WickedFinger

One serious note on something I wish the Helix had is a slope curve rolloff instead of hard hi and low cuts, While I get recording mavens like to position a tone right in a defined slot. Real speakers do not cut off frequencies and all this low and hi cut stuff honestly bugs the crap out of me then they feel they have to use FRFR speakers on a shaved frequency response. How about a cut or a slope IR option guys??? And working on the Reverbs HX would be cool even a better HX delay, just one each would be cool, and highly tweakable. Wondering if they can incorporate the newer polyphonic tracking that Digitech and EGX use, even TC has it now, who needs these copies of old cheese pedals that were monophonic glitch outs anyway? Personally I could care less bout the penchant need to copy and mimic the lore of old, create something masterfully great sounding and tweakable and who cares if it a copy mimic of some crap fest old tech. HX baby. Bring it.

Guys the Helix is not polyphonic tracking so the ability to get chords coming through must have been a bit of luck to begin with. Be nice if L6 could figure out if they can incorporate polyphonic tracking like in various Digitech and EHX units. The new Whammy V +detune has it all over the "Whammy" in the Helix. But I did not buy the Helix for effects, I hoped it had reasonable delay and reverb, anything else would be a bonus. Really simple matter to farm out to a better tracking pedal. If they can upgrade it fine but I am in the wagon for the amp models. I never expect any multi unit to really sound better or as good as pedals. I bloody hate the whole M16 / POD effect thing and really would not use one if it was free. Bugs me they copied some of the POD effect stuff but they claim to be trying to upgrade them. I look forward to them updating the Helix but as long as the amp models do the deal I am OK with farming out to pedals if needed.

I like my Helix but we are supposed to like what we have. As far as "better", I have never been much of a fan of "shootouts" as so much variant cannot be all taken into account and IRs are another infinite variable. Seems more an EQ thing to me between the two, there is so much than can be adjusted and tweaked. Helix is a hell of a unit in my universe, I do not regret getting it one little bit. If I had an AX8 I am sure that would be sounding great as well. There is no "better" here. And as usual I find A/B shootouts rather meaningless. I've heard others side by side and a Kemper and if you tell the difference when they are tweaked to be matched your ears must be better than mine. I am happy with the Helix and while I used to dream of being able to afford a Fractal or a Kemper I do not so much care anymore,

I build my own slant boards and just did not like the feel of the Helix on the board. I just have mine next to it. If I had to mount it probably flat. I gave up buying pedal boards a couple years back, easier to make them and any size or levels I want. Buying them is always a size problem and the cost gets way up there. I suppose to be totally pro looking it might be worth the bucks but not on my budget. I love those ones that light up and whatnot but man they cost. Being able to close it up in a shipping lid is pretty cool and I guess if you are major touring you really do need protection and firm attachments. (...that's what she said...)

Despite in the virtual world of the Helix god, you can do things verboten in the real world like dist pedal after an amp, but even in the Helix I just would never try to run an amp model or even a preamp into a pedal just seems like a clipping nightmare and not in a good way. I work all my presets for hours making sure I have no unwanted digital clipping on levels and make sure everything is good musical sounding gain structure. I get really good results on many cabs getting more good low end and less brittle high end by using one of my fav mics the 4038 Coles Ribbon, marvelous thing really, Varying the spacing and early reflections and it really add a more fuller sound to many amps especially cleaner ones. Since I do not use a lot of hi cuts this gives me a warmer low end focused tone you can really feel those low notes without mud. I cut ultra lows below what I produce about 50hz but hardly anything on hi cuts. Depends on every preset construction of course. But a real amp does not hard lo or hi cut, guitar speakers do not cut but slopes roll off. this is something that bugs me about the whole IR thing. You go to great lengths to model a cab and speakers but then lo and hi cut when speakers do not do that. I do not know much about the mystical magical world of creating IRs but ti seems creating some sort of slopping curve would be more realistic than hard cuts. Also the use of the Mic preamp model Studio Tube Preamp with the impedance on line 10.0 and gain at 4.0 which is clean but imparts a subtle "tubeishness" to the sound in front of about any amp. Overdrive is a tricky beast I try not to get too much gain from a pedal and more interaction to the amp model gain. As far as the full on distortions on the Helix I do not really use them. I loop out to my fav drives and a high gain (Mesa Tone Burst, Mesa Flux Drive and Palladium Gainstage for cleaner amps). I find the on board fuzz and what not pretty brutal, got some good tones out of the Rat model but have not spent the time to really EQ and work on them. Probably need something after them to harsh it down a little.

Must be some black magic technology in a $140 pedal, or.......does anyone know what the circuit is actually doing so that we can reverse engineer the effect? Does not seem to have any sense of latency on the doubling. I have an idea what it might be doing but the Helix is not polyphonic tracking. Best bet at this point is a dual amp thing.

I do not understand what the deal is with the SP1-L6H only for rack, or what the difference is suppose to be, L6 says the units are the same. Might drop them a support ticket and ask what the deal is. You can read on many SP1-L6H sale sites and they say it works on the floor or rack unit, others like Sweetwater say the rack unit. I wish whoever is wrong would get their "shift" together! L6 has told me the Helix is designed to work with either a TRS or TS wired expression pedal. But they negated to say if you have a TRS pedal should you use a TRS cable into the Helix or a TS. I really have not needed to rig mine up yet as the dual capability in the Helix of EXP1 and EXP2 is enough for my uses. But seriously the confusion on all of it hurts my brain, or is it brian.

Yes, it depends on the model and tweaking. More high end harmonizer units can handle processing dirt signals. Most units need to be cleaner signal for proper tracking and signal division. New units these days are polyphonic tracking, the Helix is not. I have gotten good results using the Dual Pitch further down the chain but I do not tend to like Harmonizers which require set keys and scales. They are also profoundly not polyphonic in the Helix. The Helix is always one of try and see, create the model and just move to see how it sounds. The virtual world of the Helix is not like the reality of real effects, amps, and impedance matching issues. You can do the most unorthodox things and it will sound great. Which is one of the many things I love about this machine.

Well, I hate to say this but this does not sound all that great to me to be "fretting" over trying to match it. I personally get much better tones than this example on my Helix. This is not even a tone that would give me pause to accept it and tweak on it. If this is the flagship of the Fractal I will stick with the Helix. While I like the high gain of the 2204mod there are so any others that sound so good to me they make me want to play. Like my Shiva mods, Mesa Cleans, Plexi cleans, and HIwatt cleans. The Engl high gain is amazing. Not to be a turd in the punch bowl but so many user presets do not even get close to great tone for me. If you have to farm out to 3rd party IRs all the time maybe you're not that great at tweaking. Other than not being able to move the mic across the plane of the speaker by switching mics, distance and reflection I can get some really great tones. But: As I tried to discuss in other threads, real guitar speakers do not stop reproducing a frequency like IR hi and low cuts, they slope. Amp presence controls are often set around 9K, the high end tweak in my Palladium Gainstage is 8K, and despite the Eminence I use on one of my cabs start to roll off at 5.5K you can clearly hear the high end sparkle of those controls. The low end EQ of many gain pedals is at 80hz. So ponder what happens when you low and high cut an IR narrowing these ranges. Does anyone really think a real guitar amp drastically cuts high and lows and yet we model all the time as if they do. You are basically narrowing the EQ spectrum to a tight mid range which might be effective and workable for some things but there is more to tone than reduced EQ ranges. As I mentioned in my "Helix Tips" thread you can use the Mic Tube Preamp model set to line impedance and gain at 4.0 which is clean in front of any amp model and often after them and it really helps the tone and illusion of real tubes. Adding reg preamp models just does not sound as good as that Mic Tube Preamp model. It is a subtle enhancement but enhancement none this less, everyone I know that has tried it, likes it. Anyway. Tone is what you like, and everyone hears differently, which is glaringly apparent to me on a daily basis.

Something about high cuts and speaker range rolloff: On most std guitar amps the presence control is often based at 9K while most guitar speakers begin to roll off around 5K this does not mean you cannot generate high end above that. A high cut kills anything above the setting while a guitar speaker slopes off response. Am I right in understanding an IR cuts at settings or does it "roll off" like a speaker. I think it cuts and and Helix as well. My Eminence speakers start roll off at 5.5K but you could always clearly hear my amps presence control at 9K adding more high end. I have pedals where the high presence is 8K so there might be some terse issues of killing frequencies instead of a slope in response. Food for thought.

So you use a TS cable on the TRS pedal??? L6 just said it would work they were not clear on problems or what cable to use.

You can program the wah to turn via a stomp switch and assign whichever EXP you want for it while maintaining the other EXP on volume or whatever. When I first got the unit I did not know there was a switch via pressing the pedal hard.

Truthfully I never spent much time going through them or any of the user custom tone ones as most were dreadful for me and I would just as soon create my own. I do use a Template now and then but really have my own I use. I never had a multi unit even my guitar synth that had any factory stuff I liked. I suppose they have some decent samples in there but it is so easy to create one that is specific to your rig as you are going to have to tweak on them anyway. Only the templates have been useful for me in creating more complex split paths before I understood how to do it. That is why I am leery of buying user made presets as I am afraid if they are anything like the custom tone stuff they are not going to work for me. A couple of these guys are genius programmers, I do not know why L6 doesn't use their stuff for a factory package. As for the opinion of the stock cab IR stuff I think its just fine and I like being able to change mics and params easy.

If you are just using it to get some tubeish quality on your tone, I'd say up front or you can put it in a loop block and place it anywhere in the chain that sounds the best. Since you do not need it for sending a signal with the Helix. I turned many on to a little trick of using the MIC Tube Preamp model set for line and low gain to add a little tube like quality to the amp models. It does well up front or after the amp model, depends on the overall tone, sometimes I use both. Just put it in a loop block and move it around till you get the desired tube enhancement. That's alI can offer on it, maybe others have ideas.

Passing this on I mentioned in another thread: The Helix is designed to use either a TRS or a TS wired Expression Pedal according to L6.

Just to update on the issue of confusing expression pedals. My white EP-1 is a TRS config and I spoke to technical support at Line6 they said the Helix is wired to accept either a TR or a TRS wired expression pedal so they said it should work. Very cool indeed. Mission makes a new designed expression pedal for the Helix that has a toe switch which adds to the features of the Helix assign ability. ON the dumb side of the tracks would you believe I had the Helix for a couple weeks before I even realized it had a hidden toe switch on the expression pedal and you do not have to turn the wah on via a scribble toe switch and can keep a volume pedal as well using EXP1 and EXP2. Felt like a complete nit. Just goes to show you the Helix is a special unit, best thing for guitar ever. I am a manual reader but just missed that whole issue, I guess because I had been without a wah and using an expression pedal for ages. I would like to know what are some of the user's more fav wah models? I seem to go with the weeper a lot but seems any have their uses with different amp models and stuff. God what a cool guitar device!

I dig the BBE units I seriously would not be without one and I have several for different feeds and impedance. Gotten into a few arguments with some on the net about what it does and how they were trying to say you could do it with just an para EQ. The phase reverse correction is the ball game. Makes live sound sound so much better. I used to use them on my stereo music CD playback system and never really thought about the guitar use, I heard Dave Mustaine had used them on his guitar rigs and I tried it and never looked back, Marvelous sonic improvement makes a great tone just a little bit better. I always tell users not to use it as if it were an :effect" when you have it positioned and set right you should not notice it is on but when not there it is indeed like having a blanket over your speakers. Going to try rigging up my GSP 1101 unit to the Helix loop if I can get the levels right and see if I can't being in just the Clean Tube models I loved so much in place of using the Helix Mic Tube Preamp for that cool enhancement it can add to the tone before and after various amp models. I have it and it is brand new so I thought before I have to sell it off why not see if I can bring in that cool clean tube model sound it has. Not sure what they did but it is much better than the clean Fender models on either unit. Anyway, I am sure hardly anyone has one but will be an interesting experiment.

Interesting stuff. I guess I never noticed it because the whammy in the Helix is not to my liking, sounding certainly like an older model Whammy but nothing close to the newest V model version. God I miss that pedal, seriously might have to get another one. I hate the glitch burble of bad tracking on such units and octave pedals. Everything new is polyphonic tracking, I am wondering if they can go that far on the Helix without sucking up too much DSP. Anyway, easy thing to loop out to other pedals which is what I like about the Helix and unlike the POD thing it actually works well. I get what you are saying about the phase thing. I think it was that guy "meambobbo" on the POD HD who wrote an advanced guide how that unit would alter the tone just by dropping in blocks of like the EQ without using them must have been a phase thing. I wonder if my using a BBE unit may correct that. I also have in my overstock gear a new GSP1101 and I am pondering using a couple of the amazing clean tube preamps it has to sort of do my Mic Tube Preamp trick but have the full capability of the GSP creating it. Wondering if that would really bring a real tube like enhancement as those couple models in that unit were the deal for me before I got the Helix. Wondering how i can rig it up. I was thinking a send out to the 1101, grab the clean tube model, out the main and back to the Helix on a return and place it before the Helix amp model for starters anyway. Opens up a whole mess of new config ideas in my brain. I was going to try and sell the GSP 1101 as I had just paid my final payment when I decided to grab a Helix on a great payment deal. If I sell it I lose bucks on a brand new unit but if I can access those clean tube models I love it might be an expensive add on but I have it so what the hey? Any config ideas you guys have?

Sorry, I thought you were talking about tracking issues and where to place them. I am not sure I understand the phase thing.

I Know that Mission makes an EP-1 L6 pedal and new model they just came out with that has a toe switch just for the Helix. I have a white Chris Brodrick EP-1 and I am confused if I can use it on the Helix. I asked Line 6 and they said it was compatible but as I understand the EP-1 is a TRS wired pedal and the Helix is a TS, does anyone know it will just compensate and use the TS points or it just does not work????

From what I have seen on most octave and harmonizer effects, Guitar pedal type octave stuff seems to track better up front, while more rack mount type harmonizers can be placed after the amp gain stage. You sort of have to try and see but guitar pedal types have always glitched and burbled like crazy unless they have a clean signal to process. The traditional Whammy (V) i is now polyphonic unlike the prior versions and it can actually work pretty well front or further back but when I used to use the harmonizer modes on it I put it up front which is Digitech recommended to me as well. I find the simple pitch and dual pitch to do pretty well in the Helix but in front of the amp models, you can run some OD or dirt into them but they do not sound good for me after the amp. I really never liked harmonizers and pitch shifters which required a key and scale maintain, One of the things I loved about the Whammy V was that you had the freedom to play anything and it would simply harmonize and interval to whatever note you played. The 5th +/- and 8va's on the Whammy V track amazing. I miss that pedal, might have to get another one and loop it in. The rack type higher end harmonizers can track distorted signals pretty good but all such unit blocks in the Helix are not polyphonic so any attempt at chords will glitch out, exceptions are the Whammy set a half step for like Eb it seems to do pretty well tracking chords, but it is not a polyphonic pedal in the Helix.

I offer another tip I use which I just love and have been using them for ages through various version and upgrades. BBE Sonic Maximizer, now before someone poo poos on this and claims they can do the same with a para EQ or whatnot, no you can't. This puppy has been extensively analyzed and it does what BBE says it does. The issue of correcting the phase on the outputs makes all the difference and although with the process enhancement of the BBE circuit there is a slight bump at 50HZ and 5KHz but the secret of using these is thus: 1.) Do run this as it were an "effect" pedal it is a phase correcting device and the levels should never really be more that 12:00. The phase correction takes place at any level so that benefit is always there. So the relative level of how much process you like is up to you. 2.) You have to get the unit as close to the final power amplification stage as possible. Nothing after it is the key. 3.) This is more of live sound enhancement device and does not work on record playback. You may get some sparkle and presence and some low end punch on recordings but the phase time lag correction thing only takes place using the unit on live sound. I use these units extensively and if they are not on or out of chain the difference is steadfast not as good. There has never been a A/B of showing people my rig when they did not want to go out and get one after hearing the difference of a properly used BBE. It will add punch, clarity, presence and a cleaner more defined pleasing overall sound quality by correcting the basic physics design issue of speakers producing sound, some frequencies reach our ear at different times as a result of physics this unit corrects that time lag phase and just sounds better to the ear. I swear by them myself. I use an XLR unit on my main XLR Helix outs before they go into an XLR input power amp. I have two other instrument level units I use on some external pedals and units, like my Mel9 which makes it come alive as well as my Trio drum unit which punches the kick drum cleaner and the symbols have that high end clean slight tisssss. I also have a standby unit in case I want to use the 1/4" outs on my Helix before they go into my little Mackie mixer on the way to the FRFR rig. Anyway, I dig them and I can say I will never not have one in my rig. The bands general PA mix can be greatly improved using one on the house sound. Again using the unit in moderation at settings no more than 12:00 and in the right place in the sound chain. It's like anything else you can use it badly and not like the result, like someone adjusting an EQ in a bad way. The little guitar model is OK and has the circuit but it allows for misplacing of the unit and not an optimal usage thing. The rack stereo units are the best and really at $100 for the lower share knobs stereo unit it is the best $100 I have ever spent on my rig. Guitar Player awarded it one of the best inventions of recent times and also said it will be the best $100 you ever spend. The more pro XLR dual control model is the flagship and costs more but I love the puppy.

Great tips, I think this is going to really help expand everyone's sense of programming. Most I have read I agree w 100% so it is interesting we all seem to be headed in the same direction. I do wish some of the really talented preset builders would try and write up an advanced user guide. Sort of what that guy "meambobbo" did for the HD POD, he had great info on programming that puppy. Regarding headphones, despite I use high end ByerDynamic 770s (I think) I never get a really good sound of headphones, always a slight breakup even at lower volumes and adjusting to where the live sound is not good. Checking into impedance issues and how to properly match headphones to source it seems there is an audiophile suggestion that 8x the source impedance is a good match. The Helix runs a really low 12 ohm headphone impedance which you will never find that low on headphones. So mine should be a great match so I know that is not a source of the issue. Does anyone else think using headphones on a more dedicated source feed sounds better? I thnk maybe impedance issues are the reason why so many have terse differences in setting up preset tones. although to be honest I do not think you will ever really get the sort of sound live you do in cans from the mere issue of moving air and interactions with the speakers. I would be happy with no clipping myself. Anyway 2 cents. I've been looking at some wireless ones which have a xmit block using low impedance wondering if anyone has tried these as I would love to be free of that headphone cable. Seem like decent quality http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/RS165 Sennheiser RS 165's they do not offer the impedance on these but the lesser cheaper model is 64 ohms, which is not relevant so much to the Helix as the signal is being transmitted but one needs low impedance for fidelity. I found it helps considerably to farm out the headphone monitoring to a mixer or somethings else. I use a small Mackie mixer which I use to convert any of my external instrument unbalanced feeds to balanced TRS/XLR for my FRFR rig. I prefer running XLR outs and whenever I can as my power amp is XLR and I cannot say it sounds "better" to the point of a must do, but I do think according to specs that balanced XLR/TRS affords a cleaner more pure signal with no degrade.

I do hope others will offer some cool things they have learned. Pretty much the reason why I came to this forum to learn more about the programming of advanced users. We could keep all these things to ourselves but really is that helping anyone or helping the Helix get the rep it deserves?

One might ask why? Are you producing frequency spectrum outside the guitar range? A "full mix"? Are you suggesting the issue is running a full band mix through guitar cabs? No one has suggested nor would suggest that. No one is saying that you cannot run the signal into PA FRFR speakers for bigger halls or rooms just that if you have high end guitar speakers the Helix sounds very good through them as well as it sounds good in FRFR. I use both and the sound is amazingly rich and full. The guitar cab sounds more like a real amp which is why I use mine. Everyone should do what they like or prefer but suggesting FRFR sort of moot points all those trying 4CM things with their amp and speakers. If you have low end guitar speakers that color everything even a 4CM thing is not going to get anywhere near the best sound. But with the array or great high efficiency higher wattage guitar speakers these days the sound coming out of the Helix is very powerful and sounds as good or better than any amp I have ever used. I love my 15" FRFR EV rig but still dig the power and punch of that modified 4x12.