WickedFinger

At some point we are going to have to leave the 1950s technology behind. Soon and even now there will not be enough good wood for guitars. You have to change the way you think about traditional gear when you start programming stuff on the Helix, the usual rules and procedures can be and should be, bent in the virtual world of the Helix. There are no real speaker or pedal gear impedance and order issues. It is a slow progression to ween yourself off what you have always used and done, and indeed for some, rather impossible. They get in their heads "no modeling technology can ever sound and feel like an amp" and even when they try it they will not be able to accept it. Personally no one loved the sound of tube amps more than me, it took a long time to realize technology could and must move us forward or we are just walking around with a backpack personal phone w a 20ft whip antenna, "because they sounded better". I feel the Helix is not a unit for those who cannot create their own presets and have to copy everything or god forbid be stuck with factory examples. The real magic of this unit is what you can do to create ideas and experiments that would otherwise be impossible. It takes time to learn and some headphone retreating which may take away your practice and normal playing time but in a while you'll have some the best sounding stuff you ever played through and it will inspire you to be better and improve. Sure you can short cut and buy some of the better genius programmer presets but I cannot presume they meant for no one to tweak these to their own rig and response feel. Great for getting ideas and understanding how things work but the real magic is getting in there and creating your own personal stuff. Also quite satisfying that you did it and it is custom designed for you. No one can expect to replace and redo their entire rig and spectrum of tones in a short time, it takes some work and time to get what you need but I will wager if you do the time and learn, what you will end up with will sound better than you ever imagined, with near zero maintenance and failure issues.

I would love to know what if any is the curve slope. I do not really cut my highs apart from ultra high end which just adds hiss and noise outside the guitar range. As I am not recording tracks these days so really trimmed EQ cuts are not something I need or relish. The behavior of normal speakers is key to me in accurate modeling. Since we are not producing signal or frequencies really outside the range of what the guitar can do sans +/- octave effects, one wonders why hi cuts are needed in the first place. I always cut the ultra low end as that just robs wattage and anything below the lowest notes I am producing are just sub sonics as far as I am concerned. Wondering does the Helix have a built in sub sonic filter?? IRs are some what a mystery to me at times as to the why and premise. I mean do I really want to have the sound of some cheese speaker with terrible rolloff, bad efficiency and really notable coloring, not me. Seems counter-intuitive to use a highly technical advanced modeling technology to mimic and copy something rather outdated and inferior like for example the Whammy or an older octave pedal, why would you want to match something that did not track for crap because it is a monophonic tracking technology pedal? Then lollipop the Whammy in the Helix does not track right on Eb??? If you were going to model something then why not the newer Whammy V with its detune circuit that is polyphonic and no more bad tone buffer? How about the newer octave pedals that are also poly tracking? Why this constant reach back into time for pedals and effects that quite frankly sucked and were used really because it is all there was as an option? And why can one not move the "mic" across the speaker as I have seen on 3rd part IRs and other modeler units? Where is the Helix "mic" IR virtually positioned? Personally I would prefer an optimized highly tweakable amp with a range of tube sounding gains over the copy mimic of an old amp. I get the nostalgia and the inability to move on but using such advanced modeling technology to capture and reproduce something a half century or more in lower technology seems somehow to be trying very hard not to progress to the future. My fav models in my GSP1101 unit were the Digitech optimized clean tube models, they were really glass sounding so much better than the copy of Fender's and what not. But I know this largely falls on deaf ears as we must continue to produce technology for the masses which have no idea of what it is. Ooooooo, it sounds just like the 1950s....or a crap pedal I hated when it was new.

Don't forget the guitar has tone caps which have that tone or less high end and warm low end BB uses no gain dist, maybe why he prefers the solid state for no clipping.Being a Les Paul user myself my guitars do not have those tone caps in the jazzier model guitars. Like to have that in my bridge position. BB's tone is really not complex, very simple really. But you cannot have the wrong gear and get it. As far as models in the Helix go with the Roland 120 not sure what else is in there that might be close as well. Food for thought though now I have to work on some more Jazz tone presets, BYW that is one major cool custom box!

There are also Global settings for signal level which may play a part. You can use send/return separately and different ones or just use the combination loop send/return in mono or stereo configs. I would be surprised if the unit was not working right. I am sure L6 would effect repairs asap if this is so,

use what you like is the rule The Helix is way beyond any sort of couple hundred dollar multi unit, period. I it is not POD, else I would not have one. There is a reason why the flagship multi units run around $500 and the Helix is $1500, you get what you pay for despite what one does or does not hear which is a whole other issue. I tried a $600 Atomic Amp before the Helix, it went back. My GSP1101 modeler preamp had some really great amp models and effects in it and I love that unit but even at $800 and the clean tube models it has which are amazing the Helix, beat its a s s with a big hammer. So moral of this story is use what you like, use what works for you, Settle for whatever you will and love the sound of whatever you hear. The Helix flag continues to fly on my house.

I am not that up on the midi stuff as I just have never used it. Not using the Helix primarily for amp and cab models is really limiting its intended forte. A couple misnomers are that you need to use just preamps when running into a power amp, tubes or otherwise, you do not. The amp model imparts a fullness and depth to the tone much more than just the preamp model. I am not sure of most others out there but I run a multi rig set up using stereo FRFR speakers and I have stereo wired 4x12 using high end guitar speakers. I use different power amps but no tubes. And I use the full amp and cab IRs for my rig as the sound is just amazing. What you are doing is basically using your amps as a power amp so you are really already there. One does not really run a full preamp into a preamp so if you are doing that with the preamp models it is not going to really do well. Having used many amps using the effect loop return to bypass the amps preamp section on various rigs I have used including a guitar synth rig, eventually the resistors on the loop will blow, all of mine did in time. Better to have a dedicated power amp but we have to use what we have at hand many times so we make the best of it. Using a compact power amp with matched wattage to your speakers works the best and despite the notion we have to get tubes in there somehow. L6 Engineering will tell you you will get better results not using a tube power amp as the tubes have already been modeled and you do not need additional clipping and gain response from them. It tends to be too much of a good thing. (I do recommend using FRFR speakers or high end guitar speakers.) Anyway, just FYI. You can create in the Helix a dual amp patch with an array of effects you are switch auto by snap shot one button, one button preset change or basic on and off effects via their switches and assigns. You can make one switch do multiple things and assign more sophisticate controllers to do many complex things which are a little over my head right now from the aspect I just have not gotten in there to learn or use them for my rig. The charm of the Helix is its ability potential and future potential that others just do not have. It's a big step changing from amps but it can be done and using the Helix makes for one super fast rig set up and worry over gear. Like most I was obsessed with my tube amps and so on, after I wanted to finally get away from the buying of tubes that were often bad in a supposed matched set and/or tested binned and the resulting maintenance and bias adjustments of tube amps. Modeling can work and does sound amazing if you have the talent for tweaking and developing intelligent presets. I had owned several modelers before the Helix and they just did not push me over to being able to leave my tube amp arsenal. When I first ran through the Helix and my initial tests for what I want a modeler to do, feel and respond to pedals. This is the deal, did not need to go Fractal or Kemper this one has it. And I say that as a POD hater you could not give me one, been there done that. The Helix has the capability to do what you want and I suspect in several different means. I am not up on some of your needs but I do know from what I program I could use controllers, presets and snapshots to get it all. The effects in the Helix are only a few being of the new HX component modeling technique many are carry overs from the POD and M L6 stock and they have promised to upgrade in time. So the effects are not vastly superior to other units or even higher end pedals for that matter. So can it do what you have in mind, I am certain it can. It would be hard for someone to detail exact walk through of what and how to do it without having your rig to analyze and figure out the best methodology.

I sort of look at it differently, just put a simple EQ, flat EQ and just use the gain level, first up to drop the input sensitivity when needed, then off when you do not want it. Messing with the pickup levels drastically effects the gains structure on the amp. I use Les Paul's and just keep my vols rolled back some on cleans and roll up on high gains. I agree with calibrating to the loudest strum that well be used and then deal with the lower volumes. I do not like the idea of PADing dowh the guitar pickups and one of mine has 66/57 EMGs, essential to keep the impedance on auto I think. Several of my pickups are just too loud signal all the way up on anything clean amp they will digitally clip, terrible sound to be sure and I think that is really a normal thing. When I played Strat's for ages I always had them full up, only when I git into Les Paul's did I learn to use those volume and tone controls and the myriad of tones they can produce.

Have to try that one. I never can get a rotating speaker I like or can use. I had one of the dual MXR it's alright but that thing changes the tone out of its output when off, suppose its a buffer thing but changed my signal quality when it was not on. Two phasers was novel and you could do some cool things did more of a cooler vibe thing for me but I never was into really fast phasers. Did sound pretty wicked in stereo. I want that Leslie sound Pagey used to get on recordings, musically amazing. Never had much luck with Rotary effect thing. Have heard Jeff Beck a really great Leslie with that RotoSim. Maybe the newer Leslie effect pedals might be a good add on for the loop.

One serious note on something I wish the Helix had is a slope curve rolloff instead of hard hi and low cuts, While I get recording mavens like to position a tone right in a defined slot. Real speakers do not cut off frequencies and all this low and hi cut stuff honestly bugs the crap out of me then they feel they have to use FRFR speakers on a shaved frequency response. How about a cut or a slope IR option guys??? And working on the Reverbs HX would be cool even a better HX delay, just one each would be cool, and highly tweakable. Wondering if they can incorporate the newer polyphonic tracking that Digitech and EGX use, even TC has it now, who needs these copies of old cheese pedals that were monophonic glitch outs anyway? Personally I could care less bout the penchant need to copy and mimic the lore of old, create something masterfully great sounding and tweakable and who cares if it a copy mimic of some crap fest old tech. HX baby. Bring it.

Guys the Helix is not polyphonic tracking so the ability to get chords coming through must have been a bit of luck to begin with. Be nice if L6 could figure out if they can incorporate polyphonic tracking like in various Digitech and EHX units. The new Whammy V +detune has it all over the "Whammy" in the Helix. But I did not buy the Helix for effects, I hoped it had reasonable delay and reverb, anything else would be a bonus. Really simple matter to farm out to a better tracking pedal. If they can upgrade it fine but I am in the wagon for the amp models. I never expect any multi unit to really sound better or as good as pedals. I bloody hate the whole M16 / POD effect thing and really would not use one if it was free. Bugs me they copied some of the POD effect stuff but they claim to be trying to upgrade them. I look forward to them updating the Helix but as long as the amp models do the deal I am OK with farming out to pedals if needed.

I like my Helix but we are supposed to like what we have. As far as "better", I have never been much of a fan of "shootouts" as so much variant cannot be all taken into account and IRs are another infinite variable. Seems more an EQ thing to me between the two, there is so much than can be adjusted and tweaked. Helix is a hell of a unit in my universe, I do not regret getting it one little bit. If I had an AX8 I am sure that would be sounding great as well. There is no "better" here. And as usual I find A/B shootouts rather meaningless. I've heard others side by side and a Kemper and if you tell the difference when they are tweaked to be matched your ears must be better than mine. I am happy with the Helix and while I used to dream of being able to afford a Fractal or a Kemper I do not so much care anymore,

I build my own slant boards and just did not like the feel of the Helix on the board. I just have mine next to it. If I had to mount it probably flat. I gave up buying pedal boards a couple years back, easier to make them and any size or levels I want. Buying them is always a size problem and the cost gets way up there. I suppose to be totally pro looking it might be worth the bucks but not on my budget. I love those ones that light up and whatnot but man they cost. Being able to close it up in a shipping lid is pretty cool and I guess if you are major touring you really do need protection and firm attachments. (...that's what she said...)

Despite in the virtual world of the Helix god, you can do things verboten in the real world like dist pedal after an amp, but even in the Helix I just would never try to run an amp model or even a preamp into a pedal just seems like a clipping nightmare and not in a good way. I work all my presets for hours making sure I have no unwanted digital clipping on levels and make sure everything is good musical sounding gain structure. I get really good results on many cabs getting more good low end and less brittle high end by using one of my fav mics the 4038 Coles Ribbon, marvelous thing really, Varying the spacing and early reflections and it really add a more fuller sound to many amps especially cleaner ones. Since I do not use a lot of hi cuts this gives me a warmer low end focused tone you can really feel those low notes without mud. I cut ultra lows below what I produce about 50hz but hardly anything on hi cuts. Depends on every preset construction of course. But a real amp does not hard lo or hi cut, guitar speakers do not cut but slopes roll off. this is something that bugs me about the whole IR thing. You go to great lengths to model a cab and speakers but then lo and hi cut when speakers do not do that. I do not know much about the mystical magical world of creating IRs but ti seems creating some sort of slopping curve would be more realistic than hard cuts. Also the use of the Mic preamp model Studio Tube Preamp with the impedance on line 10.0 and gain at 4.0 which is clean but imparts a subtle "tubeishness" to the sound in front of about any amp. Overdrive is a tricky beast I try not to get too much gain from a pedal and more interaction to the amp model gain. As far as the full on distortions on the Helix I do not really use them. I loop out to my fav drives and a high gain (Mesa Tone Burst, Mesa Flux Drive and Palladium Gainstage for cleaner amps). I find the on board fuzz and what not pretty brutal, got some good tones out of the Rat model but have not spent the time to really EQ and work on them. Probably need something after them to harsh it down a little.

Must be some black magic technology in a $140 pedal, or.......does anyone know what the circuit is actually doing so that we can reverse engineer the effect? Does not seem to have any sense of latency on the doubling. I have an idea what it might be doing but the Helix is not polyphonic tracking. Best bet at this point is a dual amp thing.

I do not understand what the deal is with the SP1-L6H only for rack, or what the difference is suppose to be, L6 says the units are the same. Might drop them a support ticket and ask what the deal is. You can read on many SP1-L6H sale sites and they say it works on the floor or rack unit, others like Sweetwater say the rack unit. I wish whoever is wrong would get their "shift" together! L6 has told me the Helix is designed to work with either a TRS or TS wired expression pedal. But they negated to say if you have a TRS pedal should you use a TRS cable into the Helix or a TS. I really have not needed to rig mine up yet as the dual capability in the Helix of EXP1 and EXP2 is enough for my uses. But seriously the confusion on all of it hurts my brain, or is it brian.

Yes, it depends on the model and tweaking. More high end harmonizer units can handle processing dirt signals. Most units need to be cleaner signal for proper tracking and signal division. New units these days are polyphonic tracking, the Helix is not. I have gotten good results using the Dual Pitch further down the chain but I do not tend to like Harmonizers which require set keys and scales. They are also profoundly not polyphonic in the Helix. The Helix is always one of try and see, create the model and just move to see how it sounds. The virtual world of the Helix is not like the reality of real effects, amps, and impedance matching issues. You can do the most unorthodox things and it will sound great. Which is one of the many things I love about this machine.

Well, I hate to say this but this does not sound all that great to me to be "fretting" over trying to match it. I personally get much better tones than this example on my Helix. This is not even a tone that would give me pause to accept it and tweak on it. If this is the flagship of the Fractal I will stick with the Helix. While I like the high gain of the 2204mod there are so any others that sound so good to me they make me want to play. Like my Shiva mods, Mesa Cleans, Plexi cleans, and HIwatt cleans. The Engl high gain is amazing. Not to be a turd in the punch bowl but so many user presets do not even get close to great tone for me. If you have to farm out to 3rd party IRs all the time maybe you're not that great at tweaking. Other than not being able to move the mic across the plane of the speaker by switching mics, distance and reflection I can get some really great tones. But: As I tried to discuss in other threads, real guitar speakers do not stop reproducing a frequency like IR hi and low cuts, they slope. Amp presence controls are often set around 9K, the high end tweak in my Palladium Gainstage is 8K, and despite the Eminence I use on one of my cabs start to roll off at 5.5K you can clearly hear the high end sparkle of those controls. The low end EQ of many gain pedals is at 80hz. So ponder what happens when you low and high cut an IR narrowing these ranges. Does anyone really think a real guitar amp drastically cuts high and lows and yet we model all the time as if they do. You are basically narrowing the EQ spectrum to a tight mid range which might be effective and workable for some things but there is more to tone than reduced EQ ranges. As I mentioned in my "Helix Tips" thread you can use the Mic Tube Preamp model set to line impedance and gain at 4.0 which is clean in front of any amp model and often after them and it really helps the tone and illusion of real tubes. Adding reg preamp models just does not sound as good as that Mic Tube Preamp model. It is a subtle enhancement but enhancement none this less, everyone I know that has tried it, likes it. Anyway. Tone is what you like, and everyone hears differently, which is glaringly apparent to me on a daily basis.

Something about high cuts and speaker range rolloff: On most std guitar amps the presence control is often based at 9K while most guitar speakers begin to roll off around 5K this does not mean you cannot generate high end above that. A high cut kills anything above the setting while a guitar speaker slopes off response. Am I right in understanding an IR cuts at settings or does it "roll off" like a speaker. I think it cuts and and Helix as well. My Eminence speakers start roll off at 5.5K but you could always clearly hear my amps presence control at 9K adding more high end. I have pedals where the high presence is 8K so there might be some terse issues of killing frequencies instead of a slope in response. Food for thought.

So you use a TS cable on the TRS pedal??? L6 just said it would work they were not clear on problems or what cable to use.

You can program the wah to turn via a stomp switch and assign whichever EXP you want for it while maintaining the other EXP on volume or whatever. When I first got the unit I did not know there was a switch via pressing the pedal hard.

Truthfully I never spent much time going through them or any of the user custom tone ones as most were dreadful for me and I would just as soon create my own. I do use a Template now and then but really have my own I use. I never had a multi unit even my guitar synth that had any factory stuff I liked. I suppose they have some decent samples in there but it is so easy to create one that is specific to your rig as you are going to have to tweak on them anyway. Only the templates have been useful for me in creating more complex split paths before I understood how to do it. That is why I am leery of buying user made presets as I am afraid if they are anything like the custom tone stuff they are not going to work for me. A couple of these guys are genius programmers, I do not know why L6 doesn't use their stuff for a factory package. As for the opinion of the stock cab IR stuff I think its just fine and I like being able to change mics and params easy.

If you are just using it to get some tubeish quality on your tone, I'd say up front or you can put it in a loop block and place it anywhere in the chain that sounds the best. Since you do not need it for sending a signal with the Helix. I turned many on to a little trick of using the MIC Tube Preamp model set for line and low gain to add a little tube like quality to the amp models. It does well up front or after the amp model, depends on the overall tone, sometimes I use both. Just put it in a loop block and move it around till you get the desired tube enhancement. That's alI can offer on it, maybe others have ideas.

Passing this on I mentioned in another thread: The Helix is designed to use either a TRS or a TS wired Expression Pedal according to L6.

Just to update on the issue of confusing expression pedals. My white EP-1 is a TRS config and I spoke to technical support at Line6 they said the Helix is wired to accept either a TR or a TRS wired expression pedal so they said it should work. Very cool indeed. Mission makes a new designed expression pedal for the Helix that has a toe switch which adds to the features of the Helix assign ability. ON the dumb side of the tracks would you believe I had the Helix for a couple weeks before I even realized it had a hidden toe switch on the expression pedal and you do not have to turn the wah on via a scribble toe switch and can keep a volume pedal as well using EXP1 and EXP2. Felt like a complete nit. Just goes to show you the Helix is a special unit, best thing for guitar ever. I am a manual reader but just missed that whole issue, I guess because I had been without a wah and using an expression pedal for ages. I would like to know what are some of the user's more fav wah models? I seem to go with the weeper a lot but seems any have their uses with different amp models and stuff. God what a cool guitar device!

I dig the BBE units I seriously would not be without one and I have several for different feeds and impedance. Gotten into a few arguments with some on the net about what it does and how they were trying to say you could do it with just an para EQ. The phase reverse correction is the ball game. Makes live sound sound so much better. I used to use them on my stereo music CD playback system and never really thought about the guitar use, I heard Dave Mustaine had used them on his guitar rigs and I tried it and never looked back, Marvelous sonic improvement makes a great tone just a little bit better. I always tell users not to use it as if it were an :effect" when you have it positioned and set right you should not notice it is on but when not there it is indeed like having a blanket over your speakers. Going to try rigging up my GSP 1101 unit to the Helix loop if I can get the levels right and see if I can't being in just the Clean Tube models I loved so much in place of using the Helix Mic Tube Preamp for that cool enhancement it can add to the tone before and after various amp models. I have it and it is brand new so I thought before I have to sell it off why not see if I can bring in that cool clean tube model sound it has. Not sure what they did but it is much better than the clean Fender models on either unit. Anyway, I am sure hardly anyone has one but will be an interesting experiment.