure with lots of in/out options, plus extra footswitches, a large colour screen and a chunky expression pedal- then you really would have something interesting! Oh, yeah - that’s a Helix.

 

Alternatively, you could patch into a Strymon Iridium, SansAmp GT2, Humboldt Simplifier or even a NUX Amplifier Academy (with an FX Loop), or any one of the many other similar Amp/Cab modelling units that are available, to achieve what you envisioned. Hmm… HX Stomp has the amps and cabs.

The correct tool for the job?

 

How does adding functionality the rest of the helix line have pointless? Was adding control center and the two extra blocks in the stomp pointless as well? also The helix floor is marketed as:

“Line 6 Helix Guitar Multi-effects Floor Processor” 

So in that line of thinking I guess it shouldn’t have amps either? I completely understand that this was not what it was initially designed for but having said that half the functionality of the helix line in its current form was not necessarily what it was initially designed for. It’s an evolving ecosystem and I love it for what it currently is and has been since version 1.0. As for the entire second half of your post I literally don’t want any of what you mentioned except amp capability. The helix is way way too big and adding a second amp pedal is course the solution available (there is a ruby sitting in my Sweetwater cart haha)currently but that adds size to a small pedal board too. And as stated earlier I hate the stomp from a ui stand point so that’s out. The correct tool for my job would literally be an hxfx with amps. I know that doesn’t exist. I was just wondering if people knew if it was a technical limitation or just a marketing decision/choice As it doesn’t seem like something that would be too hard to implement.

 

On the flip side a small factor amp/cab only helix would be a stellar addition to the line as well… if wishes were fishes I guess

[theElevators]

1. I'm sure you can even get clever and approximate an amp block with a compressor, EQ block and an IR...

2. You can buy Joyo American Sound, or any other Joyo amp pedal, and run it in the loop -- it sounds great, only around $45...

https://www.amazon.com/JOYO-American-Guitar-Overdrive-Effect/dp/B08NB9L73M/

https://youtu.be/S-JHefdx_is

 

If somebody hacked an HX Effects, it would be possible to add an amp.  It's like a GPS device can be hacked and turned into a touch screen computer running Windows mobile... The capability is there, but hidden from the user, so that each device performs its designated function, and nothing more. 

BTW, did you know that most of the early Motown guitar and bass tracks were recorded without a guitar/bass amp?  Everything was recorded straight into the mixer. 

 

 

[k-grimm403]

Hmm… maybe I should look into “tone matching” amps to an overdrive with an ir….

 

I think prince ran directly into his ssl for years if I remember correctly… Cory Wong does it often too especially in early vulfpeck stuff.

[theElevators]

Here's an anecdote:

3-4 years ago I was asked to play a solo during somebody's set, some blues shuffle.  That person only had an acoustic guitar, an inexpensive Martin.  He also had a Keeley-moded DS-1. 

 

We didn't have any time for a sound check, I just went on stage, plugged in, ran the acoustic into the distortion and out into a DI-box.  I took the DS-1's tone knob and turned it down so it was not harsh, but bluesy and tube'y sounding.  I spent about 10 seconds adjusting my sound, so that it sounded passable. 

 

Long story short, that performance blew people's minds, and several people years later still say "wow, that was the best guitar tone I've ever heard" and "I've never heard an acoustic guitar sound that good!".  I had no clue it was that amazing... I thought they were pulling my leg. 

 

So there you go, an acoustic guitar, a DS-1 and no guitar amp sounded apparently phenomenal.  Just a happy accident. 

[somebodyelse]

On 10/28/2022 at 1:36 AM, k-grimm403 said:

I know that is not what it was initially designed for but… With the HX stomp getting command center and 8 blocks in the most recent updates Is there any reason why the HX FX couldn’t get the amp models?

Yes and no.

Any fx unit that does reverbs and pitch shifters is more than capable of doing amp modelling without breaking a sweat.

 

The reason you won't see it happen is because Line 6, and every other manufacturer, isn't going to produce a cheaper version of their flagship product that does everything the flagship does.

They will always leave something out, because they want you to buy, in this case, The Helix.

[drewdemaio]

Very late to the convo here. Just used the Legendary Drive block with a York Audio Greenback IR in my HX effects and it sounded great to me. The Legendary Drive has 3-band EQ, drive and presence and as it's modeled after the Carvin VLD-1 (a tube preamp pedal), it's basically a pre-amp block in itself.  Add a good IR and BOOM. You have an amp and one that sounds pretty damn good IMO. Drive pedals are just basically pre-amps anyway so if you use with a decent quality IR, you can absolutely have an amp tone. Something that is passable at least. I'm probably not as tonally picky as some so would love someone else to try this and let me know their thoughts. 

[rbosque]

I'm very late to the conversation and I'm 300+ miles away from my HX EFFECTS so I can't just turn it on and explore but I have a question.  I do, however have my Helix Floor in front of me and I noticed that in the 4-Cable Method template, there is a way to use different preamps in the FX Loop of my amp, thus bypassing the amp's preamp section.   Does the HX EFFECTS have preamp blocks that can be used the same way?

[Schmalle]

On 4/30/2024 at 3:21 PM, rbosque said:

I'm very late to the conversation and I'm 300+ miles away from my HX EFFECTS so I can't just turn it on and explore but I have a question.  I do, however have my Helix Floor in front of me and I noticed that in the 4-Cable Method template, there is a way to use different preamps in the FX Loop of my amp, thus bypassing the amp's preamp section.   Does the HX EFFECTS have preamp blocks that can be used the same way?

No, the preamps are not in the HX Effects. There are some candidates in the distortion block though. In particular the Legendary Drive (Carvin® VLD1 Legacy Drive) comes to mind. But some others can deliver nice preamp-like results when combined with post EQ from e.g. a Simple EQ.

[datacommando]

On 4/30/2024 at 2:21 PM, rbosque said:

I'm very late to the conversation and I'm 300+ miles away from my HX EFFECTS so I can't just turn it on and explore but I have a question.  I do, however have my Helix Floor in front of me and I noticed that in the 4-Cable Method template, there is a way to use different preamps in the FX Loop of my amp, thus bypassing the amp's preamp section.   Does the HX EFFECTS have preamp blocks that can be used the same way?

 

Hi, 

 

You may be 300+ miles away from your HXFX, but you are only a click away from the HX Effects 3.0 Owner's Manual (click link below)

 

https://line6.com/data/6/0a020a411710a6112a67116f0b/application/pdf/HX Effects 3.0 Owner's Manual - English .pdf

 

Apart from the instance in the post above regarding the Legendary Drive (Carvin® VLD1 Hi Gain Channel), or possibly the Regal Bass DI (Noble Preamp Bass DI), both the HXFX, and HX One, don't have any of the regular pre-amps onboard as in the other HX devices, but it does have the option to use the 4CM, and is illustrated on Page 10 of the Manual.

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.