Convince me! (Please)

[serronej]

I have unfortunately strayed from Line6 for a few years after my DT50 let down. So I am seriously considering a Helix now but hesitant to pull the trigger. I need someone to shoot me straight. (Apologies if this is a stupid question) Is lossless transition between amp models possible? If I had it my way, I’d be able to switch between multiple amps/effects during the same song with zero or unnoticeable latency. Is it possible with the Helix? If so how (if its not obvious)?

 

[Kilrahi]

We all hate the Helix here.  I'd ask the Fractal forum.

[HonestOpinion]

On 11/10/2022 at 9:53 PM, serronej said:

I have unfortunately strayed from Line6 for a few years after my DT50 let down. So I am seriously considering a Helix now but hesitant to pull the trigger. I need someone to shoot me straight. (Apologies if this is a stupid question) Is lossless transition between amp models possible? If I had it my way, I’d be able to switch between multiple amps/effects during the same song with zero or unnoticeable latency. Is it possible with the Helix? If so how (if its not obvious)?

 

 

You can use snapshots (scenes) for gapless switching between different, amps, or amp channels. You can also use the Helix's option to do "minimal" gap switching between presets but that will halve the processing power available in a single preset.  Take a look at the 'Global Settings' --> Preferences --> 'Preset Spillover' option.

[serronej]

Thank you that sounds good. But I dont have one yet…so I am hoping someone has some live experience with this?

[Kilrahi]

On 11/10/2022 at 8:08 PM, serronej said:

Thank you that sounds good. But I dont have one yet…so I am hoping someone has some live experience with this?

 

Tons do.  If you'll embrace snapshots and the Helix design there is next to nothing you can't do.  If you're rigid and inflexible to your own ideas about how it should be,  then you'll be disappointed. 

[rd2rk]

On 11/10/2022 at 7:53 PM, serronej said:

I have unfortunately strayed from Line6 for a few years after my DT50 let down. So I am seriously considering a Helix now but hesitant to pull the trigger. I need someone to shoot me straight. (Apologies if this is a stupid question) Is lossless transition between amp models possible? If I had it my way, I’d be able to switch between multiple amps/effects during the same song with zero or unnoticeable latency. Is it possible with the Helix? If so how (if its not obvious)?

 

 

I use up to 3 amps glitch-free in complex presets with multiple FX, controlling it all with a combination of Snapshots and FS assignments of individual parameters.

At the same time I use MIDI from CommandCenter to control external devices (Catalyst100, Powercab212+) and my DAW, including the plugins within it.

The new stereo cabs - with newly shot (not the original) factory cabs which allow the mics to be moved in all directions, or dual IR cabs - sound terrific.

And, of course, they'll keep adding features through FREE updates until the device is maxxed out, which according to L6, won't be for a while yet. They keep improving the CORE to make even more possible. IOW, NO, a new HW platform is NOT imminent. 

 

BUY IT! YOU'LL LIKE IT!

[PierM]

Just do your own research. There are like billions of youtube folks doing intensive tests and showing off every single detail of these things, A/B'ing them all etc.. Then, if you have a local store with an HX machine on the floor, just test it yourself.

 

 

 

[joanesinu]

I had the Kemper Stage and sold it because the preset changes had a lag between them. In helix the effects ON/OFF are instantaneous. Also, the snapshot changes into the same preset are instantaneous, 0 lag. So you can activate multiple effects with 1 footswitch with no latency. I haven't check the preset change latency, but for each song I have 1 preset with different snapshots (Effect parameters).

 

My unit is the Helix effects.

[MusicLaw]

@serronej, as you may already know, DSP consumption of the individual Amp Block selections and FX Block selections in Line 6's firmware varies depending on the particular Amp or FX Block selected for use in your Signal Chain. The Floor, LT and Rack units each have Dual DSP chips and thus have twice the processing capacity than the single DSP chip HX Stomp, HX Stomp XL, and HX FX units (HX FX has no amps).

 

Even with the single DSP HX Stomp and HX Stomp XL, it is entirely possible to use two different Amp Blocks -- depending on the Amps you select -- in your signal chain, in addition to a Cab or Dual Cab Block plus FX Blocks. The full Helix Units (Floor, LT, Rack) have even more capacity for multiple Amp selections. 

 

Within a single Preset you may define one Amp bypassed while another is enabled, both, enabled, and even different parameter settings for each using footswitch configurations. In addition to Presets, Helix Firmware also provides Snapshots. These are akin to having Presets within a Preset. There are Three available on the HX Stomp, Four on the HX Stomp XL, and Eight available on the Floor, LT, and Rack. Each Preset you define allows for up to Sixty-Four parameter changes or Bypass assignments without any lag nor interruption. Switching between and amongst Presets does involve a momentary interruption as each new Preset loads in from the device's memory. However, once loaded any Preset you created containing Snapshots allows for nearly instantaneous switching between and amongst Snapshots -- within that Preset.  As @HonestOpinionmentioned earlier in this thread the Preset Spillover feature available in the Helix Floor, LT, and Rack is a Global Parameter setting which allows dedicating the second DSP chip to essentially mirror the first, thereby allowing for instantaneous switching between and amongst Presets (at the cost of reducing DSP capacity for other Signal Chain uses).

 

If you want to explore multiple amp block and FX combinations before you buy the device, download the Helix Native from Line6's site. Once loaded as a Plugin to your DAW or VSTHost, simply change Preferences > Hardware Compatibility from the Default setting of Floor/LT/Rack to HX Stomp or HX Stomp XL, and you will see what Amp Block selections remain available as you build a sample Signal Chain in the software. Helix Native is available as a Full Featured Free Trial, and should you buy a Helix, it is available to Helix Device owners for $99. And, a few times each year for Helix device owners, Line 6 puts it on 30% discount bringing the price down to $79 USD. 

 

As @rd2rkalready posted, do it! You'll likely be delighted. And, if you buy from a vendor with a satisfaction guarantee, should you not be satisfied, return it for something else.  

[zappazapper]

Switching presets will always cause an audible gap.

 

Gapless switching is possible WITHIN THE SAME PRESET by using Snapshots.

 

The Snapshots philosophy is that audible gaps are the result of blocks from the previous preset being unloaded FROM memory, and blocks from the next preset betting loaded INTO memory. If a block is already loaded into memory but bypassed, "unbypassing" that block doesn't result in an audible gap. Similarly, bypassing multiple blocks while unbypassing other multiple blocks also doesn't result in an audible gap, since they're all already loaded into memory.

 

Now, that's all well and fine, but switching the bypass states of multiple blocks at the same time using separate footswitches assigned to each individual block is, at best, inconvenient. So Snapshots allows us to switch the bypass states (and block parameter values, and MIDI messages, and a bunch of other things) of every block in the preset, all at the same time, using a single footswitch. It's called Snapshots because you're essentially taking pictures of the bypass states and parameter values required for each "sound" needed in a song and saving them to be recalled when needed. 

 

Since you said you don't currently own a Helix, I won't get into the details of HOW to use Snapshots for your stated "multiple amps/effects" scenario (and there is already plenty of info on the subject in the manual and here on this forum), but the point is that the Snapshots feature is specifically designed to avoid audible gaps when transitioning from wildly different sounds within a song. 

[datacommando]

On 11/12/2022 at 3:35 AM, zappazapper said:

Switching presets will always cause an audible gap.

 

Not that I have ever needed to use it, but isn't that what "True Preset Spillover" was supposed to fix when it was introduced?

[zappazapper]

On 11/12/2022 at 9:43 AM, datacommando said:

 

Not that I have ever needed to use it, but isn't that what "True Preset Spillover" was supposed to fix when it was introduced?

True Preset Spillover results in a MINIMAL gap, as even though dumping the blocks from the previous preset is independent of loading in the blocks for the next preset, there's no way to predict what the next preset is going to be until the user hits the switch to select it, so the Helix can't begin loading blocks until that happens, so that part of the gap remains. 

 

True Preset Spillover is, as the name suggests, more about allowing delay and reverb trails from the previous preset than it is about removing the audible gap between presets. It's my understanding that it was provided for those who refuse to (or "prefer not to", if I wanna be nice) embrace the Snapshots philosophy, as those of us who have embraced it know that, with a bit of creative preset design, Snapshots will provide all the spillover that TPS will, AND completely remove audible gaps that occur between sounds within a preset. 

[HonestOpinion]

On 11/12/2022 at 9:57 AM, zappazapper said:

True Preset Spillover results in a MINIMAL gap, as even though dumping the blocks from the previous preset is independent of loading in the blocks for the next preset, there's no way to predict what the next preset is going to be until the user hits the switch to select it, so the Helix can't begin loading blocks until that happens, so that part of the gap remains. 

 

True Preset Spillover is, as the name suggests, more about allowing delay and reverb trails from the previous preset than it is about removing the audible gap between presets. It's my understanding that it was provided for those who refuse to (or "prefer not to", if I wanna be nice) embrace the Snapshots philosophy, as those of us who have embraced it know that, with a bit of creative preset design, Snapshots will provide all the spillover that TPS will, AND completely remove audible gaps that occur between sounds within a preset. 

 

Line 6's use of the word "minimal" in the manual's description of 'True Preset Spillover' was very intentional. The gap is definitely significantly reduced though, if not totally eliminated. Fantastic option for those who need it though and a major addition to the Helix's flexibility. Line6 pretty much established a best practice and a high bar for any modern modeler when they added this sort of hybrid ability. Scenes pretty much do everything I need for the most part though.

[zappazapper]

On 11/12/2022 at 3:42 PM, HonestOpinion said:

Fantastic option for those who need it though and a major addition to the Helix's flexibility. Line6 pretty much established a best practice and a high bar for any modern modeler when they added this.

I disagree. Look, the option is there, and anybody who pays money for their unit is allowed to operate it however they like, and they don't owe me an explanation. Game set match there. 

 

But that option was created to cater to people who refused to grow out of the "single sound per preset" paradigm that existed before L6 introduced Snapshots. There's no benefit to it other than it keeps certain users from having to take the time to learn how Snapshots work. There's nothing you can do sonically or control-wise with TPS that you couldn't do with Snapshots, and there's plenty you can do with Snapshots that you can't with TPS. 

 

But the topic of this thread is gapless transitions, and so yes, TPS is one way that a user can work in a nearly gap-free environment. I'll concede that it's probably better to use it, than to work "single sound per preset" and not use it. But there's significant benefit to using Snapshots over TPS (more blocks, completely gapless), with the only cost being that you have to read the manual and figure out how it works, which is something you should do when you drop a couple grand on a piece of equipment anyway. No cost in terms of sonics or control, or even ease-of-use once you've done the work to know how to use it. 

[HonestOpinion]

On 11/12/2022 at 4:22 PM, zappazapper said:

I disagree. Look, the option is there, and anybody who pays money for their unit is allowed to operate it however they like, and they don't owe me an explanation. Game set match there. 

 

But that option was created to cater to people who refused to grow out of the "single sound per preset" paradigm that existed before L6 introduced Snapshots. There's no benefit to it other than it keeps certain users from having to take the time to learn how Snapshots work. There's nothing you can do sonically or control-wise with TPS that you couldn't do with Snapshots, and there's plenty you can do with Snapshots that you can't with TPS. 

 

But the topic of this thread is gapless transitions, and so yes, TPS is one way that a user can work in a nearly gap-free environment. I'll concede that it's probably better to use it, than to work "single sound per preset" and not use it. But there's significant benefit to using Snapshots over TPS (more blocks, completely gapless), with the only cost being that you have to read the manual and figure out how it works, which is something you should do when you drop a couple grand on a piece of equipment anyway. No cost in terms of sonics or control, or even ease-of-use once you've done the work to know how to use it. 

 

Not quite sure what you are disagreeing with? Are you asserting that the option to have either gapless scenes, which accommodate most scenarios, or an almost gapless preset switching with spillover for those who require it, is a bad thing? Options like this offer the best of both worlds. I agree most users find snapshots meet most or all of their switching requirements, but for some, likely a minority, they require presets. They are not all just being stubborn, stuck in their old ways, and "refusing to grow", though I suppose there are some, particularly before they try snapshots, who fit that description.

 

I myself fall into the snapshot for pretty much everything camp and have advocated snapshots many times over the years to players who are unfamiliar with them and therefore convinced that they need gapless preset switching. Often it is a matter of being flexible and learning a new approach. But not always. Some players and songs require preset switching. Why not give them a "minimal" gap option? Seems like a win-win to me.

 

I patently reject your statement "There's nothing you can do sonically or control-wise with TPS that you couldn't do with Snapshots". That sounds like a bit of an overstatement and verges on being equally as inflexible as those who insist gapless preset switching is the only acceptable option for a modeler. I will concede that providing TPS may have been a marketing move to some extent to mollify a vocal minority as well as a gift to players who believe the lack of this feature to be a dealbreaker. I do appreciate your enthusiasm for snapshots though and share it.

[zappazapper]

On 11/12/2022 at 7:32 PM, HonestOpinion said:

Not quite sure what you are disagreeing with? Are you asserting that the option to have either gapless scenes, which accommodate most scenarios, or an almost gapless preset switching with spillover for those who require it, is a bad thing?

 

On 11/12/2022 at 7:32 PM, HonestOpinion said:

I patently reject your statement "There's nothing you can do sonically or control-wise with TPS that you couldn't do with Snapshots".

I'd be interested to read what you think can be done with TPS and not Snapshots, because my assertion is that it's not required, it's just preferred by people who are still in the old multi-fx paradigm. And again, fair enough, they paid their money and they can use the thing wrong if they want. But...

On 11/12/2022 at 3:42 PM, HonestOpinion said:

Line6 pretty much established a best practice and a high bar for any modern modeler when they added this sort of hybrid ability.

Absolutely not. It's the guitar equivalent of insisting on using a Perly's map book when you have an Android phone with Google Maps in your pocket. It's inferior in every single way other than the alternative requires the user to temporarily struggle to learn how to use it. And I'll say a third time, it's all good, you paid for the unit, you can do what you want, but I don't have to pretend like it's some kind of "added feature". But again, as this thread is about whether gapless operation is possible, I'll concede that TPS will get you closer to gapless use than not using it, if you're not going to bother to use Snapshots in the first place.

[HonestOpinion]

On 11/12/2022 at 7:59 PM, zappazapper said:

 

I'd be interested to read what you think can be done with TPS and not Snapshots, because my assertion is that it's not required, it's just preferred by people who are still in the old multi-fx paradigm ...

 

This is a tough ask as I am a snapshot user. Maybe some of the players who use TPS could answer this better. But here goes:

 

• I have seen some users here claim that they don't have enough snapshots available to execute a complicated piece. Might seem crazy to us as eight is generally more than enough, but different strokes...This gives them a way to jump from preset to preset, cumulatively using as many snapshots as they need. Seems like just adding a second page of eight snaps would be a better solution for them though.
• Players who prefer their switches be primarily used for stomps rather than snapshots and would rather jump to another preset with lots of stomps rather than allotting their switches to snapshots. Admittedly learning to better employ snapshots might be a better solution for some of these folks.
• Wacky routing/output switches. I don't do 'em but maybe some do.
• Some players have a go-to lead/solo sound they want on tap at all times. This gives them a way to jump over to it.
• Some players simply have a simple signal chain and losing half their DSP/blocks is no big deal. Switching presets within a song suits their old school sensibilities. Who am I to judge.
• It's worth it having the TPS option just to never again have to see anyone post how the Digitech GSP1101 has had gapless preset switching with spillover since the Neolithic era.
• Ummm.... I don't know because I use snapshots. You are preaching to the choir. As long as gapless preset switching with spillover continues to cost half the DSP and blocks, and it is hard to imagine how they get around this, the benefits of TPS seem limited. I happen to agree with you that most of what can be done with presets can be done with snapshots with the benefit of having the full complement of DSP and all four paths at your disposal. I just think it is cool the option is there. Whether it is important to me or not. And if it helps sell more units, well that is just more available resources for R&D.

 

Btw [chuckle], is anyone else reminded of the film "Office Space" whenever they hear "TPS".

[Paulzx]

On 11/11/2022 at 2:56 AM, Kilrahi said:

We all hate the Helix here.  I'd ask the Fractal forum.

Ironically, that is an area the helix is probably better than the Fractal lol

[zappazapper]

On 11/12/2022 at 10:26 PM, HonestOpinion said:

I have seen some users here claim that they don't have enough snapshots available to execute a complicated piece. 

If I had a song that required more than 8 Snapshots, after talking myself out of slitting my wrists, I would find a place in the song where the lack of trails and a slight gap in audio created by a preset change would do the least damage.

 

However, it did occur to me when they gave us "Per-Snapshot Command Center > HX Snpsht Values" that the 8 Snapshot limit should be expanded. I'm assuming that the limit was based on the fact that there were only 8 footswitches that could be used to call Snapshots, but now that the assignments in Stomp Footswitch Mode can be changed per Snapshot, we could theoretically create an unlimited string of Snapshot calls from a single footswitch. So for these pathetic creatures, I've created this Ideascale post:

 

https://line6.ideascale.com/c/idea/1054276

 

On 11/12/2022 at 10:26 PM, HonestOpinion said:

Players who prefer their switches be primarily used for stomps rather than snapshots and would rather jump to another preset with lots of stomps rather than allotting their switches to snapshots. Admittedly learning to better employ snapshots might be a better solution for some of these folks.

Similarly to the first problem, if I had a song that needed that many stomps, I would accept that the problem is ME and not the Helix, and accept that I have to find somewhere in the song where a preset change isn't going to completely wreck the song (which it wouldn't anyway).

 

However, it also occured to me when they gave us "Per-Snapshot Command Center > HX Snpsht Values", that they should also give us the ability to change Bypass and Controller assignments per-Snapshot. In fact, they should let us change everything per-Snapshot. So for these pathetic creatures, I've created this Ideascale post:

 

https://line6.ideascale.com/c/idea/1054308

 

On 11/12/2022 at 10:26 PM, HonestOpinion said:

Wacky routing/output switches. I don't do 'em but maybe some do.

 

Again, something like this should come with the acceptance that the user is pushing the unit beyond it's intended design, and should accept a small gap in audio as the preset is being changed. Moreover, TPS removes half the processing power and routing options that would theoretically allow a user to do his wacky changes without necessitating a preset change in the first place.

 

However, I don't see any logical reason why input and output block assignments wouldn't be made available for Footswitch or Snapshot control. So for these pathetic creatures, I've created this Ideascale post:

 

https://line6.ideascale.com/c/idea/1054310

 

On 11/12/2022 at 10:26 PM, HonestOpinion said:

Some players have a go-to lead sound they want on tap at all times. This gives them a way to jump over to it.

This isn't something that couldn't be done with Snapshots. This is the whole point of my argument, that users are programming individual sounds to individual presets, when the unit was designed to allow the user to program multiple sounds to a single preset and use Snapshots to switch between them. And if a user insists on programming "single sound per preset" in defiance of the intended design of the unit, then they're going to have a gap. I play in a 90s rock cover band, we have a setlist of about 50 songs, and what the guitarists that come to see us play tell me at every show is how impressed they are with the fact that I nail every single sound in every single song we play. I use 8 presets for the entire show. You can do anything you want with Snapshots if you embrace the philosophy. That sometimes means that certain chains are repeated in multiple presets, since a preset is a GROUP of sounds, and sometimes a sound has to occur in multiple presets in order for it to be available when and where you need it.

 

On 11/12/2022 at 10:26 PM, HonestOpinion said:

Some players simply have a simple signal chain and losing half their DSP/blocks is no big deal. Switching presets within a song suits their old school sensibilities. Who am I to judge.

Again, this is a little like buying a car with automatic transmission but insisting on switching gears manually because you learned to drive stick. Go ahead, but it's not how the thing was designed to be used. Simple signal chains are perfect for Snapshots. One just has to embrace the philosophy.

 

On 11/12/2022 at 10:26 PM, HonestOpinion said:

It's worth it having the TPS option just to never again have to see anyone post how the Digitech GSP1101 has had gapless preset switching with spillover since the Neolithic era.

That's fair. But again, gapless preset switching shouldn't be the goal. Gapless SOUND switching is the goal, which is more easily achieved with Snapshots.

 

On 11/12/2022 at 10:26 PM, HonestOpinion said:

I just think it is cool the option is there.

Again, the feature is there and people are going to use it. That's fine. My feeling is that the presence of the feature has removed the motivation for some users to learn what Snapshots are all about and how to use them and how they can do so much more with them than TPS.

 

Anyway, I have to add my genius Ideascale posts to the main Ideascale thread XD

[datacommando]

On 11/14/2022 at 3:27 PM, zappazapper said:

If I had a song that required more than 8 Snapshots, after talking myself out of slitting my wrists

This is a thing that has always completely baffled me. My Helix floor can have a maximum of 32 blocks available, and across those blocks can be added 8 Snapshots each capable of modifying 8 things in one simultaneous click. How complex is a song that requires the changing of up to 64 different parameters? Who are these people? What did they do before snapshots? 
 

“Recuerdos de la Alhambra” by Fransico Tárrega, is widely regarded as one of the hardest to play guitar pieces ever written, and yet it can be performed by a single player using a nylon string guitar.
 

Ye gods - I continue to be astonished at how complicated some folks can make using a Helix. It seems to be one of those situations of “give them enough rope,… “.

[zappazapper]

On 11/15/2022 at 6:20 AM, datacommando said:

This is a thing that has always completely baffled me. My Helix floor can have a maximum of 32 blocks available, and across those blocks can be added 8 Snapshots capable of modifying 8 thing in one simultaneous click. How complex is a song that requires the changing of up to 64 different parameters? Who are these people? What did they do before snapshots? 
 

“Recuerdos de la Alhambra” by Fransico Tárrega, is widely regarded as one of the hardest to play guitar pieces ever written, and yet it can be performed by a single player using a nylon string guitar.
 

Ye gods - I continue to be astonished at how complicated some folks can make using a Helix. It seems to be one of those situations of “give them enough rope,… “.

I'd really like to hear this song that maxes out the Snapshots and see a video of the guy tap dancing all over his Helix. Like of course there COULD be a song so complex, but IS there? 

[brue58ski]

On 11/15/2022 at 3:29 AM, zappazapper said:

I'd really like to hear this song that maxes out the Snapshots and see a video of the guy tap dancing all over his Helix. Like of course there COULD be a song so complex, but IS there? 

 

I was thinking it could be for a show or a play.

[zappazapper]

On 11/15/2022 at 2:23 PM, brue58ski said:

I was thinking it could be for a show or a play.

Again, I'd like to see it. I struggled with the concept of Snapshots when I first got my Helix, but slowly started to understand how it works, and now I doubt I'd be able to use a multi-fx that doesn't have a similar feature. I feel like my Snapshot game is as on point (or dare I say, "on fleek") as anybody out there, and I'd like to see a real-world scenario where 8 Snapshots is supposedly not enough, because I feel like there's a good chance that it's a matter of preset design that I could easily solve.

 

Remember, using Snapshots doesn't preclude using Bypass and Controller Assigns as well. Some things don't need Snapshots. I typically assign Snapshots to my Stomp Footswitch Mode board along with Bypass and Controller Assigns, but I do have at least one preset where the Stomp board is all Bypass and Controller Assigns and I have to hit the MODE switch to access the Snapshots board (Global Settings > Preferences > Preset Mode Switches set to 8 Snapshots, Snapshot Mode Switches set to Manual Return). I'd have to check just how many, but I know that that particular preset has way more than 8 "sounds", whether they're called by Snapshots or by Stomp switches with either single or multiple assignments. I will admit that almost none of my presets are designed to be used for one song; they're mostly designed to be used for multiple songs. The preset I'm talking about is my "Nirvana Nevermind" preset and gapless operation is only necessary within singular songs, but because so many of the sounds are shared across the whole album, they're all in the same preset, and if I did have to immediately go from one song off that album to another, the "sound" change would be gapless just by coincidence. 

[HonestOpinion]

On 11/15/2022 at 2:23 PM, brue58ski said:

 

I was thinking it could be for a show or a play.

 

It always struck me as a bit absurd when these requests for additional "pages" of snapshots would pop up on the forum on occasion, but I think this is probably a good guess. Another possibility would be long medleys with quick changes requiring different guitar patches. Uncommon, but I have seen additional snapshots requested.

[DunedinDragon]

It's pretty clear (to me at least) that the architecture used within the Helix for maintaining and processing the signal chain is where this limitation comes into play and Line 6's obsession with limiting latency is the key speed limit for these limitations.  What that means to me is that without an additional processor, there's little likelihood we'll see a viable improvement in the number of active snapshots.

 

None of this affects me since I really don't typically need to make extensive use of snapshots in my presets, but I can see there may be some market opportunities in certain types of usage scenarios such as theater productions where it might be useful.  But I doubt we'll see it with the current hardware.

[brue58ski]

One thing that happens with me, having a Variax, is I can have two paths, one set up for a dirty amp and on for a clean amp with certain effects which doesn't leave me enough room for an acoustic path. Of course I can just start dropping blocks until I have enough DSP but the scenario I have requres certain blocks for each path. What we need is a Helix with more DSP. :D Or better yet, a way to put more DSP in the Helix we have!!! Anyone good at micro soldering? wink wink.

[zappazapper]

On 11/16/2022 at 7:44 AM, brue58ski said:

One thing that happens with me, having a Variax, is I can have two paths, one set up for a dirty amp and on for a clean amp with certain effects which doesn't leave me enough room for an acoustic path.

Is there a reason each amp has to be on its own path? Can't you have all blocks on a single path and use Snapshots to enable any disable the appropriate blocks for the sound you're after? 

[brue58ski]

On 11/16/2022 at 4:48 AM, zappazapper said:

Is there a reason each amp has to be on its own path? Can't you have all blocks on a single path and use Snapshots to enable any disable the appropriate blocks for the sound you're after? 

The answer in my scenario is no. If I want a different amp for each "sound", lets say a Marsahal, a Fender and a Mic preamp (for the acoustic) plus a different flavor of  delay and reverb for each path along with what ever effects (distortion, compressor, chorus, phase, etc.) there is not enough DSP. Again, yes I could drop blocks and play around until I get a compromised sound but my scenario is each path would be I want the FX it has in it. It's just a scenario I've come across. I have no specifics other than I did try and have compromised my "sound" but this scenario is one where the sound is requred and can't be compromised. Again, it's just a scenario describing a possibility that could happen. Not a patch I am currently working on.

[zappazapper]

On 11/16/2022 at 7:59 AM, brue58ski said:

The answer in my scenario is no. If I want a different amp for each "sound", lets say a Marsahal, a Fender and a Mic preamp (for the acoustic) plus a different flavor of  delay and reverb for each path along with what ever effects (distortion, compressor, chorus, phase, etc.) there is not enough DSP. Again, yes I could drop blocks and play around until I get a compromised sound but my scenario is each path would be I want the FX it has in it. It's just a scenario I've come across. I have no specifics other than I did try and have compromised my "sound" but this scenario is one where the sound is requred and can't be compromised. Again, it's just a scenario describing a possibility that could happen. Not a patch I am currently working on.

OK so this is a scenario where TPS is the solution because 1/2 the processing is enough for each "sound", but full processing power isn't enough for all three sounds?

[brue58ski]

On 11/16/2022 at 6:12 AM, zappazapper said:

OK so this is a scenario where TPS is the solution because 1/2 the processing is enough for each "sound", but full processing power isn't enough for all three sounds?

 

It's just a possible scenario that I've come across. Not a problem to solve. But yes, for the paths that I wanted and the blocks I wanted to use and finding no other way around it...yes not enough DSP. When I took away blocks, I lost what I wanted to hear. I'm not sure how to be more clear....so I won't try.

[WhitzEnd00]

I do this regularly.  Sometimes bypassing the amp block and turning on another, or using another amp on a stereo path and panning between them at the split block.  The only limitation is your imagination

[weesch]

Hi

Line 6 plugins  had a very good quality ! the best for me !

and i use amp farm 2 rtas with protools hd coupled with an other asio software "mutool".

what i see is that when i use line 6 rtas alone with protools i have latency.

but if i record line 6 rtas in another software like mutools i have no more latency.

so that's why i suggest everyone to use line 6 plugins with an HOST software like vst host

https://www.hermannseib.com/english/vsthost.htm

and record line 6 plugin audio in another asio software like mutools/cubase/samplitude.

if you use multiple asio driver in your computer no problems you can use asiolinkpro ... to plug line 6 asio out to your asio in seqeuncer like cubase /samplitude ....

https://give.academy/downloads/2018/03/03/ODeusASIOLinkPro/

here a demo of a song made with line 6 ampfarm 2 rtas on bass guitar with guitar rig preset on voice and xln addictive drum

all plugin are made with protools and all record ( audio and midi )are made with cubase .

call me for advise for your system configuration because using multiple audio hardware and asio driver in one or two computer is the key to avoid latency !

best regards

weesch

 

MaXtor project.pdf